Religions > Atheism > Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History
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"Voice of Truth" |
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18 Oct 2004 02:18:54 PM |
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Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
Easter: The Best News in All the World!
SERMON: Easter: The Best News in All the World!
SCRIPTURE: 1 Cor. 15:1-11
SERIES: Christ is the Answer When the Church is in Crisis
SPEAKER: Michael P. Andrus
DATE: April 15, 2001
Drama ends with a skeptic saying regarding the resurrection, "thinkin'
people know better."
Sermon:
Well, is it really true that "thinkin' people know better?" Is the
resurrection of Jesus a fact or a fairy tale? I don't know any
question more crucial to answer than that. If it's a myth, albeit
well-intentioned, then we are flat wasting our time here this morning.
I don't have anything against mythology; I read some of those stories
to my grandchildren. But I'm not going to stake my life on them.
However, if the resurrection is a fact, there are some profound
implications for how we govern our lives!
I'm going to pour all my energies this morning into demonstrating to
you that thinking people have every reason to believe that the Easter
story is a true story. You don't have to commit intellectual suicide
to be a follower of Christ. But more than that--the Easter story,
precisely because it is a true story, can make an incredible
difference in your life! The risen Jesus wants to impart God's
resurrection power to each of us right where we need it most--right
where we live!
A signboard in front of Gethsemane Lutheran Church on Hampton Avenue
this week reads, "Opening Day for the Cardinals: April 9. Opening Day
for Christians: April 15." That's good. On that first Easter morning a
tomb in Jerusalem was opened by God--not to let Jesus out but to let
the disciples in to see that He was already gone. This Easter, April
15, 2001, could be opening day for you--the day on which your heart
and mind are opened to THE BEST NEWS IN ALL THE WORLD--the fact that
you can have a personal relationship with the living God through the
resurrected Christ.
By way of background for those of you who may be visiting, for the
past seven months we have been studying the New Testament book of
First Corinthians--a letter the Apostle Paul wrote to a church he had
established in the Greek city of Corinth several years earlier. We're
going to continue in that book this morning but let's skip ahead from
chapter 9 to 15, often referred to as "The Great Resurrection Chapter"
of the Bible.
Now, the primary concern of this chapter is the believer's
resurrection, but the writer knows he cannot adequately defend the
believer's resurrection unless he first establishes Christ's
resurrection, for His resurrection paved the way for ours. The writer,
the Apostle Paul, begins by pressing home to us the fact that the
resurrection of Jesus Christ is the heart and soul of Christianity. I
am reading from the NLT.
(1 Corinthians 15:1-11) Now let me remind you, dear brothers and
sisters, of the Good News I preached to you before. You welcomed it
then and still do now, for your faith is built on this wonderful
message. And it is this Good News that saves you if you firmly believe
it--unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in
the first place.
I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been
passed on to me--that Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures
said. He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day,
as the Scriptures said. He was seen by Peter and then by the twelve
apostles. After that, he was seen by more than five hundred of his
followers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have
died by now. Then he was seen by James and later by all the apostles.
Last of all, I saw him, too, long after the others, as though I had
been born at the wrong time. For I am the least of all the apostles,
and I am not worthy to be called an apostle after the way I persecuted
the church of God.
But whatever I am now, it is all because God poured out his special
favor on me--and not without results. For I have worked harder than
all the other apostles, yet it was not I but God who was working
through me by his grace. So it makes no difference whether I preach or
they preach. The important thing is that you believed what we preached
to you.
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the heart and soul of
Christianity. (1-3)
Our chapter opens with a simple assertion, "I want to remind you of
the gospel I preached to you." What is the Gospel? The term "Gospel"
simply means "good news," the good news that sinful people can get rid
of their guilt and find the power to live meaningful, purposeful lives
in the middle of a society that seems to be getting more godless with
each passing day. That's news worth sharing and it's news worth
believing. Why? Because when you embrace this Good News (i.e. make it
your foundation for faith and practice), you will never regret it. In
fact, you will be "saved" by it.
Maybe the term "saved" is unfamiliar to you. Or maybe you've only
heard it from the mouth of the church lady on Saturday Night Live. To
be "saved" really means "to be found and rescued." Obviously, to be
found and rescued, one first has to be lost, and the picture the Bible
paints of mankind is that we have indeed lost our way spiritually. We
are broken--emotionally, psychologically, and relationally--and like
Humpty Dumpty, we can't be put back together again, at least without
God's help. But God has offered the help we need in His Son, Jesus. He
came to find us, rescue us, and heal our broken lives.
If people are not saved by Jesus, they are not saved at all! I grant
that is a pretty exclusive statement, but I hope to convince you of it
this morning. If you are fuzzy on the significance of Easter or the
content of the Gospel, like the characters in our skit, then this
sermon is for you! It's for the rest of us, too--those who already
believe the Easter story, for we never know when someone may ask,
"Explain this Gospel stuff to me." We need to have a reason for the
hope that is in us.
What, then, is this Good News about Jesus? It's not just that he lived
in the first century, that he gave the world the greatest ethical
system known to man, and that he set an example of self-giving
love--though all those things are true. Here is what our Bible passage
offers as the Good News in a nutshell: "I passed on to you what was
most important and what had also been passed on to me--that Christ
died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said. He was buried, and he
was raised from the dead on the third day, as the Scriptures said."
That, friends, is the Gospel--nothing more and nothing less. If you
want to share Good News with someone, tell that person that Jesus died
for his or her sins, that He really died, but that He also actually
rose from the dead. If a person believes that with his whole heart, he
is a Christian, a member of God's eternal family; if he does not, he
is not a Christian, no matter what else he may believe or how he may
live. We don't have the right to make up our own Gospel, though many
have tried. This is the Good News.
Now let's look briefly at the three elements of Good News mentioned in
this Bible passage. First, "Christ died for our sins. That statement
focuses not just on the fact that He died, for no one questions that,
but on the purpose of His death. He didn't die accidentally; He didn't
die to set an example of self-giving love; He didn't die because He
was a criminal; He didn't even die because His enemies thought He was
a criminal; He died because His Father sent Him to pay the penalty for
our sins.
Whatever happened to sin? That's a question a leading psychiatrist,
Karl Meninger, asked. It's a concept one doesn't hear a lot in our
culture today. We hear about illnesses, we hear about addictions, we
hear about disorders, but we don't hear much about sin. A lot of
people think of sin, if they think of it at all, as simply doing what
we shouldn't do and not doing what we should do. We can all relate to
that simple definition, because all of us have a conscience that
bothers us when we violate it. But the Bible goes further in its
definition of sin, telling us that sin is anything contrary to the
character and commandments of God. You see, God is perfect and His
standard is perfection--all the time, every day. But most of us can't
even measure up to our own standards, let alone God's.
In the Ten Commandments we are told to honor our father and mother, to
avoid lying, stealing, adultery, and coveting. Those are rightly
viewed as sins. But sin goes beyond just the outward violation of
specific commandments. Sin also includes the thoughts and attitudes
and motives that cause people to break God's commandments. It includes
not just the act of stealing but also the greed that makes us want
something so much that we will consider stealing it. It includes not
just the act of adultery but also the lust in our hearts that causes
us to fantasize about adultery. When we define sin the way the Bible
defines sin, it's pretty clear that all of us are guilty. We are all
sinners. That doesn't mean we're all equally bad or that any of us is
as bad as we could be. But God doesn't measure on the curve--He
measures us against the standard of perfection, and by that standard
we all fail.
So what? Well, the Bible also tells us that the payback for sin is
death--i.e. the person who sins must die spiritually for his sins.
Just as physical death means separation of the soul from the body, so
spiritual death means separation of the person from God. Most
religions teach that the solution is some kind of a sacrifice. A man
who offends his wife may bring her a sacrifice of flowers or candy; so
people who offend their god must bring him a sacrifice to appease his
anger. In some cultures that sacrifice may be an animal sacrifice, in
others a sacrifice of good works, and in still others a sacrifice of
religious rites and rituals. The difference between Christianity and
every other religion is that biblical Christianity teaches that God
provided his own sacrifice. He sent His own Son, Jesus, to die in our
place, as our substitute. No other sacrifice is needed; no other
sacrifice is possible. Jesus died for our sins.
The second key fact in God's Good News is, "He was buried." At first
glance this seems to be a bit less significant. We can readily see how
important the death of Christ is, but why should His burial be
included in a summary of the Gospel? Probably it is included here so
as to leave no doubt as to the reality of His death, for the fact of
burial is the indisputable evidence that death has taken place. Ten
years ago my father had his second emergency by-pass surgery. The
surgeon told us he expired on the operating table. But we didn't bury
him, and I'm glad we didn't because he's doing just fine today at age
85! He may have died clinically but he wasn't really dead. Jesus,
however, was really dead, to the point that he was buried and stayed
buried for three days.
This brings us to the third element, the Resurrection. "He was raised
on the third day." Jesus did not just revive from a coma in the cool
darkness of a tomb. He was brought back from death to life by the
power of God, and he spent the next 50 days living among His disciples
before He ascended to heaven.
The resurrection is an absolutely essential part of the Gospel. If
there had been no resurrection, the death of Christ would not have
saved one person, for as Romans 4:25 puts it, "He was handed over to
die because of our sins, and he was raised from the dead to make us
right with God." One writer has well stated,
Just as the heart pumps life-giving blood to every part of the body,
so the truth of the resurrection gives life to every other area of
gospel truth. The resurrection is the pivot on which all of
Christianity turns and without which none of the other truths would
much matter. Without the resurrection, Christianity would be so much
wishful thinking, taking its place alongside all other human
philosophy and religious speculation.
Without the resurrection, salvation could not have been provided, and
without belief in the resurrection salvation cannot be experienced.
Romans 10:9,10 says, "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is
Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you
will be saved." I believe it is impossible to be a Christian in any
biblical sense and reject the bodily resurrection of Jesus.
The writer not only tells us what the Gospel is; he also tells us
where it came from. The Apostle Paul protests that he didn't originate
the Gospel; rather he received it from God and then delivered it to
us. It is God's Gospel, not ours. No human being would have ever
devised a plan of salvation like this one, for human religion always
tries to obtain salvation the old-fashioned way--to earn it. But the
good news of the Christian Gospel is that salvation is a free
gift--costly to Christ but free to us.
The final question Paul answers in his introduction is, "How important
is the Gospel?" He asserts that it is the most important thing he ever
taught. Consider his statement, "I passed on to you what was most
important." Of all the great truths he mentions in the dozen NT
letters he wrote, Paul says this truth of the Gospel is the most
important. Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose again. One
can know everything else about theology and doctrine, but if he
doesn't have this straight, he's just another lost sinner.
It is one thing, however, to state that the resurrection is an
essential part of the Gospel; it is another to prove it. Some people
are satisfied with a mere affirmation of religious truth, but others
want to know why! "Why should I believe that such a unique event ever
took place?" Interestingly, God does not demand that we believe this
most phenomenal of all miracles just because it is an article of the
Christian faith. He has provided us with sound evidence of its
historic reality. In fact, I think a good case could be made for the
assertion that . . .
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the best documented events
of history. (3-11)
Lee Strobel, a former atheist and legal reporter for the Chicago
Tribune, said this is his excellent book, The Case for Christ:
The evidence for the . . . resurrection . . . of Jesus didn't develop
gradually over the years as mythology distorted memories of His life.
Rather . . .the Resurrection was "the central proclamation of the
early church from the very beginning." The ancient creed from 1
Corinthians15 mentions specific individuals who encountered the risen
Christ, and Paul even challenged first-century doubters to talk with
these individuals personally to determine the truth of the matter for
themselves. The New Testament book of Acts is littered with extremely
early affirmations of Jesus' resurrection, while the gospels describe
numerous encounters in detail. Concluded British theologian Michael
Green, "The appearances of Jesus are as well authenticated as anything
in antiquity . . . There can be no rational doubt that they occurred."
By the way, for those of you who may still be skeptical after hearing
this sermon but are willing to maintain an open mind, I highly
recommend this book. We've accumulated some copies of it this morning
and are willing to give you one. Just come up and get it here on the
front seat after the service. If we run out, it's available at Borders
or B. Dalton's for about ten bucks.
The evidence for the resurrection is presented in two parts.
The resurrection was predicted in the Old Testament Scriptures
centuries before it happened. (3,4) In verse 3 and again in verse 4
the phrase "according to the Scriptures" is attached to the elements
of the Gospel. It would have been significant enough if the Son of God
had died for our sins and been raised from the dead as a surprise. But
to have these events predicted in the OT Scriptures centuries before
they happened, and then to have them occur exactly as predicted, puts
the death and resurrection of Jesus in a class by itself.
There are many passages to which I might turn to prove this claim. You
may be familiar with the story of the two disciples on the road to
Emmaus who were talking to the resurrected Christ, though unaware of
who He was. Jesus spoke to them in Luke 24:
"You are such foolish people! You find it so hard to believe all that
the prophets wrote in the Scriptures. Wasn't it clearly predicted by
the prophets that the Messiah would have to suffer all these things
before entering his time of glory?" Then Jesus quoted passages from
the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining what all the
Scriptures said about himself." (Luke 24:25-27).
Wouldn't it have been great to be in on that dialogue? Then a few
weeks later on the Day of Pentecost Peter quoted from Psalm 16 and
observed that David, the author of the Psalm, " was looking into the
future and predicting the Messiah's resurrection. He was saying that
the Messiah would not be left among the dead and that his body would
not rot in the gave." (Acts 2:25-31). Later the Apostle Paul was on
trial for his faith and proclaimed, "I teach nothing except what the
prophets and Moses said would happen--that the Messiah would suffer
and be the first to rise from the dead as a light to Jews and Gentiles
alike." (Acts 26:22-23).
Over and over again, either directly or indirectly, literally or in
figures of speech, the OT foretold Jesus' death, burial, and
resurrection, and no Jew who believed the Scriptures should have been
surprised when it happened. Of course, a proof from the Scriptures is
only of value to the one who accepts the Bible as the Word of God.
Some of you may be thinking, "It's not fair to appeal to the Bible, a
religious book, as proof of the resurrection, because maybe its
authors perpetrated a fraud in order to gain more followers." But our
Bible passage moves quickly to another kind of proof which can't so
easily be dismissed by the skeptics.
The resurrection was attested to by many eyewitnesses. (5-8) In verses
5-8 we have recorded for us a number of post-resurrection appearances
of Christ, including Peter, the rest of the Twelve, and more than 500
believers at the same time. Jesus even appeared to Paul on the road to
the city of Damascus, some time after Jesus had ascended into Heaven.
Now we could take the time this morning to examine each of the
appearances mentioned here by going to the Four Gospels (Matthew,
Mark, Luke, and John), and reading the appropriate passages. We could,
in addition, point out other appearances which Paul does not mention.
But rather than focus on the details I would like us to consider the
significance and scope of these appearances taken together as a whole.
As the Apostle Paul is writing the book of 1 Corinthians a little more
than 20 years after the death and resurrection of Christ, Peter is
still alive and is well-known in the Church. Nearly all of the Twelve
Apostles are still alive and preaching publicly. Of the 500 believers
who saw Jesus on the one particular occasion mentioned in verse 6, the
majority are still alive. And James, mentioned in verse 7 is the
current head of the church in Jerusalem. If the Corinthians who
receive this letter are skeptical of Paul's claim, they can take a
boat and a brief overland trip to Jerusalem and check it out with the
eyewitnesses themselves.
Should someone suggest the disciples may have all agreed to tell the
same story or may have undergone mass brainwashing, I would suggest
that people in the first century were no less intelligent or
civilized, and no more gullible than we are today. Just because there
was no CNN back in the first century does not mean that people were
more easily fooled or misled. Suppose someone today were to issue a
new biography of J.F.K., who died less than 40 years ago, full of
anecdotes which were quite untrue. Suppose it claimed great
achievements for him which he never accomplished, and on top of it all
claimed that after his death in Dallas he came back to life and spent
40 days in Hyannisport before going on to his reward. Such nonsense
would be contradicted at once and there is no chance that it would be
believed, except perhaps in Martha's Vineyard and maybe at the New
York Times.
Sure, it's possible to fool some people for a while. There are those
who will follow a cult leader like Jim Jones or David Koresh and
ignorantly accept his claims to divine authority, for a while. There
are religions that make some pretty fantastic claims for their
founders and urge their followers to look only through the eyes of
faith. But the resurrected Christ was seen not just by eyes of faith
but by literal, physical eyes, and many credible witnesses touched
Him, talked to Him, and even ate with Him. If the resurrection was a
hoax, I submit to you it could have been easily debunked.
Well, if the resurrection is easily attested because of the large
numbers of witnesses who saw Christ alive after He had been dead and
buried, why didn't everyone believe it? Why were the early Christians
always a minority, even in Jerusalem where these events occurred? And
why are Christians still a minority today? Well, part of the answer
lies in the fact that many people have a philosophical bias against
the supernatural. They might call it a bias in favor of science, I'm
sure, but I argue that it's really philosophical. In fact, to show the
extent to which some will go to deny the supernatural, I want to share
a story from my own experience.
While I was doing graduate work in philosophy at Southern Methodist
University. I was privileged to attend an address by Dr. Anthony Flew,
one of the leading philosophers of the 20th century. Dr. Flew chose to
speak on David Hume's famous 18th century attack on miracles, claiming
that Hume's essay was a brilliant piece of work which hasn't received
the attention it deserves. If it had, it would have dispensed with
belief in miracles once and for all. He reminded us that Hume
demonstrated that the eyewitnesses for the NT miracles, particularly
Jesus' disciples, were neither of sufficient number, nor of sufficient
intelligence, nor of sufficiently good character, etc. to be believed.
One would have to be familiar with Hume and Flew to appreciate the
thoroughness of his attempt to discredit the biblical miracles.
At the end of his address there was a question-and-answer time. After
a number of questions had been handled, a young man stood up in the
back of the room of 300 or so and said (I wrote the question down
while the dialogue was going on),
"Dr. Flew, suppose someone in this room this afternoon began to
levitate and everyone here saw it. Further suppose that
representatives from the medical school and the psychology and science
departments were brought in to examine the person and verified that he
had indeed levitated. Still further suppose that the entire account
was written up in a leading journal and then forgotten. Finally,
suppose that you were living some 30 years in the future and were
doing research in the Library of Congress and came across this journal
article. What would you say?"
Dr. Flew responded without a moment's hesitation (I remember it
clearly), "I'd say it never happened." "But sir," the student
continued, "what sort of evidence would you need to accept the fact
that it happened?" His response? "People don't levitate." Obviously he
had already made up his mind that miracles don't happen; therefore, no
amount of proof could sway him.
My point is this: Some people don't reject the Gospel, and
particularly the Resurrection, because it lacks credibility or
historical verification; they reject it because they simply refuse to
believe the evidence, no matter how logical or convincing it is.
But there's another reason why some people reject clear evidence of
the resurrection that goes directly to the nature of man. The
resurrection proves that Jesus is Lord, and as Lord He demands that
all men repent of their sin and acknowledge His sovereignty. I believe
many reject the resurrection because of the moral demands it places
upon the person who accepts it.
Let's face it, friends, if Jesus really rose from the dead and
ascended into heaven, if he really is the Son of God as He claimed,
then I can't just live my life any way I want in blissful ignorance.
If Jesus is alive and coming again as He promised, then some day there
will be a payday, a day of reckoning for all of us. And some of us are
going to have a lot of explaining to do.
We come, then, to our final point . . .
The resurrection is proven by changed lives. (9-11)
The last eyewitness of the Resurrected Christ mentioned in verse 8 was
Paul himself. He saw the living Christ on the Damascus Road and that
experience changed him completely. He never forgot it and never got
over it.
It leads to a recognition of sin (9). In verse 9 he says, "For I am
the least of all the apostles and I am not worthy to be called an
apostle after the way I persecuted the church of God." All of the
others to whom Christ appeared, except perhaps James, were believers,
whereas Paul was a violent, hateful unbeliever. He chased down the
early Christians and sought to have them incarcerated or even killed.
As a result, he never ceased to be amazed that, of all people, Christ
would have appeared to him. I don't think a dream about Jesus could
ever have produced the kind of humble assessment of himself that Paul
came to. It took a direct encounter with the living Lord, the very
person He had rejected, to help him see his sorry state.
It results in a total transformation of character (10). He says in
verse 10, "But whatever I am now, it is all because God poured out his
special favor on me--and not without results." Paul may have been a
mess when Jesus found him, but Christ didn't leave him that way.
Because of God's mercy and grace, he became a great missionary and
preacher and theologian. It is only the one who has experienced the
power of the resurrection in his life who can experience such a
thorough transformation in character and then give the credit to God.
Although there is plenty of Biblical and historical evidence for the
truth of the resurrection, including a whole bunch of eyewitness
testimony, I believe the best evidence for the resurrection is the
transformed lives of Jesus' disciples. And changed lives are still the
best evidence of the resurrection today. Someone has put it this way
regarding the original Twelve apostles:
On the day of the crucifixion they were filled with sadness; on the
first day of the week with gladness. At the crucifixion they were
hopeless; on the first day of the week their hearts glowed with
certainty and hope. When the message of the resurrection first came
they were incredulous and hard to be convinced, but once they became
assured they never doubted again. What could account for the
astonishing change in these men in so short a time? The mere removal
of the body from the grave could never have transformed their spirits
and character. Three days are not enough for a legend to spring up
which would so affect them. Time is needed for a process of legendary
growth. It is a psychological fact that demands a full explanation.
Think of the character of these witnesses--men and women who gave the
world the highest ethical teaching it has ever known, and who, even on
the testimony of their enemies, lived it out in their lives. Think of
the psychological absurdity of a little band of defeated cowards
hiding in an upper room one day and a few days later instantly
transformed into a band that no persecution could silence--and then
attempting to attribute this dramatic change to nothing more
convincing than a miserable fabrication they were trying to foist upon
the world. That simply doesn't make sense.
History also tells us that many of these same eyewitnesses, when later
given the choice by Jewish and Roman persecutors between death and
denying the resurrected Christ, chose martyrdom without hesitation. It
is true some patriots, some zealots, and even some terrorists are
willing to die for what they believe in, but I ask you, what fool
would willingly die for a lie he knew was a lie?
It produces a complete change in direction, a redirection of one's
entire life. (10b, 11). Paul continues, "For I have worked harder than
all the other apostles, yet it was not I but God who was working
through me by his grace." What could make a person totally redirect
his energies from trying to stamp out a small band of Christians to
becoming their most devoted disciple and leading spokesman? I can
think of nothing that could account for it other than the fact that he
actually saw alive the One he knew was dead.
John G. Paton, a 19th century missionary to the South Seas, met
opposition when he left home in Scotland to preach to the
cannibalistic peoples of the New Hebrides Islands. A well-meaning
church member moaned to him, "The cannibals, the Cannibals! You will
be eaten by the cannibals!" He is reported to have replied, without
hesitation, "I confess to you that if I can live and die serving my
Lord Jesus Christ, it makes no difference to me whether I am eaten by
cannibals or by worms; for in that Great Day of Resurrection my body
will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer!"
If Christ really did rise from the dead, and therefore proved that He
is Lord, then we need to recognize that each of us has sinned (fallen
way short of God's perfection), experience real transformation in our
character, and redirect our whole lives to the cause of Christ.
Frankly, many Christians today are lukewarm or half-hearted,
disinterested in any commitment that challenges our convenience, our
comfort, or our pursuit of health, wealth, and happiness. But if we
really believed in the resurrection, we couldn't help but be on fire
for Jesus!
We desperately need a new glimpse of the resurrected Christ and a new
understanding of what His Lordship is all about. The facts are clear.
The evidence is overwhelming. The only questions that remain are
these: "Is He Lord of your life? Is His resurrection power at work in
your life?" "When you walk out of here this morning, will you leave
genuinely celebrating, despite the problems you are facing, because
you know the resurrected Christ will provide victory over all that
stuff?
Conclusion: I would like to return to verse 2, where Paul asserts
regarding the Good News of the resurrected Christ, "by this Gospel you
are saved." He recognizes that there are some who think they have
received the Gospel, but who really haven't. So he adds the condition,
"if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have
believed in vain."
Believing the Gospel is not just a matter of having prayed to receive
Christ at some point in one's life, or having raised one's hand in a
church service, or having walked an aisle at a Billy Graham Crusade.
Believing the Gospel is a matter of holding fast to the truth that
Jesus died for our sins, was buried and rose again. Some have believed
the facts but have never allowed the facts to penetrate their hearts
so as to produce a change of life.
Opening day at the ballpark was last Monday, and it was hard to get a
ticket. What if you had bought some tickets from a scalper at a
bargain price and thought, "Boy, am I smart? Nobody can get tickets
and here I get to go for half price." Then you get there and the
attendant says, "Sorry buddy, this ticket is counterfeit. It's bogus!"
Do you know anyone who is holding a bogus ticket for the next world?
Are you? What about the bogus ticket of baptism, of church membership,
of good works, of confirmation or other church rituals, of financial
contributions?
Not that any of these things are bad in themselves. In fact, they are
all good things, but they aren't the genuine ticket to anything.
What are you counting on as you sit here today as your ticket to a
right relationship with God? He loves you. In fact, as Max Lucado puts
it, "God is crazy about you." So crazy about you that he sent His one
and only Son to the cross rather than give up on you!
I urge you today, on this Easter Sunday, Opening Day 2001, to receive,
to embrace, and to hold fast to the Gospel, the Good News, THE BEST
NEWS IN ALL THE WORLD--that Jesus died for your sins, was buried, and
rose again from the dead, for you! Thinking people everywhere are
rejoicing in that truth today!
Because He lives we CAN face tomorrow.
Because He lives all fear IS gone.
Because WE KNOW HE HOLDS THE FUTURE
And life IS worth the living just because HE LIVES!!!
Father, I thank you for the resurrection of Jesus Christ--that it is
Good News from the past, power for the present and Hope for the
future. I pray you would work that truth deep into our minds, hearts
and lives today and forever!
He is risen!
Michael P. Andrus
First Evangelical Free Church of St. Louis County, Missouri
1375 Carman Rd.
Manchester, MO 63021
http://www.efree.org/sermons/1_corinthians/easter_the_best_news.htm
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| User: "Voice of Falsehood" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
18 Oct 2004 03:58:41 PM |
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***** off
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| User: "Lisbeth Andersson" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 06:06:13 AM |
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(Voice of Truth) broke a few copywright
laws by copying from a sermon by Michael P. Andrus in message
news:<816e1d8c.0410181118.4c50cd6b@posting.google.com>...
<.....>
and mind are opened to THE BEST NEWS IN ALL THE WORLD--the fact that
you can have a personal relationship with the living God through the
resurrected Christ.
<.....>
Why do they insist on calling this *news*? The story has been
around for a couple of thousands of years, surely by now they
should be able to come up with some other world that better
describes this story. We don't talk about the news that vikings
have attacked Lindisfarne or the news of the Spanish armada.
Don't the believers feel that it is time for a new description
of this easter story?
I know some of the words the atheists use to describe it, myth,
fairy tale, garbage and nonsense are among the more polite
descriptions.
Lisbeth
-------------
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
22 Oct 2004 06:15:29 AM |
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(Voice of Truth) wrote in message news:<816e1d8c.0410181118.4c50cd6b@posting.google.com>...
Easter: The Best News in All the World!
SERMON: Easter: The Best News in All the World!
SCRIPTURE: 1 Cor. 15:1-11
SERIES: Christ is the Answer When the Church is in Crisis
SPEAKER: Michael P. Andrus
DATE: April 15, 2001
Drama ends with a skeptic saying regarding the resurrection, "thinkin'
people know better."
Sermon:
Well, is it really true that "thinkin' people know better?" Is the
resurrection of Jesus a fact or a fairy tale? I don't know any
question more crucial to answer than that. If it's a myth, albeit
well-intentioned, then we are flat wasting our time here this morning.
I don't have anything against mythology; I read some of those stories
to my grandchildren. But I'm not going to stake my life on them.
However, if the resurrection is a fact, there are some profound
implications for how we govern our lives!
This is doubly wrong. First of all, there is no evidence that
such an event ever occurred. Second, even if it *did* occur, it
still doesn't mean it had been caused by the god described in the
Bible. Resurrecting the dead is would be a minor trick for any god, so
there is no need to attribute it to the Creator of the Cosmos. It could
even be attributed to a mischevious advanced alien race messing with
our minds.
RS
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
23 Oct 2004 09:56:22 AM |
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(Voice of Truth) wrote in message news:<816e1d8c.0410181118.4c50cd6b@posting.google.com>...
Easter: The Best News in All the World!
[...]
SERIES: Christ is the Answer When the Church is in Crisis
[...]
I am cheered to know that the "church is in crisis." Religion and
politics are remarkably similar. In either case only the insiders know
the truth, and in the case of religion the "insiders" are all long
dead. Certainly in either case a great deal of effort is expended in
attempting to manipulate public opinion.
Thus we have to look at the available evidence. In the case of
religion this means checking the plausibility of the claims. The
Christian religion claims that mankind was created from dirt as Adam
and Eve, who then sinned in the eyes of a vengeful god who demanded
blood sacrifices. For their sin the god cursed Adam and Eve and all
their progeny. Later however the god sent a part of itself as Christ
to die as a blood sacrifice to alleviate the original sin.
Science does not find much evidence to support this story. Logic does
not find much to support this story. The only support for this story
is the "feel good" factor that it engenders, as a sort of "Santa
Claus" story for adults. There is also an entire class of people in
the world whose entire livelihood depends on the promotion of this
story, and they do nothing else.
The suggestion that the divinity of Christ is the "best documented
event of history" is utterly ludicrous.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
24 Oct 2004 01:43:35 AM |
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On 23 Oct 2004 07:56:22 -0700, (Dave) wrote:
voiceoftruth227@hotmail.com (Voice of Truth) wrote in message news:<816e1d8c.0410181118.4c50cd6b@posting.google.com>...
Easter: The Best News in All the World!
[...]
SERIES: Christ is the Answer When the Church is in Crisis
[...]
I am cheered to know that the "church is in crisis." Religion and
politics are remarkably similar. In either case only the insiders know
the truth, and in the case of religion the "insiders" are all long
dead. Certainly in either case a great deal of effort is expended in
attempting to manipulate public opinion.
Thus we have to look at the available evidence. In the case of
religion this means checking the plausibility of the claims. The
Christian religion claims that mankind was created from dirt as Adam
and Eve, who then sinned in the eyes of a vengeful god who demanded
blood sacrifices. For their sin the god cursed Adam and Eve and all
their progeny. Later however the god sent a part of itself as Christ
to die as a blood sacrifice to alleviate the original sin.
Science does not find much evidence to support this story. Logic does
not find much to support this story. The only support for this story
is the "feel good" factor that it engenders, as a sort of "Santa
Claus" story for adults. There is also an entire class of people in
the world whose entire livelihood depends on the promotion of this
story, and they do nothing else.
They also do quite well.
The suggestion that the divinity of Christ is the "best documented
event of history" is utterly ludicrous.
The claim is a curious mixture of naiveté and cynical manipulation.
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| User: "Paul Hovnanian P.E." |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
20 Oct 2004 08:29:22 PM |
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Film at eleven?
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-- George Carlin
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| User: "BDK" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 01:16:26 PM |
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In article <816e1d8c.0410181118.4c50cd6b@posting.google.com>,
voiceoftruth227@hotmail.com says...
Easter: The Best News in All the World!
SERMON: Easter: The Best News in All the World!
SCRIPTURE: 1 Cor. 15:1-11
SERIES: Christ is the Answer When the Church is in Crisis
SPEAKER: Michael P. Andrus
DATE: April 15, 2001
Snipped endless paragraphs of nonsense and wishful thinking...
Why do you post this stuff? Do you enjoy getting flamed?
You seem to...
BDK
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| User: "Jim Sheffield" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 02:42:57 PM |
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"BDK" <kingratboyoboy@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bdf2403f6640d4989dcc@news.buckeye-express.com...
In article <816e1d8c.0410181118.4c50cd6b@posting.google.com>,
voiceoftruth227@hotmail.com says...
Easter: The Best News in All the World!
SERMON: Easter: The Best News in All the World!
SCRIPTURE: 1 Cor. 15:1-11
SERIES: Christ is the Answer When the Church is in Crisis
SPEAKER: Michael P. Andrus
DATE: April 15, 2001
Snipped endless paragraphs of nonsense and wishful thinking...
Your need to erase the other side says more about you than him.
Why do you post this stuff? Do you enjoy getting flamed?
You seem to...
BDK
That's right when you can't logically refute someone call them names.
You guys really miss the ability to persecute Christians. Isn't your
motto "so many Christians, so few lions".
I shall post my little challenge again. Happy writting!
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving actual
towns where you claim these events occured claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four books in
the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier this
time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found, but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Biblical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 10:28:00 PM |
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"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in
news:57edd.18680$Rf4.11569@fe2.texas.rr.com:
That's right when you can't logically refute someone call them names.
You guys really miss the ability to persecute Christians. Isn't your
motto "so many Christians, so few lions".
The poor boy is feeling persecuted.
--
Bush Lied.
Anybody But Bush.
Regime change begins at home.
.
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| User: "Philippic" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 05:04:23 PM |
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"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:57edd.18680$Rf4.11569@fe2.texas.rr.
You guys really miss the ability to persecute Christians.
'Persecute'? Not at all: one should be *gentle* with the sick, weak and
damaged.
But then again: since you people *are* sick, weak and damaged, there is the
need to *control the infection* -- to prevent you from spreading your
sickness to others still healthy, and to stop you weakening and damaging the
young and vulnerable.
Call it *hygiene*, sonny.
What's more: it's *working*: every year the churches are *emptier*...
Philippic
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| User: "Philippic" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 03:08:17 PM |
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"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:57edd.18680$Rf4.11569@fe2.texas.rr.com...
That's right when you can't logically refute someone call them names.
You guys really miss the ability to persecute Christians. Isn't your
motto "so many Christians, so few lions".
No. It's "so many Christians, so few brains"...
I shall post my little challenge again.
'Little' is indeed the word...
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving actual
towns where you claim these events occured
LOL!! The Babble's different 'gospels' describe irreconcilably different as
well as geographically implausible sequences of locations and events. Does a
sentence like "They just made this crap up" mean *nothing* to idiots like
you??
claiming he was born of a
virgin,
LOLOL!! But the word 'virgin' there is a *mistranslation*, you poor boob,
and *long known to be*...!!
I'm sorry, bud, but *you don't actually know enough about your own
'religion' to be worth debating it with*!
preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four books
in
the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier this
time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Look, sonny: no-one gives a ***** about your *fairy story*...
Philippic
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| User: "Jim Sheffield" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 03:57:35 PM |
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"Philippic" <slaughter@silxo1xgxr.com> wrote in message
news:Ruedd.675$G05.466@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:57edd.18680$Rf4.11569@fe2.texas.rr.com...
That's right when you can't logically refute someone call them names.
You guys really miss the ability to persecute Christians. Isn't your
motto "so many Christians, so few lions".
No. It's "so many Christians, so few brains"...
Ad hominem and Genetic fallacies. You did what I predicted.
I shall post my little challenge again.
'Little' is indeed the word...
All you can do is call names?
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving actual
towns where you claim these events occured
LOL!! The Babble's different 'gospels' describe irreconcilably different
as
well as geographically implausible sequences of locations and events. Does
a
sentence like "They just made this crap up" mean *nothing* to idiots like
you??
Harmonies have been written since ancient times. Tatian's circa 180 A,D.
is still extant
claiming he was born of a
virgin,
LOLOL!! But the word 'virgin' there is a *mistranslation*, you poor boob,
and *long known to be*...!!
Funny, The GREEK Orthodox Churches have no trouble
understanding what the word means. Also, the Aramaic churches.
I'm sorry, bud, but *you don't actually know enough about your own
'religion' to be worth debating it with*!
Since we never met, you are obviously ignorant of what I know.
preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books
in
the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier this
time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found, but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Biblical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
Look, sonny: no-one gives a ***** about your *fairy story*...
Philippic
Then why are you responding if you don't care?
Methinks, you can't refute me, so you are like the fox who said the
"grapes are sour".
Regards,
Jim
.
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 10:29:52 PM |
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"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in
news:3dfdd.18697$Rf4.9326@fe2.texas.rr.com:
LOLOL!! But the word 'virgin' there is a *mistranslation*, you poor
boob, and *long known to be*...!!
Funny, The GREEK Orthodox Churches have no trouble
understanding what the word means. Also, the Aramaic churches.
She was actually a "temple virgin", and probably wasn't.
--
Bush Lied.
Anybody But Bush.
Regime change begins at home.
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
20 Oct 2004 12:44:04 PM |
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Dave Lister wrote:
"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in
news:3dfdd.18697$Rf4.9326@fe2.texas.rr.com:
LOLOL!! But the word 'virgin' there is a *mistranslation*, you poor
boob, and *long known to be*...!!
Funny, The GREEK Orthodox Churches have no trouble
understanding what the word means. Also, the Aramaic churches.
She was actually a "temple virgin", and probably wasn't.
Oh come ON! It was a common (sorry Jeffrey, no figures) device in the
birth story of a hero.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause. -Chico Marx
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
20 Oct 2004 01:16:36 PM |
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Martin Edwards <bigm554@netscape.net> wrote in news:cl6854$l53$2
@hercules.btinternet.com:
Dave Lister wrote:
"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in
news:3dfdd.18697$Rf4.9326@fe2.texas.rr.com:
LOLOL!! But the word 'virgin' there is a *mistranslation*, you poor
boob, and *long known to be*...!!
Funny, The GREEK Orthodox Churches have no trouble
understanding what the word means. Also, the Aramaic churches.
She was actually a "temple virgin", and probably wasn't.
Oh come ON! It was a common (sorry Jeffrey, no figures) device in the
birth story of a hero.
Read Arthur C Clarke's story on this.....
--
Bush Lied.
Anybody But Bush.
Regime change begins at home.
.
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| User: "Philippic" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 04:39:51 PM |
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"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3dfdd.18697$Rf4.9326@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Then why are you responding if you don't care?
Why do you care about the reason?
Methinks, you can't refute me,
What?!? *Two centuries of biblical and historical scholarship* refutes you,
sonny: your text is a bunch of crap, and your literalist belief in what you
think it says is strictly *sub-literate*...
*Me* refute you? I have *no work to do here*!! LOL!!
so you are like the fox who said the
"grapes are sour".
No. I'm like the fox who always knew full well that "There ain't no fucking
grapes at all: you shitheads *made it all up*"...
Philippic
.
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| User: "Jim Sheffield" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 09:42:58 PM |
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"Philippic" <slaughter@silxo1xgxr.com> wrote in message news:<HQfdd.167$t31.21@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>...
"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3dfdd.18697$Rf4.9326@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Then why are you responding if you don't care?
Why do you care about the reason?
First, I care about your eternal soull and secong
You contradict yourself, you say you don't care
and then you argue. FYI the basic rule of logic
is A can't be A and not A at the same time.
Methinks, you can't refute me,
What?!? *Two centuries of biblical and historical scholarship* refutes you,
sonny: your text is a bunch of crap, and your literalist belief in what you
think it says is strictly *sub-literate*...
After 200 years, what John Burgon called "The German Scholarship"
has failed to refute the Gospel truth.
*Me* refute you? I have *no work to do here*!! LOL!!
I guess you are admiting you can't meet by challenge!
so you are like the fox who said the
"grapes are sour".
No. I'm like the fox who always knew full well that "There ain't no fucking
grapes at all: you shitheads *made it all up*"...
Philippic
As I said, you can't meet my chalenge. All you could do
was erase it. So I pasted, it again! Happy writing!!!
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving actual
towns where you claim these events occured claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four books in
the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier this
time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found, but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Biblical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44
.
|
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| User: "Philippic" |
|
| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
20 Oct 2004 12:42:49 PM |
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"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message >> >>
Then why are you responding if you don't care?
Why do you care about the reason?
First, I care about your eternal soull
BWAHAHAHAAAA...!!!
*Fantastic* demonstration of the age-old lunacy:
i) fantasize imaginary entities;
ii) fantasize that someone else is having trouble with theirs;
iii) fantasize that you somehow have the power to 'fix things' for them.
Each step on its own is bad enough; *all three steps*, and you should be
*certified*!
Amazing that people still do that sort of *****!!
LOL!!
Philippic
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
20 Oct 2004 12:42:42 PM |
|
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Jim Sheffield wrote:
"Philippic" <slaughter@silxo1xgxr.com> wrote in message news:<HQfdd.167$t31.21@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>...
"Jim Sheffield" <jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3dfdd.18697$Rf4.9326@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Then why are you responding if you don't care?
Why do you care about the reason?
First, I care about your eternal soull and secong
You contradict yourself, you say you don't care
and then you argue. FYI the basic rule of logic
is A can't be A and not A at the same time.
Methinks, you can't refute me,
What?!? *Two centuries of biblical and historical scholarship* refutes you,
sonny: your text is a bunch of crap, and your literalist belief in what you
think it says is strictly *sub-literate*...
After 200 years, what John Burgon called "The German Scholarship"
has failed to refute the Gospel truth.
*Me* refute you? I have *no work to do here*!! LOL!!
I guess you are admiting you can't meet by challenge!
so you are like the fox who said the
"grapes are sour".
No. I'm like the fox who always knew full well that "There ain't no fucking
grapes at all: you shitheads *made it all up*"...
Philippic
As I said, you can't meet my chalenge. All you could do
was erase it. So I pasted, it again! Happy writing!!!
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving actual
towns where you claim these events occured claiming he was born of a
virgin,........The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Jim
Come now, only two mention the birth, and one is agreed, by nearly
everyone I think (sorry Jeffrey, no list of names), to be dependent on
the other, whichever way round they go. In fact many scholars contend
that three are dependent on one (eg Powell: I am not going to look up a
Gibsonian booklist). It does not have to be a hoax to be untrue. There
have been several alternative explanations lying around for over a
century as to how subjective experiences gradually came to be accepted
as fact. I thought I saw Jerry Garcia in a crowd in Birmingham the
other day, and do you know what? When I got down the pub one of my
mates said exactly the same thing had happened to him.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause. -Chico Marx
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
19 Oct 2004 10:35:53 PM |
|
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On 19 Oct 2004, Jim Sheffield dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
First, I care about your eternal soull
What's a soul?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Vote for John Kerry
God belongs in church, not the White House.
.
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| User: "Paul Hovnanian P.E." |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
20 Oct 2004 08:27:57 PM |
|
|
Jim Sheffield wrote:
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving actual
towns where you claim these events occured claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four books in
the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier this
time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Can't prove its a hoax, can't prove it isn't. That's what FAITH is all
about. If you need proof, you don't have faith. On the other hand, if
you believe that a person can be convinced by any arguments posted here
or anywhere else that God exists, you also don't have faith. Anyone who
attempts to argue for or prove the existance of God has turned his or
her back on the power of faith and doubts the power of God.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
A physicist is an atom's way of knowing about atoms.
-- George Wald
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
20 Oct 2004 09:39:06 PM |
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"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in
news:4177109D.C4D089ED@Hovnanian.com:
Can't prove its a hoax, can't prove it isn't. That's what FAITH is all
about. If you need proof, you don't have faith. On the other hand, if
you believe that a person can be convinced by any arguments posted
here or anywhere else that God exists, you also don't have faith.
Anyone who attempts to argue for or prove the existance of God has
turned his or her back on the power of faith and doubts the power of
God.
Come on, that is a complete Catch-22, and a nonsensical claim at that.
The reality is that there is NO external reference for God, and that humans
only interact with him internally and personally, should they chose to do
so. This cannot be proven to any other person, nor need it be. Religion is
crap.
--
Bush Lied.
Anybody But Bush.
Regime change begins at home.
.
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| User: "Jim Webster" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
21 Oct 2004 01:09:23 AM |
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"Dave Lister" <retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9588C7EB02CBAretsildivad33hotmail@68.6.19.6...
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in
news:4177109D.C4D089ED@Hovnanian.com:
The reality is that there is NO external reference for God, and that
humans
only interact with him internally and personally, should they chose to do
so. This cannot be proven to any other person, nor need it be. Religion is
crap.
no, it merely means that for you it is crap, for someone who can interact
with God internally and personally it isn't
Jim Webster
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
21 Oct 2004 12:22:52 PM |
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"Jim Webster" <Jim@zerospam.moik.net> wrote in
news:cl7kgs$1a3$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
"Dave Lister" <retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9588C7EB02CBAretsildivad33hotmail@68.6.19.6...
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in
news:4177109D.C4D089ED@Hovnanian.com:
The reality is that there is NO external reference for God, and
that
humans
only interact with him internally and personally, should they chose
to do so. This cannot be proven to any other person, nor need it be.
Religion is crap.
no, it merely means that for you it is crap, for someone who can
interact with God internally and personally it isn't
Someone interacting wth God internally and personally doesn't need
religious crap.
--
Bush Lied.
Anybody But Bush.
Regime change begins at home.
.
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| User: "Jim Webster" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
22 Oct 2004 01:09:26 AM |
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"Dave Lister" <retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9589699D4FA81retsildivad33hotmail@68.6.19.6...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@zerospam.moik.net> wrote in
news:cl7kgs$1a3$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
"Dave Lister" <retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9588C7EB02CBAretsildivad33hotmail@68.6.19.6...
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in
news:4177109D.C4D089ED@Hovnanian.com:
The reality is that there is NO external reference for God, and
that
humans
only interact with him internally and personally, should they chose
to do so. This cannot be proven to any other person, nor need it be.
Religion is crap.
no, it merely means that for you it is crap, for someone who can
interact with God internally and personally it isn't
Someone interacting wth God internally and personally doesn't need
religious crap.
depends upon how you define religious crap. Some people call God religious
crap.
Jim Webster
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
22 Oct 2004 12:33:44 PM |
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Jim Webster wrote:
"Dave Lister" <retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9589699D4FA81retsildivad33hotmail@68.6.19.6...
"Jim Webster" <Jim@zerospam.moik.net> wrote in
news:cl7kgs$1a3$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
"Dave Lister" <retsildivad33@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9588C7EB02CBAretsildivad33hotmail@68.6.19.6...
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in
news:4177109D.C4D089ED@Hovnanian.com:
The reality is that there is NO external reference for God, and
that
humans
only interact with him internally and personally, should they chose
to do so. This cannot be proven to any other person, nor need it be.
Religion is crap.
no, it merely means that for you it is crap, for someone who can
interact with God internally and personally it isn't
Someone interacting wth God internally and personally doesn't need
religious crap.
depends upon how you define religious crap. Some people call God religious
crap.
Jim Webster
Some call it Mitra, Varuna, others again the heavenly bird Garutman.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause. -Chico Marx
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "Jim Webster" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
22 Oct 2004 02:43:57 PM |
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"Martin Edwards" <bigm554@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:clbg9n$cgc$3@sparta.btinternet.com...
Someone interacting wth God internally and personally doesn't need
religious crap.
depends upon how you define religious crap. Some people call God
religious
crap.
Jim Webster
Some call it Mitra, Varuna, others again the heavenly bird Garutman.
and?
Jim Webster
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause. -Chico Marx
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
23 Oct 2004 02:31:08 AM |
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Jim Webster wrote:
"Martin Edwards" <bigm554@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:clbg9n$cgc$3@sparta.btinternet.com...
Someone interacting wth God internally and personally doesn't need
religious crap.
depends upon how you define religious crap. Some people call God
religious
crap.
Jim Webster
Some call it Mitra, Varuna, others again the heavenly bird Garutman.
and?
Jim Webster
I was fuguing.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause. -Chico Marx
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "Jim Webster" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
23 Oct 2004 02:34:41 AM |
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"Martin Edwards" <bigm554@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cld1bs$kp9$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
I was fuguing.
ivomectins are pretty effective in those cases :-)))
Jim Webster
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: Resurrection Of Jesus: The Best Documented Event Of History |
22 Oct 2004 12:32:45 PM |
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Dave Lister wrote:
Someone interacting wth God internally and personally doesn't need
religious crap.
But they may need treatment.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause. -Chico Marx
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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