Robert A. Heinlein pornography

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Fredric L. Rice"
Date:	15 Jun 2005 05:26:40 AM
Object:	Robert A. Heinlein pornography

"To sail beyond the sunset" by Robert A. Heinlein. I just read
it and have to report that it's badly written pornography where
every female from the age of 12 years on up is virtually dripping
sperm, a percentage or two donated by her own father.
Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever read a science fiction
story that turned out to be soft porn ever before. And this is
_bad_ science fiction. (I don't read porn so I can't suggest
whether it's good or bad porn, but I suspect it's also bad porn
since it's all written so badly.)
It leaves me wondering whether Heinlein actually didn't write it
or whether he was dying when he did.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://PerkinsTragedy.org http://www.rightard.org/
End Republican race hatred: http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.

User: "Clayton...Less Calories, More Filling"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	16 Jun 2005 12:21:46 AM

"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:11avfldrpkc2e9d@corp.supernews.com...

"To sail beyond the sunset" by Robert A. Heinlein. I just read
it and have to report that it's badly written pornography where
every female from the age of 12 years on up is virtually dripping
sperm, a percentage or two donated by her own father.

Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever read a science fiction
story that turned out to be soft porn ever before. And this is
_bad_ science fiction. (I don't read porn so I can't suggest
whether it's good or bad porn, but I suspect it's also bad porn
since it's all written so badly.)

It leaves me wondering whether Heinlein actually didn't write it
or whether he was dying when he did.

You don't say...how shocking! *quickly writes down name on "to get" list*
I'm sure I will be thoroughly offended! *makes sure box of tissues is
handy*
.

User: "D-word"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	17 Jun 2005 07:38:43 PM

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

"To sail beyond the sunset" by Robert A. Heinlein. I just read
it and have to report that it's badly written pornography ....

Don't lie, you don't read books.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	19 Jun 2005 09:46:36 PM

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

Try reading the Bible. We understand that it's still the all-time
bestseller.
Veni, Creator Spiritus:
Creator Spirit, come and visit the souls that are Yours; fill with
heavenly grace the hearts that You created.
You are called by the names of Paraclete, gift of God most high, spring
of life, fire, love and the soul's anointing.
Seven gifts are yours to give. You are the finger of the Father's
right hand. You, the clear promise of the Father, give men's tongues
the grace of speech.
Kindle a light in our minds, pour love into our hearts and uphold with
Your unfailing strength the frailty of our human nature.
Drive our enemy far from us and give us always the gift of peace; so
may it be that, with Your grace ever guiding us in this way, we may
avoid all that is sinful.
Grant that through You we may know the Father and the Son, and may we
ever believe You to be the Spirit of both the Father and the Son.
Glory be to God the Father, and to the Son, who rose from the dead, and
to the Paraclete, for ever and ever. Amen.
.

User: "Fredric L. Rice"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	21 Jun 2005 02:19:44 AM

"vivapadrepio@aol.com" <vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote:

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

Try reading the Bible. We understand that it's still the all-time bestseller.

And responsible for the most murders of innocent human beings bar none.
Yes. I know.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://PerkinsTragedy.org http://www.rightard.org/
End Republican race hatred: http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.

User: "eyelessgame"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	17 Jun 2005 07:01:22 PM

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

Wow, you don't read much John Varley. Or Spider Robinson. Or John
Norman's Gor, or Piers Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant, or...
well, there's a lot of sex in SF. Sometimes it overwhelms the story,
often with enthusiasm and not a lot of point. (Read the first
sentence of John Varley's 'Steel Beach' to get an idea of what his sex
scenes are like.)
SF is still a predominantly young male audience (especially young males
who can't get any -- I know, I was one). The rest follows.
eyelessgame
.

User: "Fredric L. Rice"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	18 Jun 2005 06:23:51 PM

"eyelessgame" <aamp@oro.net> wrote:

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

Wow, you don't read much John Varley.

Titan, I've read many times -- dozens. There's sex in that but it's
not 12-year-old-daughter-on-daddy kind of pornography. }:-}

Or Spider Robinson. Or John Norman's Gor, or Piers
Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant, or...

Oh? I have the Bio series on my shelf but I've never read them.
They're in a boxed set but I've never read them.

SF is still a predominantly young male audience (especially young males
who can't get any -- I know, I was one). The rest follows.

}:-} Bet that's right. }:-}
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://PerkinsTragedy.org http://www.rightard.org/
End Republican race hatred: http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	19 Jun 2005 09:34:10 PM

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 18:23:51 GMT,

(Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:

"eyelessgame" <aamp@oro.net> wrote:

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

Wow, you don't read much John Varley.

Titan, I've read many times -- dozens. There's sex in that but it's
not 12-year-old-daughter-on-daddy kind of pornography. }:-}

Or Spider Robinson. Or John Norman's Gor, or Piers
Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant, or...

Oh? I have the Bio series on my shelf but I've never read them.
They're in a boxed set but I've never read them.

I've read one of that series, but I'll be damned if I can remember
anything about it.
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.

User: "atheist@home"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	18 Jun 2005 01:14:52 AM

On 17 Jun 2005 12:01:22 -0700, "eyelessgame" <aamp@oro.net> wrote:

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

Wow, you don't read much John Varley. Or Spider Robinson. Or John
Norman's Gor, or Piers Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant, or...

well, there's a lot of sex in SF. Sometimes it overwhelms the story,
often with enthusiasm and not a lot of point. (Read the first
sentence of John Varley's 'Steel Beach' to get an idea of what his sex
scenes are like.)

SF is still a predominantly young male audience (especially young males
who can't get any -- I know, I was one). The rest follows.

If they can't get it how do they read it?
atheist@home#1554

eyelessgame

User: "Michelle Malkin"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	18 Jun 2005 06:39:49 AM

"atheist@home" <atheist@home.com> wrote in message
news:j847b193dr87e0eqeekqek1qe6k9qitog8@4ax.com...

On 17 Jun 2005 12:01:22 -0700, "eyelessgame" <aamp@oro.net> wrote:

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

Wow, you don't read much John Varley. Or Spider Robinson. Or John
Norman's Gor, or Piers Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant, or...

well, there's a lot of sex in SF. Sometimes it overwhelms the story,
often with enthusiasm and not a lot of point. (Read the first
sentence of John Varley's 'Steel Beach' to get an idea of what his sex
scenes are like.)

SF is still a predominantly young male audience (especially young males
who can't get any -- I know, I was one). The rest follows.

Not anymore, it isn't. Nearly half or maybe more of the writers
of sf and fantasy are women. I'd say that the number of female
fen is about the same. You can't go by what you see at conventions.
Next time you are in a bookstore, check this out for yourself.
Media fandom brought tons of female fen into sf fandom at a time
when the number of female sf and fantasy writers was already
growing by leaps and bounds. F & sf is no longer written for
teenage boys (except, maybe, some sword and sorcery stuff),
and hasn't been for decades. My numbers may be a bit off, but I've
seen the steady increase in female fen over the last 35+ years.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
alt.atheism atheist/agnostic list name collector
BAAWA Knight & EAC Bible thumper thumper
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

If they can't get it how do they read it?

atheist@home#1554

eyelessgame

User: "eyelessgame"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	18 Jun 2005 08:14:28 PM

Michelle Malkin wrote:

"atheist@home" <atheist@home.com> wrote in message
news:j847b193dr87e0eqeekqek1qe6k9qitog8@4ax.com...

On 17 Jun 2005 12:01:22 -0700, "eyelessgame" <aamp@oro.net> wrote:

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

Wow, you don't read much John Varley. Or Spider Robinson. Or John
Norman's Gor, or Piers Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant, or...

well, there's a lot of sex in SF. Sometimes it overwhelms the story,
often with enthusiasm and not a lot of point. (Read the first
sentence of John Varley's 'Steel Beach' to get an idea of what his sex
scenes are like.)

SF is still a predominantly young male audience (especially young males
who can't get any -- I know, I was one). The rest follows.

Not anymore, it isn't. Nearly half or maybe more of the writers
of sf and fantasy are women. I'd say that the number of female
fen is about the same. You can't go by what you see at conventions.

Fair enough. For "is still" read "as of ~two decades ago, when Heinlein
was writing his final books, was still".
Given that Bujold is one of my favorite authors, and being that I'm a
fairly good friend of a brand new published female SF author (C.E.
Murphy, author of _Urban Shaman_), it must be that my brain was stuck
in the Reagan years when I wrote the above. What a horrifying thought.
What an even more horrifying thought that one can actually have
/nostalgia/ for the Reagan years...

growing by leaps and bounds. F & sf is no longer written for
teenage boys (except, maybe, some sword and sorcery stuff),
and hasn't been for decades. My numbers may be a bit off, but I've
seen the steady increase in female fen over the last 35+ years.

eyelessgame
.

User: "Michelle Malkin"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	19 Jun 2005 02:34:00 AM

"eyelessgame" <aamp@oro.net> wrote in message
news:1119125668.235848.106780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Michelle Malkin wrote:

"atheist@home" <atheist@home.com> wrote in message
news:j847b193dr87e0eqeekqek1qe6k9qitog8@4ax.com...

On 17 Jun 2005 12:01:22 -0700, "eyelessgame" <aamp@oro.net> wrote:

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

sex

scenes are like.)

SF is still a predominantly young male audience (especially young

males

who can't get any -- I know, I was one). The rest follows.

Not anymore, it isn't. Nearly half or maybe more of the writers
of sf and fantasy are women. I'd say that the number of female
fen is about the same. You can't go by what you see at conventions.

Fair enough. For "is still" read "as of ~two decades ago, when Heinlein
was writing his final books, was still".

Given that Bujold is one of my favorite authors, and being that I'm a
fairly good friend of a brand new published female SF author (C.E.
Murphy, author of _Urban Shaman_), it must be that my brain was stuck
in the Reagan years when I wrote the above. What a horrifying thought.
What an even more horrifying thought that one can actually have
/nostalgia/ for the Reagan years...

Bujold is one of my fvorites, too. I hope she hasn't given up on
Miles Vorkosigan. "The Hallowed Hunt" is next on my list to
read, as soon as I finish Mercedes Lackey's "Ill Met By Moonlight".
Some nice things did happen when Raygun was in office - just
nothing to do with him.

eyelessgame

User: "James Ascher"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 11:31:59 AM

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

"To sail beyond the sunset" by Robert A. Heinlein. I just read
it and have to report that it's badly written pornography where
every female from the age of 12 years on up is virtually dripping
sperm, a percentage or two donated by her own father.

Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever read a science fiction
story that turned out to be soft porn ever before. And this is
_bad_ science fiction. (I don't read porn so I can't suggest
whether it's good or bad porn, but I suspect it's also bad porn
since it's all written so badly.)

It leaves me wondering whether Heinlein actually didn't write it
or whether he was dying when he did.

Heinlein was often very sexual in his writings after he started writing
non-kids sci-fi. Check out any of his stories with the Lazarus character
who was variously male and female. The ship he tends to travel on is, of
all things, "The Gay Deceiver."
James
.

User: "Ordog"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 08:06:27 AM

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

"To sail beyond the sunset" by Robert A. Heinlein. I just read
it and have to report that it's badly written pornography where
every female from the age of 12 years on up is virtually dripping
sperm, a percentage or two donated by her own father.

Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever read a science fiction
story that turned out to be soft porn ever before. And this is
_bad_ science fiction. (I don't read porn so I can't suggest
whether it's good or bad porn, but I suspect it's also bad porn
since it's all written so badly.)

It leaves me wondering whether Heinlein actually didn't write it
or whether he was dying when he did.

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in the
appropriate NG.
Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!
This is just my very priviate opinion:
If you don't not like sex do not watch it, read about it or do it! Your
puffed up moral outrage is ridiculous! Throw away the book if you don't
like it. The choice is yours.
Ordog
"Beware of the man whose God is in the skies." Bernard Shaw
.

User: *"nemo"*
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 08:47:09 AM

In article <1118822787.729415.302560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

"To sail beyond the sunset" by Robert A. Heinlein. I just read
it and have to report that it's badly written pornography where
every female from the age of 12 years on up is virtually dripping
sperm, a percentage or two donated by her own father.

Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever read a science fiction
story that turned out to be soft porn ever before. And this is
_bad_ science fiction. (I don't read porn so I can't suggest
whether it's good or bad porn, but I suspect it's also bad porn
since it's all written so badly.)

It leaves me wondering whether Heinlein actually didn't write it
or whether he was dying when he did.

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in the
appropriate NG.
Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!

Oh I think this is on topic, at least a little. Heinlein was an atheist,
and Mr. Rice is a "regular" here.

This is just my very priviate opinion:
If you don't not like sex do not watch it, read about it or do it! Your
puffed up moral outrage is ridiculous! Throw away the book if you don't
like it. The choice is yours.

Uh... I don't think his outrage was "moral." I think he was disappointed
in the quality of the writing. You may note that he never said that the
book should be banned.
Chill

Ordog
"Beware of the man whose God is in the skies." Bernard Shaw

--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.

User: "John Baker"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 09:36:20 AM

On 15 Jun 2005 01:06:27 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com>
wrote:

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

"To sail beyond the sunset" by Robert A. Heinlein. I just read
it and have to report that it's badly written pornography where
every female from the age of 12 years on up is virtually dripping
sperm, a percentage or two donated by her own father.

Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever read a science fiction
story that turned out to be soft porn ever before. And this is
_bad_ science fiction. (I don't read porn so I can't suggest
whether it's good or bad porn, but I suspect it's also bad porn
since it's all written so badly.)

It leaves me wondering whether Heinlein actually didn't write it
or whether he was dying when he did.

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in the
appropriate NG.
Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!

This is just my very priviate opinion:
If you don't not like sex do not watch it, read about it or do it! Your
puffed up moral outrage is ridiculous! Throw away the book if you don't
like it. The choice is yours.

You're talking out of school, dude.

Ordog
"Beware of the man whose God is in the skies." Bernard Shaw

User: "Misleart Chuff"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 03:21:53 PM

"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:1ktva1h1vudab4i6j96gism0avoufqqmno@4ax.com...
: On 15 Jun 2005 01:06:27 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com>
: wrote:
[snip]
: >If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in
the
: >appropriate NG.
: >Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
: >In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!
: >
: >This is just my very priviate opinion:
: >If you don't not like sex do not watch it, read about it or do it!
Your
: >puffed up moral outrage is ridiculous! Throw away the book if you
don't
: >like it. The choice is yours.
:
: You're talking out of school, dude.
Is this your way of saying that he's being childish? Odd sentence,
definitely.
Reminds me of what an idiot pilot's last words were - "We're going to
hit some houses, dude!"
.

User: "Dubh Ghall"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	16 Jun 2005 03:13:46 PM

On 15 Jun 2005 01:06:27 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in the
appropriate NG.
Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!

Not exactly.
In a.a, we discuss things of interest to atheists; when we aint arguing with
fundies, that is.
This is obviously of interest to Fred, and Heinlein's work is of interest to
many of the atheists who post here.
If you do not like the subject, then filter the thread.
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling, Like any opinion stated here,
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan

Na bister 500,000
.

User: "Ordog"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	17 Jun 2005 02:11:01 AM

Dubh Ghall wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 01:06:27 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in the
appropriate NG.
Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!

Not exactly.

In a.a, we discuss things of interest to atheists; when we aint arguing with
fundies, that is.

This is obviously of interest to Fred, and Heinlein's work is of interest to
many of the atheists who post here.

If you do not like the subject, then filter the thread.

--
Puck Greenman
The spelling, Like any opinion stated here,
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.

Plonked by Rob Duncan

Na bister 500,000

Do not get me wrong. Heinlein the atheist SciFi author may be of some
interest to a.a members. The same goes for what is considered
pornographic and what is not in contemporary art and literature. The
problem is that this is a public forum.
Religious fundies reading this thread will trumpet: All atheists are
dirty pornographers! No morals! etc., etc., etc. This kind of label no
atheist should suffer I believe.
Religious groups are progressively getting the upper hand in stopping
public discussions they do not like. I would find it a sad development
if any open forum had to suffer censorship in the future due to fundy
protestations.
Ordog
"Beware of the man whose God is in the skies." Bernard Shaw
.

User: "atheist@home"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	17 Jun 2005 06:33:05 AM

On 16 Jun 2005 19:11:01 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com>
wrote:
<piggyback>

Dubh Ghall wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 01:06:27 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in the
appropriate NG.

Heh.
That reads like an order.
Who elected you commander in chief?

Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!

Who elected you spokeman for the group?

Not exactly.

In a.a, we discuss things of interest to atheists; when we aint arguing with
fundies, that is.

This is obviously of interest to Fred, and Heinlein's work is of interest to
many of the atheists who post here.

If you do not like the subject, then filter the thread.

--
Puck Greenman
The spelling, Like any opinion stated here,
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.

Plonked by Rob Duncan

Na bister 500,000

Which you do not own.

Religious fundies reading this thread will trumpet: All atheists are
dirty pornographers! No morals! etc., etc., etc. This kind of label no
atheist should suffer I believe.

So should we just post the kinds of things "fundies" will agree with
so that they don't feel badly toward us?
Maybe you and they can work up a list of appropriate subjects.

Religious groups are progressively getting the upper hand in stopping
public discussions they do not like.

There you go again.
Where is your proof?

I would find it a sad development
if any open forum had to suffer censorship in the future due to fundy
protestations.

Who exactly is going to censor us?
Nobody has tried to do it so far.
Except for you.
atheist@home#1554

Ordog
"Beware of the man whose God is in the skies." Bernard Shaw

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	19 Jun 2005 07:43:04 PM

On 16 Jun 2005 19:11:01 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com>
wrote:

Dubh Ghall wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 01:06:27 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in the
appropriate NG.
Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!

Fundies, one and all, are cordially invited to sit on their wooden
rough hewn crosses and rotate at a high rate of speed. I trust
they'll be blessed with a cornucopia of splinters.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.

User: "Michelle Malkin"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	20 Jun 2005 02:08:48 AM

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:2kibb1dgcoeik83n4s24a8ff27uiukugrk@4ax.com...

On 16 Jun 2005 19:11:01 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com>
wrote:

Dubh Ghall wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 01:06:27 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in

the

appropriate NG.
Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!

Not exactly.

In a.a, we discuss things of interest to atheists; when we aint arguing

with

fundies, that is.

This is obviously of interest to Fred, and Heinlein's work is of

interest to

many of the atheists who post here.

If you do not like the subject, then filter the thread.

Fundies, one and all, are cordially invited to sit on their wooden
rough hewn crosses and rotate at a high rate of speed. I trust
they'll be blessed with a cornucopia of splinters.

Is he saying that, as atheists, we should worry about what a bunch
of lying, immoral, hypocritical fundies think of us? Is he serious?
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
alt.atheism atheist/agnostic list name collector
BAAWA Knight & EAC Bible thumper thumper
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	21 Jun 2005 03:52:24 PM

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 22:08:48 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:2kibb1dgcoeik83n4s24a8ff27uiukugrk@4ax.com...

On 16 Jun 2005 19:11:01 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com>
wrote:

Dubh Ghall wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 01:06:27 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in

the

appropriate NG.
Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!

Not exactly.

In a.a, we discuss things of interest to atheists; when we aint arguing

with

fundies, that is.

This is obviously of interest to Fred, and Heinlein's work is of

interest to

many of the atheists who post here.

If you do not like the subject, then filter the thread.

Fundies, one and all, are cordially invited to sit on their wooden
rough hewn crosses and rotate at a high rate of speed. I trust
they'll be blessed with a cornucopia of splinters.

Is he saying that, as atheists, we should worry about what a bunch
of lying, immoral, hypocritical fundies think of us?

Yes.

Is he serious?

Seems to be.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.

User: "Dubh Ghall"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	17 Jun 2005 09:04:51 PM

On 16 Jun 2005 19:11:01 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

Dubh Ghall wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 01:06:27 -0700, "Ordog" <odbok001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

If you wish to make a literary critique of Heinlein's work do it in the
appropriate NG.
Moralising is appropriate for your favourite religious NGs.
In alt.atheism we preferentially discuss atheism!

Irrelevant.

Religious fundies reading this thread will trumpet: All atheists are
dirty pornographers! No morals! etc., etc., etc.

But they do that anyway: How will this make any difference.

This kind of label no
atheist should suffer I believe.

I aint suffering. If you are, then you are too sensitive, and should find
somewhere "nice" to play.

Religious groups are progressively getting the upper hand in stopping
public discussions they do not like. I would find it a sad development
if any open forum had to suffer censorship in the future due to fundy
protestations.

So you would have us Kow Tow to them?
Not a chance.
We will discuss what we choose, where we choose.
America aint the only fucking country in the world, with internet access, and
American fundies aint the only fucking people in the world.
However: If yours, is the standard attitude of the average American, shite
scared to speak, incase you offend the idiot fundies, then it is no fucking
wonder that the fundies are winning, and there is no room for you in these NGs.
Develop some backbone, or *****!
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling, Like any opinion stated here,
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan

Na bister 500,000
.

User: *"nemo"*
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 08:42:12 AM

In article <11avfldrpkc2e9d@corp.supernews.com>,

(Fredric L. Rice) wrote:

Yeah, Heinlein did that a fair amount in his later years. I thought it
was just sad.

Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever read a science fiction
story that turned out to be soft porn ever before. And this is
_bad_ science fiction. (I don't read porn so I can't suggest
whether it's good or bad porn, but I suspect it's also bad porn
since it's all written so badly.)

Well, there was this one book I read many years ago that was pretty
pornographic. "When Harley was One." I forget who wrote it. It was a
story about a super computer that became sentient. The sex scenes didn't
add much to the story, even for my 16-year-old mind.

It leaves me wondering whether Heinlein actually didn't write it
or whether he was dying when he did.

Oh I expect he did write it. There was a series of bad stories about
Lazarus Long, and this sounds like one of them. In his later years, he
went into a pretty bad decline. I think he convinved himself that he was
a god or something.
Do yourself a favor and stick with the stuff he wrote for the teen
market and the *good* stuff he wrote in the 50's and 60's.
"Starship Troopers"
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"
"Stranger in a Strange Land"
They all have sex in them to some extent, but at least it wasn't porn.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.

User: "Fredric L. Rice"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	17 Jun 2005 03:05:16 AM

*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:

In article <11avfldrpkc2e9d@corp.supernews.com>,
FRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:

Yeah, Heinlein did that a fair amount in his later years. I thought it
was just sad.

He also has a brother and sister going at it -- and then at the
very end of the book her father joins her family as one of her
husbands, and everybody fucked happilly ever after. It's like
Heinlein lost his creativity with age and filled otherwise blank
pages with porn.

It leaves me wondering whether Heinlein actually didn't write it
or whether he was dying when he did.

Or maybe he was being pressured by his publisher who had already
sent him a large advance on the book and just started whomping out
incest stories to fill the gaps. His _editor_ probably cut a third
of the book before publishing, I would expect.

Do yourself a favor and stick with the stuff he wrote for the teen
market and the *good* stuff he wrote in the 50's and 60's.
"Starship Troopers"
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"
"Stranger in a Strange Land"
They all have sex in them to some extent, but at least it wasn't porn.

I've read them all. This one I purchased for .25 cents at the library
after I decided I'd never seen it before. But I believe I've got all
the rest.
"Friday" starts out with Friday being raped but the rest of the book
I rather liked.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://PerkinsTragedy.org http://www.rightard.org/
End Republican race hatred: http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.

User: "Jon."
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	17 Jun 2005 05:52:23 PM

Fredric L. Rice wrote:
[snip]

"Friday" starts out with Friday being raped but the rest of the book
I rather liked.

I found it to be a decent James Bond type story, but with a female
protagonist and a sf setting. In other words, not a bad plot,
reasonably good action scenes and some tacked-on gratuitous sex scenes.
Jon.
aa #703
.

User: "Alex Hunsley"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 10:47:58 AM

*nemo* wrote:

In article <11avfldrpkc2e9d@corp.supernews.com>,
FRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:

Yeah, Heinlein did that a fair amount in his later years. I thought it
was just sad.

He actually had a brain problem which lead to a decline in his work for
a certain period of time:
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/conservativeview.html
"Several years ago a blocked artery led to oxygen starvation in part of
his brain, with a resulting decline in the quality of his work. The
blockage was finally repaired by a new technique in brain surgery.
.

User: "Fredric L. Rice"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	17 Jun 2005 03:05:17 AM

Alex Hunsley <lard@tardis.ed.ac.molar.uk> wrote:

*nemo* wrote:

Yeah, Heinlein did that a fair amount in his later years. I thought it
was just sad.

Ah, that could easily explain it. Thanks, I hadn't known but
the quality of the work made me wonder if maybe he just didn't
write it, it was so poor.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://PerkinsTragedy.org http://www.rightard.org/
End Republican race hatred: http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.

User: "magilla"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 01:07:45 PM

*nemo* wrote:
snip

David Gerrold. He also wrote the Tribble episode for Star Trek.
Chris
aa2186
.

User: "Christopher A. Lee"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 01:19:17 PM

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:42:12 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:

In article <11avfldrpkc2e9d@corp.supernews.com>,
FRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:

Yeah, Heinlein did that a fair amount in his later years. I thought it
was just sad.

He'd turned into a dirty old man. It was odd and as you say, sad.
.

User: "quibbler"
Title: Re: Robert A. Heinlein pornography	15 Jun 2005 05:34:49 PM

In article <11avfldrpkc2e9d@corp.supernews.com>,

says...

"To sail beyond the sunset" by Robert A. Heinlein. I just read
it and have to report that it's badly written pornography

Well, Heinlein was a masterful writer and a progressive thinker, but he
seemed a bit lacking in his thinking on many sexual matters. It wasn't
the only area where Heinlein dropped the ball. He was only human. I
too found his "love scenes" a bit noisome and amateurishly
thrown into otherwise decently written works of fiction.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.

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Robert A. Heinlein, rational atheist.
Persecution of Robert Oppenheimer
TOBS: "In the Beginning", comments by Robert Jastrow & Freeman Dyson
OT: Robert Kagan
OT: Robert Fisk
Robert J. Sternberg's Triarchic Theory of Intelligence
Declaration of Independence by Robert G. Ingersoll
OT: Robert Dallek

OT: Robert Kaplan
Robert FitzRoy
OT: Robert Zoellick
OT: Robert Kahn
Robert "Benedict" Novak throws kook outburst on CNN
Robert Beckford
Robert Moog. 1934-2005

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