| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Tockk" |
| Date: |
31 Oct 2006 08:42:36 PM |
| Object: |
Romans Chapter One, Homosexuality, and "Them" |
"john w @yoo.how>" <johnw<no> wrote
The chapter very clearly discusses men burning with lust for other
men, and women burning with lust for other women, and both committing
ugly acts with their own sex.
Yes, it definitely seems to say that. But quite aside from that, who
are
those "Them?"
Paul spends quite a bit of time talking about "them" and "they,"
YOu seem to be more into playing word games than you are seeking
Truth...
Well, I believe I've said what I intended to say. I think it's clear
that the "them" and the "they" are references to those who commit
homosexual acts.
--------
I'll be the first to admit that when it comes to theology, I'm not the
brightest light on the street. And no, I'm not trying to play games here,
just trying to figure out who, exactly, Paul is talking about with all these
references to "them" and "they."
It seems to me that when he starts out, he's not really talking about
Sodomites or homosexuals in particular, but about "all godless and wicked
men who suppress the truth by their wickedness" (verse 18), and then end up
"exchanging . . . God . . . for images . . . " (verse 23). Or as you put
it, ". . . all those who know the truth but who distort and twist it."
And it seems that it is these people who "God gave them over in the sinful
desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies
with one another." (Verse 24) Further comments of their actions & lusts
seem to apply to these folks.
So, my question, "Who were these 'Them'?" focuses on these particular
people.
A previous fellow suggested,
"According to scholars, it is referrign to apostate christians who reurned
to the pagan Roman State Cult of the worship of the Magna Mater, mother of
the Gods. It is largely a description of the temple practices on a feast
called Hilaria. Birds inhabited the temple, as did four footed beasts,
specifically domesticated lions or other large cats, as noted in the
passage."
I found this website on the Magna Mater
http://www.magnamaterproject.org/en/home.php and this about Hilaria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilaria but I'll be danged if I can make heads
or tails out of it (it's all Greek to me).
[ here it is]
RO 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all
the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their
wickedness,
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has
made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
[ NOTE: Here Paul has just condemned all those who know the truth
(it's in our heart), but who distort and twist it. ]
RO 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as
God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their
foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to
look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
[ Here, obvsiously, God is condemning the worship of idols/images of
man and beast ]
RO 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of
their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with
one another.
[ men degrade their bodies sexually with one another ]
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and
served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised.
Amen.
RO 1:26 Because of this, [ idol worship ] God gave them over to
shameful lusts.
[ here it comes ]
Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women
and were inflamed with lust for one another.
[ How much more clear can it be? ]
Men committed indecent acts with other men,
[ How much more clear can it be? ]
and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
RO 1:28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to
retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to
do what ought not to be done.
29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed
and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and
malice. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they
invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such
things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things
but also approve of those who practice them.
I hope that makes it a little ( a lot ) more clear for you.
j w
--------------
Well, I guess it helps. But it sorta looks like all this applies,
literally anyway, to whoever it was way back then who Paul said was
exchanging "truth for a lie."
I suppose, if that is the case, then the next question is, how is that
little tid-bit applicable to us modern folks?
Is what Paul wrote about ancient worshippers of images applicable to gay
people in San Francisco? Is his comments, like verses 29 - 30, meant to
mean that gay people in San Francisco " . . . have become filled with every
kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy,
murder, strife, deceit and
malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and
boastful; they
invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents" and, as he wrote in
verse 32, do they deserve death?
Again, I'm not trying to play or mince words here, just trying to figure all
this stuff out.
Thanks for any extra brain power you can shed on this . . .
--Tock
.
|
|
|
Related Articles |
Romans chapter one, Homosexuality, and "Them"
Romans Chapter One, Homosexuality, and "Them"
Romans Chapter One, Homosexuality, and "Them"
Why Should One Fight Against Homosexuality?
Re: One for Mr Jivers!!! - Animal Homosexuality
The Late, Great Immanuel Velikovsky, This One's for YOU!
OT- Seen this one in your email? -Not Even For a Beautiful Woman
MARRIAGE ONE MAN ONE WOMAN LIE ! !
| Re: NO ADOPTION! -- Homos lose another one in US Circuit Court.
Communist Party Helping Kerry (Commies know a Marxist when they see one)!! LIBERALS HATE AMERICA!!!!!!!
bush reduced to a one-trick pony . . miami
OT: One gulp, and Bush was gone
Has there ever been a WORSE American president than this one???
GOP Scum Tom Coburn Caught in a Lie (Is There Even One Single Honest NeoCon?)
Re: A Good One from Local News Channel 13, Asheville, This Morning
|
|
|
