Religions > Atheism > Ruling in the Scientology crooks vs. Spaink Free Speech case
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
19 Mar 2005 06:39:53 PM |
| Object: |
Ruling in the Scientology crooks vs. Spaink Free Speech case |
http://www.xs4all.nl/nieuws/bericht.php?id=625&taal=en
Today, Attorney-General Verkade delivered his opinion regarding the
Scientology case to the Dutch Supreme Court. In this case the Church
of Scientology accuses Karin Spaink of copyright infringement for
making parts of their course material available on her website. By
publishing this material, Spaink wants to inspire a public debate
about the nature of the cult.
According to his 82 page opinion, Verkade is of the opinion that
under certain circumstances freedom of speech, as protected by art.
10 EDHR, prevails over copyright. To quote Verkade: "Although
copyright resides under Article 1 of the First Protocol of EDHR and
can therefore be regarded as a human right, this does not exempt
copyright from being balanced against the right to freedom of
information."
The opinion also contains essential remarks about the right to
quote, especially with regard to the question of whether a work that
is quoted from has been legally published.
According to the Attorney-General it is not necessary for the author
of the work to have given his consent to publication. In this
particular case, making a work available to the public by a court
library, as happened with
the Fishman Affidavit, is sufficient for the work to have been
legally published. Hence it may be quoted from by third parties.
If Supreme Court follows the advice of its Attorney-General, the
ruling in appeal will stand. The Supreme Court will rule on July 8,
2005.
- K -
--
Oh, give me a home, where the psychotic roam...
- euclid on alt.suicide.holiday, Jan 8 2003
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
.
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: Ruling in the Scientology crooks vs. Spaink Free Speech case |
20 Mar 2005 01:02:51 AM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:
http://www.xs4all.nl/nieuws/bericht.php?id=625&taal=en
Today, Attorney-General Verkade delivered his opinion regarding the
Scientology case to the Dutch Supreme Court. In this case the Church
of Scientology accuses Karin Spaink of copyright infringement for
making parts of their course material available on her website. By
publishing this material, Spaink wants to inspire a public debate
about the nature of the cult.
According to his 82 page opinion, Verkade is of the opinion that
under certain circumstances freedom of speech, as protected by art.
10 EDHR, prevails over copyright. To quote Verkade: "Although
copyright resides under Article 1 of the First Protocol of EDHR and
can therefore be regarded as a human right, this does not exempt
copyright from being balanced against the right to freedom of
information."
The opinion also contains essential remarks about the right to
quote, especially with regard to the question of whether a work that
is quoted from has been legally published.
According to the Attorney-General it is not necessary for the author
of the work to have given his consent to publication. In this
particular case, making a work available to the public by a court
library, as happened with
the Fishman Affidavit, is sufficient for the work to have been
legally published. Hence it may be quoted from by third parties.
If Supreme Court follows the advice of its Attorney-General, the
ruling in appeal will stand. The Supreme Court will rule on July 8,
2005.
- K -
Hooray! Hooray! The good guys won!
And Scientology can no longer lie about what they REALLY teach.
Tell us about the space cooties again, Unca Elron!
Bwahahahahahah!
--
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Ruling in the Scientology crooks vs. Spaink Free Speech case |
20 Mar 2005 04:23:26 PM |
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wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
http://www.xs4all.nl/nieuws/bericht.php?id=625&taal=en
Hooray! Hooray! The good guys won!
And Scientology can no longer lie about what they REALLY teach.
Tell us about the space cooties again, Unca Elron!
Bwahahahahahah!
Freedom of speech manages to survive the Scientology criminal enterprise
once again. And the Diebold crooks were slapped down for abusing the
horrible DMCA laws, another legal ruling that can be used to punish the
Scientology crime syndicate.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
19 Mar 2005 07:13:55 PM |
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The well-known USENET KOOK Fredric L. Rice wrote:
nothing really interesting
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
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| User: "G W Shrub" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
19 Mar 2005 11:49:00 PM |
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<soli13taire@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1111259635.402535.300960@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
The well-known USENET KOOK Fredric L. Rice wrote:
nothing really interesting
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
Be careful. Some 7,000 year old Thetan may show up and kick your *****. Or L.
Ron may return from the secret underground cave and breathe on you. Old man
breath * 1,000 - shudder.
GW
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
20 Mar 2005 04:28:57 PM |
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"G W Shrub" <whois@my.house> wrote:
<soli13taire@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1111259635.402535.300960@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
The well-known USENET KOOK Fredric L. Rice wrote:
nothing really interesting
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
Be careful. Some 7,000 year old Thetan may show up and kick your *****. Or L.
Ron may return from the secret underground cave and breathe on you. Old man
breath * 1,000 - shudder.
Looks to me like his BTs are acting up. Scientology victims find them
to cause rectal itching, you know. }:-}
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
20 Mar 2005 04:27:52 PM |
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wrote:
The well-known USENET KOOK Fredric L. Rice wrote:
nothing really interesting
<rofl!> Yeah, organized crime getting slapped down in the courts by
a ruling that supports and defends freedom of speech is _so_ unimportant
and not interesting. <rofl!>
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
Request denied, net Nazi wannabe.
Don't like it? Get off my Internet, *****.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
21 Mar 2005 03:02:35 AM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:
nothing interesting, as usual
Freddie, you are such a cocksucking kook...
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
22 Mar 2005 03:13:50 AM |
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wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
nothing interesting, as usual
<rofl!> Yeah, organized crime getting slapped down in the courts by
a ruling that supports and defends freedom of speech is _so_ unimportant
and not interesting. <rofl!>
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
Request denied, net Nazi wannabe.
Don't like it? Get off my Internet, *****.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
.
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
22 Mar 2005 03:43:26 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 03:13:50 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) wrote:
soli13taire@juno.com wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
nothing interesting, as usual
<rofl!> Yeah, organized crime getting slapped down in the courts by
a ruling that supports and defends freedom of speech is _so_ unimportant
and not interesting. <rofl!>
Yeah, this silly clown doesn't want any true crime posted in
alt.true-crime. LOL!
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
Torn 40 failure: report to Ethics.
Request denied, net Nazi wannabe.
Don't like it? Get off my Internet, *****.
8/15/80 St petersburg Times
Tampa On Scientology
Editor: I was in Scientology for 12 years. Now I face being jailed
because I am talking to the public about the real story of
Scientology --- that it involves hypnosis, brainwashing, and
satanism. All because I am trying to prevent what happened to me
from happening to other people.
It may seem by my violations of the court order not to speak
publicly about Scientology that I have no respect for the law.
Such is not the case. In fact at one point I think I had more
faith in the law than most.
I came to Florida in 1981 to sue the Scientologists because I knew
that if the facts in my case were presented to a jury in a court
of law, the total outrageousness of Scientology's conduct would
become apparent. I trusted totally in that jury and in the legal
system to judge my case. Instead, I never did get my jury trial,
and in 1986 I made a settlement with the -Scientologists that I
regret.
So, it is true that in speaking out against Scientology that I am
violating a federal court order. I would like to make an analogy
which explains why I am doing this:
If you were on a beach, and you saw out at sea a boat with
hundreds of people on it, and the boat was sinking, you would
naturally want to run for help. But suppose there was a law
against running on the beach?
Any sane person would run for help, for the fact is that in some
few cases morality can override the law.
I believe the Scientologists to be psychological hostages and
under the influence of hypnosis, although they themselves do not
perceive this to be so, any more than I did while I was in
Scientology. I became aware of the fact only after I snapped outof
the hypnosis a year and a half after I left Scientology and
realized what had happened to me.
I believe that Scientology is an evil organization involving among
other things satanism, brainwashing, slave labor, and physical and
emotional abuse. I believe that the only moral thing for me to do
is to try to expose this situation to the public.
What can you do about Scientology? Very simple. Become informed.
Educate and protect your children. I urge you to learn the truth
about this cult.
Margery Wakefield
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Most of us lead lives of chaotic improvisation from day to day, bawling
for peace while plunging grimly into fresh disorders." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
23 Mar 2005 02:45:09 AM |
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desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot) wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 03:13:50 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
soli13taire@juno.com wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
nothing interesting, as usual
<rofl!> Yeah, organized crime getting slapped down in the courts by
a ruling that supports and defends freedom of speech is _so_ unimportant
and not interesting. <rofl!>
Yeah, this silly clown doesn't want any true crime posted in
alt.true-crime. LOL!
Bet he also thinks that alt.* forums have "topics." }:-}
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
Torn 40 failure: report to Ethics.
"Tone 40" I believe you mean. It only works if you use REALLY BIG
ALL CAPITAL LETTERS! And it only works on morons.
Request denied, net Nazi wannabe.
Don't like it? Get off my Internet, *****.
8/15/80 St petersburg Times
Tampa On Scientology
Editor: I was in Scientology for 12 years. Now I face being jailed
because I am talking to the public about the real story of
Scientology --- that it involves hypnosis, brainwashing, and
satanism. All because I am trying to prevent what happened to me
from happening to other people.
Margery Wakefield
I've always wondered why they've allowed her to live.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
21 Mar 2005 12:24:44 PM |
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I thought Scientology was true crime?
--
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
22 Mar 2005 03:14:29 AM |
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Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
It's organized crime but it's not structured in the same ways that the
more traditional organized crime syndicates are. There's one head
ringleader -- Lenske, is his name -- but it has a number of underlings
that may be part of the criminal enterprise for decades only to be
replaced by other kingpins who vie for power in mostly bloodless coups.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
.
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
22 Mar 2005 03:44:33 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 03:14:29 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) wrote:
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
Of course.
It's organized crime but it's not structured in the same ways that the
more traditional organized crime syndicates are. There's one head
ringleader -- Lenske, is his name -- but it has a number of underlings
that may be part of the criminal enterprise for decades only to be
replaced by other kingpins who vie for power in mostly bloodless coups.
Just ask the FBI!
FBI Expands Probe of alleged Sect Plot
THE CLEARWATER SUN
4.1.1984
By GEORGE-WAYNE SHELOR
The FBI, apparently acting on documents filed in U.S. District
Court this week, has expanded a federal investigation into an
alleged 1982 Scientology operation to entrap a Tampa federal
judge.
Initially, the federal probe was aimed at uncovering the
circumstances surrounding a purported Scientology plot to lure
U.S. District Judge, Ben Krentzman aboard a boat where drugs,
prostitutes and hidden cameras were to be used to compromise him.
However, the investigation was expanded after the Clearwater-based
sect filed documents Tuesday detailing its own involvement in a
1982 "undercover" probe of prominent local businessmen the sect
believed were involved in a "conspiracy" to violate the
organization's constitutional rights.
Although FBI Special Agent in Charge Robert Butler declined Friday
be confirm or deny the investigation, at least one of the
businessmen targeted by the sect's operation said be has been
contacted by the officials.
Clearwater lawyer Timothy Johnson Jr., one of six local men
invited aboard the boat Trianon by sect representatives, said the
FBI called him after newspaper reports appeared about the sect's
undercover operation. "(The FBI) called and basically asked me
about what appeared in the paper," Johnson said. He recalled
speaking with the U.S. Attorney's Office late last month, "and
they said the FBI would probably do a follow-up (investigation)."
According to documents filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in
Tampa, the sect retained a Virginia private detective to
investigate Clearwater "businessmen .... influential citizens
...and people concerned with real estate," who sect officials
believed were conspiring against the sect.
Attached to the documents was a sworn statement by the detective,
Richard Bast, who said he was hired by an attorney for the sect
"to conduct a general information gathering investigation into a
possible conspiracy against the church by influential citizens in
Clearwater."
The Clearwater Sun has learned that Bast, with at least one other
man, used the 77-foot Trianon to entertain the six businessmen
while leading them to believe he represented clients "old European
money" - who wanted to invest in downtown Clearwater. Bast
acknowledged in his statement that there was no "old European
money" and that, indeed, the entire scheme was an intelligence
gathering operation.
But denied any involvement in the purported scheme to corrupt
Krentzman, although he acknowledged the Judge's name had been
mentioned prior to initiating the undercover operation.
Paul Johnson, a Tampa lawyer who represents the sect, was out of
the country and unavailable far comment Friday. Sect spokesman
Richard Haworth said he knew "nothing more than what is in the
documents" and only Johnson could elaborate on the undercover
operation and why Scientology officials thought there was a
conspiracy against the sect.
Bast's statement and accompanying affidavits and motions were a
response to a motion filed in late January by Boston lawyer
Michael Flynn, who represents Tonja Burden in her $16 million suit
against the sect.
In Flynn's motion filed in that case, he and a former high-ranking
Scientologist outlined the alleged plot to corrupt Judge
Krentzman. The sect, in denying Flynn's allegations, outlined the
undercover operation aimed at the businessmen.
The ruse the sect initiated in Clearwater in 1982 is not unique.
Sect documents - seized during FBI raids in Los Angeles and
Washington, D.C., and entered as government exhibits in several
trials - detail a number of sect activities using covert methods
to gather information.
On one occasion, when the sect was moving into Clearwater and
searching for a safe, secret location for Scientology founder L.
Ron Hubbard to live, a person named "Ron" outlined the ease in
moving about the city.
"Probably my best layout is to get very well known in the CW
(Clearwater) area with a camera in my hand and my Universial News
press card taking Pictures of "beautiful CW," states a seized Nov.
26, 1975, document stamped "SECRET."
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Science transcends mere politics. As recent history demonstrates,
scientists are as willing to work for a Tojo, a Hitler, or a Stalin as for
the free nations of the West." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
21 Mar 2005 05:41:20 PM |
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Les Hellawell wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
Not enough to pester the ATC people with this crap.
--
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
21 Mar 2005 05:39:56 PM |
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:24:44 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
http://whyaretheydead.net lists some fatalities commited by
Scientology and Scientology Inc. The crime syndicate's crimes and
human rights abuses are massive, and they continue. I see in the
news this week that Scientology killed yet another victim. When
will they be stopped? Why the ***** doesn't law enforcement do
something about this problem?
--
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Why must love always be accompanied -- sooner or later -- by sorrow and
pain? Why not? Because pure bliss is for pure idiots." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
21 Mar 2005 08:29:00 PM |
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<desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot)> wrote in message
news:3a8f7gF63eptlU2@individual.net...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:24:44 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
http://whyaretheydead.net lists some fatalities commited by
Scientology and Scientology Inc. The crime syndicate's crimes and
human rights abuses are massive, and they continue. I see in the
news this week that Scientology killed yet another victim. When
will they be stopped? Why the ***** doesn't law enforcement do
something about this problem?
Because they are a 'religion', conservative and have a lot of
money. The squatters in the White House probably approve
of them. They are probably paw in paw with each other.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
alt.atheism atheist/agnostic list name collector
BAAWA Knight & EAC Bible thumper thumper
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
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| User: "krp" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
21 Mar 2005 08:43:24 PM |
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"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:quWdnet3_bvgs6LfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
<desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot)> wrote in
message
news:3a8f7gF63eptlU2@individual.net...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:24:44 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
http://whyaretheydead.net lists some fatalities commited by
Scientology and Scientology Inc. The crime syndicate's crimes and
human rights abuses are massive, and they continue. I see in the
news this week that Scientology killed yet another victim. When
will they be stopped? Why the ***** doesn't law enforcement do
something about this problem?
Because they are a 'religion', conservative and have a lot of
money. The squatters in the White House probably approve
of them. They are probably paw in paw with each other.
Do you mean to claim that Bush wasn't legally elected?
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
22 Mar 2005 03:16:39 AM |
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"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
<desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot)> wrote in message
news:3a8f7gF63eptlU2@individual.net...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:24:44 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
http://whyaretheydead.net lists some fatalities commited by
Scientology and Scientology Inc. The crime syndicate's crimes and
human rights abuses are massive, and they continue. I see in the
news this week that Scientology killed yet another victim. When
will they be stopped? Why the ***** doesn't law enforcement do
something about this problem?
Because they are a 'religion', conservative and have a lot of
money. The squatters in the White House probably approve
of them. They are probably paw in paw with each other.
The Bush regime counts the criminal enterprise as a "faith based charity."
Every time Scientology ties a woman down to her bed and starves them to
death or holds people against their will in their "Rehabilitation Project
Force" work camps, our tax dollars at work.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
22 Mar 2005 02:27:47 AM |
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Desertphile, American Patriot wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:24:44 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
http://whyaretheydead.net lists some fatalities commited by
Scientology and Scientology Inc. The crime syndicate's crimes and
human rights abuses are massive, and they continue. I see in the
news this week that Scientology killed yet another victim. When
will they be stopped? Why the ***** doesn't law enforcement do
something about this problem?
I troll the web for news damn near every single day, and I have seen no
such news report. Get the ***** out of alt.true-crime and take this
back where it belongs.
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
22 Mar 2005 06:14:49 AM |
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wrote:
Desertphile, American Patriot wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:24:44 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
http://whyaretheydead.net lists some fatalities commited by
Scientology and Scientology Inc. The crime syndicate's crimes and
human rights abuses are massive, and they continue. I see in the
news this week that Scientology killed yet another victim. When
will they be stopped? Why the ***** doesn't law enforcement do
something about this problem?
I troll the web for news damn near every single day, and I have seen no
such news report. Get the ***** out of alt.true-crime and take this
back where it belongs.
Translation: This moron didn't see the news reports ergo Scientology's
homicides don't happen. <heh> You work for the Bush regime, by any chance?
The Scientology crime syndicate also got caught having smuggled a gun
runner into the US under a "student visa," just like the Saudi hijackers.
Bet this moron thinks that's not true crime, either.
Must be a Republidiot.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
22 Mar 2005 03:50:31 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 06:14:49 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) wrote:
soli13taire@juno.com wrote:
I troll the web for news damn near every single day,
It's quite obvious he is a troll.
and I have seen no such news report.
"Therefore it didn't happen." LOL!
Get the ***** out of alt.true-crime and take this
back where it belongs.
Organized crime is suddenly not of interest to alt.true-crime?
That's funny!
Translation: This moron didn't see the news reports ergo
Scientology's homicides don't happen. <heh> You work for
the Bush regime, by any chance?
Maybe he's a Scientology criminal that fears being exposed in
alt.true-crime
The Scientology crime syndicate also got caught having smuggled
a gun runner into the US under a "student visa," just like the
Saudi hijackers.
The crime syndicate gave the missile smuggler a "religion visa" to
get into the USA where he could sell rocket propelled gernades,
missiels, bombs, armor-piercing projectiles, incindiaries, etc.
This is right in line with Scientology Inc.'s creed: make money,
make more money, make others perform so as to make more money.
Bet this moron thinks that's not true crime, either.
Must be a Republidiot.
Me thinks you are correct.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
Sunday Express July 21, 1991 UK
Parents snatch cult girl to safety
by Kurt Parry and
Oonagh Blackman
A cult victim was safe with her family last night after a daring
rescue.
The science graduate turned to the Church of Scientology - accused
of using brainwashing tech- niques two years ago after a failed
romance. She became addicted to its "hypnosis" teaching methods.
Her parents contacted Scientology expert Jon Caven-Atack when she
began to regard everyone outside the church as an enemy.
The parents, who did not want to be identified, are now at a
secret address with their daughter after a suc- cessful reunion
believed to have cost thousands of pounds.
Kidnap
Mr Caven-Atack enlisted former Scientologists Jerry and Hana
Whitfield, who flew to Britain from Los Angeles. They claim that
from the start they were watched round the clock by
Scientologists.
The three met in a small Devon town and prepared a, safe house.
Devon Police, questioned them after a tip-off kidnap that they
were planning to kidnap a child but the situation was explained
The girl was lured to a secret address last week to see her
family, who told her they wanted to talk about Scientology. Ms.
Whitfield said said. "She she was 100% committed to the leader, L.
Ron Hubbard. Her mum and dad were very nervous."
After three days the girl questioned Scientology, and realised she
had been lied to. "The whole family seemed to come together again.
She was so shocked that these people had deceived her," added Mr.
Whitfield.
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"The 'terror' of the French Revolution lasted for ten years. The terror
that preceded and led to it lasted for a thousand years." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
22 Mar 2005 03:40:54 PM |
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On 21 Mar 2005 18:27:47 -0800, wrote:
Desertphile, American Patriot wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:24:44 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I thought Scientology was true crime?
http://whyaretheydead.net lists some fatalities commited by
Scientology and Scientology Inc. The crime syndicate's crimes and
human rights abuses are massive, and they continue. I see in the
news this week that Scientology killed yet another victim. When
will they be stopped? Why the ***** doesn't law enforcement do
something about this problem?
I troll the web for news damn near every single day, and I have seen no
such news report. Get the ***** out of alt.true-crime and take this
back where it belongs.
Counterpoint
Scientologist response remains true to form
Summer Bruin (UCLA)
2.8.1993
Your July 26 "Counterpoint" gave space to L.S. Hight,
international media coordinator for the "Church" of Scientology,
who criticized an excellent Bruin article by Nancy Hsu ("Church ,
Members File Suit Against Professor," May 17) in characteristic
Scientology fashion: with a vicious personal attack upon me.
Hight's diatribe was filled with lies and misrepresentations from
beginning to end.
My track record on human rights is far superior to that of Hight,
L. Ron Hubbard or any other Scientology official past or present,
and has been so for nearly half a century.
I have put my job, my reputation and even my life on the line for
human rights causes ranging from fascism in Europe to racism in
America to apartheid in South Africa; from punitive policies
against gays in the military (published in 1958!), to victims of
terrorism and torture, to neglect and mistreatment of the poor,
the mentally ill and children everywhere.
In fact, it is precisely because of my outspoken criticism of
Scientology's deceptive, manipulative, exploitive, dangerous, and
even brutal practices, which have diminished the freedom and
individuality of untold thousands of people, that they have long
since identified me as "fair game" for their perennial harassment,
vilification and character assassination.
The Center for Study of Life Threatening Behavior which was
proposed in the early 1970s by me and two dozen faculty colleagues
at UCLA was extensively reviewed and approved by objective
committees both within and outside the University. No such
"experiments" as "chemical castration" or "implanting electrodes
into people's brains" were proposed except perhaps in L. Ron
Hubbard's science fiction stories.
The only project (among 17) in which minorities would have been
over-represented was one in which model programs to diminish
violence among students through peer-counseling techniques were to
be tested at two Los Angeles inner-city schools at their request.
As America's epidemic of interpersonal violence has continued to
grow in the last 20 years, many knowledgeable people have
expressed regret that the proposed center was never funded.
Contrary to Hight's allegations (which Scientology has repeated ad
nauseam in Goebels' [sic] tradition of the Big Lie), I have never
taken part in "mind-control" experiments funded by the CIA or
anybody else. It is Scientology itself that has become wealthy and
powerful by using mind-control techniques to exploit innocent
seekers of self-improvement.
That I employ medications - and teach about their proper use - in
the practice of psychiatry is no secret, but Hight's implications
about any impropriety in this are totally false.
Finally. the "elephant story" is always thrown in by
Scientologists in their attacks upon me as though it were some
sort of shameful secret which they have exposed. You can read all
about it and judge for yourself. (Lysergic Acid Diethylamide: Its
Effects on a Male Asiatic Elephant, Science, December 7, 1962,
138: 34545, 1100-1103.) My co-authors were the distinguished
African-American psychiatrist, Dr. Chester Pierce, now a professor
at Harvard, and Dr. Warren Thomas, longtime director of the Los
Angeles Zoo.
Beware of Scientology. It is basically a science-fiction
psychotherapy cult concocted by one of our century's most
extravagant liars (a cross between the Baron Munchausen and Rev.
Jim Jones) and practiced by amateurs unrestricted by any code of
professional ethics, any peer review or any respect for the
content of modern behavioral science, clinical psychology or
scientific medicine.
Dr. Jolyon West, M.D. is a professor in the School of Medicine.
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"The world is older and bigger than we are. This is a hard truth for some
folks to swallow." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
21 Mar 2005 03:31:32 AM |
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On 20 Mar 2005 19:02:35 -0800, wrote:
nothing interesting, as usual
Freddie, you are such a cocksucking kook...
LIFE Magazine Nov 15, 1968
A growing cult reaches dangerously into the mind
SCIENTOLOGY
The lights in the hall go dim, leaving the bronzed bust of the
Founder spotlighted at center stage. From the loudpeakers comes L
Ron Hubbard's voice, deep and professional. It is a tape called
"Some Aspects of Help. Part 1," a basic lecture" in Scientology
that Hubbard recorded nearly 10 years ago.
No one in the intensely respectible Los Angeles audience of 500 --
some of whome paid as much as $16 to get in -- thought it odd to
be sitting there listening to a disembodied voice.Among believera,
Scientology and its founder are beyond frivolous question.
Scieniology is the Truth, it is the path to "a civilization
without insanity, without criminals and without war . . ." and
"for the first time in all ages there is something that
....delivers the answers to the eternal questions and delivers
immortality as well."
So much of a credo might be regarded as harmless -- practically
indistinguishable from any number of minro schemes for the
improvement of MAN. But Scientology is scary -- because of its
size and growth, and because of the potentially disastrous
technques it so casually makes use of. To attain the Truth, a
Scientologist surrenders himself to "auditing," a crude form of
psychoanalysis. In the best medical circumstances this is a
delicate procedure, but in Scientlogy it is undetaken by an
"auditor" who is simply another Scientologist in training, who
uses an "E-meter," which resembles a lie detector. A government
report, made to the parliament of the State of Victoria in
Australia three years ago, called Scientology 'the worlds largest
organization of unqualified persons engaging in the practice of
dangerous technques which masquerade as mental therapy." As author
Alan Levy found out by personal experience 'pages 100B - 114', the
auditing expereince can be a shattering.
How many souls have become hooked on Scientology is impossible
to say precisely. Worldwide membership -- England, South Africa,
Canada, New Zealand, Australia, France, Germany, Japan and the
U.S. -- is probably between two and three million. In the U.S.
officies in Washington, New York, Los Angeles and seven other
cities, the figure may now be more than several hundred thousand.
What is astonishing -- and frightening -- is the rate of growth in
the u.s.: membership has probably tripled or quadrupled in the
past three years.
Recruits to Scientology are most often young, intelligent and
idealistic. They become fanatics on the subject, impervious to
argument, quick to cut themselves off from soubters. Many young
people have been instructed by their Scientology organizations
"orgs," they are called to "disconnect" from their families.
"Disconnect" means exactly that: sever all relations. Such
estrangements can be deep and lasting, leaving heartsick parents
no longer able to speak rationally with their children.
Scientology is expensive. To reach the first meaningful stage
costs the beginner $650 in tuition. To become a Operating Thetan,
Class VIII -- the highest present classification -- can raise the
all-in cost (books, tuition, equipment, board and lodging at
Scientology centers suring advanced tarining) to as much as
$15,000. The high costs have the effect of turning many young
Scientologists into permanent parts of the apparatus. To finance
their own advanced studies they take low paying jobs within the
org -- and in the end find themselves alienated from life outside
of Scientology.
Scientology is nominally a "religion," and the figure of Hubbard
has taken on religious implications. The Nebraska born author of
the 1950 best-seller Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental
Health is now adored and remote. The literature hints at
persecution. In 1963 agents of the Food and Drug Administration
raided Scientology's Washington headquarters and seized a number
of E-meters. Scientologists still speak of the raid on the
"church." Scientology has been banned from the state of Victoria
in Australia. In England, where Hubbard established the world
headquarters of Scientology at Saint Hill, the government has
looked with increasing disfavor on Scientology. Asserting that
Scientology is "socially harmful," the government recently barred
from entry a number of would-be participants in a world
Scientology congress. Hubbard himself departed from England in the
summer og 1966 and now lives on a 320 foot converted passenger
ferry called the Royal Scot Man,cruising mostly between ports in
the Mediterranean. There, although he claims to have given up his
official ties to Saint Hill, he continues to train and send out
super scientologists to all parts of the world.
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"It is not enough to understand the natural world; the point is to defend
and preserve it." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
19 Mar 2005 08:14:37 PM |
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On 19 Mar 2005 11:13:55 -0800, wrote:
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
Appears mental; apply Thorazine.
Now then, where were we? Oh, yes, the Scientology crime
syndicate's crimes and human rights abuses. Such as:
St Petersburg Times
Scientology back at City Hall 8/4/89
Excerpt:
The former Scientologists made these allegations:
One man, Terry Prueher of Tampa, said he quit a job at General
Motors to join the Scientologists and said he was promised $10,000
for work he planned to do for the organization. But he said he
never
received the money. He also said he was robbed and injured after
leaving the organization. But he didn't offer evidence that
Scientologists were to blame.
"The hard core of Scientology is criminal," he said. "I think it's
a damaging cult," said Lisa Hyatt of St. Petersburg.
She said she was a member for a year and during that time, she
said she got about two hours of sleep per night. She said that the
organization altered her ability to perceive things normally and
that she was having trouble even focusing on the commissioners"
faces.
She urged city officials to learn as much about the organization
as possible.
"It will get somebody you know sooner or later,"" she said.
"I don"t have anything good to say about Scientology, because I
lost a sister to Scientology," said Joann Davis of Tampa. Because
her sister was heavily involved in Scientology activities, the two
lost touch. But now the sister is out of the organization, she
said. Margery Wakefield of Tampa, who helped organize the group,
said she is willing to talk to anyone with questions about
Scientology. She has spoken out against Scientology despite a
court order in which she agreed not to discuss some aspects of the
organization." I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live
fearing to speak.
The only real product of Scientology is More Scientologists That
is the etiology of cancer.
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Women: We cannot love them all. But we must try." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
19 Mar 2005 08:41:40 PM |
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Desertphile, American Patriot wrote:
On 19 Mar 2005 11:13:55 -0800, wrote:
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
19 Mar 2005 11:58:24 PM |
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On 19 Mar 2005 12:41:40 -0800, wrote:
Desertphile, American Patriot wrote:
On 19 Mar 2005 11:13:55 -0800, wrote:
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
CLEARWATER SUN
4 Jan 1984
By GEORGE-WAYNE SHELOR
Sun staff writer
The FBI, apparently acting on documents filed in U.S. District
Court this week, has expanded a federal investigation into an
alleged 1982 Scientology operation to entrap a Tampa federal
judge.
Initially, the federal probe was aimed at uncovering the
circumstances surrounding a purported Scientology plot to hire
U.S. District Judge, Ben Krentzman aboard a a boat where drugs,
prostitutes and hidden cameras, were to be used, to compromise
him.
However, the investigation was expanded after the Clearwater-based
sect filed documents Tuesday detailing its own involvement in a
1982 "undercover" probe of preminent local businessmen the sect
believed were involved in a conspiracy to violate the
organization's constitutional rights. .
Although FBI Special Agent in Charge Robert Ruder declined Friday
be confirm or deny the investigation, at least one of the
businessmen targeted by the sect's operation said be has been
contacted by the officials. . Clearwater lawyer Timothy Johnson
Jr., one of six local men invited aboard the boat Trianon by sect
representatives, said the FBI called him after newspaper reports
appeared about the sects, undercover operation. . "(The FBI)
called and basically asked me about what appeared in the paper,"
Johnson said. He recalled speaking with the U.S. Attorney's Office
late last month, "and they said the FBI would probably do a
follow-up (investigation).".
According to documents filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in
Tampa, the sect retained a Virginia private detective to
investigate Clearwater "businessmen .... influential citizens
...and people concerned with real estate," who sect officials
believed were conspiring against the sect.
Attached to the documents was a sworn statement by the detective,
Richard Bast who said he was hired by an attorney for the sect "to
conduct a general information gathering investigation into a
possible conspiracy against the church by influential citizens in
Clearwater."
The ClearwAter Sun has learned that Bast, with at least one other
man, used the 77-foot Trianon to entertain the six businessmen
while leading them to believe he represented clients "old European
money" who wanted to invest in downtown Clearwater. Bast
acknowledged in his statement that there was no "old European
money," and, indeed, the entire scheme was an intelligence
gathering operation.
But denied any involvement in the purported scheme to corrupt
Krentzman, although he acknowledged the Judge's name had been
mentioned prior to, initiating the undercover operation.
Paul Johnson, a Tampa lawyer who represents the sect, was out of
the country and unavailable far comment Friday. Sect spokesman
Richard Haworth said he knew "nothing more than what is in the
documents" and only Johnson could elaborate on the undercover
operation and why Scientology officials thought there was a
conspiracy against the sect.
Bast's statement and accompanying affidavits and motions were a
response to a motion filed in late January by Boston lawyer
Michael Flynn, who represents Tonja Burden in her $16 million suit
against the sect.
In Flynn's motion filed in that case, he and a former high-ranking
Scientologist outlined the alleged plot to corrupt Judge
Krentzman. The sect, in denying Flynn's allegations, outlined the
undercover operation aimed at the businessmen
The ruse the sect initiated in Clearwa- ter in 1982 is not unique.
Sect documents--seized during FBI raids in Los Angeles and
Washington, D.C., and entered as government exhibits in several
trials--detail a number of sect activities using covert methods to
gather information
On one occasion, when the sect was moving into Clearwater and
searching for a safe, secret location for Scientology founder L.
Ron Hubbard to live, a person ' named "Ron" outlined the ease in
moving about the city.
"Probably my best layout is to ` get very well known in the CW
(Clearwater) area with a camera in my hand and my Universial News
press card taking Pictures of "beautiful CW," states a seized Nov.
26, 1975, document stamped "SECRET."
---
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Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"The writer speaks not *to* his audience (who wants to listen to
lectures?) but *for* them, expressing their thoughts and emotions
through the imaginative power of his art." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
19 Mar 2005 08:42:26 PM |
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Desertphile, American Patriot wrote:
On 19 Mar 2005 11:13:55 -0800, wrote:
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
nothing interesting
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| User: "Lady Chatterly" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
19 Mar 2005 09:17:02 PM |
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In article <1111264946.588230.71130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
soli13taire@juno.com wrote:
nothing interesting
I do not know the world.
--
Lady Chatterly
"I think Lady Chatterly is an auto response b-o-t that posts
gibberish thats why she is female (just kidding girls) - I wanted to
give her some choice material to respond to, lets see what happens."
-- steve
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: DO NOT CROSSPOST SCIENTOLOGY CRAP TO ALT.TRUE-CRIME |
20 Mar 2005 12:02:22 AM |
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On 19 Mar 2005 12:42:26 -0800, wrote:
Desertphile, American Patriot wrote:
On 19 Mar 2005 11:13:55 -0800, wrote:
KEEP IT IN ALT.RELIGION.SCIENTOLOGY, *****
nothing interesting
Subject: Jury told of Scientology ATTACK policy
March 28, 1985 The oregonian
A Nevada man who claimed that he was a secret intelligence agent
for the "Church" of Scientology for eight years until 1979 read to
a Portland jury Wednesday a policy from the "church's" founder
urging attacks against "church" critics of the "church."
"When under attack, attack," said Edward Walters, reading from
what he said was a policy statement issued in 1968 by L. Ron
Hubbard, the "church's" founder. "The point is, even if you don't
have enough data to win the case, still attack loudly."
Walters appeared as a witness on behalf of Julie Christofferson
Titchbourne, a Portland woman who Is suing Hubbard and two
Scientology organizations for fraud arising from representations
made to her during a nine-month Involvement with the church ending
In 1976.
Walters said in the view of Scientologists, anyone who attacks the
"church" is a criminal and will back off from attacking the
"church" if they know they will be attacked in return.
Walters said he left the "church" in March' 1979. On
cross-examination he read from a "church" expulsion document that
accused him of "malicious rumormongerlng" and of not returning
"church" documents when he left.
Although he described engaging in four secret intelligence
operations on behalf of the "church" during an eight-year period,
Walters testified he never received any written or oral orders
from Hubbard to engage In those activities. It also appeared from
cross-examination testimony that the secret agent post he said he
held did not appear on the organizational chart of the church
drawn by a defense attorney.
Walters said he was told when be became an agent that Scientology
would disavow him if its activities became known.
Walters testified that the Intelligence branch of the "church"
used confidential "church" files to obtain Information that could
be used against Sclentologists or their relatives who showed signs
of attacking or criticizing the "church."
He said be was not personally involved in gathering information
about Titchbourne, but he said he was aware at the time that she
had caused a "flap" within the "church."
Walters said he left the "church" in 1979 after learning that the
Intelligence arm of the church was gathering Information on an
elderly church mem ber who claimed to have been in Hubbard's
presence in California and who doubted Hubbard's sanity.
Walters said In late 1977 as part of his church training he
listened to audio tapes from Hubbard that led him to believe
Hubbard had become "an angry, boisterous old man." He said he was
shocked at the time because he had spent years reading Hubbard's
works and believing in them.
The trial is in its third week and is expected to last at least
two more months.
---
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"A good book is a kind of paper club, serving to rouse the slumbrous and to
silence the obtuse." -- Edward Abbey
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