| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
31 Jul 2005 07:39:03 AM |
| Object: |
Sabbath and "blue laws" |
American "blue laws" were so named because they were originally printed
on blue paper.
Status: False.
Example: [The Columbia Encyclopedia, 2000]
The term was originally applied to the 17th-century laws of the
theocratic New Haven colony; they were called "blue laws" after the blue
paper on which they were printed.
http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm
Va. Error Reinstates Blue Law Workers Can Insist On Sundays Off
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 2, 2004; Page A01
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21059-2004Jul1.html
Blue law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law
blue laws
http://www.bartleby.com/65/bl/bluelaws.html
In battle for Sunday, the 'blue laws' are falling
By Sara B. Miller | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1205/p01s02-usju.html
CONNECTICUT BLUE LAWS. - These laws, enacted by the people of the "Dominion
of New Haven," became known as the blue laws because they were printed on
blue paper.
http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/bluelaws.html
The Reader's Companion to American History
BLUE LAWS
http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/rcah/html/ah_011100_bluelaws.htm
Blue Law Makes Webmasters See Red
By Randy Dotinga |
02:00 AM Jun. 16, 2005 PT
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,67869,00.html
The Blue Laws of Connecticut
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/bluelaws.html
Vintage Base Ball Fever, Catch It! (bare-handed)
What's a blue law, you ask? Blue laws are state or local regulations that
prohibit or restrict certain behaviors for religious purposes. Winona Lake
was famous for some of its blue laws:
http://www.villageatwinona.com/bluelaws.asp
NYC'S BLUE LAWS
by Erica Pearson
May 26, 2003
When the Harlem store Palace Liquors opened one particular day this week,
it was a moment that some New Yorkers had wanted for more than three
centuries. That is because the day it opened was Sunday. New York liquor
stores have never before been allowed to open on Sunday.
http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/issueoftheweek/20030526/200/405
Old Blue Laws Are Hitting Red Lights
Statutes Rolled Back As Anachronisms
By Jonathan Finer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 4, 2004; Page A03
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33552-2004Dec3.html
Blue Laws
The True-blue laws of Connecticut and New Haven : and the false blue-laws
invented by the Rev. Samuel Peters
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/other/ABL/etext/trueblue/bluelawsmain.html
Colonial Massachusetts
Blue Laws
Personal Conduct Regulation
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1164.html
blue law: Definition and Much More From Answers.com
blue law n. A law designed to regulate commercial business on Sunday.
http://www.answers.com/topic/blue-law
A NEW EFFORT TO DEFEND, LEGISLATE THE SABBATH ?
cross/flagReligious groups are increasingly demanding special action
from government and civic groups to "protect" their weekly religious
holiday, Sunday. Pope John Paul will issue a special letter this week
urging his flock of sheep to join in this effort.
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/sunday1.htm
Blue Laws Make Blue Americans
By SexHerald Staff
http://www.sexherald.com/sexual-taboo/blue_laws_make_blue_americans.html
Blue Laws
Overview >
By Dave Roland
Contributing writer
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/rel_liberty/free_exercise/topic.aspx?topic=blue_laws
Saturday, July 23, 2005
Blue Law's gone -- let's drink to that
Liquor sales among scores of regulations that will take effect
By DAVID AMMONS
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/233779_newlaws23.html
* Sunday (Sabbath) arguments and Clashes (1810-1835)
o Genealogy of Sunday Laws
http://candst.tripod.com/geneal.html
o The Sunday Mail argument (1810-1830)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/sundays3.htm
o Sundays Excepted
http://candst.tripod.com/sundays.htm
o "Sunday Excepted" & "Year of Our lord" (1830-1833)
http://candst.tripod.com/sundays2.htm
Some Triva
George Washington transacted business on Sundays, visited friends and
relatives, traveled [in fact, he was once detained --by the "Sabbath
police" for traveling on Sunday when he was President] and sometimes went
fox-hunting instead of going to church.
SOURCE OF INFORMATION: George Washington & Religion, by Paul F. Boller JR.
Southern Methodist University Press. (1963) pp 29
********************
Separation of Church and State Home Page
The "Sundays Excepted" Clause and the Sabbath.
Research by Jim Allison and Susan Batte.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg10b.htm
Many states, for example, prohibited traveling on Sundays, and Presidents
were not immune to prosecutions for violation of such laws. In fact, the
Columbian Centinel of December 1789 reported that just such a fate befell
President George Washington when he decided to travel on a Sunday.
************************************
President George Washington was charged with violating a Connecticut blue
law in 1789, according to David N. Laband and Deborah Hendry Heinbuch, who
cite a report on the incident in their 1987 book, Blue Laws: The History,
Economics and Politics of Sunday-Closing Laws. Washington's travel from
Connecticut to New York violated a law against unnecessarily walking or
riding on Sunday. Ironically, he was on his way to church at the time.
Washington was allowed to continue his journey only after promising to
travel no farther than the town he intended to visit.
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/rel_liberty/free_exercise/topic.aspx?topic=blue_laws
****************************************
Columbian Centinel of December, 1789, is worth mentioning: "The President
[George Washington], on his return to New York from his late tour through
Connecticut, having missed his way on Saturday, was obliged to ride a few
miles on Sunday morning in order to gain the town at which he had proposed
to attend divine service. Before he arrived, however, he was met by a
tithing man, who, commanding him to stop, demanded the occasion of his
riding; and it was not until the President had informed him of every
circumstance and promised to go no further than the town Page 313 intended
that the tithing man would permit him to proceed on his journey." [*154]
4-154 The Blue Laws of Connecticut, p. 75.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/lewis/lewten44.htm
********************************************************************************************
Some books I highly recommend
FIRST EDITION
American State Papers Bearing on Sunday Legislation
First Edition Compiled by William Addison Blakely, of the Chicago Bar.
(1890)
SECOND EDITION
American State Papers Bearing On Sunday Legislation, Revised and Enlarged
Edition, Compiled and Annotated by William Addison Blakely, Revised Edition
Edited by Willard Allen Colcord, The Religious Liberty Association,
Washington D.C. 1911,
http://lists.washlaw.edu/pipermail/marketing/Week-of-Mon-20040419/000734.html
THIRD EDITION
American State Papers on Freedom in Religion, 3rd Revised Edition.
Published in 1943 for The Religious Liberty Association, Washington, D.C.
by the Review and Herald.
**************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
07 Aug 2005 02:58:39 PM |
|
|
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
:|buckeye-Elo@nospam.net wrote:
:|> "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
:|>
:|> >:|buckeye-Elo@nospam.net wrote:
:|> >:|> American "blue laws" were so named because they were originally printed
:|> >:|> on blue paper.
:|> >:|> Status: False.
:|> >:|> Example: [The Columbia Encyclopedia, 2000]
:|> >:|> The term was originally applied to the 17th-century laws of the
:|> >:|> theocratic New Haven colony; they were called "blue laws" after the blue
:|> >:|> paper on which they were printed.
:|> >:|> http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> Va. Error Reinstates Blue Law Workers Can Insist On Sundays Off
:|> >:|> By Michael D. Shear
:|> >:|> Washington Post Staff Writer
:|> >:|> Friday, July 2, 2004; Page A01
:|> >:|> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21059-2004Jul1.html
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> Blue law
:|> >:|> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> blue laws
:|> >:|> http://www.bartleby.com/65/bl/bluelaws.html
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> In battle for Sunday, the 'blue laws' are falling
:|> >:|> By Sara B. Miller | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
:|> >:|> http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1205/p01s02-usju.html
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> CONNECTICUT BLUE LAWS. - These laws, enacted by the people of the "Dominion
:|> >:|> of New Haven," became known as the blue laws because they were printed on
:|> >:|> blue paper.
:|> >:|> http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/bluelaws.html
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|
:|> >:|Thank you for posting these references to blue laws.
:|> >:|
:|> >:|Note that Romans 14:4-6 reflects that blue laws are not founded on
:|> >:|basic Bible teachings. The problem is that the people who implemented
:|> >:|blue laws were probably christians who thought they were doing the
:|> >:|Lord's work. Ironically, Romans 14:1 indicates that such "morality
:|> >:|police" christians are actually weak in the faith. Being weak in the
:|> >:|faith they probably didn't know the Scriptures too well (Matthew
:|> >:|22:29). As a consequence of not knowing the Scriptures, they caved in
:|> >:|to "morality police" peer pressure (Proverbs 29:25) and foolishly
:|> >:|substituted blue laws for Romans 14:5-6 (Mark 7:7-9).
:|>
:|> Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is stated
:|> that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
:|> Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust' on
:|> it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
:|> motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
:|>
:|> "Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they
:|> love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that
:|> people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward. But
:|> whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your
:|> Father in secret.
:|> And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you. When you pray,
:|> do not babble repetitiously like the Gentiles, because they think that by
:|> their many words they will be heard. Do not be like them, for your Father
:|> knows what you need before you ask him.
:|
:|Sir, before I point anything out to the readers, would you please point
:|out to the readers the laws that say that America isn't under God, or
:|the laws that say that Americans can't post the Ten Commandments or
:|have religious displays or have "In God We Trust" on its coins? But
:|don't look to hard because you're not going to find such laws anyway.
:|This is because the 1st Amendment prohibits Congress from writing such
:|laws in the first place.
Be more than happy to do that
Let me begin this way:
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the
following Oath or
Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm)
******************************************************************************
Article. VI.
[snip]
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in
Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under
the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the
Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any
Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary
notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the
several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers,
both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by
Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test
shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust
under the United States.
*************************************************************************
Article the third [Amendment I] [1]
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
**********************************************************************************
The US Constitution in general.
Do you see anywhere in that document any seat for religion at the table of
government? Any authority for religion, any office, any trappings, any
influence given it. any acknowledgment that there is any God, any divine
authority about the Constitution which is the supreme law of this nation?
No, you do not
Remember, the Constitution is a document of enumerated power and
authority.
No "LAW" PREVENTING SUCH HAS TO EXIST SINCE NO POWER OR
AUTHORITY WAS EVER GIVEN TO DO SUCH TO BEGIN WITH.
BUT, NEVER FEAR, MOVING ALONG HERE:
************************************************************************
THE ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE AS DEFINED IN 1947:
-----------------------------------------------
The Establishment Clause as defined by the USSC in Everson v. Bd of Ed,
1947
The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at
least this:
(1) neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church.
(2) Neither can pass laws which aid one religion,
(2a) aid all religions,
(2b) or prefer one religion over another.
(3) Neither can force
(3a) nor influence a person to go to
(3b) or to remain away from church against his will
(3c) or force him to profess a belief
(3d) or disbelief in any religion.
(4) No person can be punished for entertaining [p*16]
(4a) or professing religious beliefs
(4b) or disbeliefs,
(4c) for church attendance
(4d) or non-attendance.
(5) No tax in any amount,
(5a) large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities
(5b) or institutions, whatever they may be called,
(5c) or whatever form they may adopt to teach
(5d) or practice religion.
(6) Neither a state
(6a) nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the
(6b) affairs of any religious organizations
(6c) or groups,
(6d) and vice versa.
*********************************************************************************8
Wnat me to list the court cases that are laws that prevent such?
**************************************************************************
FINALLY:
* Madison's Arguments Against Special Religious Sanction of American
Government
http://candst.tripod.com/madlib.htm
* Madison's vetoes: Some of The First Official Meanings Assigned to The
Establishment Clause (1811)
http://candst.tripod.com/madvetos.htm
* A Baptist minister and follow warrior with Jefferson, Madison and
others in the struggle for religious freedom gave this advice about
electing public officials: "...guard against those men who make a great
noise about religion..."
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/leland5.htm
The Christian Bible and the Foundations of the U.S.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/biblfoun.htm
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
01 Aug 2005 08:18:29 AM |
|
|
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
:|buckeye-Elo@nospam.net wrote:
:|> American "blue laws" were so named because they were originally printed
:|> on blue paper.
:|> Status: False.
:|> Example: [The Columbia Encyclopedia, 2000]
:|> The term was originally applied to the 17th-century laws of the
:|> theocratic New Haven colony; they were called "blue laws" after the blue
:|> paper on which they were printed.
:|> http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm
:|>
:|> Va. Error Reinstates Blue Law Workers Can Insist On Sundays Off
:|> By Michael D. Shear
:|> Washington Post Staff Writer
:|> Friday, July 2, 2004; Page A01
:|> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21059-2004Jul1.html
:|>
:|> Blue law
:|> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law
:|>
:|> blue laws
:|> http://www.bartleby.com/65/bl/bluelaws.html
:|>
:|> In battle for Sunday, the 'blue laws' are falling
:|> By Sara B. Miller | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
:|> http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1205/p01s02-usju.html
:|>
:|> CONNECTICUT BLUE LAWS. - These laws, enacted by the people of the "Dominion
:|> of New Haven," became known as the blue laws because they were printed on
:|> blue paper.
:|> http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/bluelaws.html
:|>
:|
:|Thank you for posting these references to blue laws.
:|
:|Note that Romans 14:4-6 reflects that blue laws are not founded on
:|basic Bible teachings. The problem is that the people who implemented
:|blue laws were probably christians who thought they were doing the
:|Lord's work. Ironically, Romans 14:1 indicates that such "morality
:|police" christians are actually weak in the faith. Being weak in the
:|faith they probably didn't know the Scriptures too well (Matthew
:|22:29). As a consequence of not knowing the Scriptures, they caved in
:|to "morality police" peer pressure (Proverbs 29:25) and foolishly
:|substituted blue laws for Romans 14:5-6 (Mark 7:7-9).
Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is stated
that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust' on
it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
"Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they
love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that
people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward. But
whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your
Father in secret.
And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you. When you pray,
do not babble repetitiously like the Gentiles, because they think that by
their many words they will be heard. Do not be like them, for your Father
knows what you need before you ask him.
************************************************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "J Strickland" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
02 Aug 2005 04:30:30 PM |
|
|
<buckeye-Elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:j78se1d97jf8up33vd8pknbtpiele8lar7@4ax.com...
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
:|buckeye-Elo@nospam.net wrote:
:|> American "blue laws" were so named because they were originally
printed
:|> on blue paper.
:|> Status: False.
:|> Example: [The Columbia Encyclopedia, 2000]
:|> The term was originally applied to the 17th-century laws of the
:|> theocratic New Haven colony; they were called "blue laws" after the
blue
:|> paper on which they were printed.
:|> http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm
:|>
:|> Va. Error Reinstates Blue Law Workers Can Insist On Sundays Off
:|> By Michael D. Shear
:|> Washington Post Staff Writer
:|> Friday, July 2, 2004; Page A01
:|> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21059-2004Jul1.html
:|>
:|> Blue law
:|> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law
:|>
:|> blue laws
:|> http://www.bartleby.com/65/bl/bluelaws.html
:|>
:|> In battle for Sunday, the 'blue laws' are falling
:|> By Sara B. Miller | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
:|> http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1205/p01s02-usju.html
:|>
:|> CONNECTICUT BLUE LAWS. - These laws, enacted by the people of the
"Dominion
:|> of New Haven," became known as the blue laws because they were printed
on
:|> blue paper.
:|> http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/bluelaws.html
:|>
:|
:|Thank you for posting these references to blue laws.
:|
:|Note that Romans 14:4-6 reflects that blue laws are not founded on
:|basic Bible teachings. The problem is that the people who implemented
:|blue laws were probably christians who thought they were doing the
:|Lord's work. Ironically, Romans 14:1 indicates that such "morality
:|police" christians are actually weak in the faith. Being weak in the
:|faith they probably didn't know the Scriptures too well (Matthew
:|22:29). As a consequence of not knowing the Scriptures, they caved in
:|to "morality police" peer pressure (Proverbs 29:25) and foolishly
:|substituted blue laws for Romans 14:5-6 (Mark 7:7-9).
Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
stated
that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust' on
it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
Why do you try to insist that there is a _Biblical obligation_ to "under
God" or the 10 Commandments? There is no such obligation, and to suggest
there is is nothing short of idiotic.
Where in the Bible does it state that we must not do these things? Don't
bother searching, it doesn't say it anywhere in the Bible.
Where in the Bible does it say that we should promote homosexuality? It
doesn't. Your attempt to find Biblical basis here is absurd, my examples are
just as absurd, but they are only to show how silly you are being.
Blue Laws were precisely the kind of thing that the 1st Amendment was meant
to curb. There is ample discussion both ways as to what the states may or
may not do relative to blue laws. But what my church wants me to do on
Sunday is of no consequence to anybody else, and this kind of restriction
has no business being codefied in Federal law. I see no problem with a State
passing a law that closes businesses on Sunday, or restricts sales of
certain products. I don't see closing business as a real threat, and we
already have many states and local jurisdictions that restrict sales on
Sunday of certain products. I suspect these restrictions probably have root
in blue laws, but nobody is ever going to admit it. Or, maybe they will but
given the bent of the ACLU, I suspect that silence here is golden.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
03 Aug 2005 12:19:06 PM |
|
|
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
:|
:|<buckeye-Elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
:|news:j78se1d97jf8up33vd8pknbtpiele8lar7@4ax.com...
:|> "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
:|>
:|>>:|buckeye-Elo@nospam.net wrote:
:|>>:|> American "blue laws" were so named because they were originally
:|>>printed
:|>>:|> on blue paper.
:|>>:|> Status: False.
:|>>:|> Example: [The Columbia Encyclopedia, 2000]
:|>>:|> The term was originally applied to the 17th-century laws of the
:|>>:|> theocratic New Haven colony; they were called "blue laws" after the
:|>>blue
:|>>:|> paper on which they were printed.
:|>>:|> http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm
:|>>:|>
:|>>:|> Va. Error Reinstates Blue Law Workers Can Insist On Sundays Off
:|>>:|> By Michael D. Shear
:|>>:|> Washington Post Staff Writer
:|>>:|> Friday, July 2, 2004; Page A01
:|>>:|> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21059-2004Jul1.html
:|>>:|>
:|>>:|> Blue law
:|>>:|> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law
:|>>:|>
:|>>:|> blue laws
:|>>:|> http://www.bartleby.com/65/bl/bluelaws.html
:|>>:|>
:|>>:|> In battle for Sunday, the 'blue laws' are falling
:|>>:|> By Sara B. Miller | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
:|>>:|> http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1205/p01s02-usju.html
:|>>:|>
:|>>:|> CONNECTICUT BLUE LAWS. - These laws, enacted by the people of the
:|>>"Dominion
:|>>:|> of New Haven," became known as the blue laws because they were printed
:|>>on
:|>>:|> blue paper.
:|>>:|> http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/bluelaws.html
:|>>:|>
:|>>:|
:|>>:|Thank you for posting these references to blue laws.
:|>>:|
:|>>:|Note that Romans 14:4-6 reflects that blue laws are not founded on
:|>>:|basic Bible teachings. The problem is that the people who implemented
:|>>:|blue laws were probably christians who thought they were doing the
:|>>:|Lord's work. Ironically, Romans 14:1 indicates that such "morality
:|>>:|police" christians are actually weak in the faith. Being weak in the
:|>>:|faith they probably didn't know the Scriptures too well (Matthew
:|>>:|22:29). As a consequence of not knowing the Scriptures, they caved in
:|>>:|to "morality police" peer pressure (Proverbs 29:25) and foolishly
:|>>:|substituted blue laws for Romans 14:5-6 (Mark 7:7-9).
:|>
:|> Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
:|> stated
:|> that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
:|> Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust' on
:|> it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
:|> motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
:|>
:|
:|Why do you try to insist that there is a _Biblical obligation_ to "under
:|God" or the 10 Commandments?
Hey dude, in case you missed it, the other fella broght the Bible into the
discussion, thus "opening the door" as they say.
Since he brought the Bible into the discussion, opened that door, I asked
him a simple question on that topic.
But that went over your head, huh, jeffy boy.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
02 Aug 2005 11:44:13 PM |
|
|
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
stated
that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust' on
it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
Why do you try to insist that there is a _Biblical obligation_ to "under
God" or the 10 Commandments?
The religious right claim that there is, which is why they promote
such things, and therefore why we must oppose such things.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "J Strickland" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
05 Aug 2005 12:30:56 PM |
|
|
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:1qi0f1lsih7lqnpje7vq1t97gm9rghcvf7@4ax.com...
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
stated
that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust'
on
it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
Why do you try to insist that there is a _Biblical obligation_ to "under
God" or the 10 Commandments?
The religious right claim that there is, which is why they promote
such things, and therefore why we must oppose such things.
That's ***** Bob, and you know it.
Nobody says there is a Biblical o-b-l-i-g-a-t-i-o-n to erect monuments to
the 10 Commandments, print sayings on money, or have "under God" in the
Pledge. There is no obligation to have these things, and there is nothing
wrong with having them.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
05 Aug 2005 03:06:27 PM |
|
|
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" < > wrote in message
news:1qi0f1lsih7lqnpje7vq1t97gm9rghcvf7@4ax.com...
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
stated
that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust'
on
it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
Why do you try to insist that there is a _Biblical obligation_ to "under
God" or the 10 Commandments?
The religious right claim that there is, which is why they promote
such things, and therefore why we must oppose such things.
That's ***** Bob, and you know it.
No, I don't.
Nobody says there is a Biblical o-b-l-i-g-a-t-i-o-n to erect monuments to
the 10 Commandments, print sayings on money, or have "under God" in the
Pledge.
Not specifically. But if there is no obligation to do so, why should
they want government to do so?
There is no obligation to have these things, and there is nothing
wrong with having them.
That is your opinion. I disagree.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "J Strickland" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
05 Aug 2005 05:06:59 PM |
|
|
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:5hh7f1tk9d2dvtake9osja6uumjhcq37ra@4ax.com...
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:1qi0f1lsih7lqnpje7vq1t97gm9rghcvf7@4ax.com...
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
stated
that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We
Trust'
on
it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
Why do you try to insist that there is a _Biblical obligation_ to "under
God" or the 10 Commandments?
The religious right claim that there is, which is why they promote
such things, and therefore why we must oppose such things.
That's ***** Bob, and you know it.
No, I don't.
Nobody says there is a Biblical o-b-l-i-g-a-t-i-o-n to erect monuments
to
the 10 Commandments, print sayings on money, or have "under God" in the
Pledge.
Not specifically. But if there is no obligation to do so, why should
they want government to do so?
Why not want government to do it? If government is reflective of society,
then why not have government reflect society? You and I may not share all of
the values of society, but that doesn't stop society from having the values
it has, and government should be a reflection of those values whether you or
I have them or not.
I see nothing wrong at all if in 100 years, the Jews run America, and they
look back on the late 20th Century artifacts and say, "wow, we once believed
in Jesus. Isn't that amazing?" because there is a monument to the 10
Commandments resting in the rotunda of some courthouse somewhere. I see no
problem at all if today we put things on Public Seals that give recognition
of events that happened 150 years ago.
There is no obligation to have these things, and there is nothing
wrong with having them.
That is your opinion. I disagree.
Ditto.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
05 Aug 2005 07:11:02 PM |
|
|
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" < > wrote in message
news:5hh7f1tk9d2dvtake9osja6uumjhcq37ra@4ax.com...
Nobody says there is a Biblical o-b-l-i-g-a-t-i-o-n to erect monuments
to
the 10 Commandments, print sayings on money, or have "under God" in the
Pledge.
Not specifically. But if there is no obligation to do so, why should
they want government to do so?
Why not want government to do it? If government is reflective of society,
then why not have government reflect society?
Society is inherently divided. Government, in order to be sound,
needs to be undivided.
You and I may not share all of
the values of society, but that doesn't stop society from having the values
it has,
Society doesn't have values. Individuals have values.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
07 Aug 2005 06:07:44 AM |
|
|
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
:|Why not want government to do it?
I serioulsy doubt that you have ever studied any church state history at
all. If you had, and even more importantly, if you had understood what you
read you would never have made the abotu comment
The fact that you did make it only highlights how ignorant of this topic
you really are.
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "fred" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
13 Aug 2005 01:47:29 AM |
|
|
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
stated
that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust' on
it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
Why do you try to insist that there is a _Biblical obligation_ to "under
God" or the 10 Commandments?
The religious right claim that there is, which is why they promote
such things, and therefore why we must oppose such things.
I agree with the gist of what you're saying about the religious right
and so-called biblical obligation. But could you please reference
names of people and what they said?
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
13 Aug 2005 03:32:42 AM |
|
|
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
stated
that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust' on
it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
Why do you try to insist that there is a _Biblical obligation_ to "under
God" or the 10 Commandments?
The religious right claim that there is, which is why they promote
such things, and therefore why we must oppose such things.
I agree with the gist of what you're saying about the religious right
and so-called biblical obligation. But could you please reference
names of people and what they said?
In the context of me arguing with
Jeff-who-gets-headaches-when-someone-asks-him-to-read-evidence, former
judge Roy Moore is a good name to drop, and one can find any number of
places where Moore made such claims. The last three paragraphs of
this interview are one such:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35547
Here's another person, talking about the Moore case:
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin130.htm
The larger picture is the Dominionist movement, and here are a few
articles with quotes from their leaders:
http://www.dabney.com/charles/Sandlin-CR.html
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/ChristiansPlotToRemakeAmerica.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology
is a general discussion of the Dominionist movement in a larger
context than merely the political aspects.
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/21/13392/6893
gives more specifics.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
16 Aug 2005 05:09:51 AM |
|
|
Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
:|"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
:|>Bob LeChevalier wrote:
:|>> "J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
:|>> >> Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
:|>> >> stated
:|>> >> that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
:|>> >> Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust' on
:|>> >> it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
:|>> >> motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
:|>> >
:|>> >Why do you try to insist that there is a _Biblical obligation_ to "under
:|>> >God" or the 10 Commandments?
:|>>
:|>> The religious right claim that there is, which is why they promote
:|>> such things, and therefore why we must oppose such things.
:|>
:|>I agree with the gist of what you're saying about the religious right
:|>and so-called biblical obligation. But could you please reference
:|>names of people and what they said?
:|
:|In the context of me arguing with
:|Jeff-who-gets-headaches-when-someone-asks-him-to-read-evidence, former
:|judge Roy Moore is a good name to drop, and one can find any number of
:|places where Moore made such claims. The last three paragraphs of
:|this interview are one such:
:|http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35547
:|
:|Here's another person, talking about the Moore case:
:|http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin130.htm
:|
:|
:|The larger picture is the Dominionist movement, and here are a few
:|articles with quotes from their leaders:
:|http://www.dabney.com/charles/Sandlin-CR.html
:|http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/ChristiansPlotToRemakeAmerica.html
:|
:|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology
:|is a general discussion of the Dominionist movement in a larger
:|context than merely the political aspects.
:|http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/21/13392/6893
:|gives more specifics.
:|
:|lojbab
and here is a lot more information
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads area of Virginia you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
13 Aug 2005 01:10:02 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 16:30:30 -0500, J Strickland wrote
(in article <2uborkhTOgGeHLfRVn-sw@ez2.net>):
I see no problem with a State passing a law that closes businesses on Sunday,
or restricts sales of certain products.
facism:
Private Ownership,
State Control.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Native American" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
01 Aug 2005 09:12:01 AM |
|
|
--
Know the difference between a leftist and a potato? The difference is that
a potato will sprout, seek the sunlight and grow while a leftist will remain
buried in the dirt blaming everybody and everything but himself for his
situation.
- Steven Canyon
<buckeye-Elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:j78se1d97jf8up33vd8pknbtpiele8lar7@4ax.com...
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
:|buckeye-Elo@nospam.net wrote:
:|> American "blue laws" were so named because they were originally
printed
:|> on blue paper.
:|> Status: False.
:|> Example: [The Columbia Encyclopedia, 2000]
:|> The term was originally applied to the 17th-century laws of the
:|> theocratic New Haven colony; they were called "blue laws" after the
blue
:|> paper on which they were printed.
:|> http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm
:|>
:|> Va. Error Reinstates Blue Law Workers Can Insist On Sundays Off
:|> By Michael D. Shear
:|> Washington Post Staff Writer
:|> Friday, July 2, 2004; Page A01
:|> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21059-2004Jul1.html
:|>
:|> Blue law
:|> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law
:|>
:|> blue laws
:|> http://www.bartleby.com/65/bl/bluelaws.html
:|>
:|> In battle for Sunday, the 'blue laws' are falling
:|> By Sara B. Miller | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
:|> http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1205/p01s02-usju.html
:|>
:|> CONNECTICUT BLUE LAWS. - These laws, enacted by the people of the
"Dominion
:|> of New Haven," became known as the blue laws because they were printed
on
:|> blue paper.
:|> http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/bluelaws.html
:|>
:|
:|Thank you for posting these references to blue laws.
:|
:|Note that Romans 14:4-6 reflects that blue laws are not founded on
:|basic Bible teachings. The problem is that the people who implemented
:|blue laws were probably christians who thought they were doing the
:|Lord's work. Ironically, Romans 14:1 indicates that such "morality
:|police" christians are actually weak in the faith. Being weak in the
:|faith they probably didn't know the Scriptures too well (Matthew
:|22:29). As a consequence of not knowing the Scriptures, they caved in
:|to "morality police" peer pressure (Proverbs 29:25) and foolishly
:|substituted blue laws for Romans 14:5-6 (Mark 7:7-9).
Would you mind pointing out to the readers where in the Bible it is
stated
that America is"under God" or that Americans should post the Ten
Commandments or have xmas religious displays or have "In God We Trust' on
it's coins, in it's public buildings and replace the original national
motto with it or seek teacher led prayer in opposition to this:
First YOU need to tell us why YOU think the Bible is authoritative over our
society.
.
|
|
|
| User: "J Strickland" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
02 Aug 2005 04:31:06 PM |
|
|
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:R4qHe.12179$oZ.8748@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
--
Know the difference between a leftist and a potato? The difference is
that a potato will sprout, seek the sunlight and grow while a leftist will
remain buried in the dirt blaming everybody and everything but himself for
his situation.
- Steven Canyon
I like it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
02 Aug 2005 04:35:24 PM |
|
|
In article <BrGdncMY-a4ieHLfRVn-pQ@ez2.net> "J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> writes:
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:R4qHe.12179$oZ.8748@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
--
Know the difference between a leftist and a potato? The difference is
that a potato will sprout, seek the sunlight and grow while a leftist will
remain buried in the dirt blaming everybody and everything but himself for
his situation.
- Steven Canyon
I like it.
Know the difference between a neo-con and potato blight?
Well, don't feel bad: no one else does either.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "nJb" |
|
| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
03 Aug 2005 01:17:21 AM |
|
|
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <BrGdncMY-a4ieHLfRVn-pQ@ez2.net> "J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> writes:
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:R4qHe.12179$oZ.8748@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
--
Know the difference between a leftist and a potato? The difference is
that a potato will sprout, seek the sunlight and grow while a leftist will
remain buried in the dirt blaming everybody and everything but himself for
his situation.
- Steven Canyon
I like it.
Know the difference between a neo-con and potato blight?
Well, don't feel bad: no one else does either.
-- cary
I like it.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
03 Aug 2005 01:16:47 AM |
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J Strickland wrote:
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:R4qHe.12179$oZ.8748@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
--
Know the difference between a leftist and a potato? The difference is
that a potato will sprout, seek the sunlight and grow while a leftist will
remain buried in the dirt blaming everybody and everything but himself for
his situation.
- Steven Canyon
I like it.
Great. One idiot quoting another and a third liking it. If they can find
a fourth maybe we'll have a half wit.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
01 Aug 2005 10:09:32 AM |
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"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
:|
:|First YOU need to tell us why YOU think the Bible is authoritative over our
:|society.
You need to address that to Fred since he brought the bible into the mix
*************************************************************************************
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
buckeye-Elo@nospam.net wrote:
American "blue laws" were so named because they were originally printed
on blue paper.
Status: False.
Example: [The Columbia Encyclopedia, 2000]
The term was originally applied to the 17th-century laws of the
theocratic New Haven colony; they were called "blue laws" after the blue
paper on which they were printed.
http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm
Va. Error Reinstates Blue Law Workers Can Insist On Sundays Off
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 2, 2004; Page A01
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21059-2004Jul1.html
Blue law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law
blue laws
http://www.bartleby.com/65/bl/bluelaws.html
In battle for Sunday, the 'blue laws' are falling
By Sara B. Miller | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1205/p01s02-usju.html
CONNECTICUT BLUE LAWS. - These laws, enacted by the people of the "Dominion
of New Haven," became known as the blue laws because they were printed on
blue paper.
http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/bluelaws.html
Thank you for posting these references to blue laws.
Note that Romans 14:4-6 reflects that blue laws are not founded on
basic Bible teachings. The problem is that the people who implemented
blue laws were probably christians who thought they were doing the
Lord's work. Ironically, Romans 14:1 indicates that such "morality
police" christians are actually weak in the faith. Being weak in the
faith they probably didn't know the Scriptures too well (Matthew
22:29). As a consequence of not knowing the Scriptures, they caved in
to "morality police" peer pressure (Proverbs 29:25) and foolishly
substituted blue laws for Romans 14:5-6 (Mark 7:7-9).
<snipped for brevity>
************************************************************************
************************************************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
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| User: "J Strickland" |
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| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
02 Aug 2005 04:35:52 PM |
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<buckeye-Elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pese1tbii8ngoifvti75fj38d7qc5fr5n@4ax.com...
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
:|
:|First YOU need to tell us why YOU think the Bible is authoritative over
our
:|society.
You need to address that to Fred since he brought the bible into the mix
You can't possibly be that stupid Jimmy. YOU brought the Bible into the
discussion by simply bringing the topic up. How in Hell do you expect
anybody to talk with you about the Sabbath and Blue Laws without a Biblical
reference? Christians even recognize that Blue Laws are over the top, and
Fred suggested as much.
Of course, when you're a leftist ...
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
06 Aug 2005 09:28:09 AM |
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"J Strickland" <spam@nospam.net> wrote:
:|
:|<buckeye-Elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
:|news:2pese1tbii8ngoifvti75fj38d7qc5fr5n@4ax.com...
:|> "Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
:|>
:|>>:|
:|>>:|First YOU need to tell us why YOU think the Bible is authoritative over
:|>>our
:|>>:|society.
:|>
:|> You need to address that to Fred since he brought the bible into the mix
:|>
:|
:|
:|You can't possibly be that stupid Jimmy. YOU brought the Bible into the
:|discussion by simply bringing the topic up. How in Hell do you expect
:|anybody to talk with you about the Sabbath and Blue Laws without a Biblical
:|reference? Christians even recognize that Blue Laws are over the top, and
:|Fred suggested as much.
:|
Hey dummy
I posted a list of URls to articles about the history of such laws.
Stupid applies to you bird brain.
it's documented
I can always tell when I am getting under your skin as I have been recently
I can and do document your stupidity
You can't document anything
I have a very good reputation that is ten years old at least on here for
valuable posts and data, accurate, etc.
You have nothing but the following:
Just a small portion of Jeffy's track record:
Jeff Strickland displays his "intelligence and knowledge"
"Jeff Strickland" wrote:
:|But the Adams son was a child, or relative child, when the Adams father was
:|Prez.
ACTUAL FACTS:
John Adams 1735-1826.
President 1797-1801
John Q. Adams 1767-1848
President 1825-1829
J.Q. Adams was approx 30 years old when his father was elected president.
That hardly makes him a child or relative child
One more time jeffy dazzles us with his ignorance
********************************************************************
NOTE THE CONFUSION IN HIS OWN THINKING:
Not mandatory, but federal law permits, indeed it compels--or nearly
compels—
hehehehe
Jeffy strickland wrote
:|But reciting the Pledge is not a mandatory activity, the clients can opt out
:|of the daily exercise if they want to. Even Newdow's own daughter could opt
:|out, but he was not satisfied with that because she was still exposed to the
:|word, God coming from the other children.
:|
:|And Federal Law permits the recital of the Pledge, indeed it compels -- or
:|nearly compels -- the recital. State Education Code is attempting to follow
:|Federal Law in this regard.
ACTUAL FACTS:
Jeffy - I don't know sh*t about law - strickland messes up AGAIN
Ever hear of this before
http://66.34.103.193/ufc/Other/Gov-Religion/Pledge.htm
1943: The Supreme Court rules that students can not be forced to recite
the pledge. (West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette)
The USSC has also stated that "opting out, such as leaving the room, etc is
not acceptable.
************************************
Jeffy - I am "against" vouchers but I have offered every pro voucher
argument ever offered on the internet in voucher discussions for at least a
year to two years now - strickland
******************************************
[Jeffy had asked another]
Why do you feel the constant need to be nasty?
To you? Because you are an ignoramus who not only does not check his
facts, but posts endlessly repeating stuff that has been disproven
several times. You also seem to think that your unsupported opinion
is of interest to other people.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier,
**********************************
[To that I add]
Jeff - I don't have a clue what I am talking about, but I am good at
pretending and making it up as I go along so don't confuse me with the
facts, my mind is made up. I stereotype and prejudge. It has always worked
well in the past, why change now - Strickland
**********
Jeffy -- maybe, I heard, but didn't bother to do any independent research,
[ He says it gives him a headache] I like to believe things I want to hear.
I don't like knowing the facts if they aren't going to agree with what I
want to believe and I especially love passing along on the internet, as
facts, things I haven't a clue about their accuracy -- Strickland )
*******************************
[To Jeff Strickland]
I find it "interesting" that you are so incredibly stupid that you totally
missed the citation to the _New York Times_.
You seem to have remembered to take your one-a-day stupid pills.
Gray Shockley
**********
"Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think I see more intolerance.
"Gray Shockley" <gray-87a@cybercoffee.org> wrote in message
Oh, no, no, no.
You neither "think" nor "see".
Is that better?
*******************************
Jeff Strickland wrote:
I find it interesting that when Carol is unable to find the link, you ignore
the request for assistance. But, when I am unable to find the link (and
volunteer twice that I have looked), you jump in with a snide remark that
"the search was not too difficult," as though I am the idiot.
[Joni said]
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply you are an idiot. I meant to just
come right out and say you are an idiot.
**************************************
[another time Joni asked Jeffy]
Were you born this stupid or did you take a class?
**************************************
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:12:45 -0500, Jeff Strickland wrote
The ACLU is not mentioned in this story, but I believe they have been
mentioned in other stories on the same topic with the same county. Perhaps I
am being a bit reactionary to point my boney fingers at the ACLU,
You don't mind that some of us consider you a pschopathetic liar, do you?
After all, you seem to create "facts" just like your spiritual
great-great-great-great-great grandfather, Richard "I'll ***** You" Cheney.
Are you so [drunk, stoned, Bushed, freaked out] that you even realize how
much - and how many - of your posts are lies?
Are you truly stupid or totally insane?
Gray Shockley
**************************************
[jeffy was asked]
Can you back this up with truthful citations or is this just more of your
"lies manufactured especially for any and all occasions by Jeffie
Strickland"?
Gray Shockley
Vicksburg, MS
**************************************
As you, Jeffie the Wack Strickland, are quite obviously the product of no
education whatsoever.
Gray Shockley
**************************************
[jeffy had said]
It is the mother that has custodial and full guardianship
rights of the child. Newdow has no rights relative to this child and her
rearing.
YOU STUPID FUCKING ILLITERATE MORON, READ WHAT YOU AGREED
WITH EARLIER! THE COURTS HAVE RULED THAT NONCUSTODIAL
PARENTS **DO** HAVE RIGHTS TO THE RELIGIOUS UPBRINGING
OF THEIR CHILDREN, YOU BRAIN-DAMAGED TURD!
Merlyn LeRoy
*********************************************************
Said to Jeff Strickland
Because you are clueless, seeing an objection when there is none, and
failing to understand the objection that I do have.
Aren't you again showing your cluelessness? Yes.
lojbab
********************************************************
[Larry Hewitt said to Jeff Strickland]
Seeing that you deleted my links to the US census and a current news
report
that both proved you to be factually incorrect, I conclude that you
acknowledge your failure and chose to try to lie your way out of your
defeat.
larry
[jeff replied ]
Those links show NOTHING relative to this discussion.
[Larry naidled jeff with]
So you deleted them because you were afraid I was making a fool of myself
in
public, and you wanted to shield me from that humiliation??
Nah, you're just a rightard liar.
Larry
*********************************************************
Jeff Strickland said
Attack the messenger, never the message. How many times have I seen this
before?
Lots. Because you're a stupid *****.
I'm not even saying this to be insulting. You really are genuinely stupid.
You enter legal discussions without having the slightest idea of the legal
issues involved, and you show no signs of being educable.
Merlyn LeRoy
**************************************************************
Strickland said
Your language demonstrates a certain level of education in itself.
No, it demonstrates that I don't suffer fools gladly.
You demonstrate that you can't reason well, because
using phrases like "stupid *****" indicates nothing about
the speaker's education level.
Merlyn LeRoy
----------------------------------------------------
strickland
Because I take a position opposite of yours? That's rich.
No, because you're obviously stupid, and ignorant of how the courts
work, yet that doesn't stop you from shooting your mouth off.
You really are an ignorant *****.
Merlyn LeRoy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
strickland
Yeah, "ignorant *****" is precise. Idiot.
Yes, for you, it is. You shoot your mouth off in complete ignorance.
Repeatedly. You're an "ignorant *****".
Merlyn LeRoy
**************************************************************************
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| User: "Native American" |
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| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
01 Aug 2005 12:27:03 PM |
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<buckeye-Elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pese1tbii8ngoifvti75fj38d7qc5fr5n@4ax.com...
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
:|
:|First YOU need to tell us why YOU think the Bible is authoritative over
our
:|society.
You need to address that to Fred since he brought the bible into the mix
Nope, because that was my first post in this thread. If you don't think
the Bible is authoritative over your life or over society, then you make
yourself a buffoon by asking others to explain to you what the Bible says
about so-and-so.
--
Know the difference between a leftist and a potato? The difference is that
a potato will sprout, seek the sunlight and grow while a leftist will remain
buried in the dirt blaming everybody and everything but himself for his
situation.
- Steven Canyon
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
01 Aug 2005 11:01:27 PM |
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"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
<buckeye-Elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pese1tbii8ngoifvti75fj38d7qc5fr5n@4ax.com...
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
:|First YOU need to tell us why YOU think the Bible is authoritative over
our
:|society.
You need to address that to Fred since he brought the bible into the mix
Nope, because that was my first post in this thread. If you don't think
the Bible is authoritative over your life or over society, then you make
yourself a buffoon by asking others to explain to you what the Bible says
about so-and-so.
Not in the least. I can ask someone to explain a Shakespearian
passage to me without Shakespeare being authoritative in my life.
People can study the Bible as literature, as a (biased) historical
record, and as the representation of the theology of a group of
religious cults, all without requiring said Bible to be "authoritative
over their life or over society".
A devout Christian who accepts the Bible as an authority over his/her
life might still not see any justification for asserting that the
Bible has authority over our society, which is secular, and comprised
of people who believe a variety of different things.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
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| User: "Native American" |
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| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
02 Aug 2005 05:36:25 AM |
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"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:8nrte1p00mc668pe4jb9f7of589up558o5@4ax.com...
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
<buckeye-Elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pese1tbii8ngoifvti75fj38d7qc5fr5n@4ax.com...
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
:|First YOU need to tell us why YOU think the Bible is authoritative
over
our
:|society.
You need to address that to Fred since he brought the bible into the
mix
Nope, because that was my first post in this thread. If you don't think
the Bible is authoritative over your life or over society, then you make
yourself a buffoon by asking others to explain to you what the Bible says
about so-and-so.
Not in the least. I can ask someone to explain a Shakespearian
passage to me without Shakespeare being authoritative in my life.
Oh sure, you can ask someone to explain a Shakespearian passage to you
without Shakespeare being authoritative in your life, but of course it would
be a meaningless question for you to ask, precisely BECAUSE Shakespeare is
NOT authoritative in your life, and so whatever answer he might give to your
question about Shakespeare would be fine, since you don't care what
Shakespeare says anyways.
Thus you make yourself the buffoon by ASKING such meaningless questions,
Bob.
--
Conservatives see the United States as a great nation involved in a noble
cause of self-defense. Liberals are concerned about what our enemies think
of us, whether every government approves of our actions.
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Sabbath and "blue laws" |
02 Aug 2005 11:33:31 AM |
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"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> writes:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:8nrte1p00mc668pe4jb9f7of589up558o5@4ax.com...
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
<buckeye-Elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:2pese1tbii8ngoifvti75fj38d7qc5fr5n@4ax.com...
"Native American" <NativeAmerican@earthlink.net> wrote:
:|First YOU need to tell us why YOU think the Bible is authoritative
over
our
:|society.
You need to address that to Fred since he brought the bible into the
mix
Nope, because that was my first post in this thread. If you don't think
the Bible is authoritative over your life or over society, then you make
yourself a buffoon by asking others to explain to you what the Bible says
about so-and-so.
Not in the least. I can ask someone to explain a Shakespearian
passage to me without Shakespeare being authoritative in my life.
Oh sure, you can ask someone to explain a Shakespearian passage to you
without Shakespeare being authoritative in your life, but of course it would
be a meaningless question for you to ask, precisely BECAUSE Shakespeare is
NOT authoritative in your life, and so whatever answer he might give to your
question about Shakespeare would be fine, since you don't care what
Shakespeare says anyways.
No. One can most certainly have great interest in questions about Shakespeare
without having Shakespeare "be authoritative" in one's life. I personally
am quite intrested in the possible anti-Semitic implications of the way
that Act 4, Scene 2 of "The Merchant of Venice" plays out. I am even
more interested in whether Shakespeare intended Hamlet's irresolution
to arise from an uncertainty in whether he had actually seen the ghost
of his father or whether what he had seen was in truth "...the devil: and
the devil hath power to assume a pleasing shape; yea, and perhaps out
of my weakness and my melancholy, as he is very potent with such spirits,
abuses me to damn me".
And it is quite untrue that any answer "would be fine", because I have
seen some utterly unsupportable but politically correct answers to the
first question, and some even more absurd speculations on the second.
(and then there's Harold Bloom...) One does not have to be a
scholar of Shakespeare to be able to read, nor to be able to
recognize evasive or illogical argumentation.
I can also ask a Muslim who approves of terrorism to show me support
for such an attitude in the Q'ran, just as I can ask the Figh Council
of North America, regarding their recent fatwa condemning terrorism,
to explain their take on the very same ayats. And I can do this without
regarding the Q'ra | | | | | | | |
