Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy Comes True In Our Times



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Voice of Truth"
Date: 20 Oct 2004 08:02:39 PM
Object: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy Comes True In Our Times
Sanhedrin Launched In Tiberias (Jewish Supreme Court Relaunched after
1600 years)
Arutz Sheva
28 Tishrei 5765 (October 13, 2004)
A unique ceremony - probably only the 2nd of its kind in the past
1,600 years - took place in Tiberias today: The launching of a
Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish-legal tribunal in the Land of Israel.
A unique ceremony - probably only the second of its kind in the past
1,600 years - is taking place in Tiberias today: The launching of a
Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish-legal tribunal in the Land of Israel.
The Sanhedrin, a religious assembly that convened in one of the Holy
Temple chambers in Jerusalem, comprised 71 sages and existed during
the Tannaitic period, from several decades before the Common Era until
roughly 425 C.E. Details of today's ceremony are still sketchy, but
the organizers' announced their intention to convene 71 rabbis who
have received special rabbinic ordination as specified by Maimonides.
An attempt to reconvene the Sanhedrin was made several centuries ago
in Tzfat. The body in fact ordained such greats as Rabbi Yosef Karo,
the author of the classic Jewish Law code Shulhan Arukh. However, the
opposition of other leading rabbis soon forced the end of the
endeavor.
One of the leaders of today's attempt to revive the Sanhedrin is Rabbi
Yeshai Ba'avad of Beit El. He said that the 71 rabbis "from across the
spectrum received the special ordination, in accordance with
Maimonides' rulings, over the past several months." Rabbi Ba'avad
explained that the membership of the new body is not permanent: "What
is much more crucial is the establishment of this body. Those who are
members of it today will not necessarily be its members tomorrow. But
the goal is to have one rabbinic body in Jerusalem that will convene
monthly and issue rulings on central issues. This is the need of the
generation and of the hour."
Rabbi Yisrael Ariel, who heads the Temple institute in Jerusalem, is
one of the participating rabbis. He told Arutz-7 today, "Whether this
will be the actual Sanhedrin that we await, is a question of time -
just like the establishment of the State; we rejoiced in it, but we
are still awaiting something much more ideal. It's a process. Today's
ceremony is really the continuation of the renewal of the Ordination
process in Israel, which we marked several months ago. Our Talmudic
Sages describe the ten stages of exile of the Sanhedrin from Jerusalem
to other locations, until it ended in Tiberias - and this is the place
where it was foretold that it would be renewed, and from here it will
be relocated to Jerusalem."
Rabbi Ariel said that the rabbis there included many from the entire
spectrum: "Hareidi, religious-Zionist, Sephardi, Ashkenazi, hassidi,
and many others - such as Rabbi Yoel Schwartz, Rabbi Adin Shteinzaltz,
and many others... We can't expect a great consensus; that's not how
things work here. But sometimes that's how the process goes, from the
bottom up."
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-religion/1244104/posts
Please forward this letter to every G-d fearing Jew you know.

Dear friends and family,
I have the privilege of sharing with you what is in my opinion the
greatest
news in the history of the Jewish People since the downfall of Hitler.
As
we all know, 56 years ago, Jews from every corner of the globe came
together
under a secular political union, largely dominated by an elitist,
secular
Ashkenazi government. As much as it provided a physical haven for
Jews all
over the world, it became a black hole into which non-Ashkenazi and
Hareidi
Jews were assimilated and persecuted and many thousands of Middle
Eastern
Jews lost their religious identity altogether. Fifty-six years later,
the
rifts in our society have shifted, but are still deep and painful.
Until
now, we have remained a poorly united collection of groups and
ideologies
who only come together in times when war threatens our very existence.
Until
last week, that is... Last Tuesday, a courageous group of 71 Jewish
scholars of all streams--Hassidic, Misnaged, Sephardi-Hareidi,
Zionist,
National-Hareidi, Yemenite and New Age--joined together, reinstituting
the
Great Sanhedrin of Israel. In short, last week, the Jews--although
they may
not know it yet--became a single People, under a G-dfearing High
Court.
Through their vision and action, we--as a People--are finally
fulfilling the
positive Torah Commandment that obligates us as a nation to establish
the
Sanhedrin.
The current members of the Sanhedrin are an incredible example of
Jewish
unity. Despite their widely varying kipot, costumes, customs and
world
views, what unites them is great:
* their achievement in Torah,
* their reputations in their respective circles and communities,
* their great love for the entire Jewish nation,
* their belief in taking initiative to bring the Final Redemption
closer,
* their courage and willingness to sacrifice their careers and
reputations,
for no salary whatsoever.
The reinstatement ceremony was carried out in Tiberias, according to
the
teaching of the Rambam, that the Sanhedrin will one day be renewed in
Tiberias, just where it was last disbanded nearly 1600 years ago, in
about
425 C.E. I am acquainted with and know second-hand about a number of
special personalities on the Sanhedrin HaGadol. For those of us who
love
and live authentic Torah Judaism, it's an all-star team:
1) Ribbi Avraham Toledano is a great scholar of Rambam, as well as a
Breslover Hasid, and dear friend of my primary teacher Mori Shelomo.
2) Ribbi Adin Steinsaltz is the brilliant, renowned author of a
world-famous
commentary on the Babylonian Talmud, in modern Hebrew and English. He
is
certainly one of the foremost Talmudic scholars of our generation.
3) Ribbi Yoseph Maghory-Kohen is functionally the chief rabbi of
Kokhav
Ya'aqov, a growing settlement town, north of Jerusalem. His family is
one
of the only priestly families with an authentic, written pedigree,
proving
its direct patrilineal descent to Yehoyariv, a priestly clan expressly
mentioned in the Bible.
4) Ribbi Barukh Marzel is a brave and popular leader from Qiryath
Arba'
(Hebron). He is a Torah scholar, as well as a national figure and
symbol of
Jewish pride in the face of Arab terror. He is famous for his
courageous
run in the last elections, against a sea of opposition.
5) Ribbi Nahman Kahana (brother of the late, great rabbi): What an
honor to
Rav Meir's memory, HaShem yinqom damo, that his brother sits on the
Sanhedrin he never lived to see.
6) Ribbi Tzvi Shani-Dor is what we call a maqorist: an independent
Torah
scholar whose opinions are derived directly from a deep knowledge of
the
Talmudic sources. His great knowledge is joined with a liberal,
Hassidic
outlook. He is a consistent member of our local Rambam minyan, and a
personal friend.
7) Ribbi Yoseph Rotshtein is a progessive, Hassidic, maqorist rabbi
and a
poseq. He is a master of Talmud Yerushalmi, and an idealist who
refuses to
make a living from learning, as the Rambam teaches.
8) Ribbi Elimelech Leifer, is a bold maqorist. He is a Nadvorna
Hasid, and
grandson of the great Admo"r Mi-Nadvorna, the famous Nadvorna Rebbe of
blessed memory. An ardent truth seeker in a highly traditional
community in
which independent thinking is discouraged, Ribbi Leifer adopted
authentic
Yemenite pronunciation (lashon ha-qodash), and wears tephillin
throughout
the day.
9) Ribbi Yisrael Ariel is the head of Machon HaMiqdash (The Holy
Temple) and
considered to be the world's greatest expert on all matters relating
to the
Beith HaMiqdash. Under his guidance, many vessels were restored for
use in
the Third Temple, including the golden Menorah and ShulHan. His
famous
institute is presently involved with recreating the Breast Plate of
the High
Priest.
Ribbi Dov Shtein, secretary of the Great Sanhedrin, has been working
hard on
the renewing the Court for the last 20 years. As webmaster of
WWW.BEITH-DIN.COM, he illuminated readers with his insight. His faith
and
efforts have finally paid off.
11) Ribbi Yehudah 'Edri, the actual prime initiator of the
Reinstitution,
is an accomplished author and leader of the Movement for the
Rebuilding of
the Temple.
And finally...
12) His Honor the Nassi, Rabban Tzvi 'Idan, Rosh HaSanhedrin! He is
the
founder and long-time head of a kollel of Torah scholars, dedicated to
the
renewal of the Sanhedrin. He is the author of the "bible" on
Sanhedrin
renewal, Assoth Mishpat: Hiddush Ha-Semikhah Bizeman Hazzeh" ("To
Exercise
Law: Renewing True Rabbincal Ordination in This Era"), After 25 years
of
work, his dream has come to fruition, and HaShem has rewarded him with
the
Nesi'uth--the Presidency!
In truth, Rabban 'Idan is functioning as an interim Nassi until a
permanent
Nassi is elected. Currently, he acts as chairman of the organization.
Everyone must know with certainty that the new Sanedrin is absolutely
legitimate and serious. There is no aparrent reason why the rest of
the
Jewish nation should not accept their rule: Rav 'Ovadiah Yoseph was
filmed
expressing his hasqamah (validation) and giving his berakhah
(blessing). In
fact, both Rav 'Ovadiah and Rav Elyashiv personally ordained the rabbi
who
was to confer semikhah (ordination) upon Rabban Tzvi. Rav Kaminetsky
gave
his hasqamah and blessing as well. These facts have been verified;
they are
not rumors.
At present, the Sanhedrin is not entirely composed of those truly
fitting to
be there. However, the Sages assumed their seats on condition that
they are
ready to give them up to anyone greater in wisdom. That is but one
expression of incredible humility and feeling of fellowship and
brotherhood
that marked the reinstatement ceremony, according to Eliyahu Levine,
one
observer who travelled from Beit Shemesh to witness the event.
G-dwilling,
the Sanhedrin will soon be completely filled with the greatest,
highest-ranking Torah scholars of the nation.
What issues will the Great Sanhedrin tackle? In his inaugural
address, the
Nassi declared his solemn dedication to finally tearing down all
barriers
between the 'edoth, the various ethnic groups (Sephardi, Ashkenazi,
etc.).
This could mean the synthesis of a common prayer service for all, and
the
annulment of various customs that divide observant Jews.
Several ordained members have mentioned the following issues:

* The establishment what is the authentic "tekheleth" the biblical
blue
thread we are commanded to have among our Sziszith strings.
* The final defininition of the measurement of the "ammah" (the
biblical
measument of the "arm-length"). This would is the first step in
rebuilding
the Holy Altar.
* Determining what the exact point of human death is, so as to deal
with the
ethics of euthanasia.
* The tragic issue of agunoth--women who are prisoners of cruel
husbands who
will neither provide their needs, nor agree to grant them a divorce.
The new Great Sanhedrin faces a hard road ahead. There is sure to be
opposition from Kashrut organizations, fanatical religious sects, and
the
secular government. There are logistics to work out, including
organizing
the 71 sages into think tanks, and producing a unified vote on the
issues
they face. The prime organizers need to determine how the most basic
decisions will be made. For example, a delicate balance must be
achieved
between accepting representatives of the major halakhic posqim (so as
not to
incur their opposition), while still preserving the unique
progressive,
authentic spirit required of a High Court that will lead the Jewish
People
into the Temple and Messianic Age, G-dwilling.
The Sanhedrin's success depends on the absolute allegiance of every
Jewish
individual, particularly our rabbis. Our unswerving allegiance is no
less
than both a positive and negative Commandment from the Torah itself.
To
obey everything they command, and not turn right or left from their
legislation. The anhedrin further requires donations, and good,
old-fashioned praise and encouragement. To find out what you can do
to get
involved in your community, call the Sanhedrin Secretary, Ribbi Dov
Shtein
at 02-566-1962.
In our community in Ramath Beith Shemesh, we are working hard towards
the
establishment of the first Sanhedria Qetanah (local High Court) of 23
Sages,
a Torah requirement for every city in Israel. Next moSaei Shabboth, 5
rabbanim musmakhim--Ribbi Elimelekh, Ribbi Yoseph, Ribbi Tzvi, Ribbi
'Edri,
and the Nassi himself will be speaking at a large information
gathering in
Ohel Moshe, our Rambam center in Beith Shemesh. For me personally, I
can
hardly contain my joy and excitement. It feels like I'm living in a
dreamland. For so long we've prayed so hard for the Sanhedrin to come
together... When reciting the Birkath HaMazon, I would insert by
"HaRaHaman
hu yezaqeinu Liyemoth HaMoshiaH--ul-Hidush HaSanhedrin--ul-Binyan
Beith
Ha-Miqdash..."! And now HaShem has given me this opportunity to be
involved
in augmenting their honor... It is the greatest honor of my life.
BaAhavath Yisrael,

Michael Shelomo Bar-Ron
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=ckuvp2%24n7b%241%40falcon.steinthal.us
.

User: "Deja Vu"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy Comes True In Our Times 27 Nov 2004 05:43:06 AM
Is this for real? If so, things are looking really scary !
If you wanted to know what is this Third Temple and Armageddon stuff about,
read this:
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j041502.html
voiceoftruth227@hotmail.com (Voice of Truth) wrote:

Sanhedrin Launched In Tiberias (Jewish Supreme Court Relaunched after
1600 years)


Arutz Sheva

28 Tishrei 5765 (October 13, 2004)



A unique ceremony - probably only the 2nd of its kind in the past
1,600 years - took place in Tiberias today: The launching of a
Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish-legal tribunal in the Land of Israel.

A unique ceremony - probably only the second of its kind in the past
1,600 years - is taking place in Tiberias today: The launching of a
Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish-legal tribunal in the Land of Israel.

The Sanhedrin, a religious assembly that convened in one of the Holy
Temple chambers in Jerusalem, comprised 71 sages and existed during
the Tannaitic period, from several decades before the Common Era until
roughly 425 C.E. Details of today's ceremony are still sketchy, but
the organizers' announced their intention to convene 71 rabbis who
have received special rabbinic ordination as specified by Maimonides.

An attempt to reconvene the Sanhedrin was made several centuries ago
in Tzfat. The body in fact ordained such greats as Rabbi Yosef Karo,
the author of the classic Jewish Law code Shulhan Arukh. However, the
opposition of other leading rabbis soon forced the end of the
endeavor.

One of the leaders of today's attempt to revive the Sanhedrin is Rabbi
Yeshai Ba'avad of Beit El. He said that the 71 rabbis "from across the
spectrum received the special ordination, in accordance with
Maimonides' rulings, over the past several months." Rabbi Ba'avad
explained that the membership of the new body is not permanent: "What
is much more crucial is the establishment of this body. Those who are
members of it today will not necessarily be its members tomorrow. But
the goal is to have one rabbinic body in Jerusalem that will convene
monthly and issue rulings on central issues. This is the need of the
generation and of the hour."

Rabbi Yisrael Ariel, who heads the Temple institute in Jerusalem, is
one of the participating rabbis. He told Arutz-7 today, "Whether this
will be the actual Sanhedrin that we await, is a question of time -
just like the establishment of the State; we rejoiced in it, but we
are still awaiting something much more ideal. It's a process. Today's
ceremony is really the continuation of the renewal of the Ordination
process in Israel, which we marked several months ago. Our Talmudic
Sages describe the ten stages of exile of the Sanhedrin from Jerusalem
to other locations, until it ended in Tiberias - and this is the place
where it was foretold that it would be renewed, and from here it will
be relocated to Jerusalem."

Rabbi Ariel said that the rabbis there included many from the entire
spectrum: "Hareidi, religious-Zionist, Sephardi, Ashkenazi, hassidi,
and many others - such as Rabbi Yoel Schwartz, Rabbi Adin Shteinzaltz,
and many others... We can't expect a great consensus; that's not how
things work here. But sometimes that's how the process goes, from the
bottom up."


http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-religion/1244104/posts





Please forward this letter to every G-d fearing Jew you know.

Dear friends and family,

I have the privilege of sharing with you what is in my opinion the
greatest
news in the history of the Jewish People since the downfall of Hitler.
As
we all know, 56 years ago, Jews from every corner of the globe came
together
under a secular political union, largely dominated by an elitist,
secular
Ashkenazi government. As much as it provided a physical haven for
Jews all
over the world, it became a black hole into which non-Ashkenazi and
Hareidi
Jews were assimilated and persecuted and many thousands of Middle
Eastern
Jews lost their religious identity altogether. Fifty-six years later,
the
rifts in our society have shifted, but are still deep and painful.
Until
now, we have remained a poorly united collection of groups and
ideologies
who only come together in times when war threatens our very existence.
Until
last week, that is... Last Tuesday, a courageous group of 71 Jewish
scholars of all streams--Hassidic, Misnaged, Sephardi-Hareidi,
Zionist,
National-Hareidi, Yemenite and New Age--joined together, reinstituting
the
Great Sanhedrin of Israel. In short, last week, the Jews--although
they may
not know it yet--became a single People, under a G-dfearing High
Court.
Through their vision and action, we--as a People--are finally
fulfilling the
positive Torah Commandment that obligates us as a nation to establish
the
Sanhedrin.

The current members of the Sanhedrin are an incredible example of
Jewish
unity. Despite their widely varying kipot, costumes, customs and
world
views, what unites them is great:

* their achievement in Torah,

* their reputations in their respective circles and communities,

* their great love for the entire Jewish nation,

* their belief in taking initiative to bring the Final Redemption
closer,

* their courage and willingness to sacrifice their careers and
reputations,
for no salary whatsoever.


The reinstatement ceremony was carried out in Tiberias, according to
the
teaching of the Rambam, that the Sanhedrin will one day be renewed in
Tiberias, just where it was last disbanded nearly 1600 years ago, in
about
425 C.E. I am acquainted with and know second-hand about a number of
special personalities on the Sanhedrin HaGadol. For those of us who
love
and live authentic Torah Judaism, it's an all-star team:


1) Ribbi Avraham Toledano is a great scholar of Rambam, as well as a
Breslover Hasid, and dear friend of my primary teacher Mori Shelomo.

2) Ribbi Adin Steinsaltz is the brilliant, renowned author of a
world-famous
commentary on the Babylonian Talmud, in modern Hebrew and English. He
is
certainly one of the foremost Talmudic scholars of our generation.

3) Ribbi Yoseph Maghory-Kohen is functionally the chief rabbi of
Kokhav
Ya'aqov, a growing settlement town, north of Jerusalem. His family is
one
of the only priestly families with an authentic, written pedigree,
proving
its direct patrilineal descent to Yehoyariv, a priestly clan expressly
mentioned in the Bible.

4) Ribbi Barukh Marzel is a brave and popular leader from Qiryath
Arba'
(Hebron). He is a Torah scholar, as well as a national figure and
symbol of
Jewish pride in the face of Arab terror. He is famous for his
courageous
run in the last elections, against a sea of opposition.

5) Ribbi Nahman Kahana (brother of the late, great rabbi): What an
honor to
Rav Meir's memory, HaShem yinqom damo, that his brother sits on the
Sanhedrin he never lived to see.

6) Ribbi Tzvi Shani-Dor is what we call a maqorist: an independent
Torah
scholar whose opinions are derived directly from a deep knowledge of
the
Talmudic sources. His great knowledge is joined with a liberal,
Hassidic
outlook. He is a consistent member of our local Rambam minyan, and a
personal friend.

7) Ribbi Yoseph Rotshtein is a progessive, Hassidic, maqorist rabbi
and a
poseq. He is a master of Talmud Yerushalmi, and an idealist who
refuses to
make a living from learning, as the Rambam teaches.

8) Ribbi Elimelech Leifer, is a bold maqorist. He is a Nadvorna
Hasid, and
grandson of the great Admo"r Mi-Nadvorna, the famous Nadvorna Rebbe of
blessed memory. An ardent truth seeker in a highly traditional
community in
which independent thinking is discouraged, Ribbi Leifer adopted
authentic
Yemenite pronunciation (lashon ha-qodash), and wears tephillin
throughout
the day.

9) Ribbi Yisrael Ariel is the head of Machon HaMiqdash (The Holy
Temple) and
considered to be the world's greatest expert on all matters relating
to the
Beith HaMiqdash. Under his guidance, many vessels were restored for
use in
the Third Temple, including the golden Menorah and ShulHan. His
famous
institute is presently involved with recreating the Breast Plate of
the High
Priest.

Ribbi Dov Shtein, secretary of the Great Sanhedrin, has been working
hard on
the renewing the Court for the last 20 years. As webmaster of
WWW.BEITH-DIN.COM, he illuminated readers with his insight. His faith
and
efforts have finally paid off.

11) Ribbi Yehudah 'Edri, the actual prime initiator of the
Reinstitution,
is an accomplished author and leader of the Movement for the
Rebuilding of
the Temple.

And finally...

12) His Honor the Nassi, Rabban Tzvi 'Idan, Rosh HaSanhedrin! He is
the
founder and long-time head of a kollel of Torah scholars, dedicated to
the
renewal of the Sanhedrin. He is the author of the "bible" on
Sanhedrin
renewal, Assoth Mishpat: Hiddush Ha-Semikhah Bizeman Hazzeh" ("To
Exercise
Law: Renewing True Rabbincal Ordination in This Era"), After 25 years
of
work, his dream has come to fruition, and HaShem has rewarded him with
the
Nesi'uth--the Presidency!

In truth, Rabban 'Idan is functioning as an interim Nassi until a
permanent
Nassi is elected. Currently, he acts as chairman of the organization.

Everyone must know with certainty that the new Sanedrin is absolutely
legitimate and serious. There is no aparrent reason why the rest of
the
Jewish nation should not accept their rule: Rav 'Ovadiah Yoseph was
filmed
expressing his hasqamah (validation) and giving his berakhah
(blessing). In
fact, both Rav 'Ovadiah and Rav Elyashiv personally ordained the rabbi
who
was to confer semikhah (ordination) upon Rabban Tzvi. Rav Kaminetsky
gave
his hasqamah and blessing as well. These facts have been verified;
they are
not rumors.

At present, the Sanhedrin is not entirely composed of those truly

.
User: "James A. Donald"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy Comes True In Our Times 27 Nov 2004 02:39:03 PM
--
On 27 Nov 2004 11:43:06 GMT, Deja Vu <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Is this for real? If so, things are looking really scary !

Not so scary. I almost fell out of my chair laughing.
If radical Islamists have a problem because they are
theoretically committed to resurrecting a system of laws frozen
nine hundred years ago, that is nothing to the pickle believing
Jews will be in if they attempt to resurrect a system of
authority from nineteen hundred years ago.
They are going to need a Messiah to issue an update.
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
FDE5CdTT3/xj53Pe9yoAs8qbYqDFkFE3YMTXOkUS
4Umpyl7pGqTK3wW9P/fM0drQaTR5NwE1vx5XUPmDF
.
User: "Mary Hogan"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy Comes True In Our Times 27 Nov 2004 06:26:39 PM
Clueless and mindless person with nothing better to do than...blab.
"James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:voohq01qn1fovrr4cfh1ho2bd8pr1g5j4o@4ax.com...

--
On 27 Nov 2004 11:43:06 GMT, Deja Vu <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Is this for real? If so, things are looking really scary !


Not so scary. I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

If radical Islamists have a problem because they are
theoretically committed to resurrecting a system of laws frozen
nine hundred years ago, that is nothing to the pickle believing
Jews will be in if they attempt to resurrect a system of
authority from nineteen hundred years ago.

They are going to need a Messiah to issue an update.

--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
FDE5CdTT3/xj53Pe9yoAs8qbYqDFkFE3YMTXOkUS
4Umpyl7pGqTK3wW9P/fM0drQaTR5NwE1vx5XUPmDF

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.

User: "Matt Giwer"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy ComesTrue In Our Times 27 Nov 2004 09:12:46 PM
James A. Donald wrote:

--
On 27 Nov 2004 11:43:06 GMT, Deja Vu <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Is this for real? If so, things are looking really scary !

Not so scary. I almost fell out of my chair laughing.
If radical Islamists have a problem because they are
theoretically committed to resurrecting a system of laws frozen
nine hundred years ago, that is nothing to the pickle believing
Jews will be in if they attempt to resurrect a system of
authority from nineteen hundred years ago.
They are going to need a Messiah to issue an update.

That legal system was active in the ghettos until the late 1800s in
eastern Europe. And the yiddish court decisions were backed by the
civil power in the matter of fines and with sufficient bribes the
death penalty.
--
Democracy grows from the barrel of a gun. -- G.W. Bush
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3291
.


User: "William Black"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy Comes True In Our Times 27 Nov 2004 12:06:07 PM
"Deja Vu" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:30r7i9F300va7U1@uni-berlin.de...

Is this for real? If so, things are looking really scary !

If you wanted to know what is this Third Temple and Armageddon stuff

about,

read this:
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j041502.html

It's bollocks.
The religious parties in Israel may have some MPs but the power is firmly in
the hands of secular leaders, and likely to remain so.
---
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
I've seen the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
Time for tea
.
User: "Riain Y. Barton"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy Comes True In Our Times 27 Nov 2004 01:09:54 PM
Unless the Sanhedrin includes all "sects/denominations" of Judaism, it will
be considered INVALID by the majority of Jews around the world -- as the
majority of us are not Orthodox.
"William Black" <abuse@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:coafjb$m85$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
|
| "Deja Vu" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
| news:30r7i9F300va7U1@uni-berlin.de...
| > Is this for real? If so, things are looking really scary !
| >
| > If you wanted to know what is this Third Temple and Armageddon stuff
| about,
| > read this:
| > http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j041502.html
|
| It's bollocks.
|
| The religious parties in Israel may have some MPs but the power is firmly
in
| the hands of secular leaders, and likely to remain so.
|
|
| ---
| William Black
|
| I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
| Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
| I've seen the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
| All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
| Time for tea
|
|
.

User: "Matt Giwer"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy ComesTrue In Our Times 27 Nov 2004 09:10:03 PM
William Black wrote:

"Deja Vu" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:30r7i9F300va7U1@uni-berlin.de...

Is this for real? If so, things are looking really scary !
If you wanted to know what is this Third Temple and Armageddon stuff about,
read this:
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j041502.html

It's bollocks.

The religious parties in Israel may have some MPs but the power is firmly in
the hands of secular leaders, and likely to remain so.

Likely isn't good enough. Consider 200+ nukes falling into the hands
of religious cranks and fanatics? According to their statements
published in Israeli newspapers they make Iran's mullahs appear like
moderates. Their "liberal" compromise for women is permitting the face
to go uncovered but wigs are still mandatory.
Is it worth the risk?
--
I prefer free enterprise to capitalism. Most people do.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3281
.
User: "tiglath"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy Comes True In Our Times 28 Nov 2004 06:44:35 PM
"Matt Giwer" <jull43@tampabay.rOAr.com> wrote in message
news:fkbqd.92696$6w6.24027@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...


Likely isn't good enough. Consider 200+ nukes falling into the hands
of religious cranks and fanatics? According to their statements
published in Israeli newspapers they make Iran's mullahs appear like
moderates. Their "liberal" compromise for women is permitting the face
to go uncovered but wigs are still mandatory.

After seeing your picture I think that it should be mandatory for you to
wear a burqa.
.
User: "Matt Giwer"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical Prophecy ComesTrue In Our Times 29 Nov 2004 07:25:45 PM
tiglath wrote:

"Matt Giwer" <jull43@tampabay.rOAr.com> wrote in message
news:fkbqd.92696$6w6.24027@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...

Likely isn't good enough. Consider 200+ nukes falling into the hands
of religious cranks and fanatics? According to their statements
published in Israeli newspapers they make Iran's mullahs appear like
moderates. Their "liberal" compromise for women is permitting the face
to go uncovered but wigs are still mandatory.

After seeing your picture I think that it should be mandatory for you to
wear a burqa.

Antizionism is a moral imperative.
--
There are only two certainties in this world,
death and taxes. Leave it to an ignorant
carpenter's son to triumph over the wrong one.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3271
.
User: "Michael W Cook"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComes True In Our Times 30 Nov 2004 05:02:07 PM
On 30/11/04 1:25 am, in article
t_Pqd.84277$8G4.4359@tornado.tampabay.rr.com, "Matt Giwer"
<jull43@tampabay.rOAr.com> wrote:

tiglath wrote:

"Matt Giwer" <jull43@tampabay.rOAr.com> wrote in message
news:fkbqd.92696$6w6.24027@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...


Likely isn't good enough. Consider 200+ nukes falling into the hands
of religious cranks and fanatics? According to their statements
published in Israeli newspapers they make Iran's mullahs appear like
moderates. Their "liberal" compromise for women is permitting the face
to go uncovered but wigs are still mandatory.


After seeing your picture I think that it should be mandatory for you to
wear a burqa.


Antizionism is a moral imperative.

What about anti-Semitism, Matt ?
However, given the crimes that can be attributed to Zionism, then one can
only syllogize that anti-Zionism is a moral obligation to all, including all
Jews.
MWC
.
User: "Riain Y. Barton"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComes True In Our Times 30 Nov 2004 08:17:30 PM
Being Anti-Zionist is being Anti-Jewish, they are one and the same.
And what you, a Jew-Hating ***** is saying is that the Jewish people are not
entitled to their own homeland, their own state, and should be a stateless
people, who cannot decide their own destiny.
"Michael W Cook" <nuffspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BDD2ACDF.7F14%nuffspam@hotmail.com...
| On 30/11/04 1:25 am, in article
| t_Pqd.84277$8G4.4359@tornado.tampabay.rr.com, "Matt Giwer"
| <jull43@tampabay.rOAr.com> wrote:
|
| > tiglath wrote:
| >> "Matt Giwer" <jull43@tampabay.rOAr.com> wrote in message
| >> news:fkbqd.92696$6w6.24027@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
| >
| >>> Likely isn't good enough. Consider 200+ nukes falling into the hands
| >>> of religious cranks and fanatics? According to their statements
| >>> published in Israeli newspapers they make Iran's mullahs appear like
| >>> moderates. Their "liberal" compromise for women is permitting the face
| >>> to go uncovered but wigs are still mandatory.
| >
| >> After seeing your picture I think that it should be mandatory for you
to
| >> wear a burqa.
| >
| > Antizionism is a moral imperative.
|
| What about anti-Semitism, Matt ?
|
| However, given the crimes that can be attributed to Zionism, then one can
| only syllogize that anti-Zionism is a moral obligation to all, including
all
| Jews.
|
| MWC
|
.
User: "Hypatia Kosh"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComes True In Our Times 01 Dec 2004 01:59:32 PM
"Riain Y. Barton" <riain@riain.us> wrote in message news:<rq2dnU1jC-x0tTDcRVn-qA@comcast.com>...

Being Anti-Zionist is being Anti-Jewish, they are one and the same.

*****. Zionism is the assertion that God gave Palestine to the Jews
forever and that they have a God-given right to drive out by any means
(including killing) anyone else who might be living there. You don't
have to be anti-Jewish (in fact, I'm rather pro-Jew) to reject that.

And what you, a Jew-Hating ***** is saying is that the Jewish people are not
entitled to their own homeland, their own state, and should be a stateless
people, who cannot decide their own destiny.

Rejecting Zionism does not mean not recognizing Israel and its right
to exist. It does mean rejecting the argument that:
1. There is a God
2. God chose the Jewish people above all others, and
3. God says they get this particular piece of desert real estate and
everybody else has to leave
4. God's commands trump international law and the Universal
Declaration of the Rights of Man
I reject all four premises. 4 on basis of might doesn't make right, 3
and 2 on basis of according to very reliable reports God tells every
dirtbag ethnic group similar tales so all these stupid claims cancel
each other out, 1 (and most strongly) on basis of complete lack of
evidence.
I support the existence of Israel. I don't support the extermination
of the Palestinians, and I don't accept Zionism or any other brand of
Theism.

-Hypatia
.
User: "Riain Y. Barton"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComes True In Our Times 01 Dec 2004 08:50:35 PM
Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their
homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel,
advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of
all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the
Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led
to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient
homeland was attained. The term "Zionism" was coined in 1890 by Nathan
Birnbaum.
Jews who criticize or oppose Zionism are usually Orthodox and maintain that
Israel can only be regained miraculously. They view the present state as a
blasphemous human attempt to usurp G­d's role, and they work to dismantle
Israel. However, unlike many gentile anti­Zionists, they firmly believe in
the Jewish right to Israel, but only at that future time of redemption. The
best­known of the religious anti­Zionists are the Neturei Karta.
Two common religious grounds are typically given for anti­Zionism. One is
that today's Zionism is a secular Zionism, packed with non­Jewish
influences, and lacking key features like Moshiach and the rebuilt Temple.
Adherents to this position are more on the non­Zionist rather than
anti­Zionist side. The other reason is that the Talmud (Meseches Kesuvos,
111a), as part of a discussion of certain Torah verses mentioning oaths,
states that when Israel went into the second exile, there were three vows
between Heaven and Earth:
1. Israel would not "go up like a wall" [conquer Eretz Yisrael by massive
force].
2. G­d made Israel swear that they would not rebel against the nations of
the world [would obey the governments in the exile].
3. G­d made the non­Jews swear not to oppress Israel "too much"
[translation of phrase yoter midai].
Groups accepting these positions are more on the anti­Zionist side.
The religious counter­reply to the above is that secular Zionism is a
preliminary stage of religious Zionism, and that the vows no longer apply
since the gentiles violated their part (by such actions as the Roman
persecutions, the Spanish Inquisition and the Nazi Holocaust). The Balfour
Declaration of 1917 and the United Nations partition vote of 1947 are also
regarded as having given permission to the Jews to reestablish the state by
the non­Jewish rulers of the area. Once this permission was granted it could
not be revoked. It should also be noted that the oaths cited above are only
mentioned as a side point in one place in a discussion in the Gemara, and as
the viewpoint of an individual. Many people feel that they do not apply in
any case.
Some Religious Zionist Jews see the formation of the secular state as
accelerating the process of redemption, with themselves playing a major role
in doing G­d's will by serving the state, whose creation is often seen as
miraculous.
So­called "non­Zionist" Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical
standpoint-as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness
well­suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious
significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects
of its secular culture.
In the late 19th century, the rise of religious and racist anti-Semitism led
to a resurgence of pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe, shattering promises
of equality and tolerance. This stimulated Jewish immigration to Palestine
from Europe.
Simultaneously, a wave of Jews immigrated to Palestine from Yemen, Morocco,
Iraq and Turkey. These Jews were unaware of Theodor Herzl's political
Zionism or of European pogroms. They were motivated by the centuries-old
dream of the “Return to Zion” and a fear of intolerance. Upon hearing that
the gates of Palestine were open, they braved the hardships of travel and
went to the “Land of Israel.”
The Zionist ideal of a return to Israel has profound religious roots. Many
Jewish prayers speak of Jerusalem, Zion and the Land of Israel. The
injunction not to forget Jerusalem, the site of the Temple, is a major tenet
of Judaism. The Hebrew language, the Torah, laws in the Talmud, the Jewish
calendar and Jewish holidays and festivals such as Shavuot all originated in
Israel and revolve around its seasons and conditions. Jews pray toward
Jerusalem and recite the words “next year in Jerusalem” every Passover.
Jewish religion, culture and history make clear that it is only in the land
of Israel that the Jewish commonwealth can be built.
In 1897, Jewish leaders formally organized the Zionist movement, calling for
the restoration of the Jewish national home in Palestine, where Jews could
find sanctuary and self-determination, and work for the renascence of their
civilization and culture.
General Zionism was initially the term used for the beliefs of all members
of the Zionist Organization [ZO] who had not joined a specific faction or
party ­ belonging to their countrywide Zionist organizations only. Over the
years, the General Zionists, too, created ideological institutions and
joined the Organization of General Zionists, established in 1922 as a
centrist party in the ZO. The precepts of the General Zionists included
Basle­style Zionism free of ideological embellishments and the primacy of
Zionism over any class, party, or personal interest. This party, in its many
metamorphoses, championed causes such as the encouragement of private
initiative and protection of middle­class rights. In 1931, the General
Zionists split into Factions A and B as a result of disagreements over
issues of concern in Palestine: social affairs, economic matters, the
attitude toward the General Federation of Jewish Labor (the Histadrut), etc.
In 1945, the factions reunited.
Most of Israel's Liberal movements and parties were formed under the
inspiration of the General Zionists and reflect mergers in and secessions
from this movement.
“Colonialism means living by exploiting others,” Yehoshofat Harkabi has
written. “But what could be further from colonialism than the idealism of
city-dwelling Jews who strive to become farmers and laborers and to live by
their own work?”1
Moreover, as British historian Paul Johnson noted, Zionists were hardly
tools of imperialists given the powers’ general opposition to their cause.
“Everywhere in the West, the foreign offices, defense ministries and big
business were against the Zionists.”2
Emir Faisal also saw the Zionist movement as a companion to the Arab
nationalist movement, fighting against imperialism, as he explained in a
letter to Harvard law professor and future Supreme Court Justice Felix
Frankfurter on March 3, 1919, one day after Chaim Weizmann presented the
Zionist case to the Paris conference. Faisal wrote:
The Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with deepest sympathy on
the Zionist movement....We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home....We
are working together for a reformed and revised Near East and our two
movements complete one another. The Jewish movement is nationalist and not
imperialist. And there is room in Syria for us both. Indeed, I think that
neither can be a real success without the other (emphasis added).3
Notes
1Yehoshofat Harkabi, Palestinians And Israel, (Jerusalem: Keter, 1974), p.
6.
2Paul Johnson, Modern Times: The World from the Twenties to the Nineties,
(NY: Harper & Row, 1983), p. 485.
3Samuel Katz, Battleground-Fact and Fantasy in Palestine, (NY: Bantam Books,
1977), p. 55.
In 1975, the UN General Assembly adopted a resolution slandering Zionism by
equating it with racism. In his spirited response to the resolution,
Israel's Ambassador to the UN, Chaim Herzog noted the irony of the timing,
the vote coming exactly 37 years after Kristallnacht.
Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, which
holds that Jews, like any other nation, are entitled to a homeland.
History has demonstrated the need to ensure Jewish security through a
national homeland. Zionism recognizes that Jewishness is defined by shared
origin, religion, culture and history.
The realization of the Zionist dream is exemplified by more than four
million Jews, from more than 100 countries, including dark-skinned Jews from
Ethiopia, Yemen and India, who are Israeli citizens. Approximately 1,000,000
Muslim and Christian Arabs, Druze, Baha'is, Circassians and other ethnic
groups also are represented in Israel's population.
Many Christians have traditionally supported the goals and ideals of
Zionism. Israel's open and democratic character and its scrupulous
protection of the religious and political rights of Christians and Muslims
rebut the charge of exclusivity.
The Arab states define citizenship strictly by native parentage. It is
almost impossible to become a naturalized citizen in many Arab states,
especially Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Several Arab nations have laws
that facilitate the naturalization of foreign Arabs, with the specific
exception of Palestinians. Jordan, on the other hand, instituted its own
"law of return" in 1954, according citizenship to all former residents of
Palestine, except for Jews.
The presence of thousands of black Jews in Israel is the best refutation of
the calumny against Zionism. In a series of historic airlifts, labeled Moses
(1984), Joshua (1985) and Solomon (1991), Israel rescued almost 42,000
members of the ancient Ethiopian Jewish community.
To single out Jewish self-determination for condemnation is itself a form of
racism. "A world that closed its doors to Jews who sought escape from
Hitler's ovens lacks the moral standing to complain about Israel's giving
preference to Jews," wrote noted civil rights lawyer Alan Dershowitz.
When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Martin Luther King
responded: "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking
anti-Semitism."
The 1975 UN resolution was part of the Soviet-Arab Cold War anti-Israel
campaign. Almost all the former non-Arab supporters of the resolution have
apologized and changed their positions. When the General Assembly voted to
repeal the resolution in 1991, only some Arab and Muslim states, as well as
Cuba, North Korea and Vietnam were opposed.
Zionist Organization Statement on Palestine
Paris Peace Conference
(February 3, 1919)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROPOSALS PRESENTED TO THE PEACE CONFERENCE
The Zionist Organization respectfully submits the following draft
resolutions for the consideration of the Peace Conference:
1. The High Contracting Parties recognize the historic title of the Jewish
people to Palestine and the right of Jews to reconstitute in Palestine their
National Home.
2. The boundaries of Palestine shall be as declared in the Schedule annexed
hereto.
3. The sovereign possession of Palestine shall be vested in the League of
Nations and the Government entrusted to Great Britain as Mandatory of the
League.
4. (Provision to be inserted relating to the application in Palestine of
such of the general conditions attached to mandates as are suitable to the
case.)
5. The mandate shall be subject also to the following special conditions:
1. Palestine shall be placed under such political, administrative and
economic conditions as will secure the establishment there of the Jewish
National Home, and ultimately render possible the creation of an autonomous
Commonwealth, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which
may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish
communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews
in any other country.
To this end the Mandatory Power shall inter alia:
1. Promote Jewish settlement and close settlement on the land, the
established rights of the present non-Jewish population being equitably
safeguarded.
2. Accept the co-operation in such measures of a Council representative of
the Jews in Palestine and of the world that may be established for the
development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine and entrust the
organization of Jewish education to such Council.
3. On being satisfied that the constitution of such Council precludes the
making of private profit, offer to the Council in priority any concession
for public works or for the development of natural sources which may be
found desirable to grant.
1. The Mandatory Power shall encourage the widest measure of self-government
for localities practicable in the conditions of the country.
2. There shall be for ever the fullest freedom of religious worship for all
creeds in Palestine. There shall be no discrimination among the inhabitants
with regard to citizenship and civil rights, on the grounds of religion, or
of race.
3. (Provision to be inserted relating to the control of the Holy Places.)
THE BOUNDARIES OF PALESTINE
SCHEDULE
The boundaries of Palestine shall follow the general lines set out below:
Starting on the North at a point on the Mediterranean Sea in the vicinity
south of Sidon and following the watersheds of the foothills of the Lebanon
as far as Jisr El-Karaon thence to El-Bire, following the dividing line
between the two basins of the Wadi El-Korn and the Wadi Et-Teim, thence in a
southerly direction following the dividing line between the Eastern and
Western slopes of the Hermon, to the vicinity west of Beit Jenn, then
eastward following the northern watersheds of the Nahr Mughaniye close to
and west of the Hedjaz Railway.
In the east a line close to and west of the Hedjaz Railway terminating in
the Gulf of Akaba.
In the south a frontier to be agreed upon with the Egyptian Government.
In the west the Mediterranean Sea.
The details of the delimitations, or any necessary adjustments of detail,
shall be settled by a Special Commission on which there shall be Jewish
representation.
STATEMENT
THE HISTORICAL TITLE
The claims of the Jews with regard to Palestine rest upon the following main
considerations:
1. The land is the historic home of the Jews; there they achieved their
greatest development; from the centre, through their agency, there emanated
spiritual and moral influences of supreme value to mankind. By violence they
were driven from Palestine, and through the ages they have never ceased to
cherish the longing and the hope of a return.
2. In some parts of the world, and particularly in Eastern Europe, the
conditions of life of millions of Jews are deplorable. Forming often a
congested population, denied the opportunities which would make a healthy
development possible, the need of fresh outlets is urgent, both for their
own sake and the interests of the population of other races, among whom they
dwell. Palestine would offer one such outlet. To the Jewish masses it is the
country above all others in which they would most wish to cast their lot. By
the methods of economic development to which we shall refer later, Palestine
can be made now, as it was in ancient times, the home of a prosperous
population many times as numerous as that which now inhabits it.
3. Palestine is not large enough to contain more than a proportion of the
Jews of the world. The greater part of the fourteen millions or more
scattered throughout all countries must remain in their present localities,
and it will doubtless be one of the cares of the Peace Conference to ensnare
for them, wherever they have been oppressed, as for all peoples, equal
rights and humane conditions. A Jewish National Home in Palestine will,
however, be of high value to them also. It influence will permeate the
Jewries of the world, it will inspire these millions, hitherto often
despairing, with a new hope; it will hold out before their eyes a higher
standard; it will help to make them even more useful citizens in the lands
in which they dwell.
4. Such a Palestine would be of value also to the world at large, whose real
wealth consists in the healthy diversities of its civilizations.
5. Lastly, the land itself needs redemption. Much of it is left desolate. It
present condition is a standing reproach. Two things are necessary for that
redemption -- a stable and enlightened Government, and an addition to the
present population which shall be energetic, intelligent, devoted to the
country, and backed by the large financial resources that are indispensable
for development. Such a population the Jews alone can supply.
Inspired by these ideas, Jewish activities, particularly during the last
thirty years, have been directed to Palestine within the measure that the
Turkish administrative system allowed. Some millions of pounds sterling have
been spent in the country, particularly in the foundation of agricultural
settlements. These settlements have been, for the most part, highly
successful.
With enterprise and skill the Jews have adopted modern scientific methods
and have shown themselves to be capable agriculturalists. Hebrew has been
revived as a living language; it is the medium of instruction in the schools
and the tongue is in daily use among the rising generation. The foundations
of a Jewish University have been laid at Jerusalem and considerable funds
have been contributed for the creation of its building and for its
endowment. Since the British occupation the Zionist Organization has
expended in Palestine approximately =A3 50,000 a month upon relief,
education and sanitation. To promote the future development of the country,
great sums will be needed for drainage, irrigation, roads, railways, harbors
and public works of all kinds, as well as for land settlement and house
building. Assuming a political settlement under which the establishment of a
Jewish National Home in Palestine is assured, the Jews of the world will
make every effort to provide the vast sums of money that will be needed.
Hundreds of thousands of Jews pray for the opportunity speedily to begin
life anew in Palestine. Messengers have gone out from many places, and
groups of young Jewish men proceeding on foot have already reached Trieste
and Rome on their weary pilgrimage to Zion.
The historic title of the Jews to Palestine was recognized by the British
Government in its Declaration of November 2nd, 1917, addressed by the
British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to Lord Rothschild, and
reading as follows:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of
a National Home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to
facilitate the achievement of this objective, it being clear that nothing
shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing
non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status
enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
The French Government gave its support to the British Declaration to M.
Sokolow as follows:
Ministre des Affaires Etrangres de la
Republique Francaise
Le 14 Fevrier, 1918
Monsieur,
"Comme il avait convenu au cours de notre entretien le samedi 9 de ce mois,
le Gouvernement de la Republique, en vue de preciser son attitude
vis-a-vis de aspirations sionistes, tendant por les juifs en Palestine un
foyer national, a publi un communique dans la Presse.
"En vous communiquant ce texte, je saisis avee empressement l occasionde
vous feliciter du gereux devouement avec lequel vous poursuivez la
realisation des voeux de vos coreligionnaires et de voux remercier du zele
que vous apportez el leur faire connaitre les sentiments de sympathie que
leurs efforts eveillent dans les pays de le Entente et notamment en France.
"Veuillez agreer, Monsieur, les assurances de ma consideration tres
distinguee.
(Sgd.) S. Pichon
Monsieur Sokolow,
tel Meurice
Paris.
[Enclosure]
Paris, Le 9 de Fevrier, 1918.
"Monsieur Sokolow representant des organisations Sionistes, a et reu ce
matin, au Ministere des Affaires Etrangeres, par M. Stephen Pichon, qui a
heureaux de lui conformer que l entente est complete entre les gouvernements
francaise et britannique en ce qui concerne la question dun etablissement
juif en Palestine.
The Italian Government has declared its approval on the same lines. The
President of the United States has expressed his sympathy with the Zionist
aspirations in the spirit of Mr. Balfour's declaration. The Governments of
Japan, Greece, Serbia, China, and Siam have added their approval to the
declaration.
Great Britain as Mandatory of the League of Nations
We ask that Great Britain shall act as Mandatory of the League of Nations
for Palestine. The selection of Great Britain as Mandatory is urged on the
ground that this is the wish of the Jews of the world, and the League of
Nations in selecting a Mandatory will follow as far as possible the popular
wish of the people concerned.
The Preference on the part of the Jews for a British Trusteeship is
unquestionably the result of the peculiar relationship of England to the
Jewish Palestinian problem. The return of the Jews to Zion has not only been
a remarkable feature in English literature, but in the domain of statecraft
it has played its part, beginning with the readmission of the Jews under
Cromwell. It manifested itself particularly in the ninetenth century in the
instructions given to British Consular representatives in the Orient after
the Damascus [Blood Libel] incident; in the various Jewish Palestinian
projects suggested by English non-Jews prior to 1881; in the letters of
endorsement and support given by members of the Royal Family and Officers of
the Government to Lawrence Oliphant; and, finally, in the three consecutive
acts which definitely associated Great Britain with Zionism in the minds of
the Jews, viz: the El-Arish offer in 1901; the East African offer in1903,
and, lastly, the British Declaration in favour of a Jewish National Home in
Palestine in 1917. Moreover, the Jews who have gained political experience
in many lands under a great variety of governmental systems, whole-heartedly
appreciate the advanced and liberal policies adopted by Great Britain in her
modern colonial administration.
It may be stated without doubt that all of these things account for the
attitude taken by the Jews with reference to the Trusteeship, as evidenced
by the following:
On December 16th, 1918, the American Jewish Congress composed of delegates
representing 3,000,000 American Jews adopted the following resolution:
"The American Jewish Congress instruct their delegation to Europe to
co-operate with representatives of other Jewish Organizations and
specifically with the World Zionist Organization, to the end that the Peace
Conference may recognize the aspirations and historic claims of the Jewish
people with regard to Palestine, and declare that, in accordance with the
British Government's Declaration of November 2nd, 1917, endorsed by the
Allied Governments and the President of the United States, there shall be
established such political administrative and economic conditions in
Palestine, as will assure under the trusteeship of Great Britain, acting on
behalf of such League of Nations as may be formed, the development of
Palestine into a Jewish Commonwealth; it being clearly understood that
nothing shall be done which shall prejudice the civil and religious rights
of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political
status enjoyed by Jews in other countries."
Similar action was taken in Jaffa in the month of December, 1918, by a
conference of representatives of the Jewish population in Palestine, and on
January 4th, 1919, by Jewish Congresses representing about two million Jews
of the reconstituted States of Austria-Hungary and of Poland.
BOUNDARIES
The boundaries above outlined are what we consider essential for the
necessary economic foundation of the country. Palestine must have its
natural outlets to the seas and the control of its rivers and their
headwaters. The boundaries are sketched with the general economic needs and
historic traditions of the country in mind, factors which necessarily must
also be considered by the Special Commission in fixing the definite boundary
lines. This Commission will bear in mind that it is highly desirable, in the
interests of economical administration, that the geographical area of
Palestine should be as large as possible, so that it may eventually contain
a large and thriving population which could more easily bear the burdens of
modern civilized government than a small country with a necessary limitation
of inhabitants.
The economic life of Palestine, like that of every other semi-arid country,
depends on the available water supply. It is, therefore, of vital importance
not only to secure all water resources already feeding the country, but also
to be able to conserve and control them at their sources.
The Hermon is Palestine's real "Father of Waters," and cannot be severed
from it without striking at the very root of its economic life. The Hermon
not only need re-afforestation but also other work before it can again
adequately serve as the water reservoir of the country. It must, therefore,
be wholly under the control of those who will most willingly as well as most
adequately restore it to its maximum utility. Some international arrangement
must be made whereby the riparian rights of the people dwelling south of the
Litani River may be fully protected. Properly cared for, these headwaters
can be made to serve in the development of the Lebanon as well as of
Palestine.
The fertile plains east of the Jordan, since the earliest Biblical times,
have been linked economically and politically with the land west of the
Jordan. The country which is now very sparsely populated, in Roman times
supported a great population. It could now serve admirably for colonization
on a large scale. A just regard for the economic needs of Palestine and
Arabia demands that free access to the Hedjaz Railway throughout its length
be accorded both Governments.
An intensive development of the agriculture and other opportunities of
Trans-Jordania make it imperative that Palestine shall have access to the
Red Sea and an opportunity of developing good harbours on the Gulf of Akaba.
Akaba, it will be recalled, was the terminous of an important trade route of
Palestine from the days of Solomon onwards. The ports developed in the Gulf
of Akaba should be free ports through which the commerce of the Hinterland
may pass on the same principle which guides us in suggesting that free
access be given to the Hedjaz Railway.
PROPOSALS TO THE MANDATORY POWER
In connection with the Government to be set up by the Mandatory of the
League of Nations until such time as the people of Palestine shall be
prepared to undertake the establishment of representative and responsible
Government, proposals will be made in due course to the Mandatory Power to
the following effect:
1. In any instrument establishing the constitution of Palestine the
Declarations of the Peace Conference shall be recited as forming an integral
part of that constitution.
2. The Jewish people shall be entitled to fair representation in the
executive and legislative bodies in the selection of public and civil
servants. In giving such representation the Mandatory Power shall consult
the Jewish Council hereinafter mentioned.
Neither law nor custom shall preclude the appointment of a citizen of
Palestine as chief of the Executive.
1. That in encouraging the self-government of localities the Mandatory Power
shall secure the maintenance by local communities of proper standards of
administration in matters of education, communal or regional activities. In
granting or enlarging local autonomy regard shall be had to readiness and
ability of the community to attain such standards. Local autonomous
communities shall be empowered and encouraged to combine and co-operate for
common purposes.
2. Education without distinction of race shall be assisted from public
funds.
3. Hebrew shall be one of the official languages of Palestine and shall be
employed in all documents, decrees, and announcements and on all stamps,
coins and notes issued by the Government.
4. The Jewish Sabbath and Holy Days shall be recognized as legal days of
rest.
5. All inhabitants continuing to reside in Palestine who on the day of , 19
, have their domicile in Palestine, except those who elect in writing within
six months from such date to retain their foreign citizenship, shall become
citizens of Palestine, and they and all persons in Palestine or naturalized
under the laws of Palestine after the day of , 19 , shall be citizens
thereof and entitled to the protection of the Mandatory Power on behalf of
the Government of Palestine.
Land Commission
Recognizing that the general progress of Palestine must begin with the
reform of the conditions governing land tenure and settlement, the Mandatory
Power shall appoint a Commission (upon which the Jewish Council shall have
representation) with power:
1. To make a survey of the land and to schedule all lands that may be made
available for close settlement, intensive cultivation, and public use.
2. To propose measures for determining and registering titles of ownership
of land.
3. To propose measures for supervising transactions in land with a view of
preventing land speculation.
4. To propose measures for the close settlement, intensive cultivation, and
public use of land, where necessary by compulsory purchase at a fair pre-war
price and further, by making available all waste lands unoccupied and
inadequately cultivated lands or lands without legal owners and state lands.
5. To propose measures for the taxation and the tenure of land and in
general any progressive measures in harmony with the policy of making the
land available for close settlement and intensive cultivation.
6. To propose measures whereby the Jewish Council may take over all lands
available for close settlement and intensive cultivation.
7. In all such measures the established rights of the present population
shall be equitably safeguarded.
THE JEWISH COUNCIL FOR PALESTINE
1. A Jewish Council for Palestine shall be elected by a Jewish Congress
representative of the Jews of Palestine and of the world, which shall be
convoked in Jerusalem on or before January 1st, 1920, or as soon thereafter
as possible by the Provisional Jewish Council hereinafter mentioned.
The Jewish Congress shall determine its function as well as constitution and
functions of the Jewish Council in conformity with the purpose and spirit of
the Declarations of the Peace Conference and of the powers conferred by the
Mandatory Power upon the Jewish Council.
2. The Jewish Council shall be recognized as a legal entity and shall have
power:
1. To co-operate and consult with and to assist the Government of Palestine
in any and all matters affecting the Jewish people in Palestine and in all
such cases to be and to act as the representative of the Jewish people.
2. To participate in the development and administration of immigration,
close land settlement, credit facilities, public work, services and
enterprises, and every other form of activity conducive to the development
the country. The organization of Jewish education to be entrusted to such
Council.
3. To acquire and hold real estate.
4. To acquire and exercise concessions for public works and the development
of natural resources.
5. With the consent of the Jewish inhabitants concerned or their accredited
representatives, to assess such inhabitants for the purpose of stimulating
and maintaining education, communal, charitable and other public
institutions (including the Jewish Council), and other activities primarily
concerned with the welfare of the Jewish people in Palestine.
6. With the approval of the Mandatory Power and upon such terms and
conditions as the Mandatory Power may prescribe, to administer the
immigration laws of Palestine in so far as they affect the Jewish
immigration.
7. With the approval of the Mandatory Power, to issue bonds, debentures, or
other obligations, the proceeds of any or all of which to be expended by the
Jewish Council for the benefit of the Jewish people or for the development
of Palestine.
8. The Jewish Council shall hold all of its property and income in trust for
the benefit of the Jewish people.
1. A Provisional Jewish Council of representatives of the Zionist
Organization, of the Jewish population in Palestine, and of such other
approved Jewish organizations as are willing to co-operate in the
development of a Jewish Palestine shall be formed forthwith by the Zionist
Organization. Such Provisional Jewish Council shall exercise all of the
powers and perform all of the duties of the Jewish Council until such time
as the Jewish Council shall be formally constituted by the Jewish Congress.
2. Finally, when in the opinion of the Mandatory Power, the inhabitants of
Palestine shall be able to undertake the establishment of a representative
and responsible government, such steps shall be taken as will permit the
establishment of such government through the exercise of a democratic
franchise without regard to race or faith; and the inhabitants of Palestine
under such government shall continue to enjoy equal civil and political
rights as citizens irrespective of race or faith.
THE ZIONIST ORGANIZATION
The foregoing proposals with reference to Palestine are submitted to the
Peace Conference by the Zionist Organization. The Organization in the
present form dates from the year 1897, when the first Zionist Congress was
held at Basle, Switzerland, under the leadership of Theodore Herzl. This
Organization absorbed at that time all Zionist Organizations which had been
in existence previously. The Zionist Movement is supported by Jews in every
country where there are Jewish mass settlements, i.e., in Eastern Europe,
the United States of America, in Western Europe, in all the British
Colonies, in the Argentine, in Siberia, in Shanghai, in Morocco, and in
Tunis. Zionist federations actively engaged in furthering the principles for
which the movement stands are to be found in all these countries.
The supreme body which controls the activities of the organizations in the
different countries consist of delegates elected by the various local Shekel
payers (poll tax) by a democratic franchise, and this body meets biennially.
Through the several financial agencies which the Zionist Congress has
created to enable it to carry forward its work in Palestine, the
Organization and associated bodies have raised and have expended in
Palestine since its inception; millions of pounds. Notwithstanding the fact
that since 1913 no meetings of the Congress have been held, the Organization
has greatly increased its enrolled membership, and has the support of
hundreds of thousands of Jews who sympathize with aims of the movement, and
contribute to its funds. Since the war, the centres of political activity
have been transferred to London and the United States of America.
In the allied countries the conduct of the political activities of the
Organization has been entrusted to Dr. Chaim Weizmann and M. Nahum Sokolow,
members of the Executive. In the United States of America the Provisional
Executive Committee for General Zionist Affairs, created at the outbreak of
the war, has been replaced by the Zionist Organization of America, the
Honorary President of which is Louis D. Brandeis, Associate Justice of the
Supreme Court of the United States. Zionists are to be found at the head of
all the greater Jewish national institutions which depend upon mass opinion
for moral and financial support; and in addition, take a prominent part in
all the Jewish National Councils established in the new states in Eastern
Europe.
CONCLUSION
In every part of the world on the Day of Atonement the Jews pray that "all
nations may be united by a common bond, so that the will of God may reign
supreme throughout the world." In the fulfillment of this prayer, the Jews
hope that they will be able to take an honorable place in the new community
of nations. It is their purpose to establish in Palestine a government
dedicated to social and national justice; a government that shall be guided,
like the community of old, by that justice and equality which is expressed
in the great precept of our Lawgiver: "There shall be but one law for you
and the stranger in the land."
All of which is respectfully submitted.
Rothschild (Lord Walter Rothschild)
On behalf of the Zionist Organization,
Nahum Sokolow,
Chaim Weizmann.
On behalf of Zionist Organization of America,
Julian W. Mack.
Stephen S. Wise
Harry Friedenwald.
Jacob De Haas.
Mary Fels.
Louis Robison.
Bernard Flexner.
On behalf of the Russian Zionist Organization
Israel Rosoff.
On behalf of the Jewish Population of Palestine in accordance with Mandate
received,
Nahum Sokolow
Chaim Weizmann
"Hypatia Kosh" <Phillips.66.berliv2@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:1048bc8e.0412011159.1f4c73f6@posting.google.com...
| "Riain Y. Barton" <riain@riain.us> wrote in message
news:<rq2dnU1jC-x0tTDcRVn-qA@comcast.com>...
| > Being Anti-Zionist is being Anti-Jewish, they are one and the same.
|
| *****. Zionism is the assertion that God gave Palestine to the Jews
| forever and that they have a God-given right to drive out by any means
| (including killing) anyone else who might be living there. You don't
| have to be anti-Jewish (in fact, I'm rather pro-Jew) to reject that.
|
| > And what you, a Jew-Hating ***** is saying is that the Jewish people are
not
| > entitled to their own homeland, their own state, and should be a
stateless
| > people, who cannot decide their own destiny.
|
| Rejecting Zionism does not mean not recognizing Israel and its right
| to exist. It does mean rejecting the argument that:
|
| 1. There is a God
| 2. God chose the Jewish people above all others, and
| 3. God says they get this particular piece of desert real estate and
| everybody else has to leave
| 4. God's commands trump international law and the Universal
| Declaration of the Rights of Man
|
| I reject all four premises. 4 on basis of might doesn't make right, 3
| and 2 on basis of according to very reliable reports God tells every
| dirtbag ethnic group similar tales so all these stupid claims cancel
| each other out, 1 (and most strongly) on basis of complete lack of
| evidence.
|
| I support the existence of Israel. I don't support the extermination
| of the Palestinians, and I don't accept Zionism or any other brand of
| Theism.
|
| -Hypatia
.
User: "Jan Pompe"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComesTrue In Our Times 02 Dec 2004 02:48:27 AM
Riain Y. Barton wrote:

Jews who criticize or oppose Zionism are usually Orthodox and maintain that
Israel can only be regained miraculously.

Minor point not all 'orthodox' are opposed to Zionism and those that
oppose really only have objection to it's present mostly secular form.
.
User: "Riain Y. Barton"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComes True In Our Times 02 Dec 2004 02:24:06 AM
Good fucking grief!!!
Can you not fucking read?
One, I didn't write the bloody thing!
Two, it never once says that, in fact it states that THE Jews who usually
criticises are Orthodox......... The web site goes into great detail about
those two very small sects of Orthodox Judaism that are ANTI-ZIONISTS.
"Jan Pompe" <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
news:10qtietarvmjf13@news.supernews.com...
| Riain Y. Barton wrote:
|
| > Jews who criticize or oppose Zionism are usually Orthodox and maintain
that
| > Israel can only be regained miraculously.
|
| Minor point not all 'orthodox' are opposed to Zionism and those that
| oppose really only have objection to it's present mostly secular form.
|
.
User: "Jan Pompe"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComesTrue In Our Times 02 Dec 2004 03:50:10 AM
Riain Y. Barton wrote:

Good fucking grief!!!

Mind your language it indicates you were draqgged up kicking and
screaing instead of brought up.


Can you not fucking read?

Of course I can.


One, I didn't write the bloody thing!

You posted it.


Two, it never once says that, in fact it states that THE Jews who usually
criticises are Orthodox......... The web site goes into great detail about
those two very small sects of Orthodox Judaism that are ANTI-ZIONISTS.

Yes it was overly verbose
.
User: "Riain Y. Barton"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComes True In Our Times 03 Dec 2004 01:34:41 AM
***** Pompe, you are absolutely clueless!!!
"Jan Pompe" <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
news:10qtm2md1814b9a@news.supernews.com...
| Riain Y. Barton wrote:
| > Good fucking grief!!!
|
| Mind your language it indicates you were draqgged up kicking and
| screaing instead of brought up.
| >
| > Can you not fucking read?
|
| Of course I can.
| >
| > One, I didn't write the bloody thing!
|
| You posted it.
| >
| > Two, it never once says that, in fact it states that THE Jews who
usually
| > criticises are Orthodox......... The web site goes into great detail
about
| > those two very small sects of Orthodox Judaism that are ANTI-ZIONISTS.
| >
|
| Yes it was overly verbose
|
.
User: "Jan Pompe"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComesTrue In Our Times 05 Dec 2004 10:00:45 PM
Riain Y. Barton wrote:

***** Pompe, you are absolutely clueless!!!


Speak for yourself you ill mannered moron.
.




User: "Riain Y. Barton"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComes True In Our Times 02 Dec 2004 02:26:55 AM
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/zion.html
"Jan Pompe" <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
news:10qtietarvmjf13@news.supernews.com...
| Riain Y. Barton wrote:
|
| > Jews who criticize or oppose Zionism are usually Orthodox and maintain
that
| > Israel can only be regained miraculously.
|
| Minor point not all 'orthodox' are opposed to Zionism and those that
| oppose really only have objection to it's present mostly secular form.
|
.
User: "Jan Pompe"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComesTrue In Our Times 02 Dec 2004 03:51:45 AM
Riain Y. Barton wrote:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/zion.html

Oh well better late than never.
.





User: "Drew"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComesTrue In Our Times 30 Nov 2004 08:38:22 PM
Riain Y. Barton wrote:

Being Anti-Zionist is being Anti-Jewish, they are one and the same.

You keep saying that. It is simply not true. Not all Jews are
zionists, and not all zionists are Jews.

And what you, a Jew-Hating ***** is saying is that the Jewish people are not
entitled to their own homeland, their own state, and should be a stateless
people, who cannot decide their own destiny.

Is being Jewish a religion, or an ethnic group? Do christians or
muslims or buddhists deserve their own homeland?
You can't have it both ways.
Mind you, I believe that Israel is a legitimate state and has a right to
exist. I also believe the same thing about Palestine.
--
Drew
--
Help me raise money to defeat Breast Cancer!
http://www.drewncapris.net/bcfund/hair.html
--
"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over,
their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight,
restore their government to its true principles."
(Thomas Jefferson, in a letter of 1798, after the passage of the
Sedition Act.)
.
User: "Jan Pompe"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComesTrue In Our Times 01 Dec 2004 12:44:55 AM
Drew wrote:


Riain Y. Barton wrote:

Being Anti-Zionist is being Anti-Jewish, they are one and the same.


You keep saying that. It is simply not true. Not all Jews are
zionists, and not all zionists are Jews.

And what you, a Jew-Hating ***** is saying is that the Jewish people
are not entitled to their own homeland, their own state, and should be
a stateless people, who cannot decide their own destiny.


Is being Jewish a religion, or an ethnic group?

Both
Do christians or

muslims or buddhists deserve their own homeland?

They are just religions so the answer is no but each of them do have
homelands and a number of them.


You can't have it both ways.

Mind you, I believe that Israel is a legitimate state and has a right to
exist. I also believe the same thing about Palestine.

.
User: "Drew"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another Biblical ProphecyComesTrue In Our Times 01 Dec 2004 07:39:35 AM
Jan Pompe wrote:

Drew wrote:


Riain Y. Barton wrote:

Being Anti-Zionist is being Anti-Jewish, they are one and the same.


You keep saying that. It is simply not true. Not all Jews are
zionists, and not all zionists are Jews.

And what you, a Jew-Hating ***** is saying is that the Jewish people
are not entitled to their own homeland, their own state, and should
be a stateless people, who cannot decide their own destiny.


Is being Jewish a religion, or an ethnic group?



Both

You're trying to have it both ways.

Do christians or

muslims or buddhists deserve their own homeland?




They are just religions so the answer is no but each of them do have
homelands and a number of them.

They certainly don't. Oh, some countries may have one or the other as
an official religion, but there is no nation founded specifically to be
the homeland of Christianity or Islam -- and BOTH were born in the same
place that Judaism was, FROM the Judaic tradition.
--
Drew
--
Help me raise money to defeat Breast Cancer!
http://www.drewncapris.net/bcfund/hair.html
--
"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over,
their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight,
restore their government to its true principles."
(Thomas Jefferson, in a letter of 1798, after the passage of the
Sedition Act.)
.
User: "Jan Pompe"

Title: Re: Sanhedrin Restored In Israel - Another B