| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Pahu" |
| Date: |
19 Oct 2007 01:10:09 PM |
| Object: |
Science Disproves Evolution |
Old DNA, Bacteria, and Proteins? 3
Bacteria. Even living bacterial spores have been recovered, cultured,
and identified in intestines of bees preserved in supposedly 25-40-
million-year-old amber (k). The same bacteria, Bacillus, are found
alive in rocks allegedly 250 million and 650 million years old (l).
Italian scientists have recovered 78 different types of dormant, but
living, bacteria in two meteorites that are presumed to be 4.5 billion
years old (m). If one accepts these old ages for rocks, then they must
also accept that some bacteria are practically immortal-an obviously
absurd conclusion. (Because these "old" bacteria and the various DNA
specimens closely match those of today, little evolution has
occurred.)
Proteins. Evolutionists face similar contradictions with proteins (n),
soft tissue (o), and blood compounds (p) preserved in dinosaur bones.
As with DNA, these remains should not last 70-150 million years, as is
claimed for those bones. All this should discredit these old ages.
k=2E Ra=FAl J. Cano and Monica K. Borucki, "Revival and Identification of
Bacterial Spores in 25- to 40-Million-Year-Old Dominican Amber,"
Science, Vol. 268, 19 May 1995, pp. 1060-1064.
Many tests were preformed to rule out contamination. [See also F. G.
Priest, Andrew T. Beckenbach, and Ra=FAl J. Cano, "Age of Bacteria from
Amber," Science, Vol. 270, 22 December 1995, pp. 2015-2017.]
"When you look at them they don't look any different from the modern
ones, but these bacteria are ancient [supposedly 25-40 million years
ancient] and they're alive!" Joshua Fischman, "Have 25-Million-Year-
Old Bacteria Returned to Life?" Science, Vol. 268, 19 May 1995, p.
977.
l=2E "There is also the question of how bacterial biopolymers can remain
intact over millions of years in dormant bacteria; or, conversely, if
bacteria are metabolically active enough to repair biopolymers, this
raises the question of what energy source could last over such a long
period." R. John Parkes, "A Case of Bacterial Immortality?" Nature,
Vol. 407, 19 October 2000, pp. 844-845.
<p>
Russell H. Vreeland et al., "Isolation of a 250 Million-Year-Old
Halotolerant Bacterium from a Primary Salt Crystal," Nature, Vol. 407,
19 October 2000, pp. 897-900.
Other tests have confirmed Vreeland's discover described above. [See
Cindy L. Satterfield et al., "New Evidence for 250 Ma Age of
Halotolerant Bacterium from a Permian Salt Crystal," Geology, Vol. 33,
April 2005, pp. 265-268.]
m=2E See Endnote 64 on page 302.
n=2E Richard Monastersky, "Protein Identified in Dinosaur Fossils,"
Science News, Vol. 142, 3 October 1992, p. 213.
Gerard Muyzer et al., "Preservation of the Bone Protein Osteocalcin in
Dinosaurs," Geology, Vol. 20, October 1992, pp. 871-874.
o=2E "Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of
Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of
the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood
vessels ..." Mary H. Schweitzer et al., "Soft-Tissue Vessels and
Cellular Preservation in Tyrannosaurus Rex," Science, Vol. 307, 25
March 2005, p. 1952.
"'I am quite aware that according to conventional wisdom and models of
fossilization, these structures aren't supposed to be there, but there
they are,' said Schweitzer, lead author of the paper. 'I was pretty
shocked.'" Evelyn Boswell, "Montana T. Rex Yields Next Big Discovery
in Dinosaur Paleontology," Montana State University News Service, 24
March 2005, p. 1.
p=2E Mary H. Schweitzer et al., "Heme Compounds in Dinosaur Trabecular
Bone," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol. 94, June
1997, pp. 6291-6296.
http://www.creationscience.com/
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
19 Oct 2007 02:13:43 PM |
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In article <1192817409.184761.144850@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Pahu
<pahu70@yahoo.com> wrote:
Old DNA, Bacteria, and Proteins? 3
Bacteria. Even living bacterial spores have been recovered, cultured,
and identified in intestines of bees preserved in supposedly 25-40-
million-year-old amber (k). The same bacteria, Bacillus, are found
alive in rocks allegedly 250 million and 650 million years old (l).
Italian scientists have recovered 78 different types of dormant, but
living, bacteria in two meteorites that are presumed to be 4.5 billion
years old (m). If one accepts these old ages for rocks, then they must
also accept that some bacteria are practically immortal-an obviously
absurd conclusion. (Because these "old" bacteria and the various DNA
specimens closely match those of today, little evolution has
occurred.)
Proteins. Evolutionists face similar contradictions with proteins (n),
soft tissue (o), and blood compounds (p) preserved in dinosaur bones.
As with DNA, these remains should not last 70-150 million years, as is
claimed for those bones. All this should discredit these old ages.
k=2E Ra=FAl J. Cano and Monica K. Borucki, "Revival and Identification of
Bacterial Spores in 25- to 40-Million-Year-Old Dominican Amber,"
Science, Vol. 268, 19 May 1995, pp. 1060-1064.
Many tests were preformed to rule out contamination. [See also F. G.
Priest, Andrew T. Beckenbach, and Ra=FAl J. Cano, "Age of Bacteria from
Amber," Science, Vol. 270, 22 December 1995, pp. 2015-2017.]
"When you look at them they don't look any different from the modern
ones, but these bacteria are ancient [supposedly 25-40 million years
ancient] and they're alive!" Joshua Fischman, "Have 25-Million-Year-
Old Bacteria Returned to Life?" Science, Vol. 268, 19 May 1995, p.
977.
l=2E "There is also the question of how bacterial biopolymers can remain
intact over millions of years in dormant bacteria; or, conversely, if
bacteria are metabolically active enough to repair biopolymers, this
raises the question of what energy source could last over such a long
period." R. John Parkes, "A Case of Bacterial Immortality?" Nature,
Vol. 407, 19 October 2000, pp. 844-845.
<p>
Russell H. Vreeland et al., "Isolation of a 250 Million-Year-Old
Halotolerant Bacterium from a Primary Salt Crystal," Nature, Vol. 407,
19 October 2000, pp. 897-900.
Other tests have confirmed Vreeland's discover described above. [See
Cindy L. Satterfield et al., "New Evidence for 250 Ma Age of
Halotolerant Bacterium from a Permian Salt Crystal," Geology, Vol. 33,
April 2005, pp. 265-268.]
m=2E See Endnote 64 on page 302.
n=2E Richard Monastersky, "Protein Identified in Dinosaur Fossils,"
Science News, Vol. 142, 3 October 1992, p. 213.
Gerard Muyzer et al., "Preservation of the Bone Protein Osteocalcin in
Dinosaurs," Geology, Vol. 20, October 1992, pp. 871-874.
o=2E "Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of
Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of
the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood
vessels ..." Mary H. Schweitzer et al., "Soft-Tissue Vessels and
Cellular Preservation in Tyrannosaurus Rex," Science, Vol. 307, 25
March 2005, p. 1952.
"'I am quite aware that according to conventional wisdom and models of
fossilization, these structures aren't supposed to be there, but there
they are,' said Schweitzer, lead author of the paper. 'I was pretty
shocked.'" Evelyn Boswell, "Montana T. Rex Yields Next Big Discovery
in Dinosaur Paleontology," Montana State University News Service, 24
March 2005, p. 1.
p=2E Mary H. Schweitzer et al., "Heme Compounds in Dinosaur Trabecular
Bone," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol. 94, June
1997, pp. 6291-6296.
http://www.creationscience.com/
Please stop confusing evolutionists with facts. It may cause them to
develop severe mental problems. They may even start having anxiety and
depression.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
22 Oct 2007 08:31:40 AM |
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"Jason" <Jason@nospam.com>
snip
Please stop confusing evolutionists with facts. It may cause them to
develop severe mental problems. They may even start having anxiety and
depression.
So desperate that you now have to resort to blantant lies? Funny, but I
thought lying was against your religion. Guess not.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
23 Oct 2007 12:56:33 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:31:40 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Jason" <Jason@nospam.com>
snip
Please stop confusing evolutionists with facts. It may cause them to
develop severe mental problems. They may even start having anxiety and
depression.
So desperate that you now have to resort to blantant lies?
"Now"? What's with the "now"?
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"Sarah, if the American people had ever known the truth about what we Bushes have done
to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched."
-George H. W. Bush, spoken in an interview with Sarah McClendon, June 1992
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
24 Oct 2007 09:21:09 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:vddsh3di8rosoiaao90is5u9ia701m220u@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:31:40 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Jason" <Jason@nospam.com>
snip
Please stop confusing evolutionists with facts. It may cause them to
develop severe mental problems. They may even start having anxiety and
depression.
So desperate that you now have to resort to blantant lies?
"Now"? What's with the "now"?
Should I have said "still"? ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
24 Oct 2007 12:30:41 PM |
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On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:21:09 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:vddsh3di8rosoiaao90is5u9ia701m220u@4ax.com...
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:31:40 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Jason" <Jason@nospam.com>
snip
Please stop confusing evolutionists with facts. It may cause them to
develop severe mental problems. They may even start having anxiety and
depression.
So desperate that you now have to resort to blantant lies?
"Now"? What's with the "now"?
Should I have said "still"? ;)
That would have been closer.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye
shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it,
but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great
enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code."
- Mark Twain, a Biography
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
20 Oct 2007 07:40:29 AM |
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On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:13:43 -0700, (Jason) wrote:
In article <1192817409.184761.144850@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Pahu
<pahu70@yahoo.com> wrote:
Old DNA, Bacteria, and Proteins? 3
Bacteria. Even living bacterial spores have been recovered, cultured,
and identified in intestines of bees preserved in supposedly 25-40-
million-year-old amber (k). The same bacteria, Bacillus, are found
alive in rocks allegedly 250 million and 650 million years old (l).
Italian scientists have recovered 78 different types of dormant, but
living, bacteria in two meteorites that are presumed to be 4.5 billion
years old (m). If one accepts these old ages for rocks, then they must
also accept that some bacteria are practically immortal-an obviously
absurd conclusion. (Because these "old" bacteria and the various DNA
specimens closely match those of today, little evolution has
occurred.)
Proteins. Evolutionists face similar contradictions with proteins (n),
soft tissue (o), and blood compounds (p) preserved in dinosaur bones.
As with DNA, these remains should not last 70-150 million years, as is
claimed for those bones. All this should discredit these old ages.
k=2E Ra=FAl J. Cano and Monica K. Borucki, "Revival and Identification of
Bacterial Spores in 25- to 40-Million-Year-Old Dominican Amber,"
Science, Vol. 268, 19 May 1995, pp. 1060-1064.
Many tests were preformed to rule out contamination. [See also F. G.
Priest, Andrew T. Beckenbach, and Ra=FAl J. Cano, "Age of Bacteria from
Amber," Science, Vol. 270, 22 December 1995, pp. 2015-2017.]
"When you look at them they don't look any different from the modern
ones, but these bacteria are ancient [supposedly 25-40 million years
ancient] and they're alive!" Joshua Fischman, "Have 25-Million-Year-
Old Bacteria Returned to Life?" Science, Vol. 268, 19 May 1995, p.
977.
l=2E "There is also the question of how bacterial biopolymers can remain
intact over millions of years in dormant bacteria; or, conversely, if
bacteria are metabolically active enough to repair biopolymers, this
raises the question of what energy source could last over such a long
period." R. John Parkes, "A Case of Bacterial Immortality?" Nature,
Vol. 407, 19 October 2000, pp. 844-845.
<p>
Russell H. Vreeland et al., "Isolation of a 250 Million-Year-Old
Halotolerant Bacterium from a Primary Salt Crystal," Nature, Vol. 407,
19 October 2000, pp. 897-900.
Other tests have confirmed Vreeland's discover described above. [See
Cindy L. Satterfield et al., "New Evidence for 250 Ma Age of
Halotolerant Bacterium from a Permian Salt Crystal," Geology, Vol. 33,
April 2005, pp. 265-268.]
m=2E See Endnote 64 on page 302.
n=2E Richard Monastersky, "Protein Identified in Dinosaur Fossils,"
Science News, Vol. 142, 3 October 1992, p. 213.
Gerard Muyzer et al., "Preservation of the Bone Protein Osteocalcin in
Dinosaurs," Geology, Vol. 20, October 1992, pp. 871-874.
o=2E "Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of
Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of
the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood
vessels ..." Mary H. Schweitzer et al., "Soft-Tissue Vessels and
Cellular Preservation in Tyrannosaurus Rex," Science, Vol. 307, 25
March 2005, p. 1952.
"'I am quite aware that according to conventional wisdom and models of
fossilization, these structures aren't supposed to be there, but there
they are,' said Schweitzer, lead author of the paper. 'I was pretty
shocked.'" Evelyn Boswell, "Montana T. Rex Yields Next Big Discovery
in Dinosaur Paleontology," Montana State University News Service, 24
March 2005, p. 1.
p=2E Mary H. Schweitzer et al., "Heme Compounds in Dinosaur Trabecular
Bone," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol. 94, June
1997, pp. 6291-6296.
http://www.creationscience.com/
Please stop confusing evolutionists with facts. It may cause them to
develop severe mental problems. They may even start having anxiety and
depression.
Please stop confusing what century you live in.. Referring to people as
"evolutionists" is like referring to people as "round earthers."
Ben
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
19 Oct 2007 11:13:40 PM |
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On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:13:43 -0700, (Jason) wrote:
Please stop confusing evolutionists with facts. It may cause them to
develop severe mental problems. They may even start having anxiety and
depression.
Is that why you contracted yours - because someone showed you facts?
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
Is he willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Whence then comes evil?
-Epicurus, 3rd c. BCE
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
20 Oct 2007 07:34:44 AM |
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On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:10:09 -0700, Pahu <pahu70@yahoo.com> wrote:
Old DNA, Bacteria, and Proteins? 3
Bacteria. Even living bacterial spores have been recovered, cultured,
and identified in intestines of bees preserved in supposedly 25-40-
million-year-old amber (k). The same bacteria, Bacillus, are found
alive in rocks allegedly 250 million and 650 million years old (l).
Italian scientists have recovered 78 different types of dormant, but
living, bacteria in two meteorites that are presumed to be 4.5 billion
years old (m). If one accepts these old ages for rocks, then they must
also accept that some bacteria are practically immortal-an obviously
absurd conclusion. (Because these "old" bacteria and the various DNA
specimens closely match those of today, little evolution has
occurred.)
Why should an organism make significant changes when it is, apparently,
perfectly adapted to its environment? You clearly don't understand anything
about evolution except for the fact it invalidates your religious beliefs.
Proteins. Evolutionists face similar contradictions with proteins (n),
Similar contradictions? Where, what? The only contradiction is your absurd
denial that the earth is billions of years old, not 10,000 years.
soft tissue (o), and blood compounds (p) preserved in dinosaur bones.
As with DNA, these remains should not last 70-150 million years, as is
claimed for those bones. All this should discredit these old ages.
Compare the extreme rarity and quality of actual preserved dinosaur tissue to
that of a creature we know went extinct about 10,000 years ago such as the Wooly
Mammoth. We find entire preserved carcasses of the latter. If dinosaurs were
of the same age we would be finding them too, but no, by and large we just get
fossilized bones.
<SNIP>
Ben
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
20 Oct 2007 09:32:31 PM |
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On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:34:44 -0400, Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:10:09 -0700, Pahu <pahu70@yahoo.com> wrote:
Old DNA, Bacteria, and Proteins? 3
Bacteria. Even living bacterial spores have been recovered, cultured,
and identified in intestines of bees preserved in supposedly 25-40-
million-year-old amber (k). The same bacteria, Bacillus, are found
alive in rocks allegedly 250 million and 650 million years old (l).
Italian scientists have recovered 78 different types of dormant, but
living, bacteria in two meteorites that are presumed to be 4.5 billion
years old (m). If one accepts these old ages for rocks, then they must
also accept that some bacteria are practically immortal-an obviously
absurd conclusion. (Because these "old" bacteria and the various DNA
specimens closely match those of today, little evolution has
occurred.)
Why should an organism make significant changes when it is, apparently,
perfectly adapted to its environment? You clearly don't understand anything
about evolution except for the fact it invalidates your religious beliefs.
Bacillus isn't a species, it's a genus. I doubt that the species
found in bees from 40 million years ago is still extant.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
21 Oct 2007 07:01:29 AM |
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On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:32:31 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:34:44 -0400, Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:10:09 -0700, Pahu <pahu70@yahoo.com> wrote:
Old DNA, Bacteria, and Proteins? 3
Bacteria. Even living bacterial spores have been recovered, cultured,
and identified in intestines of bees preserved in supposedly 25-40-
million-year-old amber (k). The same bacteria, Bacillus, are found
alive in rocks allegedly 250 million and 650 million years old (l).
Italian scientists have recovered 78 different types of dormant, but
living, bacteria in two meteorites that are presumed to be 4.5 billion
years old (m). If one accepts these old ages for rocks, then they must
also accept that some bacteria are practically immortal-an obviously
absurd conclusion. (Because these "old" bacteria and the various DNA
specimens closely match those of today, little evolution has
occurred.)
Why should an organism make significant changes when it is, apparently,
perfectly adapted to its environment? You clearly don't understand anything
about evolution except for the fact it invalidates your religious beliefs.
Bacillus isn't a species, it's a genus. I doubt that the species
found in bees from 40 million years ago is still extant.
Yes, but he probably expects that evolution would have given them legs and
teeth by now.
Ben
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Science Disproves Evolution |
21 Oct 2007 02:27:07 PM |
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On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:01:29 -0400, Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:32:31 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:34:44 -0400, Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:10:09 -0700, Pahu <pahu70@yahoo.com> wrote:
Old DNA, Bacteria, and Proteins? 3
Bacteria. Even living bacterial spores have been recovered, cultured,
and identified in intestines of bees preserved in supposedly 25-40-
million-year-old amber (k). The same bacteria, Bacillus, are found
alive in rocks allegedly 250 million and 650 million years old (l).
Italian scientists have recovered 78 different types of dormant, but
living, bacteria in two meteorites that are presumed to be 4.5 billion
years old (m). If one accepts these old ages for rocks, then they must
also accept that some bacteria are practically immortal-an obviously
absurd conclusion. (Because these "old" bacteria and the various DNA
specimens closely match those of today, little evolution has
occurred.)
Why should an organism make significant changes when it is, apparently,
perfectly adapted to its environment? You clearly don't understand anything
about evolution except for the fact it invalidates your religious beliefs.
Bacillus isn't a species, it's a genus. I doubt that the species
found in bees from 40 million years ago is still extant.
Yes, but he probably expects that evolution would have given them legs and
teeth by now.
Bacteria with legs and teeth? That would totally disprove any current
theory of evolution. :)
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains
premature today."
- Isaac Asimov
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