| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Carol Lee Smith" |
| Date: |
07 Jun 2004 03:59:09 PM |
| Object: |
Scopes II decided |
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation
v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School District, Rhea
County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County Executive for Rhea County,
Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
For a recap on the case, read the press release describing the February
2002 federal court decision in favor of the Freedom From Religion
Foundation's challenge:
http://www.ffrf.org/news/edgar.html
=====
This E-News is was sent to me courtesy of the Freedom From Religion
Foundation, PO Box 750, Madison WI 53701. (www.ffrf.org)
The Freedom From Religion Foundation is a national association of
freethinkers (atheists and agnostics) working to keep church and state
separate since 1978. For more information, go to http://www.ffrf.org.
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| User: "Aron-Ra" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
07 Jun 2004 11:27:23 PM |
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"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1040607155704.3068I-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation
v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School District, Rhea
County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County Executive for Rhea County,
Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
Did anyone notice that this court claims that the scopes trial was "mythic"?
"The litigation in this case took place in Rhea County-the site of a mythic
Scopes trial in the early twentieth century."
Does that mean they're claiming it never happened?
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
08 Jun 2004 09:30:33 AM |
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"Aron-Ra" <ilcunl@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1040607155704.3068I-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation
v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School District, Rhea
County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County Executive for Rhea County,
Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
Did anyone notice that this court claims that the scopes trial was "mythic"?
"The litigation in this case took place in Rhea County-the site of a mythic
Scopes trial in the early twentieth century."
Does that mean they're claiming it never happened?
That's an interesting question.
What's also interesting is the "letters to the editor" citing within
the Court of Appeals Document.
{
For instance, in a letter to the editor of a local paper, one Nancy
Rogers wrote:
[Y]ou are [] cowards because you won’t give us your name. You know the
people in Rhea County would come up to your face and tell you what we
think of you. I would love to come face to face with you because yes I
would tell you what I thought of you and I would let my sons tell you
too. You have hurt my sons and I will not let no one [sic] hurt one of
my children. We might not know you but someone higher does [,] and yes
you will answer to him.
}
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| User: "386sx" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
08 Jun 2004 12:10:23 AM |
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Aron-Ra writes:
Carol Lee Smith wrote:
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
Did anyone notice that this court claims that the scopes trial was
"mythic"?
"The litigation in this case took place in Rhea County-the site of a
mythic Scopes trial in the early twentieth century."
Does that mean they're claiming it never happened?
I think he means something like mythic proportions, or perhaps he means that
there is the legendary story of the Scopes trial, and then there's the real
story. In the footnote, he defers to Edward J. Larson's book on the
subject.
1 The litigation in this case took place in Rhea County—the site of a
mythic Scopes trial in the early twentieth century. Bryan College is
named after one of the principal lawyers in the case—Williams Jennings
Bryan. See Edward J. Larson, Summer for the Gods: The Scopes Trial and
America’s Continuing Debate over Science and Religion (1997).
Try:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=%22Summer+for+the+Gods%22+mythic
http://www.google.com/search?&q=%22Summer+for+the+Gods%22+mythic+-proportions
--
"(note: several logical steps missing. Ignore these)." -- Heidi Bond
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| User: "Richard Clayton" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
08 Jun 2004 06:40:37 AM |
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Aron-Ra wrote:
"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1040607155704.3068I-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation
v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School District, Rhea
County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County Executive for Rhea County,
Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
Did anyone notice that this court claims that the scopes trial was "mythic"?
"The litigation in this case took place in Rhea County-the site of a mythic
Scopes trial in the early twentieth century."
Does that mean they're claiming it never happened?
WERE YOU THERE?!
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
"I wasn't aware the Tokyo police employed uneducated, paranoid,
delusional foreign delinquents."
"In my case, they made an exception."
-- MegaTokyo
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| User: "BBS" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
08 Jun 2004 01:09:31 PM |
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Carol Lee Smith <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1040607155704.3068I-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu:
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion
Foundation v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School
District, Rhea County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County
Executive for Rhea County, Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
<snip>
I thought it was a pretty interesting decision to read. I think they're
very reasonable on how the county's behavior failed the Lemon test.
In reading it, I was struck by the reference to Larkin v. Grendels' Den,
Inc. Apparantly, Massachusetts had a law permitting a church to prevent
liquor licenses from being issued to anyone within 500 feet of their
building. I'd not heard of this before; I can't believe that the case was
settled as recently as 1982. It's mind-boggling.
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| User: "catshark" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
08 Jun 2004 06:22:59 PM |
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On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 18:09:31 +0000 (UTC), BBS <b.solie@insitebb.blah.com>
wrote:
Carol Lee Smith <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1040607155704.3068I-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu:
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion
Foundation v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School
District, Rhea County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County
Executive for Rhea County, Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
<snip>
I thought it was a pretty interesting decision to read. I think they're
very reasonable on how the county's behavior failed the Lemon test.
In reading it, I was struck by the reference to Larkin v. Grendels' Den,
Inc. Apparantly, Massachusetts had a law permitting a church to prevent
liquor licenses from being issued to anyone within 500 feet of their
building. I'd not heard of this before; I can't believe that the case was
settled as recently as 1982. It's mind-boggling.
Actually, zoning laws to keep certain businesses away from residential
areas or away from schools and even churches are still out there. Indeed,
the Larkin case affirms "the power of a state to regulate the environment
in the vicinity of schools, churches, hospitals, and the like by exercise
of reasonable zoning laws."
<http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=459&invol=116>
The problem in that case was giving the *churches* the right to decide, by
veto, and without having to give any reasons, findings of fact or
conclusions as to why the business should be denied a licence. In effect,
the State was turning over a *governmental* function to the churches, while
not applying to them the safeguards the State was subject to.
---------------
J. Pieret
---------------
LAWYER, n.
One skilled in circumvention of the law.
- Ambrose Bierce -
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| User: "ArWeGod" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
08 Jun 2004 07:04:54 PM |
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"catshark" <catshark@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2phcc0tqng03sducgj5ed5c7fm3kcma9ou@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 18:09:31 +0000 (UTC), BBS <b.solie@insitebb.blah.com>
wrote:
Actually, zoning laws to keep certain businesses away from residential
areas or away from schools and even churches are still out there. Indeed,
the Larkin case affirms "the power of a state to regulate the environment
in the vicinity of schools, churches, hospitals, and the like by exercise
of reasonable zoning laws."
Indeed, many a Strip^h^h^h^h^h Gentleman's Club has been destroyed by
property owners building residential complexes within a legal zone, then
forcing the Club to shut down, even tho they were there first. It seems that
there should be an inverse law - don't build a school near my strip joint!
--
ArWeInsane
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| User: "Daniel Harper" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
09 Jun 2004 12:45:12 AM |
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On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 00:04:54 +0000, ArWeGod wrote:
"catshark" <catshark@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2phcc0tqng03sducgj5ed5c7fm3kcma9ou@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 18:09:31 +0000 (UTC), BBS <b.solie@insitebb.blah.com>
wrote:
Actually, zoning laws to keep certain businesses away from residential
areas or away from schools and even churches are still out there.
Indeed, the Larkin case affirms "the power of a state to regulate the
environment in the vicinity of schools, churches, hospitals, and the
like by exercise of reasonable zoning laws."
Indeed, many a Strip^h^h^h^h^h Gentleman's Club has been destroyed by
property owners building residential complexes within a legal zone, then
forcing the Club to shut down, even tho they were there first. It seems
that there should be an inverse law - don't build a school near my strip
joint!
Or, if you do, you don't get the right to complain about it.
--
Finding a scientific theory of creation is a bit like parsing /dev/null.
--Daniel Harper
(change terra to earth for email)
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| User: "mvillanu" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
08 Jun 2004 12:39:12 AM |
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Carol Lee Smith <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.OSF.3.96.1040607155704.3068I-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>...
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation
v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School District, Rhea
County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County Executive for Rhea County,
Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
For a recap on the case, read the press release describing the February
2002 federal court decision in favor of the Freedom From Religion
Foundation's challenge:
http://www.ffrf.org/news/edgar.html
=====
I'm also glad the court allowed the plaintiffs to remain anonymous. I
can only imagine what would have happened to the children if their
parents identities became known.
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| User: "Harry K" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
08 Jun 2004 09:13:44 AM |
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(mvillanu) wrote in message news:<dc4a405f.0406072139.55c71429@posting.google.com>...
Carol Lee Smith <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.OSF.3.96.1040607155704.3068I-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>...
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation
v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School District, Rhea
County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County Executive for Rhea County,
Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
For a recap on the case, read the press release describing the February
2002 federal court decision in favor of the Freedom From Religion
Foundation's challenge:
http://www.ffrf.org/news/edgar.html
=====
I'm also glad the court allowed the plaintiffs to remain anonymous. I
can only imagine what would have happened to the children if their
parents identities became known.
Exactly. Unfortunately, there is enough information in the decision
to easily identify the kids and family. Lists both numbers of kids,
grades and sex. What I find amazing is that this went on for
"decades" before someone blew the whistle.
Harry K
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| User: "VoiceOfReason" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
07 Jun 2004 09:54:40 PM |
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Carol Lee Smith <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.OSF.3.96.1040607155704.3068I-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>...
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation
v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School District, Rhea
County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County Executive for Rhea County,
Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
For a recap on the case, read the press release describing the February
2002 federal court decision in favor of the Freedom From Religion
Foundation's challenge:
http://www.ffrf.org/news/edgar.html
And the winner is: the Constitution! *thunderous applause*
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
07 Jun 2004 04:31:18 PM |
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Carol Lee Smith wrote:
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation
v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School District, Rhea
County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County Executive for Rhea County,
Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
Excellent news!
--
Gregory Gadow for Washington State House
Independent, District 43
http://www.gregory-gadow.info
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| User: "Klaus Hellnick" |
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| Title: Re: Scopes II decided |
07 Jun 2004 08:34:59 PM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:40C4DEC7.BC627637@serv.net...
Carol Lee Smith wrote:
http://ffrf.org/news/?n=scopesIIwin.txt
The case is John Doe, Mary Roe, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation
v. Sue Porter, Superintendent of the Rhea County School District, Rhea
County Board of Education, Jimmy Wilkey, County Executive for Rhea
County,
Tennessee, 02-5316/5823, June 7, 2004.
To read the short decision go to:
http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=04a0171p.06
Excellent news!
--
Gregory Gadow for Washington State House
Independent, District 43
http://www.gregory-gadow.info
It is astounding that the classes were even taught in the first place! I do
not always agree with court rulings (especially the 9th Ckt. Court of
Appeals), but this ruling is 100% correct.
Klaus
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