Religions > Atheism > Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ...
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Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
28 Nov 2005 10:43:11 AM |
| Object: |
Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ... |
Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-cscience27nov27,0,6164220.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
Sun-Sentinel.com - Fort Lauderdale,FL,USA
As Broward County schools shop for a new science textbook this year, one
of the options is a biology book that could plunge the district into a
roiling national debate over the origin of man.
The high school text, Biology: The Dynamics of Life, says on Page 388:
"Many of the world's major religions teach that life was created on Earth
by a supreme being. The followers of these religions believe that life
could only have arisen through the direct action of a divine force.
.... the book, they'll drag the controversy home, said Joe Conn, a spokesman
for the Washington, DC-based Americans United for the Separation of Church
and State. ...
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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| User: "Robi" |
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| Title: Re: Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ... |
29 Nov 2005 10:13:58 PM |
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wrote:
The high school text, Biology: The Dynamics of Life, says on Page 388:
"Many of the world's major religions teach that life was created on Earth
by a supreme being. The followers of these religions believe that life
could only have arisen through the direct action of a divine force."
Seems like nothing but a statement of fact to me. Does the next
sentence read something like "Biology shows these beliefs to be a pile
of crap"?
I never understand the debate about this stuff in America. When I
studied A level Biology my teacher was a Lay Brother, teaching in a
Roman Catholic school. He was quite happy to teach the proper
curriculem.
It seems to me that the creationists are working against their
religion. The amount of evidence for evolution is steadily increasing
and any gaps are getting smaller. At some point the truth will become
irrefutable. What will they be left with then? If creation is contrary
to evolution, but evolution is shown to be proven beyond doubt, then it
must mean there never was a god. The approach of the Roman Catholic
church is far more sensible in my opinion. They are far more likely to
keep their jobs.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ... |
30 Nov 2005 12:30:30 AM |
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On 29 Nov 2005 14:13:58 -0800, "Robi" <robi_tola@hotmail.com> wrote:
buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
The high school text, Biology: The Dynamics of Life, says on Page 388:
"Many of the world's major religions teach that life was created on Earth
by a supreme being. The followers of these religions believe that life
could only have arisen through the direct action of a divine force."
Seems like nothing but a statement of fact to me. Does the next
sentence read something like "Biology shows these beliefs to be a pile
of crap"?
I never understand the debate about this stuff in America. When I
studied A level Biology my teacher was a Lay Brother, teaching in a
Roman Catholic school. He was quite happy to teach the proper
curriculem.
It seems to me that the creationists are working against their
religion. The amount of evidence for evolution is steadily increasing
and any gaps are getting smaller. At some point the truth will become
irrefutable. What will they be left with then? If creation is contrary
It already is irrefutable.
As I have iterated, stock breeding pedigree records that stretch back
hundreds of years are irrefutable documentary proof of evolution at
work.
(Although I have been told by one fundy whom I cornered with this
fact, that these tons of written and notarised records are all in my
mind!
It was his irrational parting shot before he changed sock-puppets.)
to evolution, but evolution is shown to be proven beyond doubt, then it
must mean there never was a god. The approach of the Roman Catholic
church is far more sensible in my opinion. They are far more likely to
keep their jobs.
.
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| User: "erikc" |
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| Title: Re: Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ... |
01 Dec 2005 10:30:46 PM |
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On 29 Nov 2005 14:13:58 -0800, "Robi" <robi_tola@hotmail.com> wrote:
buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
The high school text, Biology: The Dynamics of Life, says on Page 388:
"Many of the world's major religions teach that life was created on Earth
by a supreme being. The followers of these religions believe that life
could only have arisen through the direct action of a divine force."
Seems like nothing but a statement of fact to me. Does the next
sentence read something like "Biology shows these beliefs to be a pile
of crap"?
I never understand the debate about this stuff in America. When I
studied A level Biology my teacher was a Lay Brother, teaching in a
Roman Catholic school. He was quite happy to teach the proper
curriculem.
It seems to me that the creationists are working against their
religion. The amount of evidence for evolution is steadily increasing
and any gaps are getting smaller. At some point the truth will become
irrefutable. What will they be left with then? If creation is contrary
to evolution, but evolution is shown to be proven beyond doubt, then it
must mean there never was a god. The approach of the Roman Catholic
church is far more sensible in my opinion. They are far more likely to
keep their jobs.
Actually, most American christians accept evolution. It is the far-right wing
raving jeezopath trogdolytes that are opposing the teaching of evolution.
Although small in number, they are very loud and have successfully infiltrated
and subverted the American political process.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but they want a "Christian Taliban" right
here in the USA.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
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| User: "fred" |
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| Title: Re: Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ...; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
28 Nov 2005 06:09:08 PM |
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alt.education removed.
buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-cscience27nov27,0=
,6164220.story?coll=3Dsfla-home-headlines
Sun-Sentinel.com - Fort Lauderdale,FL,USA
As Broward County schools shop for a new science textbook this year, one
of the options is a biology book that could plunge the district into a
roiling national debate over the origin of man.
The high school text, Biology: The Dynamics of Life, says on Page 388:
"Many of the world's major religions teach that life was created on Earth
by a supreme being. The followers of these religions believe that life
could only have arisen through the direct action of a divine force.
... the book, they'll drag the controversy home, said Joe Conn, a spokesm=
an
for the Washington, DC-based Americans United for the Separation of Church
and State. ...
"Critics call it a thinly veiled attempt to insert the Bible into
public schools. If church and state are to be separate, they say,
intelligent design must be barred from the classroom."
The above extract from the referenced article is just another unfocused
reference to the Constitution that sidesteps mention of the checks and
balances of the 1st, 10th and 14th Amendments with respect to our
religious freedoms.
"Article 10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the
States respectively, or to the people."
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS =B7 Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why =
"a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisne=
r,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ...; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
28 Nov 2005 08:12:54 PM |
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On 28 Nov 2005 10:09:08 -0800, "fred"
<clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
The high school text, Biology: The Dynamics of Life, says on Page 388:
"Many of the world's major religions teach that life was created on Earth
by a supreme being. The followers of these religions believe that life
could only have arisen through the direct action of a divine force.
... the book, they'll drag the controversy home, said Joe Conn, a spokesman
for the Washington, DC-based Americans United for the Separation of Church
and State. ...
"Critics call it a thinly veiled attempt to insert the Bible into
public schools. If church and state are to be separate, they say,
intelligent design must be barred from the classroom."
The above extract from the referenced article is just another unfocused
reference to the Constitution that sidesteps mention of the checks and
balances of the 1st, 10th and 14th Amendments with respect to our
religious freedoms.
It's a fucking BIOLOGY book, you moron.
It's a BIOLOGY book in a GOVERNMENT classroom
No such action would be taken if the page were to be
discussed in a PHILOSOPHY class even if in a GOVERNMENT
classroom
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| User: "fred" |
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| Title: Re: Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ...; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
28 Nov 2005 11:03:27 PM |
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wrote:
On 28 Nov 2005 10:09:08 -0800, "fred"
<clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
The high school text, Biology: The Dynamics of Life, says on Page 388:
"Many of the world's major religions teach that life was created on Earth
by a supreme being. The followers of these religions believe that life
could only have arisen through the direct action of a divine force.
... the book, they'll drag the controversy home, said Joe Conn, a spokesman
for the Washington, DC-based Americans United for the Separation of Church
and State. ...
"Critics call it a thinly veiled attempt to insert the Bible into
public schools. If church and state are to be separate, they say,
intelligent design must be barred from the classroom."
The above extract from the referenced article is just another unfocused
reference to the Constitution that sidesteps mention of the checks and
balances of the 1st, 10th and 14th Amendments with respect to our
religious freedoms.
It's a fucking BIOLOGY book, you moron.
It's a BIOLOGY book in a GOVERNMENT classroom
No such action would be taken if the page were to be
discussed in a PHILOSOPHY class even if in a GOVERNMENT
classroom
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
.
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| User: "cpt banjo" |
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| Title: Re: Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ...; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
28 Nov 2005 11:40:30 PM |
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fred wrote:
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
What an absurd analogy. Unlike human beings, who should be treated
equally before the law, ideas are not created equally and are not of
equal worth.
.
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| User: "fred" |
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| Title: Re: Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ...; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
29 Nov 2005 12:48:48 AM |
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cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
What an absurd analogy. Unlike human beings, who should be treated
equally before the law, ideas are not created equally and are not of
equal worth.
Whoa! That is the most ill-conceived, anti-free speech statement that
I've ever heard.
.
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| User: "cpt banjo" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
29 Nov 2005 01:55:55 AM |
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fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
What an absurd analogy. Unlike human beings, who should be treated
equally before the law, ideas are not created equally and are not of
equal worth.
Whoa! That is the most ill-conceived, anti-free speech statement that
I've ever heard.
Fred, your stupidity knows no bounds. Are you seriously maintaining
that "2 + 2 = 7" is of equal worth with "2 + 2 = 4" or that the
statement "All African-Americans are subhumans who should immediately
be enslaved" is equally as valid as "All people should be treated
equally by the law, regardless of race"? Gawd, if it were up to you,
the schools would be forced to teach the geocentric model of the solar
system, astrology, phrenology, flat-earth geography, and every other
crackpot idea under the sun.
Remember, your right to be heard doesn't include the right to be taken
seriously.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
29 Nov 2005 02:23:01 AM |
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On 28 Nov 2005 17:55:55 -0800, "cpt banjo"
<cptbanjo@aol.com> wrote:
fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
What an absurd analogy. Unlike human beings, who should be treated
equally before the law, ideas are not created equally and are not of
equal worth.
Whoa! That is the most ill-conceived, anti-free speech statement that
I've ever heard.
Fred, your stupidity knows no bounds. Are you seriously maintaining
that "2 + 2 = 7" is of equal worth with "2 + 2 = 4" or that the
statement "All African-Americans are subhumans who should immediately
be enslaved" is equally as valid as "All people should be treated
equally by the law, regardless of race"? Gawd, if it were up to you,
the schools would be forced to teach the geocentric model of the solar
system, astrology, phrenology, flat-earth geography, and every other
crackpot idea under the sun.
Remember, your right to be heard doesn't include the right to be taken
seriously.
Yeah, but comic relief like freddie don't come along
every day.
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| User: "fred" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
29 Nov 2005 05:17:08 AM |
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cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
What an absurd analogy. Unlike human beings, who should be treated
equally before the law, ideas are not created equally and are not of
equal worth.
Whoa! That is the most ill-conceived, anti-free speech statement that
I've ever heard.
Fred, your stupidity knows no bounds. Are you seriously maintaining
that "2 + 2 = 7" is of equal worth with "2 + 2 = 4" or that the
statement "All African-Americans are subhumans who should immediately
be enslaved" is equally as valid as "All people should be treated
equally by the law, regardless of race"? Gawd, if it were up to you,
the schools would be forced to teach the geocentric model of the solar
system, astrology, phrenology, flat-earth geography, and every other
crackpot idea under the sun.
Remember, your right to be heard doesn't include the right to be taken
seriously.
You're twisting the issue of free speech. I'm not arguing that people
don't say hateful things. But it's better to let people ignore the
foolish things that other people say instead of allowing the government
decide what people can and cannot say.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
29 Nov 2005 01:20:49 PM |
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No one's saying that the Government should suppress crackpot ideas or
punish those who espouse them. But your argument that the schools'
refusal to teach certain ideas somehow suppresses the free speech
rights of those who believe in the ideas is utter nonsense.
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| User: "fred" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
30 Nov 2005 02:16:39 AM |
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wrote:
No one's saying that the Government should suppress crackpot ideas or
punish those who espouse them. But your argument that the schools'
refusal to teach certain ideas somehow suppresses the free speech
rights of those who believe in the ideas is utter nonsense.
Consider that your above statement is somewhat contradictory.
Also, regardless that the 9th Circuit Appeals Court "thinks different,"
tax paying parents have the right to regulate what their children are
taught in public schools:
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation
of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical."
--Thomas Jefferson: Bill for Religious Freedom, 1779. Papers 2:545
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| User: "cpt banjo" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
30 Nov 2005 04:05:01 AM |
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Hey, if the taxpayers want to have the schools teach that the sun
revolves around the earth, they can get their way. But that wouldn't
detract one iota from the undenialble fact that in such a case the
taxpayers would be idiots.
Btw, there is nothing contradictory about my statement. You are simply
incapable of analythic thought.
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| User: "cpt banjo" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
30 Nov 2005 04:06:03 AM |
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Please excuse the typos..it's quite late.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
29 Nov 2005 09:25:31 PM |
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On 28 Nov 2005 21:17:08 -0800, "fred"
<clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
You're twisting the issue of free speech. I'm not arguing that people
don't say hateful things. But it's better to let people ignore the
foolish things that other people say instead of allowing the government
decide what people can and cannot say.
Christsakes, Freddie
If you had your way, the state would tell you what to
say---at least what form of religion it would recognize
as "legitimate".
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
29 Nov 2005 09:15:05 AM |
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fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
What an absurd analogy. Unlike human beings, who should be treated
equally before the law, ideas are not created equally and are not of
equal worth.
Whoa! That is the most ill-conceived, anti-free speech statement that
I've ever heard.
Fred, your stupidity knows no bounds. Are you seriously maintaining
that "2 + 2 = 7" is of equal worth with "2 + 2 = 4" or that the
statement "All African-Americans are subhumans who should immediately
be enslaved" is equally as valid as "All people should be treated
equally by the law, regardless of race"? Gawd, if it were up to you,
the schools would be forced to teach the geocentric model of the solar
system, astrology, phrenology, flat-earth geography, and every other
crackpot idea under the sun.
Remember, your right to be heard doesn't include the right to be taken
seriously.
You're twisting the issue of free speech. I'm not arguing that people
don't say hateful things. But it's better to let people ignore the
foolish things that other people say instead of allowing the government
decide what people can and cannot say.
But not in public school classes.
Court Decisions
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-debates.html#court
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Creationists: Debates, Gatherings & Court Decisions |
29 Nov 2005 12:16:24 PM |
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Creationists: Debates, Gatherings & Court Decisions
Debates and Gatherings...
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-debates.html
Debating Creationists: Some Pointers
The creationists' strength lies in their debating and rhetorical
skills. In separate accounts, Scott and Trott describe the tactics of the
creationist and provide some pointers for anyone preparing to take one on.
How Not to Argue With Creationists
Certain tactics should be avoided in public debates with creationists,
as this continuation of an exchange between James Lippard and Ian Plimer
illustrates.
Public Debate with a Creationist: An Account
An account given by one of the participants of a public debate with
creationist Ian Taylor of the Creation Science Association of Ontario. This
event was notable not only for what transpired at the debate itself, but
for the underhanded tactics used by the organizers before and after the
debate.
A Debate between Richard Milton and Jim Foley
An email debate on the topic of human evolution between
anti-evolutionist Richard Milton and Fossil Hominids author Jim Foley.
Duane Gish at Rutgers University
This exchance between Richard Trott and Duane Gish of the Institute for
Creation Research appeared in a student newspaper at Rutgers University.
The Saladin-Gish II Debate [offsite]
Transcript of the 1988 debate held at Auburn University between the
ICR's Duane Gish and Professor Ken Saladin of Georgia College.
Account of a Creationist Conference in Oregon
A first-hand account of the 1993 International Creation Conference held
in Beaverton, Oregon. This article describes a few of the arguments
creationists are currently using as part of their arsenal; some of them
could cause the more informed scientist to erupt in giggles.
"Sons of Light": A Visit to the Sixth European Creationist Congress
An account of the 1995 Sixth European Creationist Congress in the
Netherlands. This author gives the reader a look at creationist activity in
Europe.
Age of the Earth: Debate Between Chris Stassen and Bob Bales
This is the result of an attempted "formal" Usenet debate, with orderly
turns between speakers, length limits, and a predetermined topic (the age
of the earth). The participants were Bob Bales and Chris Stassen, both
high-profile talk.origins readers at the time of the debate.
The Online Miller-Johnson Debate [offsite]
Biologist Kenneth Miller debates creationist lawyer Phillip Johnson on
the validity of biological evolution. The online debate forum was provided
by PBS's Nova program.
Kansas Evolution Hearings: Transcripts of an Intelligently-Designed
"Kangaroo Court"
A transcript of the "science hearings" held by a subcommittee of the
Kansas Board of Education composed of three creationists in May, 2005. A
background article and many relevant links are also provided.
Court Decisions
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-debates.html#court
McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education
Read the U.S. District Court decision in which "balanced treatment" for
creationism and evolution in Arkansas public school science classrooms was
ruled unconstitutional.
Edwards v. Aguillard: U.S. Supreme Court Decision
Read the U.S. Supreme Court decision dealing with creationism in public
school science classrooms. The majority opinions and the dissenting opinion
by Justice Antonin Scalia are provided along with the amicus curiae brief
filed by 72 Nobel Prize winning scientists.
Epperson v. Arkansas: U.S. Supreme Court Decision
Read the U.S. Supreme Court case which ruled unconstitutional
Arkansas's law forbidding the teaching of evolution in state-supported
schools.
Peloza v. Capistrano Unified School District
California public school teacher John Peloza sued his school district,
claiming he should not be required to teach evolution or refrain from
teaching about his religious beliefs. The U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of
Appeals ruled against him on the substantive portions of his claim.
Daniel v. Waters
Biology teachers, parents, and National Association of Biology Teachers
sued in 1975 to overturn Tennessee's "balanced treatment" law. The U.S.
Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals held that requiring creationism to be taught
and requiring disclaimers about evolution violated the First Amendment.
Wright v. Houston I.S.D.
Houston, Texas, students sued to prevent the school district from
teaching evolution, believing it infringed their First Amendment rights.
The federal courts dismissed the case for failure to state a claim upon
which relief could be based.
Selman v. Cobb County School District
The decision of the district court stricking down a Cobb County,
Georgia requirement that a sticker with a disclaimer be placed on all
textbooks that discuss evolution. The amicus curiae brief filed by several
pro-science organizations is also included.
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
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THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
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| User: "fred" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
29 Nov 2005 10:06:09 PM |
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maff wrote:
fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
What an absurd analogy. Unlike human beings, who should be treated
equally before the law, ideas are not created equally and are not of
equal worth.
Whoa! That is the most ill-conceived, anti-free speech statement that
I've ever heard.
Fred, your stupidity knows no bounds. Are you seriously maintaining
that "2 + 2 = 7" is of equal worth with "2 + 2 = 4" or that the
statement "All African-Americans are subhumans who should immediately
be enslaved" is equally as valid as "All people should be treated
equally by the law, regardless of race"? Gawd, if it were up to you,
the schools would be forced to teach the geocentric model of the solar
system, astrology, phrenology, flat-earth geography, and every other
crackpot idea under the sun.
Remember, your right to be heard doesn't include the right to be taken
seriously.
You're twisting the issue of free speech. I'm not arguing that people
don't say hateful things. But it's better to let people ignore the
foolish things that other people say instead of allowing the government
decide what people can and cannot say.
But not in public school classes.
Do you also tell people where to sit on busses based on their skin
color?
Court Decisions
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-debates.html#court
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: In Fred's World, All Ideas Have Merit |
29 Nov 2005 10:32:42 PM |
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fred wrote:
maff wrote:
fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
What an absurd analogy. Unlike human beings, who should be treated
equally before the law, ideas are not created equally and are not of
equal worth.
Whoa! That is the most ill-conceived, anti-free speech statement that
I've ever heard.
Fred, your stupidity knows no bounds. Are you seriously maintaining
that "2 + 2 = 7" is of equal worth with "2 + 2 = 4" or that the
statement "All African-Americans are subhumans who should immediately
be enslaved" is equally as valid as "All people should be treated
equally by the law, regardless of race"? Gawd, if it were up to you,
the schools would be forced to teach the geocentric model of the solar
system, astrology, phrenology, flat-earth geography, and every other
crackpot idea under the sun.
Remember, your right to be heard doesn't include the right to be taken
seriously.
You're twisting the issue of free speech. I'm not arguing that people
don't say hateful things. But it's better to let people ignore the
foolish things that other people say instead of allowing the government
decide what people can and cannot say.
But not in public school classes.
Do you also tell people where to sit on busses based on their skin
color?
It was the 'Bible Belt' fundamentalists who formed the bulwark for
segregation and 'Jim Crow'.
It was they who opposed the Civil Rights Acts. It was they who formed
private Christian fundamentalist schools to oppose integration.
Court Decisions
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-debates.html#court
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Search for new biology text may plunge Broward into debate over ...; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
29 Nov 2005 10:36:24 PM |
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fred wrote:
cpt banjo wrote:
fred wrote:
Not only is the statement in the biology book a reasonable statement of
fact regardless that it refers to religion, but unthinkingly putting
tests on reasonable speech as you are doing is unconstitutionally
limiting free speech; it is arguably no different than telling people
where to sit in a bus based on their skin color.
What an absurd analogy. Unlike human beings, who should be treated
equally before the law, ideas are not created equally and are not of
equal worth.
Whoa! That is the most ill-conceived, anti-free speech statement that
I've ever heard.
That's what Christian slavers, lynchers and segregationists also said.
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