| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mark D J. Mark D" |
| Date: |
31 Oct 2006 08:16:38 AM |
| Object: |
'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
M.
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| User: "DaveJr" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 12:55:38 PM |
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"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
M.
They also have been observed having 'funerals'.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 01:16:53 PM |
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DaveJr wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
M.
They also have been observed having 'funerals'.
And they regularly revisit the remains of their dead relatives. They
sniff, touch, and stroke the bones with their feet and trunks.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 01:31:55 PM |
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"skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> wrote in message
news:1162322213.822693.171270@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
DaveJr wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
M.
They also have been observed having 'funerals'.
And they regularly revisit the remains of their dead relatives. They
sniff, touch, and stroke the bones with their feet and trunks.
Awww!
I'd like to meet an elephant. They seem cool!
M.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 01:27:25 PM |
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In article <1162322213.822693.171270@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> writes:
DaveJr wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
M.
They also have been observed having 'funerals'.
And they regularly revisit the remains of their dead relatives. They
sniff, touch, and stroke the bones with their feet and trunks.
Thus demonstrating that Lord Ganesh created them in His image.
-- cary
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
04 Nov 2006 09:07:10 PM |
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On 31 Oct 2006 11:16:53 -0800, "skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> wrote
in alt.atheism
DaveJr wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
M.
They also have been observed having 'funerals'.
And they regularly revisit the remains of their dead relatives. They
sniff, touch, and stroke the bones with their feet and trunks.
If the death is at the right time of the year they can have a 'wake,'
too!
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 04:28:03 PM |
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:55:38 -0700, "DaveJr" <davesbrain@qwest.net>
wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
M.
They also have been observed having 'funerals'.
And they've been observed using tools, such as using branches to sweep
away their tracks when the herd is being stalked by poachers.
There was a case several years ago, in Sri Lanka, I believe, where a
small herd of semi-wild elephants had taken to raiding banana
plantations at night for an easy meal. The villagers tracked down the
elephants and tied large wooden bells around their necks to serve as
an alarm of sorts so the elephants couldn't sneak onto the plantations
undetected. Not to be outdone, the elephants went down to the river
and packed the bells with mud, effectively silencing them. <G>
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 07:34:33 PM |
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:28:03 -0500 John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> said
the following in alt.atheism and I was immediately reminded of 1,000
Chinchillas singing Handel's "Messiah" for some reason...
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:55:38 -0700, "DaveJr" <davesbrain@qwest.net>
wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
M.
They also have been observed having 'funerals'.
And they've been observed using tools, such as using branches to sweep
away their tracks when the herd is being stalked by poachers.
There was a case several years ago, in Sri Lanka, I believe, where a
small herd of semi-wild elephants had taken to raiding banana
plantations at night for an easy meal. The villagers tracked down the
elephants and tied large wooden bells around their necks to serve as
an alarm of sorts so the elephants couldn't sneak onto the plantations
undetected. Not to be outdone, the elephants went down to the river
and packed the bells with mud, effectively silencing them. <G>
Even better, elephants have been known to raid villages for beer.
They are quite intelligent, and need to be protected.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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| User: "Ghod" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 12:37:44 PM |
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"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
Someday, perhaps even the creationists will rise so high.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
04 Nov 2006 09:05:43 PM |
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:37:44 -0600, "Ghod" <ghod@ameritech.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
Someday, perhaps even the creationists will rise so high.
GMTA...:)
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 04:07:04 PM |
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:37:44 -0600, "Ghod" <ghod@ameritech.net> wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
Someday, perhaps even the creationists will rise so high.
An atheist who believes in miracles?
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence.
- (Will Rogers)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Ghod" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 04:28:49 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:q7ifk25os370t8v3muaqq51761a4n53l5u@4ax.com...
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:37:44 -0600, "Ghod" <ghod@ameritech.net>
wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
Someday, perhaps even the creationists will rise so high.
An atheist who believes in miracles?
Merely an eternal optimist.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 07:00:27 PM |
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:28:49 -0600, "Ghod" <ghod@ameritech.net> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:q7ifk25os370t8v3muaqq51761a4n53l5u@4ax.com...
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:37:44 -0600, "Ghod" <ghod@ameritech.net>
wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
Someday, perhaps even the creationists will rise so high.
An atheist who believes in miracles?
Merely an eternal optimist.
Optimism is that, even there's no God, you'll go to heaven when you
die. Creationists rising above the slime would take more than the
mere creator of everything.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I don't try to imagine a God; it suffices to stand in awe of the structure of the world
insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it."
- Letter to S. Flesch, April 16, 1954; Einstein Archive 30-1154
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
31 Oct 2006 01:10:55 PM |
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:37:44 -0600, Ghod wrote:
"Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com> wrote in message
news:aVI1h.31780$w07.9083@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
Someday, perhaps even the creationists will rise so high.
Don't hold your breath...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"...otherwise, we're looking at the potential
of this kind of world:.... a world in which
oil reserves are controlled by radicals in order
to extract blackmail from the West..." [George Bush]
Wait... oil reserves?
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: 'Self-awareness' observed -- in *elephants*...! |
04 Nov 2006 09:05:21 PM |
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:16:38 GMT, "Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6100430.stm
Tuesday, 31 October 2006, 03:35 GMT
Elephants' jumbo mirror ability
Elephants can recognise their own reflection, showing self-awareness
seen before only in humans, great apes and bottlenose dolphins,
scientists say.
US researchers made the discovery by studying the behaviour of Asian
elephants in front of a tall mirror.
One of the animals repeatedly touched a white cross painted on her
forehead - a classic test used to assess mirror self-recognition in
children and apes.
The study is reported in Proceedings of the National Academy of
Sciences.
"We see highly complex behaviours such as self awareness and self-other
distinction in intelligent animals with well-established social
systems," said Joshua Plotnik, from the Yerkes National Primate Research
Center, Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia.
"The social complexity of the elephant, its well-known altruistic
behaviour and, of course, its huge brain, made the elephant a logical
candidate species for testing in front of a mirror."
'X' marks the spot
Many animals will respond to a mirror but very few show any evidence
that they recognise themselves in the reflection.
Canines, for example, will react to the "other dog" and will even look
behind the mirror to try to find it.
The Asian elephants in this study also displayed this type of behaviour
when standing in front of a 2.5m-by-2.5m mirror - they inspected the
rear and brought food close to the mirror for consumption.
But one of the elephants, called "Happy", went to the next level: she
began repeatedly touching a painted "X" on her head with her trunk.
The mark could only be seen in the mirror, and the elephant ignored
another mark made with colourless paint that was also on her forehead to
ensure she was not merely reacting to a smell or feeling.
While only one elephant passed the mark-touching test, the researchers
note that fewer than half of chimpanzees tested typically pass this
test.
A clever club
"Elephants have been tested in front of mirrors before but previous
studies used relatively small mirrors kept out of the elephants' reach,"
said Plotnik.
"This study is the first to test the animals in front of a huge mirror
they could touch, rub against and try to look behind."
Co-researcher Frans de Waal said: "As a result of this study, the
elephant now joins a cognitive elite among animals commensurate with its
well-known complex social life and high level of intelligence.
"Although elephants are far more distantly related to us than the great
apes, they seem to have evolved similar social and cognitive capacities,
making complex social systems and intelligence part of this picture.
"These parallels between humans and elephants suggest a convergent
cognitive evolution possibly related to complex sociality and
cooperation."
The study, conducted with the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS), used
elephants housed at the Bronx Zoo in New York.
/end
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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