self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Bullet"
Date: 23 Feb 2006 02:18:55 PM
Object: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
self-evident
1.. obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or explanation
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
.. . . US Declaration of Independence 1776
Retrieved from "http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident"
(Each of us is created totally by his mom and dad. No supernatural invisible
sky
pixie in evidence anywhere in the process.)
We hold some truths to be self evident (because the
contrary would be an absurd state of affairs), including but not limited to
the principle that all persons come into the world equal and endowed
(simply by right of birth)
with certain unalienable rights, including but not limited to life, liberty,
and due proces of law. That makes murder
("the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice
aforethought"
http://m-w.com/dictionary/murder) absurd, not acceptable behavior. Google
reductio ad absurdum (the disproof of a proposition by showing that it
entails an absurdity).
.

User: ""

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 23 Feb 2006 02:50:09 PM
Bullet wrote:

self-evident

1.. obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or explanation
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
. . . US Declaration of Independence 1776
Retrieved from "http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident"

We hold some truths to be self evident (because the
contrary would be an absurd state of affairs

False. That is not the reason, nor is it any part of the definition of
"self-evident", Septic.

including but not limited to
the principle that all persons come into the world equal and endowed
(simply by right of birth)

False. The phrase in the DoI is "by their Creator", Septic.

with certain unalienable rights, including but not limited to life, liberty,
and due proces of law. That makes murder
("the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice
aforethought"
http://m-w.com/dictionary/murder) absurd,

False, Septic. "Self-evident" and "absurd" are not antonyms atall
atall. Where do you get this stuff? Evidently you're just making it
all up.
Jeff
.
User: "Bullet"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 23 Feb 2006 09:38:47 PM
There is no creator in evidence, other than one's mom and dad, to endow
anyone with anything. Equality under the law, and the right to life,
liberty, and due process of law are a birthright, self-evident because the
opposite would be an absurd state of affairs.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Septic's dishonest quoting 24 Feb 2006 06:50:07 PM
Bullet wrote:

There is no creator in evidence,

Why are you changing the subject, Septic? Once again you were caught
bastardizing your own source in a dishonest but failed attempt to
demonstrate your point. Is the above your best defense? Heh.
(Summary: your source says that what is self-evident is that people are
endowed by a Creator.)
Jeff
.

User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 23 Feb 2006 10:23:49 PM
In article <MrqdnZ2Sb7dT4mPenZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <bullet@nospam.net> wrote:

There is no creator in evidence, other than one's mom and dad, to endow
anyone with anything. Equality under the law, and the right to life,
liberty, and due process of law are a birthright, self-evident because the
opposite would be an absurd state of affairs.

That may be Septic's misinterpretataion of the Declaration of
Independence, but the original version credits endowment by the Creator,
so that one either accepts none of that Declaration or all of it.
Allowing Septic to claim the conclusions while disclaiming the reasoning
would REALLY be an absurd state of affairs.
.
User: "Bullet"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 23 Feb 2006 11:49:35 PM
Equality under the law, and the right to life,
liberty, and due process of law are a birthright, self-evident because the
opposite would be an absurd state of affairs.
There is no creator in evidence, other than one's mom and dad, to endow
anyone with anything.
.
User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: self-evident, because Septic is tangled in an absurd state of affairs 24 Feb 2006 12:30:37 AM
In article <UJydnayZBf8cA2Pe4p2dnA@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <bullet@nospam.net> wrote:

Equality under the law, and the right to life,
liberty, and due process of law are a birthright

According to the source from which Bullet, AKA Septic, stole that
notion, THAT birthright is granted by their CREATOR.
<quote>
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain
unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the
pursuit of Happiness.
<\quote>
So that Septic must be claiming existence of that Creator as grantor of
that birthright.
.


User: "Bullet"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 24 Feb 2006 06:23:07 PM
There is no creator in evidence, other than one's mom and dad, to endow
anyone with anything. Equality under the law, and the right to life,
liberty, and due process of law are a birthright, self-evident because the
opposite would be an absurd state of affairs.
.
User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 24 Feb 2006 10:22:22 PM
In article <YO-dnQlBe--NPmLenZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:

There is no creator in evidence


There is a Creator accredited with being the source of those self
evident rights according to the Declaration of Independence, which is
the soruce from which Septic cribbed his statments.

other than one's mom and dad, to endow
anyone with anything. Equality under the law, and the right to life,
liberty, and


Happiness, at least according to the source.
And Septic's "due process of law" is nowhere mentioned in that source.

are a birthright, self-evident because the
opposite would be an absurd state of affairs.

That "opposite" is the actual state of affairs in the majority of the
world today, and has been throughout the major portion of history.
So Septic is claiming that absurdity is the rule, rather than the
exception.
.
User: "Bullet"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 26 Feb 2006 11:07:04 AM
Everyone has, by right of birth, an unalienable right to due process of law.
The opposite would be an absurd state of affairs violating each the
individual's unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness. Google reductio ad absurdum (disproof of a proposition by showing
an absurdity to which it leads).
The Declaration of Independence
Action of Second Continental Congress, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
WHEN in the Course of human Events,
it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which
have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the
Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of
Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind
requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the
Separation.
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure
these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just
Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of
Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People
to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its
Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to
them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence,
indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed
for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn,
that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than
to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the
same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is
their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide
new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance
of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to
alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of
Great- Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having
in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.
To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.
HE has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the
public Good.
HE has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing
Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till his Assent should be
obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
HE has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts
of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation
in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyrants
only.
HE has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable,
and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole
Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures.
HE has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly
Firmness his Invasions on the Rights of the People.
HE has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to
be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of the Annihilation,
have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining
in the mean time exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and
the Convulsions within.
HE has endeavoured to prevent the Population of these States; for that
Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to
pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions
of new Appropriations of Lands.
HE has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to
Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
HE has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the Tenure of their
Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries.
HE has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of
Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance.
HE has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the
consent of our Legislatures.
HE has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the
Civil Power.
HE has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our
Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving his Assent to their
Acts of pretended Legislation:
FOR quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us;
FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which
they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
FOR cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World:
FOR imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
FOR depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury:
FOR transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended Offences:
FOR abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province,
establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries,
so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the
same absolute Rules into these Colonies:
FOR taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and
altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
FOR suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with
Power to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever.
HE has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and
waging War against us.
HE has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and
destroyed the Lives of our People.
HE is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to
compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny, already begun with
circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most
barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized Nation.
HE has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to
bear Arms against their Country, to become the Executioners of their Friends
and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
HE has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to
bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages,
whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages,
Sexes and Conditions.
IN every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the
most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by
repeated Injury. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every act which
may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People.
NOR have we been wanting in Attentions to our British Brethren. We have
warned them from Time to Time of Attempts by their Legislature to extend an
unwarrantable Jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the
Circumstances of our Emigration and Settlement here. We have appealed to
their native Justice and Magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the Ties
of our common Kindred to disavow these Usurpations, which, would inevitably
interrupt our Connections and Correspondence. They too have been deaf to the
Voice of Justice and of Consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the
Necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the
rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace, Friends.
WE, therefore, the Representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in
GENERAL CONGRESS, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for
the Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the
good People of these Colonies, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these
United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES;
that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that
all political Connection between them and the State of Great-Britain, is and
ought to be totally dissolved; and that as FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES, they
have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish
Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT STATES may
of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance
on the Protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our
Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Septic is mistaken 26 Feb 2006 11:20:55 AM
Bullet wrote:

Everyone has, by right of birth, an unalienable right to due process of law.

False.

The opposite would be an absurd state of affairs

False. Lack of rights is not absurd atall atall Septic.

violating each the
individual's unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness.

False. These rights are not strictly dependent on any due process of
law atall atall.
Septic, once again you have failed to think through any of what you
write.
Jeff
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Septic is mistaken 02 Mar 2006 05:36:00 PM
wrote:

Bullet wrote:

Everyone has, by right of birth, an unalienable right to due process of law.


False.

The opposite would be an absurd state of affairs


False. Lack of rights is not absurd atall atall Septic.

violating each the
individual's unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness.


False. These rights are not strictly dependent on any due process of
law atall atall.

Septic, once again you have failed to think through any of what you
write.

No comment, Septic? You lose. Again.
Jeff
.


User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be against Septic's "Creator" 26 Feb 2006 01:29:49 PM
In article <mo2dnSOnv59HQpzZRVn-qg@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:

Everyone has, by right of birth, an unalienable right to due process of law.

According to the document cited, they are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with
any rights they have.
So that Septic is preaching the existence of a Creator in citing that
document.
So it appears that the only absudity here is SEptic, who viciously
attacks all theists now supporiting theism.
Or has he like Saul been converted?


The Declaration of Independence

Action of Second Continental Congress, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

WHEN in the Course of human Events,

it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which
have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the
Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature AND OF
NATURE'S GOD entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind
requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the
Separation.
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal,
THAT THEY ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN UNALIENABLE RIGHTS, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure
these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just
Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of
Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People
to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its
Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to
them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence,
indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed
for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn,
that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than
to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the
same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is
their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide
new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance
of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to
alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of
Great- Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having
in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.
To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.

HE has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the
public Good.

HE has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing
Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till his Assent should be
obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

HE has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts
of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation
in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyrants
only.

HE has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable,
and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole
Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures.

HE has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly
Firmness his Invasions on the Rights of the People.

HE has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to
be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of the Annihilation,
have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining
in the mean time exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and
the Convulsions within.

HE has endeavoured to prevent the Population of these States; for that
Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to
pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions
of new Appropriations of Lands.

HE has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to
Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

HE has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the Tenure of their
Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries.

HE has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of
Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance.

HE has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the
consent of our Legislatures.

HE has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the
Civil Power.

HE has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our
Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving his Assent to their
Acts of pretended Legislation:

FOR quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us;

FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which
they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

FOR cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World:

FOR imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

FOR depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury:

FOR transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended Offences:

FOR abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province,
establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries,
so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the
same absolute Rules into these Colonies:

FOR taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and
altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

FOR suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with
Power to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever.

HE has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and
waging War against us.

HE has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and
destroyed the Lives of our People.

HE is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to
compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny, already begun with
circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most
barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized Nation.

HE has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to
bear Arms against their Country, to become the Executioners of their Friends
and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

HE has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to
bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages,
whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages,
Sexes and Conditions.

IN every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the
most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by
repeated Injury. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every act which
may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People.

NOR have we been wanting in Attentions to our British Brethren. We have
warned them from Time to Time of Attempts by their Legislature to extend an
unwarrantable Jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the
Circumstances of our Emigration and Settlement here. We have appealed to
their native Justice and Magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the Ties
of our common Kindred to disavow these Usurpations, which, would inevitably
interrupt our Connections and Correspondence. They too have been deaf to the
Voice of Justice and of Consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the
Necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the
rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace, Friends.

WE, therefore, the Representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in
GENERAL CONGRESS, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for
the Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the
good People of these Colonies, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these
United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES;
that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that
all political Connection between them and the State of Great-Britain, is and
ought to be totally dissolved; and that as FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES, they
have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish
Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT STATES may
of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, WITH A FIRM RELIANCE
ON THE PROTECTION OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE, we mutually pledge to each other our
Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

.

User: "Uncle Buck"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 03 Mar 2006 05:52:24 PM
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:07:04 -0800, "Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:

Everyone has, by right of birth, an unalienable right to due process of law.

Kinda' depends on where you're born, dunnit'? The people who actually have any
practical semblance of a right such as that are a minority on the planet.
Unless of course you wish to define "due process of law" as "doing whatever the
person shoving the gun in your face tells you to do", of course.

The opposite would be an absurd state of affairs violating each the
individual's unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness.

Where in nature are these inalienable rights laid out? Are they spelled out in
our genetic code? Do you decipher them from some unmistakable glyphs arranged
in the stars? Or are they simply things we desire, but sometimes cannot have no
matter how strongly we may want them?
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is when its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
************************************************
Put another way, a society can't claim the right
to label itself "civilized" until and unless its
citizens master "The Art of Peaceful Conflict".
************************************************
.






User: "Bullet"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 24 Feb 2006 12:49:37 PM
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident
.
User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 24 Feb 2006 04:06:38 PM
In article <UpqdnS36c-ZeyWLeRVn-rg@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:

self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident

So far, so good, but the Septic screws up by adding

because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs

Implying that one can deduce ethics and morality in vacuo.
The rest of us acknowledge that such principles do not derive from
nothingness, and that one must already have them in place and agreed
upon in order to use reductio ad absurdum as a legitimate form of
argument.
.
User: "Bullet"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 24 Feb 2006 06:19:05 PM
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident
.
User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: self-evident, because Septic ever being correct would be an absurd state of affairs 24 Feb 2006 10:14:14 PM
In article <KbidnabV76aDP2LenZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:

self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs

See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident

The existence of Septic is the only absurdity here!
.





User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 23 Feb 2006 02:56:19 PM
In article <4YidnXCCve3IhWPenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:

self-evident

1.. obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or explanation
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
. . . US Declaration of Independence 1776
Retrieved from "http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident"

If I recall correctly, the justification for those truths was said to
be that we are endowed BY OUR CREATOR with certain inaliable rights.
So that Setic must be claiming that it is absurd because it is a
rejection God's endowments. There is certainly no other absurdity
involved.
Though why someone so obviously a believer should have so long predended
to be atheist is not obvious. Unless he has been like a 5th columnist,
attacking atheism from within.
.
User: "Bullet"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 24 Feb 2006 12:49:02 PM
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident
.
User: "Virgil"

Title: Re: self-evident, because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs 24 Feb 2006 04:06:04 PM
In article <UpqdnS36c-ZeyWLeRVn-rg@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:

self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident

So far, so good, but the Septic screws up by adding

because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs

Implying that one can deduce ethics and morality in vacuo.
The rest of us acknowledge that such principles do not derive from
nothingness, and that one must already have them in place and agreed
upon in order to use reductio ad absurdum as a legitimate form of
argument.
.




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