self-knowledge



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "jb"
Date: 09 Dec 2006 07:30:03 AM
Object: self-knowledge
Hello all,
Here is an approach to inquiry into our daily living,
which - in case of interest - I would share:
Text/teaching:
www.jkrishnamurti.org
As Dialogs:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/J-Krishnamurti_andLife/
I would be interested to hear your view on it.
Regards,
jb
"When the activities of the self are explored and understood,
then there is imperishable ecstasy".
- J. Krishnamurti
.

User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 09 Dec 2006 09:46:36 AM
"jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165671003.591633.16310@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...



Hello all,

Here is an approach to inquiry into our daily living,
which - in case of interest - I would share:

<snip>


I would be interested to hear your view on it.

It's *****.
.
User: "jb"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 12 Dec 2006 11:21:39 AM
Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:

"jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165671003.591633.16310@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...



Hello all,

Here is an approach to inquiry into our daily living,
which - in case of interest - I would share:


<snip>


I would be interested to hear your view on it.


It's *****.

In what sense, Ron?
Would you kindly
please expound/expand on?
Thanks.
- jb
.


User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 09 Dec 2006 10:29:11 AM
On 9 Dec 2006 05:30:03 -0800, "jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1165671003.591633.16310@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>



Hello all,

Here is an approach to inquiry into our daily living,
which - in case of interest - I would share:

Text/teaching:
www.jkrishnamurti.org

As Dialogs:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/J-Krishnamurti_andLife/

I would be interested to hear your view on it.
Regards,
jb

"When the activities of the self are explored and understood,
then there is imperishable ecstasy".
- J. Krishnamurti

It is a scam by another (dead) snake-oil merchant.
His writings are word salads utterly devoid of intellectual calories.
--
.
User: "jb"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 09:21:35 AM
Michael Gray skrev:

On 9 Dec 2006 05:30:03 -0800, "jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1165671003.591633.16310@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>



Hello all,

Here is an approach to inquiry into our daily living,
which - in case of interest - I would share:

Text/teaching:
www.jkrishnamurti.org

As Dialogs:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/J-Krishnamurti_andLife/

I would be interested to hear your view on it.
Regards,
jb

"When the activities of the self are explored and understood,
then there is imperishable ecstasy".
- J. Krishnamurti


It is a scam by another (dead) snake-oil merchant.
His writings are word salads utterly devoid of intellectual calories.

--

You are right.
Not much food for the analytical intellect.
The 'calories' are delivered another place.
Being caught in the intellect, brings perceptual blindness.
- j.
.


User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 09 Dec 2006 04:55:01 PM
On 9 Dec 2006 05:30:03 -0800, "jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote:

I would be interested to hear your view on it.

It's religion so, at best, it's totally worthless.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"If we really know Truth, we do not fear hearing falsehoods or half-truths; if we are not sure of the truth - we shudder and try to shout down every utterance." - A. J. Mims
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
User: "jb"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 09:26:54 AM
Al Klein skrev:

On 9 Dec 2006 05:30:03 -0800, "jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote:

I would be interested to hear your view on it.


It's religion so, at best, it's totally worthless.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"If we really know Truth, we do not fear hearing falsehoods or half-truths; if we are not sure of the truth - we shudder and try to shout down every utterance." - A. J. Mims
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)

I would say, true and false.
True, that it is not a traditional dogmatic religion.
He debunked that all his life.
But it IS a Very useful scientific investigation of the psyche,
resulting in the peception a a something which is Timeless and beyond
matter.
But for those who Believe only in matter, it is 'useless'.
-
j.
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 12:08:14 PM
On 10 Dec 2006 07:26:54 -0800, "jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote:

Al Klein skrev:

It's religion so, at best, it's totally worthless.

I would say, true and false.
True, that it is not a traditional dogmatic religion.

Religion is irrational - the "traditional dogmatic" kind or any other
kind. If it's rational it's not religion.

But for those who Believe only in matter, it is 'useless'.

For those who believe only in reality, religion is useless. For those
who are morally mature, religion is unnecessary.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"What has 'theology' ever said that is of the smallest use to anybody? When
has 'theology' ever said anything that is demonstrably true and is not
obvious? What makes you think that 'theology' is a subject at all?"
- Richard Dawkins
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
User: ""

Title: Re: self-knowledge 11 Dec 2006 11:29:25 AM
Al Klein schreef:

On 10 Dec 2006 07:26:54 -0800, "jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote:

Al Klein skrev:


It's religion so, at best, it's totally worthless.


I would say, true and false.
True, that it is not a traditional dogmatic religion.


Religion is irrational - the "traditional dogmatic" kind or any other
kind. If it's rational it's not religion.

But for those who Believe only in matter, it is 'useless'.


For those who believe only in reality, religion is useless. For those
who are morally mature, religion is unnecessary.

As far as I know Krishnamurti (despite his name)
has nothing to do with any religion, certainly not organized religion.
I think he plans to put something about religion on his website,
but when I searched for it, (religion) all I got was "coming soon"
He is more like a philosopher, and the way he thinks the world should
be changed,
is rather Buddistic, but at least complies with my own (athiest) views
on morality.
I don't know why you all dispense with him so easily.
He might not be worth while to you, when you look any further
but saying "it's religion" is a bit beside the truth.
"praying is Greed"' I would think that an atheist would lik that.
Appearantly not
Seems the man is is netiher a theist nor an atheist, if I read this:
K:
"If I want to find out what is God, not I believe in God, that has no
meaning, if there is God, if there is no God, I really want to find
out. I am terribly serious. And if I am really serious, I am really
concerned to the understanding, learning about God, if there is God, I
must push aside completely all the beliefs, all the structure, all the
churches, all the priests, all the books, all the things that thought
has put together about religion. You follow?"
He seems to be a non-agnostic wating his time trying to become either a
theist or an atheist.
I wonder how if he will be wise enough to give it up in time:)
Peter van Velzen
December 2006
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 11 Dec 2006 02:01:13 PM
On 11 Dec 2006 09:29:25 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:

Seems the man is is netiher a theist nor an atheist, if I read this:

K:
"If I want to find out what is God, not I believe in God, that has no
meaning, if there is God, if there is no God, I really want to find
out. I am terribly serious. And if I am really serious, I am really
concerned to the understanding, learning about God, if there is God, I
must push aside completely all the beliefs, all the structure, all the
churches, all the priests, all the books, all the things that thought
has put together about religion. You follow?"

To start out with an assumption of a god is theistic.

He seems to be a non-agnostic wating his time trying to become either a
theist or an atheist.

A non-agnostic is a gnostic. One is either theistic or not
(atheistic) - one can't be not either.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
Is he willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Whence then comes evil?
-Epicurus, 3rd c. BCE
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
User: ""

Title: Re: self-knowledge 11 Dec 2006 02:30:40 PM
Al Klein schreef:

On 11 Dec 2006 09:29:25 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:

Seems the man is is netiher a theist nor an atheist, if I read this:

K:
"If I want to find out what is God, not I believe in God, that has no
meaning, if there is God, if there is no God, I really want to find
out. I am terribly serious. And if I am really serious, I am really
concerned to the understanding, learning about God, if there is God, I
must push aside completely all the beliefs, all the structure, all the
churches, all the priests, all the books, all the things that thought
has put together about religion. You follow?"


To start out with an assumption of a god is theistic.

He seems to be a non-agnostic wating his time trying to become either a
theist or an atheist.


A non-agnostic is a gnostic. One is either theistic or not
(atheistic) - one can't be not either.

That is a wrong assumption
at least two mathematicians proved indepently
that if "A" is not true, it doesn't follow that "not A" is true.
But I have heard agnostics described as those who think.
it cannot be known wether God Exists.
This guy is trying to find out anyway.
It's a shame he doesn't have a conatc button on his website.
I would really want to warn him,
that lack of evidence should be ample reason to omit the God idea/
If he is going to wait for positive proof,
he'll be wasting a lifetime. . . .
As Krisna doesn't exist I wonder what murti means.
Goofgle(murti) second hit (first hit was Dutch, I'll spare you that)
---------------------------
A murti (Devanagari: =E0=A4=AE=E0=A5=82=E0=A4=B0=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=A4=E0=A4=BF=
) (also spelled murthi or
murthy) typically refers to an image in which the Divine Spirit is
'murta', or expressed. A murti becomes worshippable after the Divine is
invoked in it for the purpose of offering worship. Thus the murti is
treated as the Deity of the Divine and regarded by Hindus and also by
some Mahayana Buddhists during worship as points of devotional and
meditational focus.
---------------------------
Dam'n it means Icon or Idol or something to that extent.
We'll have to warn our friends the Christians.
The man is a living Idol
If they visit his site, they'll sin againts the first commandment.
Wow, good thing I'm not a Christian:)
Peter van Velzen
December 2006
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 11 Dec 2006 03:45:01 PM
On 11 Dec 2006 12:30:40 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:


Al Klein schreef:

On 11 Dec 2006 09:29:25 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:

Seems the man is is netiher a theist nor an atheist, if I read this:

K:
"If I want to find out what is God, not I believe in God, that has no
meaning, if there is God, if there is no God, I really want to find
out. I am terribly serious. And if I am really serious, I am really
concerned to the understanding, learning about God, if there is God, I
must push aside completely all the beliefs, all the structure, all the
churches, all the priests, all the books, all the things that thought
has put together about religion. You follow?"


To start out with an assumption of a god is theistic.

He seems to be a non-agnostic wating his time trying to become either a
theist or an atheist.


A non-agnostic is a gnostic. One is either theistic or not
(atheistic) - one can't be not either.


That is a wrong assumption
at least two mathematicians proved indepently
that if "A" is not true, it doesn't follow that "not A" is true.

I can prove, mathematically, that 2 = 1, but if something can have
only 2 states and it doesn't have one of them it has the other one.

But I have heard agnostics described as those who think.
it cannot be known wether God Exists.

Anyone can redefine any word. I prefer to use the meaning given it by
the man who invented it. If one is not unwilling to make statements
for which one has no evidence, one is willing to make statements for
which one has no evidence.

I would really want to warn him,
that lack of evidence should be ample reason to omit the God idea

Lack of observation of anything to investigate should be ample reason
to not go looking for something. We've learned enough times that no
god resided in knowledge gaps.

As Krisna doesn't exist I wonder what murti means.
Goofgle(murti) second hit (first hit was Dutch, I'll spare you that)
---------------------------
A murti (Devanagari: ??????) (also spelled murthi or
murthy) typically refers to an image in which the Divine Spirit is
'murta', or expressed. A murti becomes worshippable after the Divine is
invoked in it for the purpose of offering worship. Thus the murti is
treated as the Deity of the Divine and regarded by Hindus and also by
some Mahayana Buddhists during worship as points of devotional and
meditational focus.
---------------------------
Dam'n it means Icon or Idol or something to that extent.
We'll have to warn our friends the Christians.
The man is a living Idol
If they visit his site, they'll sin againts the first commandment.
Wow, good thing I'm not a Christian:)

And, again, he's assuming, a priori, that there's something there to
investigate, rather than investigating that for which he has something
*to* investigate. The religious method, as opposed to the scientific
method.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for president."
- George W. Bush, quoted in George Magazine, September, 2000
"God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith,
deep and unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by
God to save Germany."
- Hermann Goering, speaking of Hitler
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
User: ""

Title: Re: self-knowledge 12 Dec 2006 12:12:53 PM
Al Klein schreef:

On 11 Dec 2006 12:30:40 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:


Al Klein schreef:

On 11 Dec 2006 09:29:25 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:

Seems the man is is netiher a theist nor an atheist, if I read this:

K:
"If I want to find out what is God, not I believe in God, that has no
meaning, if there is God, if there is no God, I really want to find
out. I am terribly serious. And if I am really serious, I am really
concerned to the understanding, learning about God, if there is God, I
must push aside completely all the beliefs, all the structure, all the
churches, all the priests, all the books, all the things that thought
has put together about religion. You follow?"


To start out with an assumption of a god is theistic.

He seems to be a non-agnostic wating his time trying to become either a
theist or an atheist.


A non-agnostic is a gnostic. One is either theistic or not
(atheistic) - one can't be not either.


That is a wrong assumption
at least two mathematicians proved indepently
that if "A" is not true, it doesn't follow that "not A" is true.


I can prove, mathematically, that 2 = 1, but if something can have
only 2 states and it doesn't have one of them it has the other one.

even a computer bit can have more than 2 states,
it can be 0 or 1 or broke:)


But I have heard agnostics described as those who think.
it cannot be known wether God Exists.


Anyone can redefine any word. I prefer to use the meaning given it by
the man who invented it. If one is not unwilling to make statements
for which one has no evidence, one is willing to make statements for
which one has no evidence.

I would really want to warn him,
that lack of evidence should be ample reason to omit the God idea


Lack of observation of anything to investigate should be ample reason
to not go looking for something. We've learned enough times that no
god resided in knowledge gaps.

As Krisna doesn't exist I wonder what murti means.
Goofgle(murti) second hit (first hit was Dutch, I'll spare you that)
---------------------------
A murti (Devanagari: ??????) (also spelled murthi or
murthy) typically refers to an image in which the Divine Spirit is
'murta', or expressed. A murti becomes worshippable after the Divine is
invoked in it for the purpose of offering worship. Thus the murti is
treated as the Deity of the Divine and regarded by Hindus and also by
some Mahayana Buddhists during worship as points of devotional and
meditational focus.
---------------------------
Dam'n it means Icon or Idol or something to that extent.
We'll have to warn our friends the Christians.
The man is a living Idol
If they visit his site, they'll sin againts the first commandment.
Wow, good thing I'm not a Christian:)

And, again, he's assuming, a priori, that there's something there to
investigate, rather than investigating that for which he has something
*to* investigate. The religious method, as opposed to the scientific
method.

Nothing unscientific in investigating a rumor.
If - for instance - people claim that there is a satschquat,
you can go to the alledged place and look for evidence.
It has been done.
Of course the satschquat sightings are never confirmed by subsequent
research.
The problem is God's properties ar so badly defined,
you may stumble on him, and never know you've seen him:)
A search for a God is not so much unscientific
as outright stupid!
Peter van Velzen
December 2006
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.






User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 02:08:50 PM
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:26:54 -0800, jb wrote:

But it IS a Very useful scientific investigation of the psyche,

No it isn't. It's babble. Pure word salad.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due
to the absence, from Jerusalem, of a lunatic asylum.
-Havelock Ellis
.

User: ""

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 09:59:21 AM
jb schreef:

Al Klein skrev:

On 9 Dec 2006 05:30:03 -0800, "jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote:

I would be interested to hear your view on it.


It's religion so, at best, it's totally worthless.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"If we really know Truth, we do not fear hearing falsehoods or half-truths; if we are not sure of the truth - we shudder and try to shout down every utterance." - A. J. Mims
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)


I would say, true and false.
True, that it is not a traditional dogmatic religion.
He debunked that all his life.
But it IS a Very useful scientific investigation of the psyche,
resulting in the peception a a something which is Timeless and beyond
matter.

"But for those who Believe only in matter, it is 'useless'. "
Not true!
Peter van Velzen
Materialist
December 2006
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.



User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 09 Dec 2006 07:54:29 PM
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet jb (jb789@hotmail.com) made
the light shine upon us with this:

Hello all,

Hello. Why did you post this spiritual nonsense to an atheist group? Are
you trying to score brownie points with your non-existent skydaddy?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Proud member of Earthquack's "Ghost fulla holes" convict page
.
User: "jb"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 09:30:51 AM
Uncle Vic skrev:

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet jb (jb789@hotmail.com) made
the light shine upon us with this:

Hello all,


Hello. Why did you post this spiritual nonsense to an atheist group? Are
you trying to score brownie points with your non-existent skydaddy?

--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Proud member of Earthquack's "Ghost fulla holes" convict page

Why?
It is very simple.
The atheists are humans too.
They go thru conflict, suffering and misery, like the believers,
JK points to a possibility of living another way, free of self
deception.
Sir, I am not 'selling' anything.
I said, here is a cookie my fellow human. And you say :nonsense'.
Ok, dialog finished.
- j.
.
User: "jb"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 09:41:24 AM
jb skrev:

Uncle Vic skrev:

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet jb (jb789@hotmail.com) made
the light shine upon us with this:

Hello all,


Hello. Why did you post this spiritual nonsense to an atheist group?

j: BECAUSE I AM AN ATHEIST MYSELF... BUT
a human too.
And besides this 'nonsense' has nothig whatsoever to do with 'Belief'
in a spiritual deity.
-j
Are

you trying to score brownie points with your non-existent skydaddy?

--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Proud member of Earthquack's "Ghost fulla holes" convict page


Why?
It is very simple.
The atheists are humans too.
They go thru conflict, suffering and misery, like the believers,
JK points to a possibility of living another way, free of self
deception.
Sir, I am not 'selling' anything.
I said, here is a cookie my fellow human. And you say :nonsense'.
Ok, dialog finished.
- j.

.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 09:03:14 PM
On 10 Dec 2006 07:41:24 -0800, "jb" <jb789@hotmail.com> wrote:

And besides this 'nonsense' has nothig whatsoever to do with 'Belief'
in a spiritual deity.

Nor does it have anything to do with atheism, nor with anything anyone
here is interested in. But it *is* proselytizing, and that's not
allowed here.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit
priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies
about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and
have always been an atheist."
- Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945,
responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein
to convert from atheism. Article by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic
magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1997
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.




User: ""

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 09:55:50 AM
jb schreef:

Hello all,

Here is an approach to inquiry into our daily living,
which - in case of interest - I would share:

Text/teaching:
www.jkrishnamurti.org

As Dialogs:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/J-Krishnamurti_andLife/

I would be interested to hear your view on it.
Regards,
jb

"When the activities of the self are explored and understood,
then there is imperishable ecstasy".
- J. Krishnamurti

Unlike others, who I suspect do not care to invetigate, I like
Krishnamurti.
He was proclaimed a spiritual leader (about the same way the Daila Lama
was)
and became one wheter his wanted to or not.
Howver - if I recall correctily - He warend people not to follow
leaders,
but to think for themselves.
The way his words are arranged, he carefullly does not make to many
judgements.
like "what they call God " and by often presenting his statement as a
question.
"Prayer is greed" seems to be his message today.
I wonder how why an Atheist would mind. . . .
Peter van Velzen
December 2006
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.

User: "Josh Miles"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 09 Dec 2006 04:44:46 PM
jb wrote:


Hello all,

Here is an approach to inquiry into our daily living,
which - in case of interest - I would share:

Text/teaching:
www.jkrishnamurti.org

As Dialogs:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/J-Krishnamurti_andLife/

I would be interested to hear your view on it.
Regards,
jb

"When the activities of the self are explored and understood,
then there is imperishable ecstasy".
- J. Krishnamurti

I don't like pseudointellectual drivel and snake oil.
.
User: "jb"

Title: Re: self-knowledge 10 Dec 2006 09:23:50 AM
Josh Miles skrev:

jb wrote:


Hello all,

Here is an approach to inquiry into our daily living,
which - in case of interest - I would share:

Text/teaching:
www.jkrishnamurti.org

As Dialogs:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/J-Krishnamurti_andLife/

I would be interested to hear your view on it.
Regards,
jb

"When the activities of the self are explored and understood,
then there is imperishable ecstasy".
- J. Krishnamurti


I don't like pseudointellectual drivel and snake oil.

J. Krishnamurit's philosophy is not a tickle for the intellect's
muscles.
Intellect is limitted. Being trapped there, onbe stays there and one is
steered by it.
Not so?
- j.
.



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The Bible vs Supposed Limitations On Self And Others.
 

NEWER

pg.3585     pg.2749     pg.2106     pg.1612     pg.1232     pg.940     pg.716     pg.544     pg.412     pg.311     pg.234     pg.175     pg.130     pg.96     pg.70     pg.50     pg.35     pg.24     pg.16     pg.10     pg.6     pg.3     pg.1

OLDER