Religions > Atheism > Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible.
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Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"TRUECRISTIAN" |
| Date: |
16 Jan 2006 08:04:39 AM |
| Object: |
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist. Something does
not have to be tangible for it to exist. If I were to create something
to not believe in, and tell myself enough times, and enough people, I
can "not believe" something into existence. So I don't believe in
"Snarfgobolus" if I tell enough people that I don't believe in it I
will eventually have to explain what it is I don't believe, and then it
WILL exist, if only in theory.
Saying that God doesn't exist is just plain ignorant, as I said before,
something does not have to be tangible to exist. Gravity DOES exist, we
all have to admit that, but it is not tangible. "But Biph, I'm an
atheist, and gravity is tangible, we can see its effect on the physical
world!" True dat. But you can also see God's effect on the physical
world, because it exists. "Well, I can feel gravity." Well, I can
feel God. Sharks can feel tiny electrical fields, since you can't do
they not exist? Just because you can't feel something does not mean
that it isn't there, stop being a dumbass.
Just because you don't have faith, does not mean that that which you do
not have faith in does not exist. There are millions of people who know
what a Jedi is, so they exist, even if only in our minds. The same can
be said of God. Just because you may have never seen a Star Wars movie,
that does not mean that Jedi have never been, stop being such a fool!
There are so many things in the world that I have never experienced or
felt or seen or heard, but I don't simply dismiss them, as though my
pathetic opinion matters, into oblivion (well, that's what I would be
thinking, if I were as pea-brained as all atheists).
The fact remains that God does exist, whether or not you believe in Him
(and the only way to not believe in Him, is to never have had the
thought of a Divine Being cross your mind or brought to your attention,
denial is an acceptance of His Existence). When an atheist tells me
that they are an atheist, I tell them that their lack of faith is
disturbing, and leave it at that, because I don't have the time to
explain to them the difference.
Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life? It seems pointless if
after we die, there's no hope for us.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
21 Jan 2006 09:30:14 AM |
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On 16 Jan 2006 08:37:06 -0800, "Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
<snip>
Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life? It seems pointless if
after we die, there's no hope for us.
And that is why this one should never be let off his god leash.
Exactly. Sociopath's/psychopath's like the TC vermin demonstrate
much-none of it good. What the cretins will never understand is:
If the Xtian God exists all is scripted and everyone is a mere robot
following a individual programme. Talk about pointless!
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 05:27:48 PM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
And yet they do!
I guess its not impossible after all.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
The "dont comprehend it" because its *****.
<snip loonatic* ravings>
(* deliberate spelling mistake - I anjoy spelling "loonatic" this way
so there!)
Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life?
The same point there is if a God does exist.
That will overload your tiny little brain.
*kaboom!*
Mark.
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| User: "I KILLED YOUR GOD...IT WAS EASY." |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 07:21:44 PM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1137454068.409772.201440@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
And yet they do!
I guess its not impossible after all.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
The "dont comprehend it" because its *****.
<snip loonatic* ravings>
(* deliberate spelling mistake - I anjoy spelling "loonatic" this way
so there!)
Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life?
The same point there is if a God does exist.
That will overload your tiny little brain.
*kaboom!*
Mark.
HAHAHAHAHA! GOOD ONE MARK!
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| User: "erikc" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
18 Jan 2006 10:32:39 PM |
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On 16 Jan 2006 15:27:48 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote:
TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
And yet they do!
I guess its not impossible after all.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
The "dont comprehend it" because its *****.
<snip loonatic* ravings>
(* deliberate spelling mistake - I anjoy spelling "loonatic" this way
so there!)
Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life?
The same point there is if a God does exist.
That will overload your tiny little brain.
*kaboom!*
Mark.
Guy sounds like someone who took LSD, went on a "god trip", fried his
circuits, and never came down.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
21 Jan 2006 09:51:49 AM |
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On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:32:39 -0600, erikc <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote
in alt.atheism
On 16 Jan 2006 15:27:48 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote:
TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
And yet they do!
I guess its not impossible after all.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
The "dont comprehend it" because its *****.
<snip loonatic* ravings>
(* deliberate spelling mistake - I anjoy spelling "loonatic" this way
so there!)
Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life?
The same point there is if a God does exist.
That will overload your tiny little brain.
*kaboom!*
Mark.
Guy sounds like someone who took LSD, went on a "god trip", fried his
circuits, and never came down.
Oh, yes, Shrub.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot existin the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 05:17:05 PM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
And if a man says he is bald, that proves he has hair.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
18 Jan 2006 11:01:01 PM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
I do not believe in Unicorns. If you think that means
I believe in unicorns then I urge you to go to the nearest
hospital for a psychiatric evaluation.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
21 Jan 2006 09:53:08 AM |
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On 18 Jan 2006 21:01:01 -0800, "lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu"
<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote in alt.atheism
TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
I do not believe in Unicorns. If you think that means
I believe in unicorns then I urge you to go to the nearest
hospital for a psychiatric evaluation.
They released him after the funding cuts.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Rupert" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
18 Jan 2006 08:36:04 PM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
Nonsense.
Something does
not have to be tangible for it to exist. If I were to create something
to not believe in, and tell myself enough times, and enough people, I
can "not believe" something into existence. So I don't believe in
"Snarfgobolus" if I tell enough people that I don't believe in it I
will eventually have to explain what it is I don't believe, and then it
WILL exist, if only in theory.
It's true that you'll have to explain what it is you don't believe in.
It's not true that it will thereby come to exist.
Saying that God doesn't exist is just plain ignorant, as I said before,
something does not have to be tangible to exist. Gravity DOES exist, we
all have to admit that, but it is not tangible. "But Biph, I'm an
atheist, and gravity is tangible, we can see its effect on the physical
world!" True dat. But you can also see God's effect on the physical
world, because it exists. "Well, I can feel gravity." Well, I can
feel God.
Good for you. I can't. Tell me more about the evidence there is for God
and I might re-assess my position.
Sharks can feel tiny electrical fields, since you can't do
they not exist? Just because you can't feel something does not mean
that it isn't there, stop being a dumbass.
If I have no reason to believe something exists, I am not a dumbass for
refusing to believe it exists.
Just because you don't have faith, does not mean that that which you do
not have faith in does not exist. There are millions of people who know
what a Jedi is, so they exist, even if only in our minds.
The myth of Jedi exists. Jedi do not exist.
The same can
be said of God. Just because you may have never seen a Star Wars movie,
that does not mean that Jedi have never been, stop being such a fool!
There are so many things in the world that I have never experienced or
felt or seen or heard, but I don't simply dismiss them, as though my
pathetic opinion matters, into oblivion (well, that's what I would be
thinking, if I were as pea-brained as all atheists).
Do you believe there is a teapot orbiting Pluto? There might be one,
but in the absence of any evidence it's rational for you not to believe
there is one. So too with God.
The fact remains that God does exist, whether or not you believe in Him
(and the only way to not believe in Him, is to never have had the
thought of a Divine Being cross your mind or brought to your attention,
denial is an acceptance of His Existence).
Nonsense. You can think about something without believing in it.
You maintain that God exists. You may or may not be right. Show me the
slightest evidence, then we'll have something to talk about.
When an atheist tells me
that they are an atheist, I tell them that their lack of faith is
disturbing, and leave it at that, because I don't have the time to
explain to them the difference.
Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life? It seems pointless if
after we die, there's no hope for us.
Being moral is an end in itself. Either you see some point in it or you
don't. If your only motivation to be moral is reward in the afterlife,
well, that's the way things are for you. I find my motivation to be
moral in my feelings of empathy and benevolence towards my
fellow-creatures.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
18 Jan 2006 11:52:59 PM |
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Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life? It seems pointless if
after we die, there's no hope for us.
Being moral is an end in itself. Either you see some point in it or you
don't. If your only motivation to be moral is reward in the afterlife,
well, that's the way things are for you. I find my motivation to be
moral in my feelings of empathy and benevolence towards my
fellow-creatures.
Empathy is the point of morality. The fact that we have experienced
pain leads most to not want to subject others to pain.
Larry
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 11:36:10 PM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
Your god is dead. Get over it.
IS THERE A GOD?
Strong Atheism's answer.
A BASIC DEFINITION OF GOD.
The general overarching definition of god as per
the major religions of the world is:
A. God is personal, God has will and consciousness.
B. God has free will.
C. God is the creator of all.
D. God is omnipotent.
E. God is omnibenevolent.
F. God is omniscient.
G. God is that which nothing more powerful
can be imagined.
These are the basic attributes that can be claimed
for the god of orthodox Judaism, Christianity,
Islam, and Hinduism.
Omnibenevolence and omniscience are actually
logically derivable from the claimed attribute of
omnipotence and so aren't not truly independent
attributes, and may be considered special aspects
of omnipotence.
There are other attributes of god, that he is the
only such god, that he is is immortal and that
god has always existed that are not important
for this discussion and for now, can be ignored.
They are secondary arguments and are for the most
part not foundational or truly necessary, except
those that can be logically derived from the
attributes listed above.
A CLASS OF GODS
It is important to note here that this is a
definition not for a particular god, but an
entire class of gods.
Sub-theories about god are not important here.
Christianity claims one may attain salvation
only through Jesus, Islam claims the Christian
dogma that Jesus was the son of god is
blasphemous.
Ideas like this though, are of little importance
to the overarching and general claims made for a
personal, creator, omni-everything god. I have
coined a term, The Grand God of Grand Theologies
for this sort of god, this sort of theological
system of expansive claims for god.
Grand theologies are those theologies that have
adopted this class of god as their basic
attributes concerning the nature of god. But it
is important to remember here that what is being
discussed here is a class of gods, not particular
gods or specific gods.
THE FOUR GREAT THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS
Again, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism hold
to this basic Grand God and are typical Grand
Theologies holding to this basic class of god as
their basic definitions of what god is at god's
most basic level.
A big problem with this class of gods is, it
collapses rather easily into internal self-
contradiction.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
The problem of evil was first written down by
Epicurus in about the third century BCE.
Today's formulation is:
A. God is defined as omnipotent;
B. and as omnibenevolent.
C. Evil exists.
D. God therefore, is not omnipotent as claimed.
E. Or God is not omnibenevolent as claimed.
F. Or god is neither omnipotent or
omnibenevolent.
G. Or god is not existant.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE
The free will defense of the problem of evil goes
back to St. Augustine who popularized it. It is
still popular, and is championed most notably
today by Alvin Plantinga, but also by other
theologians.
God gave man free will. Man freely chooses to do
evil. Ability to do evil is less evil than
lacking free will.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE DEBUNKED.
God has free will.
God is omnibenevolent, he has a good nature
incapable of doing evil.
A. If god can have free will, and a good nature,
this good nature is not allowed to count
against god's free will.
B. Nor is god's lack of ability to do evil
allowed to count against god's omnipotence.
C. Likewise, man could easily have a god like
free will and a god like good nature.
D. Inabilty then to do evil would no more count
against man's free will than it does for god's
free will.
E. If so, it also counts against god's free will
and god does not have free will as claimed.
F. If god does not have absolute and total free
will, thus free will is not a true necessity
at all.
F. If god is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, and
can give man a god like free will and a
god-like good nature incapable of moral evil,
god must do so or god is not moral, not
omnibenevolent.
G. Evil exists because he allows it to.
So free will does not exist, or it does and we can
have a god like free will and a god like good
nature. Either way, free will cannot explain away
the existence of evil. This free will defense
then, is a failed argument.
OMNISCIENCE VERSUS CREATORHOOD OF GOD
God is defined as creator of all in most
religions.
And god is claimed to be omniscient, all knowing.
A. God created the Universe and all in it.
B. God is omniscient, all knowing, he knows all
in the Universe and he knows the future of the
Universe and its contents.
C. If god creates a Universe, he will know that
in 13 billion years this Universe will have a
man named John Smith in it.
D. If John Smith is good and saved, or evil and
damned, God will know that.
E. As he knows that the Universe in its present
state will have a John Smith, god may then
contemplate the future state of Smith and
decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
F. If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a
specific personal and will choice made solely
by god.
G. If Smith is evil, then evil exists solely
because of a choice made by god. In fact all
moral evil done by creations of god will be
evil and do evil only because of personal and
willful creations of god allowing evil acts
to be done, by direct decision of god.
H. If evil exists in a world with an omniscient
creator god, it is solely and only because
god allows evil.
I. If evil exists solely because of personal
choices of god, god then is not as defined,
omnibenevolent.
J. Man and any other sentient being in such a
Universe cannot have any free will, not even
in principle. A Universe with a god that
creates all and knows all precludes free will
for all beings god creates in the strongest
possible manner.
The Grand God of Grand
Theology is thus self destroying, it is
incoherent and contradictory as a theory.
THE SITUATION SO FAR.
1. A minimalistic class of gods is defined, this
Grand God has been defined here with as few
terms as possible.
2. The problem of evil dooms such a claimed god.
3. The attempted defense, free will is fatally
flawed. God's good nature and free will doom
claims free will makes evil necessary for man
to have free will.
4. Omniscience and creatorhood of god further
doom claims of god's omnibenevolence and
man's free will free will cannot exist for
man. All evil is the direct and knowing
creation of god contradicting claims of
omnibenevolence.
5. Since Free will for man is totally impossible,
free will cannot be a good quality, much less
necessary.
Here, the Grand God of Grand Theology has
collapsed. As has Grand
Theology. As pointed out, this destroys the claims
and viability of an entire class of possible
gods,
all secondary and tertiary claims for such a god
of
this class also fail, as do dogmas or secondary
or tertiary claims.
If a these Grand Gods cannot exist as defined,
specific gods cannot, nor can claims such as this
or that Grand God sent this or that revelation to
man or some prophet or did this or that.
God is thus disproven and is utter irrelevant
to anything real and existant.
***********
--
"A power so great, it can only be used for Good or Evil!" -
Firesign Theatre, "The Giant Rat of Summatra"
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 11:30:42 AM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist. Something does
not have to be tangible for it to exist. If I were to create something
to not believe in, and tell myself enough times, and enough people, I
can "not believe" something into existence. So I don't believe in
"Snarfgobolus" if I tell enough people that I don't believe in it I
will eventually have to explain what it is I don't believe, and then it
WILL exist, if only in theory.
I "believe" you're full of *****. Therefore, it is true according to your
own criteria. So now go away and leave us alone.
--
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 12:37:06 PM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
Can they exist in other parts of the world?
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist. Something does
not have to be tangible for it to exist. If I were to create something
to not believe in, and tell myself enough times, and enough people, I
can "not believe" something into existence. So I don't believe in
"Snarfgobolus" if I tell enough people that I don't believe in it I
will eventually have to explain what it is I don't believe, and then it
WILL exist, if only in theory.
Have you been drinking?
Saying that God doesn't exist is just plain ignorant, as I said before,
something does not have to be tangible to exist. Gravity DOES exist, we
all have to admit that, but it is not tangible.
Don't be so sure. Ever hear of gravitrons?
"But Biph, I'm an
atheist, and gravity is tangible, we can see its effect on the physical
world!" True dat. But you can also see God's effect on the physical
world, because it exists.
Prove it.
"Well, I can feel gravity." Well, I can
feel God.
Maybe what you're feeling is just indigestion.
Sharks can feel tiny electrical fields, since you can't do
they not exist?
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but if sharks have sensors for
these electrical fields, and humans don't, then there's a rational
explanation for why we don't feel them, and no reason to think they
don't exist. Especially since humans can make sensors that detect them
too.
Just because you can't feel something does not mean
that it isn't there, stop being a dumbass.
Doesn't mean it does either.
Just because you don't have faith, does not mean that that which you do
not have faith in does not exist.
Doesn't mean it does, either.
There are millions of people who know
what a Jedi is, so they exist, even if only in our minds.
There are also millions of people who realize that a Jedi is a
fictional character from the mind of George Lucas, and know they don't
exist, not even in our own minds. So who is correct? In this case, I
think asking George Lucas would clear things up, and my guess is he'd
think anyone who thought that Jedis were real would need their head
examined. There is a difference between suspending disbelief for a
couple of hours while you watch a fictional movie and believing that
fictional movie to be true.
The same can
be said of God.
Yes. It can. There are millions of people who think that "god" is a
fictional character too, and that anyone who thinks "God" is real needs
their head examined.
Just because you may have never seen a Star Wars movie,
that does not mean that Jedi have never been, stop being such a fool!
Doesn't mean they have ever been either. And you're a fool if you think
they have, beause that would mean you can;t distinguish fiction from
reality.
There are so many things in the world that I have never experienced or
felt or seen or heard, but I don't simply dismiss them, as though my
pathetic opinion matters, into oblivion (well, that's what I would be
thinking, if I were as pea-brained as all atheists).
So what makes you think your opinion matters more than anyone else's?
The fact remains that God does exist, whether or not you believe in Him
Prove it.
(and the only way to not believe in Him, is to never have had the
thought of a Divine Being cross your mind or brought to your attention,
denial is an acceptance of His Existence).
I have to give you points for a novel approach. Unfortunately, your
logic is completely idiotic. Suppose I say to you that you are a green
martian. I assume you would deny that. By your logic, your denial is
irrelevant, because since you've been introduced to the idea that you
are a green martian, then you must be a green martian.
When an atheist tells me
that they are an atheist, I tell them that their lack of faith is
disturbing, and leave it at that, because I don't have the time to
explain to them the difference.
And yet here you are, trying to explain it anyway. And not succeeding,
either.
Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life?
For the few precious years I have on Earth I would rather be happy than
unhappy. If I led an indecent life (by my standards) I would not be
very happy. If I led an immoral life (by my standards) then I would not
be very happy. If I lead an indecent life according to the laws of my
society, then I would be put in prison, and I would not be very happy.
If I treated other people like *****, they would hate me, and I would
not be very happy. I can't believe you haven't figured this out.
It seems pointless if
after we die, there's no hope for us.
Just because you wish for eternal life doesn't mean you'll get it. Just
because you don't see the point doesn't mean there isn't one.
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 09:06:10 PM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1137436626.387268.231040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
<SNIP>
(and the only way to not believe in Him, is to never have had the
thought of a Divine Being cross your mind or brought to your attention,
denial is an acceptance of His Existence).
I have to give you points for a novel approach. Unfortunately, your
logic is completely idiotic. Suppose I say to you that you are a green
martian. I assume you would deny that. By your logic, your denial is
irrelevant, because since you've been introduced to the idea that you
are a green martian, then you must be a green martian.
It's rare that a new fallacy is encountered and I'm sure I have seen this
specific idiocy before but I am not sure of the formal name. Lets see, "You
know of an assertion, therefore you must believe the assertion is true".
Well it's obviously a trivially stupid non sequitur but is it a named
fallacy?
Klazmon.
When an atheist tells me
that they are an atheist, I tell them that their lack of faith is
disturbing, and leave it at that, because I don't have the time to
explain to them the difference.
And yet here you are, trying to explain it anyway. And not succeeding,
either.
Atheists, I have a question for you, if there is no God, what is the
point of trying to live a decent and moral life?
For the few precious years I have on Earth I would rather be happy than
unhappy. If I led an indecent life (by my standards) I would not be
very happy. If I led an immoral life (by my standards) then I would not
be very happy. If I lead an indecent life according to the laws of my
society, then I would be put in prison, and I would not be very happy.
If I treated other people like *****, they would hate me, and I would
not be very happy. I can't believe you haven't figured this out.
It seems pointless if
after we die, there's no hope for us.
Just because you wish for eternal life doesn't mean you'll get it. Just
because you don't see the point doesn't mean there isn't one.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 04:58:01 PM |
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In <1137436626.387268.231040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Neil Kelsey"
<neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
Can they exist in other parts of the world?
And if I don't exist, do I still have to pay taxes?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Charity hospital closes for good
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F3D51207C
A city on hold
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y3E55207C
If Katrina was a "judgment," god hates poor people
and churches but loves a good party...
http://www.nola.com/mardigras/
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 05:05:56 PM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <1137436626.387268.231040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Neil Kelsey"
<neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
Can they exist in other parts of the world?
And if I don't exist, do I still have to pay taxes?
Good point. Maybe you should vote Republican, after all.
.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
17 Jan 2006 09:51:02 AM |
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On 16 Jan 2006 15:05:56 -0800, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <1137436626.387268.231040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Neil Kelsey"
<neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
Can they exist in other parts of the world?
And if I don't exist, do I still have to pay taxes?
Good point. Maybe you should vote Republican, after all.
There are far too many nonexistant republicans as it is.
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
17 Jan 2006 12:04:28 PM |
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On 17 Jan 2006 09:51:02 -0600, (Kate ) wrote:
On 16 Jan 2006 15:05:56 -0800, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <1137436626.387268.231040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Neil Kelsey"
<neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:
TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
Can they exist in other parts of the world?
And if I don't exist, do I still have to pay taxes?
Good point. Maybe you should vote Republican, after all.
There are far too many nonexistant republicans as it is.
And they all voted last time around. <G>
.
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 08:08:36 AM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
You know, denial is not just a river in Egypt.. and it won't make all
those nasty atheists just disappear!
RS
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| User: "Les Hemmings" |
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| Title: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
16 Jan 2006 08:11:37 AM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
nominated portion..
, atheists cannot exist in the
United States of America, it is impossible.
They don't seem to comprehend that by simply saying that there is no
God, proves that in their minds, He does in fact exist.
Les
--
Remove Frontal Lobes to reply direct.
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Epicurus
Les Hemmings a.a #2251 SA
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
18 Jan 2006 10:35:10 PM |
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Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
Larry
.
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| User: "Les Hemmings" |
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| Title: Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
19 Jan 2006 11:34:49 AM |
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wrote:
Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
Larry
Well Larry, seeing as Epicurus died in 270BC they've had long enough to
digest the idea. But surely the evangelical right in the us still hold that
their particular god is omnipotent and omniscient?
Les
--
Remove Frontal Lobes to reply direct.
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Epicurus
Les Hemmings a.a #2251 SA
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
19 Jan 2006 11:55:07 PM |
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Les Hemmings wrote:
lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:
Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
Larry
Well Larry, seeing as Epicurus died in 270BC they've had long enough to
digest the idea. But surely the evangelical right in the us still hold that
their particular god is omnipotent and omniscient?
Les
Every thiest I have argued with on these news groups have
claimed that God is omnipotent, if the subject ever came
up. I suppose they are worried that somewhere out there
it would be possible for there to be a mighter God if theirs
was not infintely mighty, in which case it would at worst be
a tie.
Larry
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
20 Jan 2006 02:31:42 AM |
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|
On 19 Jan 2006 21:55:07 -0800, "lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu"
<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
- Refer: <1137736507.345484.160690@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Les Hemmings wrote:
lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:
Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
Larry
Well Larry, seeing as Epicurus died in 270BC they've had long enough to
digest the idea. But surely the evangelical right in the us still hold that
their particular god is omnipotent and omniscient?
Les
Every thiest I have argued with on these news groups have
claimed that God is omnipotent, if the subject ever came
up. I suppose they are worried that somewhere out there
it would be possible for there to be a mighter God if theirs
was not infintely mighty, in which case it would at worst be
a tie.
Larry
Of course, the sub-population of theists who post "proofs" in
alt.atheism, is self-selected for obnoxious mental characteristics.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
20 Jan 2006 11:29:44 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:34:49 -0000, "Les Hemmings"
<les.frontalclaire@lobesvirgin.net> wrote in alt.atheism
lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:
Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
Larry
Well Larry, seeing as Epicurus died in 270BC they've had long enough to
digest the idea. But surely the evangelical right in the us still hold that
their particular god is omnipotent and omniscient?
And the babble is inerrent.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
20 Jan 2006 08:13:30 AM |
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|
On 18 Jan 2006 20:35:10 -0800, "lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu"
<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> in news message
<1137645310.555532.137370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
If their GodŽ is not omnipotent, there is no reason to believe that he
can save them.
If there is no salvation, there is no reason to worship.
Therefore, since they worship, GodŽ is omnipotent.
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: AQOTM Nomination |
20 Jan 2006 11:30:58 PM |
|
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On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:13:30 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot
exist in the United States of America, it is impossible.
On 18 Jan 2006 20:35:10 -0800, "lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu"
<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> in news message
<1137645310.555532.137370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
/begin
If their GodŽ is not omnipotent, there is no reason to believe that he
can save them.
If there is no salvation, there is no reason to worship.
Therefore, since they worship, GodŽ is omnipotent.
/end
Seconds?
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
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| User: "Hannele Huigens" |
|
| Title: Re: AQOTM Nomination |
21 Jan 2006 03:09:17 PM |
|
|
Op Sat, 21 Jan 2006 06:30:58 +0100 schreef stoney <stoney@the.net>:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:13:30 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot
exist in the United States of America, it is impossible.
On 18 Jan 2006 20:35:10 -0800, "lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu"
<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> in news message
<1137645310.555532.137370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
/begin
If their GodŽ is not omnipotent, there is no reason to believe that he
can save them.
If there is no salvation, there is no reason to worship.
Therefore, since they worship, GodŽ is omnipotent.
/end
Seconds?
This it the best god-prood yet, I'll second it.
--
Hannele
aa #2221
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
|
| Title: Re: AQOTM Nomination |
22 Jan 2006 04:06:45 AM |
|
|
In article <op.s3qydrfxvjeuhq@laptophannele>,
"Hannele Huigens" <Hannele@lycos.nl> wrote:
Op Sat, 21 Jan 2006 06:30:58 +0100 schreef stoney <stoney@the.net>:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:13:30 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot
exist in the United States of America, it is impossible.
On 18 Jan 2006 20:35:10 -0800, "lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu"
<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> in news message
<1137645310.555532.137370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
/begin
If their GodŽ is not omnipotent, there is no reason to believe that he
can save them.
If there is no salvation, there is no reason to worship.
Therefore, since they worship, GodŽ is omnipotent.
/end
Seconds?
This it the best god-prood yet, I'll second it.
Recorded.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: TQOTM??Re: Self proclaimed atheists make me sick, atheists cannot exist in the United States of America, it is impossible. |
20 Jan 2006 10:29:11 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:13:30 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On 18 Jan 2006 20:35:10 -0800, "lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu"
<lseib@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> in news message
<1137645310.555532.137370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Les Hemmings wrote:
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Hi Les,
Sorry but I must reply to your sig.
It seems so obvious that theists
can rescue God by simply agreeing that
he is not omnipotent. Yet that I have never
argued with a theist who would agree to
this. absolutely amazing
If their GodŽ is not omnipotent, there is no reason to believe that he
can save them.
If there is no salvation, there is no reason to worship.
Therefore, since they worship, GodŽ is omnipotent.
Hmm, that logic is based on the worshippers being logical.
Do you think they act logically?
Slight flaw in your argument there methinks? :-)
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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