<hughbetcha@yessiree.ca> wrote in message
news:ob6dndhAB6hJYlndRVn2uQ@giganews.com...

On 6-Jun-2004, "Editor of EvilBible.com" <Dont_Reply@Here.com> wrote:

LOL Chirrs isn't very rational. That's why you can't reason with him. It's
more entertaining to make kid him....like ah doing parodies of his threads;
what you've done.

He holds up the Bible and proclaims 'see this is the ugly side of your
morality'. I can hold up Relativism and say 'see this is the ugly side of
materialism'.

Mother Nature is a dispassionate ***** who doesn't give a damn
about sensibilities.

The purpose of that clump of cells is to grow into a living, breathing,
thinking human being. And until *you* define when life starts (the line,
remember?), mine is the only definition we have.

The cell is by definition the smallest unit of life. The only objective
criteria for when human life begins is conception. All others after that are
decidedly subjective have no scientific defined criteria.

But even then, as
I've told Chris, there is no scientific discription for personhood. 'Person'
is a postive law legal term.

The question comes down to the, Tirebitter (no
misspelling) should appreciate this, whether Positive Law is in accord with
Natural Rights.

There is not an acceptable replacement for embryonic stem cells at this
time. Every day that goes by means that more people are likely to die

or

remain cripples because of your insane and immoral beliefs that a clump

of

cells is the same as a human. It's time you grew up and accept the
responsibility of your actions. You are the moral equivalent of a mass
murderer. Wake up and smell the death at your hands.

Mother Nature is a dispassionate ***** who doesn't give a damn about your
sensibilities.

<hughbetcha@yessiree.ca> wrote in message
news:ob6dndhAB6hJYlndRVn2uQ@giganews.com...

On 6-Jun-2004, "Editor of EvilBible.com" <Dont_Reply@Here.com> wrote:

Of course people and organizations make changes. They often make

mistakes

and sometimes contradict themselves. That's why it's important to

analyze

the facts yourself instead of just assuming that the church is always
right.
Would you blindly accept the church's past instructions allowing

and
enslaving infidels if you lived at that time?

I'm fairly well educated on the Church's moral teachings. I've given

quite a bit of thought, and 95% of them I have to admit are right.
Superficially, life would be easier if they weren't, but I believe we

called to a deeper and more profound existence. Now, the 5% is

problematic,

is it an acceptable margin of error? Who am I to think that I'm right on
that 5%, given that the Church has been right on the other 95%? She is a
human institution, and can make mistakes. However, She has a fairly good
track record over 2000 years. No other organization of any kind has even
lasted that long. So, I give Her the benefit of the doubt and obey the

(sometimes it's a struggle...)

"Mostly right" doesn't equal "always right". It's time for you to grow up
and figure that out.

You really need to read your Bible some more. The so-called Ten
Commandments in Exodus 20 were given as part of a covenant. This

covenant

clearly states that if the Israelites obeyed the commandments God

give
them military victories and allow them to exterminate the people of

"promised land" and take their land.

True, but the Commandments represent God's will for His people, and now

that

everyone is included in the New Covenant, they are just as important.

God's will for his people included the extermination of entire nations so
that his chosen people could live on their land. I don't see how this is
morally acceptable.

Why do you keep repeating this lie? I have show you many times that

this

is
factually incorrect. Simply repeating the same lie over and over

won't make it come true.

You showed a declaration of crusade, and couple of other quotes from

documents that were taken out of context. I showed several official

flat-out

condemnations of slavery and gave reference to many more. The weight of
evidence is on my side.

There was nothing taken out of context. These Vatican quotes were from
Catholic sources who agree with me that the Vatican has both approved and
disapproved of slavery at different times. Only a complete idiot like
yourself would think otherwise.

Hitler was a fucking Roman Catholic. See my web page at:
http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm Why do you continue

to

believe the lies of the Vatican when they try to distance themselves

from

the truth? Once again, simply repeating the same lie won't make it

true.

Ol' Adolph was born into a Catholic family. Pol Pot was a Buddhist. So
what?
Let's hear it from the man himself:

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest

blow

that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is
Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The
deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world

Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the

of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things."

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against

nature.

Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic
cultivation of the human failure."

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When
understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian

will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of
absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....

...the

only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by
little.... Christianity [is] the liar.... We'll see to it that the

Churches

cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the

State."

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that

it

knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

You know what? He sounds like... an ATHEIST.

All these quotes are taken from one book "Table Talk". There are many
problems with this book. See http://www.nobeliefs.com/HitlerSources.htm

Hitler really felt this way perhaps you could find some quotes in his
thousands of other speeches and writings. The problem is you can't.

I see the lower birth rate in the richer countries a sign of growing
secularism, unfortunatly, and the selfish, self absorbtion that

with
it. They have *more*, and they need *more*, and children interfere

with

the

getting and enjoying of *more*

And I see it as being generous to the next generation. Why would

want to leave their children to die of disease and starvation in an
overpopulated country that they created?

The countries with a low birth rate are the richest ones. We've

established

that. Hundreds of thousands of people immigrate to these countries

annually

and there is still more than enough to go around. So I have to conclude

that

folks in those countries (including mine and yours) are just too selfish

to

share that enormous wealth with children.

What a bunch of crap! (As usual)

These countries are too poor for birth control, and the Vatican is

trying

to
block humanitarian organizations from providing birth control.

You're stating to sound paranoid. Big Bad Vatican. BOO!

You have always sounded like a completely ignorant idiot. Don't you even
know what your church is doing?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/381827.stm

No, Jesus wasn't advocating celibacy, he was clearly advocating
castration.
But I understand your refusal to obey Jesus. It shows you have at

a

little bit of common sense. It's too bad you only use it when your

welfare is threatened. Why don't you try using it when other people's
welfare is threatened?

(smacking my head in fustration) okay, we're hung up on the word

aren't we?

I know how to read. You apparently have to make stuff up.

I think that early embryos, which are incapable of thinking or feeling
because they have no central nervous system, are not humans at all.

They

are human cells. There is nothing morally wrong with killing these

cells.

It is no different than throwing out a blood sample, a biopsy, or a

piece

of
hair with scalp tissue on the end.

The line! Where's the line? When the nervous system is fully formed?
Partially formed? When?

I'll have to crack open my biology books for the details, but I'm sure you
don't want details, you want excuses. A week old embryo clearly doesn't
have a nervous system, not even a partially formed one.

At later stages, the fetus gradually gets more rights that go along

it's development.

I think the right to life is the only one we're concerned with. Liberty

and

the pursuit of happiness can come after birth.

So why does a clump of cells smaller than a pin head deserve a right to
life?

You and the rest of you stupid-assed Christians obviously have one

fucked

up
definition of what a person is. A clump of cells is not a fucking
person!!!

The purpose of that clump of cells is to grow into a living, breathing,
thinking human being. And until *you* define when life starts (the line,
remember?), mine is the only definition we have.

Are you really that ignorant??? Do you really think that you have the

definition of when life starts???

rights starting at birth. Others think a fetus has rights when it is

outside the womb. The Supreme Court of the US has a three tier system.

You are moral the equivalent of a mass murderer because of your

for
the ban on medical research that will most likely save many lives and
benefit all of mankind.

Are we *really* benefiting mankind by destroying the innocents among us?

A clump of cells the size of a pin head is not a person.

fucking ignorant *****. Just because the immoral assholes at the

say it is so doesn't mean it's true. Hell, they are so fucking stupid

think the Eucharist and sacramental wine are actually turned into the

and blood of Jesus by transubstantiation!

reality instead of living in your fantasy world of gods and ghosts.

live people are dying because for *your* greed, stupidity, and willful
ignorance. Your immorality is shocking!

Like I said before, I don't know how you sleep at
night with all the immoral things that you approve of. It's obvious

that

your selfish and greedy desire for a place in a fictional paradise has
caused you to abandon all your intelligence and become a moronic idiot

who

simply repeats whatever the Church tells you to say.

Hey, we'll never get to paradise if we give up trying. Besides, what

your desire for a paradise were no one suffers from disease or

debilitation,

and lives to 150? All it will cost is some embryos, fetuses, infants...

I see you have to resort to outright lying to support your insane

I was talking about week old embryos not fetuses or infants. But I'm not
surprised that you are a liar. It's goes along with the rest of your
immorality. Nor am I surprised at how fucking stupid your lies are. It
goes along with your lack of intelligence.

It's time to face
reality and accept responsibility for the immoral actions that you are
doing, so that innocent people don't have to die for your stupidity

your
greedy desires.

Greedy desires? We're not the ones who want your 'paradise' or clones,

blonde haired blue eyed genetically engineerd super children...

More fucking lies. If you need to lie to support your arguments then your
arguments are probably wrong. Why can't you address the issue at hand
instead of making up a bunch of strawman arguments.

can't think for yourself, you simply blindly repeat what the Vatican says
and pray that will get you into heaven. How fucking moronic!

Innocent people, that's right. Innocent people. We want to protect

innocent

people.

What a bunch of crap! You want to pretend that you are morally superior

others by claiming that you are defending innocent people. In reality you
are claiming that a clump of cells, which is smaller that a pin head, is a
human.

won't let them get modern medical treatments.

No, you Christian assholes are fucking immoral idiots. You yourself

the
moral equivalent of a mass murderer. Of course you don't realize this
because you let your greedy desire for heaven overtake your

and
rationality.

There's no guarantee of Heaven, ever. It's a gift freely given by God to

us

undeserving sinners. In the meantime, we have these lives on this world,

and

we're going to do our best to make Heaven here.

You insane fairy tale has caused you to support a ban of medical research
which will help cripples walk and cure a lot more diseases. You are lying
once again when you say that you are doing your best to make heaven on
earth. You are doing the exact opposite.

You said that the morally correct thing is to lock up Nazis, not

them. Since the allies executed them, the only logical conclusion is

that

you believe the allies have acted immorally. You just refuse to

the
logical conclusion of the Vatican's teachings, and like a robot you
blindly
accept them.

Yeah, but I also said that it could be argued that they posed a threat

people even if they were locked up forever, and therefore, executing

would be justifiable.

That's a pitiful excuse.

There is not an acceptable replacement for embryonic stem cells at

time. Every day that goes by means that more people are likely to die

or

remain cripples because of your insane and immoral beliefs that a

of

cells is the same as a human. It's time you grew up and accept the
responsibility of your actions. You are the moral equivalent of a

murderer. Wake up and smell the death at your hands.

The unfortunate people who may die or remain handicapped have had the
privilege of living lives. It is immoral to create a life and then
immediatly snuff it out.

Are you going to provide an argument as to why a clump of cells, smaller
than a pin head, is a person. No person I know looks like that.

you do have a striking similarity in that you have no brains.

You are a fucking idiot who blindly follows whatever the Church says
because
of your selfish and greedy desire to get to heaven. You are morally

different than a suicide bomber.

That's quite a stretch. A suicide bomber murders indiscriminately out of
blind hatred (and the desire for 72 virgins) We do what we do for the

of the whole human race.

A week old embryo is not a human. You do what you do because you want to
feel good about all the illogical suffering that your insane religious
beliefs cause. You are willing to let real live humans die to support

church's fairy tale idea of biology. It's immoral as hell.

I don't see how the Vatican apologized for anything when it says that

the

Vatican can't sin.

The Vatican City is a sovereign nation, it's very small and wasn't

involved

with the whole inquisition thing. It's most famous citizen, Pope John

II, didn't have anything to do with it either, yet he expressed regret

apologized, hoping to find closure for the issue. Not good enough for

people! EvilEd has a looong memory! Though I doubt he was around 600

ago to witness the event, he's still psychologically scarred!

You need to accept your responsibility for the deaths caused by your
support
for the ban on stem cell research.

Okay, but you need to accept responsibilty for the deaths caused by your
support for stem cell research.

Dead cells, no moral problem. Dead people, big moral problem.

"Mostly right" doesn't equal "always right".

God's will for his people included the extermination of entire nations so
that his chosen people could live on their land. I don't see how this is
morally acceptable.

There was nothing taken out of context. These Vatican quotes were from
Catholic sources who agree with me that the Vatican has both approved and
disapproved of slavery at different times. Only a complete idiot like
yourself would think otherwise.

All these quotes are taken from one book "Table Talk". There are many
problems with this book. See http://www.nobeliefs.com/HitlerSources.htm
If
Hitler really felt this way perhaps you could find some quotes in his
thousands of other speeches and writings. The problem is you can't.

The countries with a low birth rate are the richest ones. We've
established that. Hundreds of thousands of people immigrate to these
countries annually and there is still more than enough to go around. So
I have to conclude that folks in those countries (including mine and
yours) are just too selfish to share that enormous wealth with children.

What a bunch of crap! (As usual)

You have always sounded like a completely ignorant idiot. Don't you even
know what your church is doing?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/381827.stm

http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/new/inthenews/RowOverBirthControl8899.htm

http://www.seechange.org/what's%20new/Minister%20condemns%20Vatican%20over%20birth%20control.htm

(smacking my head in fustration) okay, we're hung up on the word 'eunuch'
aren't we?

I know how to read. You apparently have to make stuff up.

'll have to crack open my biology books for the details, but I'm sure you
don't want details, you want excuses. A week old embryo clearly doesn't
have a nervous system, not even a partially formed one.

So why does a clump of cells smaller than a pin head deserve a right to
life?

Are you really that ignorant??? Do you really think that you have the
only
definition of when life starts???

Many people believe that a human has rights starting at birth.

Others think a fetus has rights when it is viable
outside the womb.

The Supreme Court of the US has a three tier system.

A clump of cells the size of a pin head is not a person. Don't be such a
fucking ignorant *****. Just because the immoral assholes at the
Vatican
say it is so doesn't mean it's true. Hell, they are so fucking stupid
they
think the Eucharist and sacramental wine are actually turned into the
flesh
and blood of Jesus by transubstantiation!

It's time you grow up and face
reality instead of living in your fantasy world of gods and ghosts. Real
live people are dying because for *your* greed, stupidity, and willful
ignorance. Your immorality is shocking!

I see you have to resort to outright lying to support your insane
argument.
I was talking about week old embryos not fetuses or infants. But I'm not
surprised that you are a liar. It's goes along with the rest of your
immorality. Nor am I surprised at how fucking stupid your lies are. It
goes along with your lack of intelligence.
More fucking lies. If you need to lie to support your arguments then your
arguments are probably wrong. Why can't you address the issue at hand
instead of making up a bunch of strawman arguments. Oh that's right, you
can't think for yourself, you simply blindly repeat what the Vatican says
and pray that will get you into heaven. How fucking moronic!

What a bunch of crap! You want to pretend that you are morally superior
to
others by claiming that you are defending innocent people. In reality you
are claiming that a clump of cells, which is smaller that a pin head, is a
human. And you are letting real live people suffer and die because you
won't let them get modern medical treatments.

You insane fairy tale has caused you to support a ban of medical research
which will help cripples walk and cure a lot more diseases. You are lying
once again when you say that you are doing your best to make heaven on
earth. You are doing the exact opposite.

Yeah, but I also said that it could be argued that they posed a threat
to
people even if they were locked up forever, and therefore, executing
them
would be justifiable.

That's a pitiful excuse.

Are you going to provide an argument as to why a clump of cells, smaller
than a pin head, is a person.

No person I know looks like that. However,
you do have a striking similarity in that you have no brains.

A week old embryo is not a human. You do what you do because you want to
feel good about all the illogical suffering that your insane religious
beliefs cause. You are willing to let real live humans die to support
your
church's fairy tale idea of biology. It's immoral as hell.