| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
08 May 2007 07:06:41 AM |
| Object: |
Sep C&S History Lessons #12 |
JANUARY 27, 1801
SCHOOL BOOKS
The Palladium, JANUARY, 27, 1801
IT HAS BEEN THE CUSTOM, of late years, to put a number of little books into
the hands of children, containing fables and moral lessons. This is very
well, because it is right first to raise curiosity, and then to guide it.
Many books for children are, however, judiciously compiled; the language is
too much raised above the ideas of that tender age; the moral is drawn from
the fable, they know not why; and when they gain wisdom from experience,
they will see the restrictions and exceptions which are necessary to the
rules of conduct laid down in their books, but which such books do not
give. Some of the most admired works of this kind abound with a frothy sort
of sentiment, as the readers of novels are pleased to call it, the chief
merit of which consists in shedding tears, and giving away money. Is it
right, or agreeable to good sense, to try to make the tender age more
tender'' Pity and generosity, though amiable impulses, are blind ones, and
as we grow older are to be managed by rules, and restrained by wisdom.
It is not clear that the heart, at thirty, is any the softer for weeping,
at ten, over one of Berquin's fables, the point of which turns on a beggar
boy's being ragged, and a rich man's son being well clad. Some persons,
indeed, appear to have shed all their tears of sympathy before they reach
the period of mature age. Most young hearts are tender, and tender enough;
the object of education is rather to direct these emotions, however
amiable, than to augment them.(2)
Why then, if these books for children must be retained, as they will be,
should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its
morals are pure, its examples captivating and noble. The reverence for the
sacred book that is thus early impressed lasts long; and probably, if not
impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind. One consideration
more is important. In no book is there so good English, so pure and so
elegant; and by teaching all the same book, they will speak alike, and the
Bible will justly remain the standard of language as well as of faith. A
barbarous provincial jargon will be banished, and taste, corrupted by
pompous Johnsonian affectation, will be restored.
FOOTNOTE
(2) Probnbly Amaud Berquin, (ca.) 1749-1791 . The Looking Glass for
the Mind ... Stories and Tales Chiefly translated from L'Ami des
Enfants.
SOURCE OF INFORMATION:
Written by Fisher Ames, Jan. 27, 1801. Works of Fisher Ames, by Seth Ames.
Volume 1, Edited and enlarged by W.B. Allen, Liberty Classics, (1983) pp
11-12
THE DOCUMENTARY HISTORY OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE OF
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
1750-1947 Vol 5
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
----------------------
.
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sep C&S History Lessons #12 |
15 May 2007 05:13:02 AM |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|On May 8, 7:06 am, wrote:
:|> JANUARY 27, 1801
:|>
:|> SCHOOL BOOKS
:|>
:|> The Palladium, JANUARY, 27, 1801
:|>
:|> IT HAS BEEN THE CUSTOM, of late years, to put a number of little books into
:|> the hands of children, containing fables and moral lessons. This is very
:|> well, because it is right first to raise curiosity, and then to guide it.
:|> Many books for children are, however, judiciously compiled; the language is
:|> too much raised above the ideas of that tender age; the moral is drawn from
:|> the fable, they know not why; and when they gain wisdom from experience,
:|> they will see the restrictions and exceptions which are necessary to the
:|> rules of conduct laid down in their books, but which such books do not
:|> give. Some of the most admired works of this kind abound with a frothy sort
:|> of sentiment, as the readers of novels are pleased to call it, the chief
:|> merit of which consists in shedding tears, and giving away money. Is it
:|> right, or agreeable to good sense, to try to make the tender age more
:|> tender'' Pity and generosity, though amiable impulses, are blind ones, and
:|> as we grow older are to be managed by rules, and restrained by wisdom.
:|>
:|> It is not clear that the heart, at thirty, is any the softer for weeping,
:|> at ten, over one of Berquin's fables, the point of which turns on a beggar
:|> boy's being ragged, and a rich man's son being well clad. Some persons,
:|> indeed, appear to have shed all their tears of sympathy before they reach
:|> the period of mature age. Most young hearts are tender, and tender enough;
:|> the object of education is rather to direct these emotions, however
:|> amiable, than to augment them.(2)
:|>
:|> Why then, if these books for children must be retained, as they will be,
:|> should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its
:|> morals are pure, its examples captivating and noble. The reverence for the
:|> sacred book that is thus early impressed lasts long; and probably, if not
:|> impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind. One consideration
:|> more is important. In no book is there so good English, so pure and so
:|> elegant; and by teaching all the same book, they will speak alike, and the
:|> Bible will justly remain the standard of language as well as of faith. A
:|> barbarous provincial jargon will be banished, and taste, corrupted by
:|> pompous Johnsonian affectation, will be restored.
:|> FOOTNOTE
:|> (2) Probnbly Amaud Berquin, (ca.) 1749-1791 . The Looking Glass for
:|> the Mind ... Stories and Tales Chiefly translated from L'Ami des
:|> Enfants.
:|> SOURCE OF INFORMATION:
:|> Written by Fisher Ames, Jan. 27, 1801. Works of Fisher Ames, by Seth Ames.
:|> Volume 1, Edited and enlarged by W.B. Allen, Liberty Classics, (1983) pp
:|> 11-12
:|> THE DOCUMENTARY HISTORY OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE OF
:|> SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
:|> 1750-1947 Vol 5
:|>
:|
:|>From the Mississippi state Constitution...
:|"SECTION 18
:|...The rights hereby secured shall not be construed to justify
:|acts of licentiousness injurious to morals or dangerous to the peace
:|and safety of the state, or to exclude the Holy Bible from use in any
:|public school of this state."
:|
:|-Quote supplied from my own book, A Nation Under God...
:|
I gues you failed to realize the fact that Fisher Ames was bemoaning the
fact that the Bible was already as early as 1801 no longer beiing used in
Public Schools in Mass, a state with a estabislned religion.
But on second thought you were also the same idiot who posted the
following:
The above is from the same guy who brought you this
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|On May 4, 5:31 am, wrote:
:|> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|>
:|>
:|>
:|> >:|On May 1, 7:13 am, wrote:
:|> >:|> Religion was become avowedly the attribute of man and not of a corpo
:|> >:|> Message #9272 of 9293
:|> >:|> 1888
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> Bancroft on the Constitution
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> "The Constitution establishes nothing that interferes with equality
:|> >:|> and individuality. It knows nothing of differences by descent, or
:|> >:|> opinions, of favored classes, or legalized religion, or the political
:|> >:|> power of property. It leaves the individual alongside of the
:|> >:|> individual. No nationality of character could take form, except on the
:|> >:|> principle of individuality, so that the mind might be free, and every
:|> >:|> faculty have the unlimited opportunity for its development and culture
:|> >:|> . . . .
:|> >:|> "The rule of individuality was extended as never before . . . .
:|> >:|> Religion was become avowedly the attribute of man and not of a
:|> >:|> corporation. In the earliest states known to history, government and
:|> >:|> religion were one and indivisible. Each state had its special deity,
:|> >:|> and of these protectors one after another might be overthrown in
:|> >:|> battle, never to rise again. The Peloponnesian War grew out of a
:|> >:|> strife about an oracle. Rome, as it adopted into citizenship those
:|> >:|> whom it vanquished, sometimes introduced, and with good logic for that
:|> >:|> day, the worship of their gods. No one thought of vindicating liberty
:|> >:|> of religion for the conscience of the individual till a voice in
:|> >:|> Judea, breaking day for the greatest epoch in the life of humanity by
:|> >:|> establishing for all mankind a pure, spiritual, and universal
:|> >:|> religion, enjoined to render to Caesar only that which is Caesar's.
:|> >:|> The rule was upheld during the infancy of this gospel for all men. No
:|> >:|> sooner was the religion of freedom adopted by the chief of the Roman
:|> >:|> Empire, than it was shorn of its character of universality and
:|> >:|> enthralled by an unholy connection with the unholy state; and so it
:|> >:|> continued till the new nation-the least defiled with the barren
:|> >:|> scoffings of the eighteenth century, the most sincere believer in
:|> >:|> Christianity of any people of that age, the chief heir of the
:|> >:|> Reformation in its purest form-when it came to establish a government
:|> >:|> for the United States, refused to treat faith as a matter to be
:|> >:|> regulated by a corporate body, or having a headship in a monarch or a
:|> >:|> state.
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> "Vindicating the right of individuality even in religion, and in
:|> >:|> religion above all, the new nation dared to set the example of
:|> >:|> accepting in its relations to God the principle first divinely
:|> >:|> ordained in Judea. It left the management of temporal things to the
:|> >:|> temporal power; but the American Constitution, in harmony with the
:|> >:|> people of the several States, withheld from the Federal Government the
:|> >:|> power to invade the home of reason, the citadel of conscience, the
:|> >:|> sanctuary of the soul; and not from indifference, but that the
:|> >:|> infinite spirit of eternal truth might move in its freedom and purity
:|> >:|> and power. "
:|> >:|> (SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Bancroft, George, "History of the United
:|> >:|> States" (1888), Vol. VI, pp. 443, 444. American State Papers on
:|> >:|> Freedom in Religion. 3rd Revised Edition. Published in 1943 for The
:|> >:|> Religious Liberty Association, Washington, D.C. by the Review and
:|> >:|> Herald. First Edition Compiled by William Addison Blakely, of the
:|> >:|> Chicago Bar. (1890) under the Title American State Papers Bearing on
:|> >:|> Sunday Legislation. pp 140-141)
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|
:|> >:|Continental Congress Thanksgiving Proclamation (1779):
:|> >:|"...too few have been sufficiently awakened to a sense of their guilt,
:|> >:|or warmed our Bosoms with gratitude, or taught to amend their lives
:|> >:|and turn from their sins, that so He might turn from His wrath."
:|>
:|> Duh.
:|>
:|> When was the Constitution framed?
:|> When was the Constitution ratified by the states?
:|> When did the US of A, you know, this nation under that Constitution
:|> actually begin operation?
:|>
:|> Your example above is irrelevant since the answers to the above questions are
:|> all AFTER 1779.
:|>
:|> Better luck next time
:|>
:|
:|DUH! Your post was about the Constitution, and this is from the
:|Constitutional Convention. Pay attention next time.
:|
:|Ken Clifton
:|christiansuperhero.com
More accurately
Christian Idiot and internet troll
Duh and double DUH
Had you bothered to have answered the questions I posed to you above, even
if only silently in your own mind, you would have realized your mistake
and not provided further evidence that you are an idiot who doesn't know
what you are talking about.
Answers to the questions
Q. When was the Constitution framed?
A. 1787
Q. When was the Constitution ratified by the states?
A. In the period of late 1787 - 1788
Q. When did the US of A, you know, this nation under that Constitution
actually begin operation?
A. March 1789
Dude anythign that happned in 1779 is totally irrelevant and was not in any
way shape or form part of the Constitutional Convention which took place
thought the summer of 1787
A mind is a powereful thing to waste.
My condescendence on your wasted mind
(grin)
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sep C&S History Lessons #12 |
20 May 2007 02:47:43 AM |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
:|On May 15, 8:53 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
:|> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|>
:|> >I guess you can't read. My reply was about Mississippi's constitution
:|> >and how that state has it right in their constitution that the Bible
:|> >CANNOT be denied as a textbook.
:|>
:|> Alas, but the 14th amendment and the 1st amendment denies Mississippi
:|> the right to have that in their constitution, so it is a nullity.
:|>
:|> Alabama has constitutional requirements for segregation, and they are
:|> similarly a nullity.
:|>
:|> lojbab
:|
:|You ARE Buckeye...aren't you? I've been ignoring and avoiding your
:|posts for the past few days and will continue to do so after this.
:|However, I took a few moments to review your history. As I increased
:|my responses to Buckeye, I found more replies by you. As my
:|discussions with you became heated, Buckeye showed anger to me. I
:|believe you are two of the same individual. As you look back over the
:|past year, your posting history almost entirely proves it.
:|
:|Ken Clifton
:|christiansuperhero.com
This is way too funny.
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sep C&S History Lessons #12 |
20 May 2007 02:50:29 AM |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
:|On May 15, 9:03 am, Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:|> On May 15, 8:57 am, Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:|>
:|>
:|>
:|> > On May 15, 8:53 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
:|>
:|> > > Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|>
:|> > > >I guess you can't read. My reply was about Mississippi's constitution
:|> > > >and how that state has it right in their constitution that the Bible
:|> > > >CANNOT be denied as a textbook.
:|>
:|> > > Alas, but the 14th amendment and the 1st amendment denies Mississippi
:|> > > the right to have that in their constitution, so it is a nullity.
:|>
:|> > > Alabama has constitutional requirements for segregation, and they are
:|> > > similarly a nullity.
:|>
:|> > > lojbab
:|>
:|> > You ARE Buckeye...aren't you? I've been ignoring and avoiding your
:|> > posts for the past few days and will continue to do so after this.
:|> > However, I took a few moments to review your history. As I increased
:|> > my responses to Buckeye, I found more replies by you. As my
:|> > discussions with you became heated, Buckeye showed anger to me. I
:|> > believe you are two of the same individual. As you look back over the
:|> > past year, your posting history almost entirely proves it.
:|>
:|> > Ken Clifton
:|> > christiansuperhero.com
:|>
:|> YOU don't post any original posts for years. However, Buckeye posts
:|> almost only original posts. He doesn't reply to his threads often,
:|> but YOU reply to almost ALL of his discussions. However, you never
:|> reply TO him, only in defense of him. I'm convinced. Even if you
:|> made up a name for him, YOU are Buckeye.
:|>
:|> Ken Clifton
:|> christiansuperhero.com
:|
:|More research makes this appear even deeper. It appears that Buckeye,
:|Bob LeChevalier, Carol Lee Smith, and Bob and Carole are the same
:|individual...possibly a few others fall into that category.
:|
:|Ken Clifton
:|christiansuperhero.com
Sounds like you have had a major meltdown dude
You need to take time off and rest. maybe commit yoruself for awhile
Hey BTW, should you ever feel frisky enough to join the following group
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
and mosey over to the photos section you can actually see photos of Carol
and you will find photos of me as well. You will quickly see that Carol and
I am not the same person. :O)
Bob isn't a member of said group so he wouldn't have any photos there
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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