| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
01 May 2007 07:13:26 AM |
| Object: |
Sep C&S History lessons #4 |
It belongs to American liberty to separate entirely that institution
Message #9271 of 9293
1859
It belongs to American liberty to separate entirely that institution
which has for its object the support and diffusion of religion from
the political government. We have seen already what out constitution
says on this point. . . No worship shall be interfered with, either
directly by persecution, or incorrectly by disqualifying members of
certain sects, or by favoring one sect above others; and no church
shall be declared the church of the state, or shall the people be
taxed by the government to support the clergy of all churches, as in
the case in France.
(SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Francis Lieber, On Civil Liberty and Self
Government, Philadelphia, J.B. Lippincott, 1859, p. 99. Church, State,
and Freedom, by Leo Pfeffer, The Beacon Press, Boston, (1967) p.138)
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
|
| Title: Re: Sep C&S History lessons #4 |
01 May 2007 09:37:19 AM |
|
|
On May 1, 7:13 am, wrote:
It belongs to American liberty to separate entirely that institution
Message #9271 of 9293
1859
It belongs to American liberty to separate entirely that institution
which has for its object the support and diffusion of religion from
the political government. We have seen already what out constitution
says on this point. . . No worship shall be interfered with, either
directly by persecution, or incorrectly by disqualifying members of
certain sects, or by favoring one sect above others; and no church
shall be declared the church of the state, or shall the people be
taxed by the government to support the clergy of all churches, as in
the case in France.
(SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Francis Lieber, On Civil Liberty and Self
Government, Philadelphia, J.B. Lippincott, 1859, p. 99. Church, State,
and Freedom, by Leo Pfeffer, The Beacon Press, Boston, (1967) p.138)
"And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought
are still at issue around the globe - the belief that the rights of
man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of
God." - John F Kennedy in his Inaugural Address (1961).
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
Romans 3:10-11: As it is written, There is none righteous, no not
one. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh
after God.
Romans 3:23: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is
eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
****************************************************************
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sep C&S History lessons #4 |
04 May 2007 05:31:20 AM |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|On May 1, 7:13 am, wrote:
:|> It belongs to American liberty to separate entirely that institution
:|> Message #9271 of 9293
:|> 1859
:|>
:|> It belongs to American liberty to separate entirely that institution
:|> which has for its object the support and diffusion of religion from
:|> the political government. We have seen already what out constitution
:|> says on this point. . . No worship shall be interfered with, either
:|> directly by persecution, or incorrectly by disqualifying members of
:|> certain sects, or by favoring one sect above others; and no church
:|> shall be declared the church of the state, or shall the people be
:|> taxed by the government to support the clergy of all churches, as in
:|> the case in France.
:|> (SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Francis Lieber, On Civil Liberty and Self
:|> Government, Philadelphia, J.B. Lippincott, 1859, p. 99. Church, State,
:|> and Freedom, by Leo Pfeffer, The Beacon Press, Boston, (1967) p.138)
:|
:|"And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought
:|are still at issue around the globe - the belief that the rights of
:|man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of
:|God." - John F Kennedy in his Inaugural Address (1961).
:|
LOL
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/40/story_4080_1.html
[excerpt]
I Believe in an America Where the Separation of Church and State is
Absolute'
September 12, 1960, address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association
John F. Kennedy
[end excerpt]
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sep C&S History lessons #4 |
08 May 2007 04:52:35 AM |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|
:|Said in an election year (didn't you point out preaching to the choir
:|by others). My quote was AFTER elected (no one to please) and ONLY my
:|quote was by a government official speaking faith from his position.
:|
:|Ken Clifton
:|christiansuperhero.com
The above is from the same guy who brought you this
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|On May 4, 5:31 am, wrote:
:|> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|>
:|>
:|>
:|> >:|On May 1, 7:13 am, wrote:
:|> >:|> Religion was become avowedly the attribute of man and not of a corpo
:|> >:|> Message #9272 of 9293
:|> >:|> 1888
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> Bancroft on the Constitution
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> "The Constitution establishes nothing that interferes with equality
:|> >:|> and individuality. It knows nothing of differences by descent, or
:|> >:|> opinions, of favored classes, or legalized religion, or the political
:|> >:|> power of property. It leaves the individual alongside of the
:|> >:|> individual. No nationality of character could take form, except on the
:|> >:|> principle of individuality, so that the mind might be free, and every
:|> >:|> faculty have the unlimited opportunity for its development and culture
:|> >:|> . . . .
:|> >:|> "The rule of individuality was extended as never before . . . .
:|> >:|> Religion was become avowedly the attribute of man and not of a
:|> >:|> corporation. In the earliest states known to history, government and
:|> >:|> religion were one and indivisible. Each state had its special deity,
:|> >:|> and of these protectors one after another might be overthrown in
:|> >:|> battle, never to rise again. The Peloponnesian War grew out of a
:|> >:|> strife about an oracle. Rome, as it adopted into citizenship those
:|> >:|> whom it vanquished, sometimes introduced, and with good logic for that
:|> >:|> day, the worship of their gods. No one thought of vindicating liberty
:|> >:|> of religion for the conscience of the individual till a voice in
:|> >:|> Judea, breaking day for the greatest epoch in the life of humanity by
:|> >:|> establishing for all mankind a pure, spiritual, and universal
:|> >:|> religion, enjoined to render to Caesar only that which is Caesar's.
:|> >:|> The rule was upheld during the infancy of this gospel for all men. No
:|> >:|> sooner was the religion of freedom adopted by the chief of the Roman
:|> >:|> Empire, than it was shorn of its character of universality and
:|> >:|> enthralled by an unholy connection with the unholy state; and so it
:|> >:|> continued till the new nation-the least defiled with the barren
:|> >:|> scoffings of the eighteenth century, the most sincere believer in
:|> >:|> Christianity of any people of that age, the chief heir of the
:|> >:|> Reformation in its purest form-when it came to establish a government
:|> >:|> for the United States, refused to treat faith as a matter to be
:|> >:|> regulated by a corporate body, or having a headship in a monarch or a
:|> >:|> state.
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|> "Vindicating the right of individuality even in religion, and in
:|> >:|> religion above all, the new nation dared to set the example of
:|> >:|> accepting in its relations to God the principle first divinely
:|> >:|> ordained in Judea. It left the management of temporal things to the
:|> >:|> temporal power; but the American Constitution, in harmony with the
:|> >:|> people of the several States, withheld from the Federal Government the
:|> >:|> power to invade the home of reason, the citadel of conscience, the
:|> >:|> sanctuary of the soul; and not from indifference, but that the
:|> >:|> infinite spirit of eternal truth might move in its freedom and purity
:|> >:|> and power. "
:|> >:|> (SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Bancroft, George, "History of the United
:|> >:|> States" (1888), Vol. VI, pp. 443, 444. American State Papers on
:|> >:|> Freedom in Religion. 3rd Revised Edition. Published in 1943 for The
:|> >:|> Religious Liberty Association, Washington, D.C. by the Review and
:|> >:|> Herald. First Edition Compiled by William Addison Blakely, of the
:|> >:|> Chicago Bar. (1890) under the Title American State Papers Bearing on
:|> >:|> Sunday Legislation. pp 140-141)
:|> >:|>
:|> >:|
:|> >:|Continental Congress Thanksgiving Proclamation (1779):
:|> >:|"...too few have been sufficiently awakened to a sense of their guilt,
:|> >:|or warmed our Bosoms with gratitude, or taught to amend their lives
:|> >:|and turn from their sins, that so He might turn from His wrath."
:|>
:|> Duh.
:|>
:|> When was the Constitution framed?
:|> When was the Constitution ratified by the states?
:|> When did the US of A, you know, this nation under that Constitution
:|> actually begin operation?
:|>
:|> Your example above is irrelevant since the answers to the above questions are
:|> all AFTER 1779.
:|>
:|> Better luck next time
:|>
:|
:|DUH! Your post was about the Constitution, and this is from the
:|Constitutional Convention. Pay attention next time.
:|
:|Ken Clifton
:|christiansuperhero.com
More accurately
Christian Idiot and internet troll
Duh and double DUH
Had you bothered to have answered the questions I posed to you above, even
if only silently in your own mind, you would have realized your mistake
and not provided further evidence that you are an idiot who doesn't know
what you are talking about.
Answers to the questions
Q. When was the Constitution framed?
A. 1787
Q. When was the Constitution ratified by the states?
A. In the period of late 1787 - 1788
Q. When did the US of A, you know, this nation under that Constitution
actually begin operation?
A. March 1789
Dude anythign that happned in 1779 is totally irrelevant and was not in any
way shape or form part of the Constitutional Convention which took place
thought the summer of 1787
A mind is a powereful thing to waste.
My condescendence on your wasted mind
(grin)
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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