| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
01 May 2007 07:13:48 AM |
| Object: |
Sep C&S History lessons #6 |
Virginia Declaration of Rights
Message #9273 of 9293
1888
Virginia Declaration of Rights
James Madison strongly opposed the use of the word "toleration" and
succeeded in having this objectionable and un-American word
eliminated. Appleton's Cyclopedia of American Biography (1888 edition)
gives Madison's position on this question as follows:
"Religious liberty was a matter that strongly enlisted his feelings.
When it was proposed that, under the new [Virginia] constitution, `all
men should enjoy the fullest toleration in the exercise of religion,
according to the dictates of conscience,' Madison pointed out that
this provision did not go to the root of the matter. The free exercise
of religion, according to the dictates of conscience, is something
which every man may demand as a right, not something for which he must
ask as a privilege. To grant to the state the power of tolerating is
implicitly to grant to it the power of prohibiting: whereas Madison
would deny to it any jurisdiction whatever in the matter of religion.
The clause in the bill of rights, as finally adopted, at his
suggestion, accordingly declares that `all men are equally entitled to
the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of
conscience.' The incident not only illustrates Madison's liberality of
spirit, but also his precision and forethought in so drawing up an
instrument as to make it mean all that it was intended to mean."-Vol.
4, p. 165.
(SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Appleton's Cyclopedia of American Biography
(1888 edition) -Vol. 4, p. 165. American state Papers (1949) p. 122
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
|
| Title: Re: Sep C&S History lessons #6 |
01 May 2007 09:52:24 AM |
|
|
On May 1, 7:13 am, wrote:
Virginia Declaration of Rights
Message #9273 of 9293
1888
Virginia Declaration of Rights
James Madison strongly opposed the use of the word "toleration" and
succeeded in having this objectionable and un-American word
eliminated. Appleton's Cyclopedia of American Biography (1888 edition)
gives Madison's position on this question as follows:
"Religious liberty was a matter that strongly enlisted his feelings.
When it was proposed that, under the new [Virginia] constitution, `all
men should enjoy the fullest toleration in the exercise of religion,
according to the dictates of conscience,' Madison pointed out that
this provision did not go to the root of the matter. The free exercise
of religion, according to the dictates of conscience, is something
which every man may demand as a right, not something for which he must
ask as a privilege. To grant to the state the power of tolerating is
implicitly to grant to it the power of prohibiting: whereas Madison
would deny to it any jurisdiction whatever in the matter of religion.
The clause in the bill of rights, as finally adopted, at his
suggestion, accordingly declares that `all men are equally entitled to
the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of
conscience.' The incident not only illustrates Madison's liberality of
spirit, but also his precision and forethought in so drawing up an
instrument as to make it mean all that it was intended to mean."-Vol.
4, p. 165.
(SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Appleton's Cyclopedia of American Biography
(1888 edition) -Vol. 4, p. 165. American state Papers (1949) p. 122
Virginia Thanksgiving Proclamation (1910):
"Therefore, I, William Hodges Mann, Governor of Virginia, do fix upon
Thursday, the 24th Day of November as a day of thanksgiving and prayer
to the Giver of all good, and enjoin upon the citizens of this
Commonwealth to assemble in their places of worship,and to the members
of families to meet together in their homes to offer up grateful
prayers and thanksgiving...and make us a people whose God is the
Lord."
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
Romans 3:10-11: As it is written, There is none righteous, no not
one. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh
after God.
Romans 3:23: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is
eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
****************************************************************
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Sep C&S History lessons #6 |
04 May 2007 05:33:49 AM |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|On May 1, 7:13 am, wrote:
:|> Virginia Declaration of Rights
:|> Message #9273 of 9293
:|> 1888
:|>
:|> Virginia Declaration of Rights
:|> James Madison strongly opposed the use of the word "toleration" and
:|> succeeded in having this objectionable and un-American word
:|> eliminated. Appleton's Cyclopedia of American Biography (1888 edition)
:|> gives Madison's position on this question as follows:
:|> "Religious liberty was a matter that strongly enlisted his feelings.
:|> When it was proposed that, under the new [Virginia] constitution, `all
:|> men should enjoy the fullest toleration in the exercise of religion,
:|> according to the dictates of conscience,' Madison pointed out that
:|> this provision did not go to the root of the matter. The free exercise
:|> of religion, according to the dictates of conscience, is something
:|> which every man may demand as a right, not something for which he must
:|> ask as a privilege. To grant to the state the power of tolerating is
:|> implicitly to grant to it the power of prohibiting: whereas Madison
:|> would deny to it any jurisdiction whatever in the matter of religion.
:|> The clause in the bill of rights, as finally adopted, at his
:|> suggestion, accordingly declares that `all men are equally entitled to
:|> the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of
:|> conscience.' The incident not only illustrates Madison's liberality of
:|> spirit, but also his precision and forethought in so drawing up an
:|> instrument as to make it mean all that it was intended to mean."-Vol.
:|> 4, p. 165.
:|> (SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Appleton's Cyclopedia of American Biography
:|> (1888 edition) -Vol. 4, p. 165. American state Papers (1949) p. 122
:|>
:|
:|Virginia Thanksgiving Proclamation (1910):
:|"Therefore, I, William Hodges Mann, Governor of Virginia, do fix upon
:|Thursday, the 24th Day of November as a day of thanksgiving and prayer
:|to the Giver of all good, and enjoin upon the citizens of this
:|Commonwealth to assemble in their places of worship,and to the members
:|of families to meet together in their homes to offer up grateful
:|prayers and thanksgiving...and make us a people whose God is the
:|Lord."
1910, huh. This has exactly what to do with Madison?
All you are proving is that politicians know how to stroke the voters, know
little about history and care even less about such
Thinking people generally already know that so you haven't really shown or
proven anything
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
|
| Title: Re: Sep C&S History lessons #6 |
04 May 2007 09:08:40 AM |
|
|
On May 4, 5:33 am, wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|On May 1, 7:13 am, wrote:
:|> Virginia Declaration of Rights
:|> Message #9273 of 9293
:|> 1888
:|>
:|> Virginia Declaration of Rights
:|> James Madison strongly opposed the use of the word "toleration" and
:|> succeeded in having this objectionable and un-American word
:|> eliminated. Appleton's Cyclopedia of American Biography (1888 edition)
:|> gives Madison's position on this question as follows:
:|> "Religious liberty was a matter that strongly enlisted his feelings.
:|> When it was proposed that, under the new [Virginia] constitution, `all
:|> men should enjoy the fullest toleration in the exercise of religion,
:|> according to the dictates of conscience,' Madison pointed out that
:|> this provision did not go to the root of the matter. The free exercise
:|> of religion, according to the dictates of conscience, is something
:|> which every man may demand as a right, not something for which he must
:|> ask as a privilege. To grant to the state the power of tolerating is
:|> implicitly to grant to it the power of prohibiting: whereas Madison
:|> would deny to it any jurisdiction whatever in the matter of religion.
:|> The clause in the bill of rights, as finally adopted, at his
:|> suggestion, accordingly declares that `all men are equally entitled to
:|> the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of
:|> conscience.' The incident not only illustrates Madison's liberality of
:|> spirit, but also his precision and forethought in so drawing up an
:|> instrument as to make it mean all that it was intended to mean."-Vol.
:|> 4, p. 165.
:|> (SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Appleton's Cyclopedia of American Biography
:|> (1888 edition) -Vol. 4, p. 165. American state Papers (1949) p. 122
:|>
:|
:|Virginia Thanksgiving Proclamation (1910):
:|"Therefore, I, William Hodges Mann, Governor of Virginia, do fix upon
:|Thursday, the 24th Day of November as a day of thanksgiving and prayer
:|to the Giver of all good, and enjoin upon the citizens of this
:|Commonwealth to assemble in their places of worship,and to the members
:|of families to meet together in their homes to offer up grateful
:|prayers and thanksgiving...and make us a people whose God is the
:|Lord."
1910, huh. This has exactly what to do with Madison?
It had to do with Virginia...duh! Try reading next time.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
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