| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mark K. Bilbo" |
| Date: |
02 Nov 2003 06:43:48 PM |
| Object: |
Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
In case you're really, really bored, I thought I'd toss out a little paper
I wrote for my OU course. I'm not terribly happy with it but it seems to
have it's moments...
------------------
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on
society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual
tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; in many instances they have
been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have
they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to
subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient
allies."
-- James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious
Assessments"
I contend there are no honest rebellions against the principle of
separation laid down by the Founders. Nor can even the most cursory
reading of the writings of Madison--principle author of our Constitution
and author of the 1st Amendment--miss that the anti-separation crowd is
quite wrong about the principle.
I also believe there is little question as to the agenda of those who are
attacking the separation principle, that their agenda is barely disguised.
Some are actually quite blatant as to what the real agenda is. Judge Roy
Moore of Alabama commented--quite proudly--to the Los Angeles Times in
regard to the Ten Commandments monument he placed in the court building,
"I'm the highest legal authority in the state, and I wanted it there."
One would normally want a judge--particularly the Chief Justice of your
state's supreme court--to consider the law the "highest legal authority in
the state." Judge Moore prefers personal power.
But Moore is only the tip of this iceberg. The televangelist D. James
Kennedy "has raised money for Moore's defense and even sold a video of
Moore supervising placement of the Ten Commandments sculpture in the
building on the evening of July 31, 2001." (ibid.) Kennedy was allowed to
have people--and a video camera--present when "Roy's Rock" was brought in
after hours, without consultation with any other authority, and without
notice.
Kennedy, the one invite to the placing of "Roy's Rock," now has quite a
collection of materials on the issue. Such as the "Judge Moore Special,"
"Liberty, Tyranny, And The Land," "Ten Commandments Update," and more.
(Coral Ridge Ministries Resources, 2003) All in the tradition of Jesus
Christ of price points from $5 to $19.
According to the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability,
Kennedy's Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church has, over the years 2000 through
2002, an average income of just over $19 million. Coral Ridge Ministries
Media averaged about $38.6 million per year over the same period.
(Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, 2003).
A total of some $57 million per year. Quite a step up from the founder of
the religion, an itinerant Jewish Rabbi with no known wealth or income.
Kennedy, also, writes books to exhort us on how the US should be changed
to conform to his vision. In one such book, The Gates of Hell Shall Not
Prevail, Kennedy is quite open that America needs to be "reclaimed" and
attacks separation of church and state as a "great deception." (Boston,
1999). Kennedy's frequent use of the word "reclaim" is curious at least,
disturbing at worst. At one point, he writes "Our job is to reclaim
America for Christ, whatever the cost."
Such statements, made often by Kennedy, have led to speculation that he
has ties to the Christian Reconstructionist movement, something he denies.
Yet his denials are contradicted by his open association with American
Vision, a Reconstructionist group in Georgia. (Boston, 1999).
The Christian Reconstructionist are an interesting folk. The most common
form of the belief is Theonomic Reconstructionism, a belief system which
advocates imposing the Mosiac law on the US (and other countries). This
would include such changes to the country as if an individual who did not
accept the Mosaic law and had "another god before him" would be guilty of
idolatry which carries a death penalty. Religions other than Christianity
(and Reconstructionist Christianity at that) would be suppressed by law.
Even more liberal, main line Christian denominations would be shut down.
Adultery, blasphemy, and homosexuality would carry death penalties.
(Religious Tolerance, "History").
Some Reconstructionists openly debate whether biblical slavery should be
re-instituted under the Reconstructionist order. David Chilton, a
Reconstructionist, states point blank that "The bible permits slavery."
(Thibodeau, God's Laws, Slavery).
Racism is rampant in the movement as exemplified by Gary North--a
prominent Reconstructionist--having a fit about Native Americans:
"Liberals have adopted the phrase 'native Americans' in recent years. They
never, ever say 'American natives,' since this is only one step away from
'American savages,' which is precisely what most of those
demon-worshipping, Negro slave-holding, frequently land-polluting people
were...." (Thibodeau, Miscellaneous, The Indian).
R.J. Rushdoony, one of the founders of the movement, frequently makes
excuses and rationalizations for slavery in the US with such comments as
"The private ownership of slave labor in the American South has been the
subject of extensive distortion. The Negroes were slaves to their tribal
heads in Africa, or prisoner-slaves of other tribes. The monetary unit in
black Africa was man, the slave. The Negro moved from an especially harsh
slavery, which included cannibalism, to a milder form. Much is said about
the horrors of the slave ships, many of which were very bad, but it is
important to remember that slaves were valuable cargo and hence property
normally handled with consideration." (Thibodeau, Miscellaneous, The
Negro).
Finally, in line with Kennedy's "reclaim America" comments and Moore's
insistence we must "acknowledge god" in our legal system is the comment by
Gary North disclosing, openly, the agenda:
"So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious
liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a
generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no
neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then
they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and
religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies
of God." (Thibodeau, God's Laws, Religious Liberty).
Roy Moore is openly flouting the laws and legal system of the United
States and the State of Alabama and often states he does not "recognize"
the authority of higher courts. He means to have us "acknowledge god" as
the foundation of our legal system. Moore is connected to and supported by
James Kennedy who operates a multi-million dollar, politically active
organization with the agenda to "reclaim America for Christ, whatever the
cost."
Kennedy attempts to deny documented connections with Christian
Reconstructionists even when at least one group itself noted a "wonderful
friendship and working relationship with Dr. Kennedy and others at Coral
Ridge for many years." (Boston, 1999).
The Reconstructionist movement doesn't even attempt to hide they intend to
use the language of freedom of religion only up to the point they gain
power. At which point they will deny "the religious liberty of the enemies
of God."
These men are the kind of people the Founders had in mind when they built
the wall of separation. Many people in the US seem to think the "chinks"
in that wall are benign phenomena; a prayer at a football game perhaps, a
plaque of the Ten Commandments on the wall of a school room, "under god"
in the pledge.
The problem is that when you start breaking down a dam that is holding
back the power hungry, it's hard to keep the small chinks from turning
into fissures which become cracks that turn into crumbling. And rebuilding
a wall in the midst of a flood can very, very difficult.
Americans United. (2002, November 18). Federal Court Strikes Down Ten
Commandments Display At Alabama Supreme Court. Retrieved from:
http://www.au.org/press/pr021118.htm
Coral Ridge Ministries Resources. (2003). Site search for "moore."
http://www.coralridge.org/CRMResCtrsearch.asp?sc=ProductDescription&search=Moore
Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. (2003). Profile of Coral
Ridge Presbyterian Church, member #4475. Retrieved from:
http://www.ecfa.org/msMemberProfile.asp?MemberID=4475
Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. (2003). Profile of Coral
Ridge Ministries Media, member #6504. Retrieved from:
http://www.ecfa.org/msMemberProfile.asp?MemberID=6504
Boston, Rob. (1999, April). "D. James Kennedy: Who Is He And What Does He
Want?" [Electronic version]. Church & State, April 1999 issue. Retrieved
from: http://www.au.org/churchstate/cs4994.htm
Religious Tolerance. (n.d.) Christian Reconstructionism, Dominion
Theology, And Theonomy. Retrieved from:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm
Thibodeau, Paul. (n.d.) Christian Reconstruction: Anthology of Quotations.
Retrieved from: http://www.serve.com/thibodep/cr/words.htmPart V - Journal
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 12:13:59 AM |
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In article <pan.2003.11.03.00.43.47.303211@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
In case you're really, really bored, I thought I'd toss out a little paper
I wrote for my OU course. I'm not terribly happy with it but it seems to
have it's moments...
------------------
<snip>
Great article, Mark! I liked it.
The last paragraph is what coaught my eye.
The problem is that when you start breaking down a dam that is holding
back the power hungry, it's hard to keep the small chinks from turning
into fissures which become cracks that turn into crumbling. And rebuilding
a wall in the midst of a flood can very, very difficult.
I agree. If we permit a few 'cracks', the trickle that flows thorugh
them will soon turn into a such a flood of religiosity into our lives,
that it would take at least another two hundred years to clean up the
mess.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 07:29:39 AM |
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On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:13:59 -0800, johac wrote:
In article <pan.2003.11.03.00.43.47.303211@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
In case you're really, really bored, I thought I'd toss out a little paper
I wrote for my OU course. I'm not terribly happy with it but it seems to
have it's moments...
------------------
<snip>
Great article, Mark! I liked it.
The last paragraph is what coaught my eye.
The problem is that when you start breaking down a dam that is holding
back the power hungry, it's hard to keep the small chinks from turning
into fissures which become cracks that turn into crumbling. And rebuilding
a wall in the midst of a flood can very, very difficult.
I agree. If we permit a few 'cracks', the trickle that flows thorugh
them will soon turn into a such a flood of religiosity into our lives,
that it would take at least another two hundred years to clean up the
mess.
What's funny is that as I wrote the thing, it struck me even more than
previously how the first assaults are small and seemingly insignificant.
But the people driving the assaults may not have any intention of stopping
at the small and trivial...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
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| User: "Bill, The Avender" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 06:09:49 PM |
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Great article, Mark! I enjoyed the references about/quotations from
the "founding fathers" these people so vehemently claim as being on
their side. Excellent touch. :-) I did have one comment, though, on
one of your followup posts:
In alt.atheism on Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:29:39 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
What's funny is that as I wrote the thing, it struck me even more than
previously how the first assaults are small and seemingly insignificant.
But the people driving the assaults may not have any intention of stopping
at the small and trivial...
"May"? "May" not have any intention? Mark, I do believe you're
giving these people _WAY_ too much credit. The more radical among
them will _NOT_ be happy until they have the right to start up The
Burning Times again, and the silent majority will remain as silent as
they always have through such travesties.
--
L8r,
Bill, The Avender
***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***
A pessimist would see a hole in the ozone layer as increased exposure to deadly UV rays.
An optimist would see it as an opportunity to get free, unlimited tanning.
***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***===***
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 06:42:59 PM |
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On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:09:49 +0000, Bill, The Avender wrote:
Great article, Mark! I enjoyed the references about/quotations from
the "founding fathers" these people so vehemently claim as being on
their side. Excellent touch. :-) I did have one comment, though, on
one of your followup posts:
In alt.atheism on Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:29:39 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
What's funny is that as I wrote the thing, it struck me even more than
previously how the first assaults are small and seemingly insignificant.
But the people driving the assaults may not have any intention of stopping
at the small and trivial...
"May"? "May" not have any intention? Mark, I do believe you're
giving these people _WAY_ too much credit. The more radical among
them will _NOT_ be happy until they have the right to start up The
Burning Times again, and the silent majority will remain as silent as
they always have through such travesties.
Well, you see, it's rhetorical kinda thing...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
04 Nov 2003 12:48:27 AM |
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In article <pan.2003.11.03.13.29.39.439936@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:13:59 -0800, johac wrote:
In article <pan.2003.11.03.00.43.47.303211@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
In case you're really, really bored, I thought I'd toss out a little paper
I wrote for my OU course. I'm not terribly happy with it but it seems to
have it's moments...
------------------
<snip>
Great article, Mark! I liked it.
The last paragraph is what coaught my eye.
The problem is that when you start breaking down a dam that is holding
back the power hungry, it's hard to keep the small chinks from turning
into fissures which become cracks that turn into crumbling. And rebuilding
a wall in the midst of a flood can very, very difficult.
I agree. If we permit a few 'cracks', the trickle that flows thorugh
them will soon turn into a such a flood of religiosity into our lives,
that it would take at least another two hundred years to clean up the
mess.
What's funny is that as I wrote the thing, it struck me even more than
previously how the first assaults are small and seemingly insignificant.
But the people driving the assaults may not have any intention of stopping
at the small and trivial...
Of course not. They are now using the 'salami' approach. One little
slice at a time. If they succeed, they will begin to bite off big
chunks of our freedoms. They will not stop until they reach their
final goal - theocracy.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
-Question authority. Now more than ever.-
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 12:06:28 PM |
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On 03 Nov 2003, "Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> screwed up his
face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:pan.2003.11.03.13.29.39.439936@eac.org:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:13:59 -0800, johac wrote:
In article <pan.2003.11.03.00.43.47.303211@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
In case you're really, really bored, I thought I'd toss out a little
paper I wrote for my OU course. I'm not terribly happy with it but
it seems to have it's moments...
------------------
<snip>
Great article, Mark! I liked it.
The last paragraph is what coaught my eye.
The problem is that when you start breaking down a dam that is
holding back the power hungry, it's hard to keep the small chinks
from turning into fissures which become cracks that turn into
crumbling. And rebuilding a wall in the midst of a flood can very,
very difficult.
I agree. If we permit a few 'cracks', the trickle that flows thorugh
them will soon turn into a such a flood of religiosity into our
lives, that it would take at least another two hundred years to clean
up the mess.
What's funny is that as I wrote the thing, it struck me even more than
previously how the first assaults are small and seemingly
insignificant. But the people driving the assaults may not have any
intention of stopping at the small and trivial...
Of course not. This is how a person or group promotes an ideology that,
when fully implemented, is quite obviously wrong -- they present it in
little pieces. Once the trivial parts of it are accepted, it's not so
hard to get people to accept something slightly less trivial. Then you
can move on to the still less trivial, until you're flat-out burning
"idolaters" at the stake, and nobody is objecting.
EAC? What about the ETC (Evil Theist Conspiracy)? We *know* that one
exists, if only in rabid fanatical circles at the moment. The problem
is when the rabid fanatics start convincing the sheep that they're
right.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 06:06:56 PM |
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On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:29:39 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:13:59 -0800, johac wrote:
In article <pan.2003.11.03.00.43.47.303211@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
In case you're really, really bored, I thought I'd toss out a little paper
I wrote for my OU course. I'm not terribly happy with it but it seems to
have it's moments...
------------------
<snip>
Great article, Mark! I liked it.
The last paragraph is what coaught my eye.
The problem is that when you start breaking down a dam that is holding
back the power hungry, it's hard to keep the small chinks from turning
into fissures which become cracks that turn into crumbling. And rebuilding
a wall in the midst of a flood can very, very difficult.
I agree. If we permit a few 'cracks', the trickle that flows thorugh
them will soon turn into a such a flood of religiosity into our lives,
that it would take at least another two hundred years to clean up the
mess.
What's funny is that as I wrote the thing, it struck me even more than
previously how the first assaults are small and seemingly insignificant.
But the people driving the assaults may not have any intention of stopping
at the small and trivial...
OH YES That's exactly their plan. It's the "foot in the door" thing.
They call it "planting seeds". Little baby steps, like "god" in the
pledge, on the money and "god bless you" for a sneeze.
They like the mustard seed because it is so small and grows very
large, an example what they expect to do.
In the pledge and on our money they have their chisels firmly mounted
in that dam, and when a war General says "god elected Bush" even tho
he apologized, that's the hammer hitting those chisels.
Now how could little old ME have any insight to their plans?
I was brought up as a Baptist. I really tried, really applied myself
and did extra credit work, read the bibble, etc, but never got the
magic joy everyone was singing about, in monotones, like drones.
It became clear when I snuck backstage and watched the deacons count
the money.
The takeover HAS started, I tell you. Watch out, folks, a tsunami is
predicted. Anyone understand "exponential"?
drift
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 06:44:56 PM |
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On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:06:56 -0500, drift wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:29:39 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:13:59 -0800, johac wrote:
In article <pan.2003.11.03.00.43.47.303211@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
In case you're really, really bored, I thought I'd toss out a little paper
I wrote for my OU course. I'm not terribly happy with it but it seems to
have it's moments...
------------------
<snip>
Great article, Mark! I liked it.
The last paragraph is what coaught my eye.
The problem is that when you start breaking down a dam that is holding
back the power hungry, it's hard to keep the small chinks from turning
into fissures which become cracks that turn into crumbling. And rebuilding
a wall in the midst of a flood can very, very difficult.
I agree. If we permit a few 'cracks', the trickle that flows thorugh
them will soon turn into a such a flood of religiosity into our lives,
that it would take at least another two hundred years to clean up the
mess.
What's funny is that as I wrote the thing, it struck me even more than
previously how the first assaults are small and seemingly insignificant.
But the people driving the assaults may not have any intention of stopping
at the small and trivial...
OH YES That's exactly their plan. It's the "foot in the door" thing.
They call it "planting seeds". Little baby steps, like "god" in the
pledge, on the money and "god bless you" for a sneeze.
They like the mustard seed because it is so small and grows very
large, an example what they expect to do.
In the pledge and on our money they have their chisels firmly mounted
in that dam, and when a war General says "god elected Bush" even tho
he apologized, that's the hammer hitting those chisels.
Now how could little old ME have any insight to their plans?
I was brought up as a Baptist. I really tried, really applied myself
and did extra credit work, read the bibble, etc, but never got the
magic joy everyone was singing about, in monotones, like drones.
It became clear when I snuck backstage and watched the deacons count
the money.
The takeover HAS started, I tell you. Watch out, folks, a tsunami is
predicted. Anyone understand "exponential"?
The money thing... sheesh... can anybody say "money changers in the temple?"
Kennedy's empire--at least what I can find public record of--runs over $50
million per year.
Boy, he's sure showing that Jeebus fella how things *ought* to be run huh?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 03:06:04 PM |
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On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:29:39 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com>, Message ID:
<pan.2003.11.03.13.29.39.439936@eac.org> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:13:59 -0800, johac wrote:
In article <pan.2003.11.03.00.43.47.303211@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
In case you're really, really bored, I thought I'd toss out a little paper
I wrote for my OU course. I'm not terribly happy with it but it seems to
have it's moments...
------------------
<snip>
Great article, Mark! I liked it.
The last paragraph is what coaught my eye.
The problem is that when you start breaking down a dam that is holding
back the power hungry, it's hard to keep the small chinks from turning
into fissures which become cracks that turn into crumbling. And rebuilding
a wall in the midst of a flood can very, very difficult.
I agree. If we permit a few 'cracks', the trickle that flows thorugh
them will soon turn into a such a flood of religiosity into our lives,
that it would take at least another two hundred years to clean up the
mess.
What's funny is that as I wrote the thing, it struck me even more than
previously how the first assaults are small and seemingly insignificant.
But the people driving the assaults may not have any intention of stopping
at the small and trivial...
They aren't. The 'funny' thing is, according to their superstition, all
of them deserve the death penalty many times over. For greed, pride,
false witness, coveting, breaking the sabbath, and more.
Of course, just as the church has held for centuries the 'word' and
'laws' do not apply to them for they are god.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 06:02:27 AM |
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On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, johac wrote:
I agree. If we permit a few 'cracks', the trickle that flows thorugh
them will soon turn into a such a flood of religiosity into our lives,
that it would take at least another two hundred years to clean up the
mess.
If.
If?
If?
(but I repeat myself)
Those cracks already exist. And they are the reason for the flood of
official religiousity we are experiencing.
In otherwords, IMHO the flood is underway.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
04 Nov 2003 12:42:51 AM |
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In article
<Pine.OSF.3.96.1031103060035.24363B-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>,
Carol Lee Smith <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, johac wrote:
I agree. If we permit a few 'cracks', the trickle that flows thorugh
them will soon turn into a such a flood of religiosity into our lives,
that it would take at least another two hundred years to clean up the
mess.
If.
If?
If?
(but I repeat myself)
Those cracks already exist. And they are the reason for the flood of
official religiousity we are experiencing.
In otherwords, IMHO the flood is underway.
There was a ray of hope today in the Supreme Court's refusal to hear
Moore's appeal. The SCOTUS seems to be our last line of defense these
days. That's why if Bush gets to pack it with fundy justices, there
will be no holding back the tidal wave.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
-Question authority. Now more than ever.-
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 04:16:21 AM |
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On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 18:43:48 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
In case you're really, really bored, I thought I'd toss out a little paper
I wrote for my OU course. I'm not terribly happy with it but it seems to
have it's moments...
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"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on
society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual
tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; in many instances they have
been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have
they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to
subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient
allies."
-- James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious
Assessments"
I contend there are no honest rebellions against the principle of
separation laid down by the Founders. Nor can even the most cursory
reading of the writings of Madison--principle author of our Constitution
and author of the 1st Amendment--miss that the anti-separation crowd is
quite wrong about the principle.
I also believe there is little question as to the agenda of those who are
attacking the separation principle, that their agenda is barely disguised.
Some are actually quite blatant as to what the real agenda is. Judge Roy
Moore of Alabama commented--quite proudly--to the Los Angeles Times in
regard to the Ten Commandments monument he placed in the court building,
"I'm the highest legal authority in the state, and I wanted it there."
One would normally want a judge--particularly the Chief Justice of your
state's supreme court--to consider the law the "highest legal authority in
the state." Judge Moore prefers personal power.
But Moore is only the tip of this iceberg. The televangelist D. James
Kennedy "has raised money for Moore's defense and even sold a video of
Moore supervising placement of the Ten Commandments sculpture in the
building on the evening of July 31, 2001." (ibid.) Kennedy was allowed to
have people--and a video camera--present when "Roy's Rock" was brought in
after hours, without consultation with any other authority, and without
notice.
Kennedy, the one invite to the placing of "Roy's Rock," now has quite a
collection of materials on the issue. Such as the "Judge Moore Special,"
"Liberty, Tyranny, And The Land," "Ten Commandments Update," and more.
(Coral Ridge Ministries Resources, 2003) All in the tradition of Jesus
Christ of price points from $5 to $19.
According to the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability,
Kennedy's Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church has, over the years 2000 through
2002, an average income of just over $19 million. Coral Ridge Ministries
Media averaged about $38.6 million per year over the same period.
(Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, 2003).
A total of some $57 million per year. Quite a step up from the founder of
the religion, an itinerant Jewish Rabbi with no known wealth or income.
Kennedy, also, writes books to exhort us on how the US should be changed
to conform to his vision. In one such book, The Gates of Hell Shall Not
Prevail, Kennedy is quite open that America needs to be "reclaimed" and
attacks separation of church and state as a "great deception." (Boston,
1999). Kennedy's frequent use of the word "reclaim" is curious at least,
disturbing at worst. At one point, he writes "Our job is to reclaim
America for Christ, whatever the cost."
Such statements, made often by Kennedy, have led to speculation that he
has ties to the Christian Reconstructionist movement, something he denies.
Yet his denials are contradicted by his open association with American
Vision, a Reconstructionist group in Georgia. (Boston, 1999).
The Christian Reconstructionist are an interesting folk. The most common
form of the belief is Theonomic Reconstructionism, a belief system which
advocates imposing the Mosiac law on the US (and other countries). This
would include such changes to the country as if an individual who did not
accept the Mosaic law and had "another god before him" would be guilty of
idolatry which carries a death penalty. Religions other than Christianity
(and Reconstructionist Christianity at that) would be suppressed by law.
Even more liberal, main line Christian denominations would be shut down.
Adultery, blasphemy, and homosexuality would carry death penalties.
(Religious Tolerance, "History").
Some Reconstructionists openly debate whether biblical slavery should be
re-instituted under the Reconstructionist order. David Chilton, a
Reconstructionist, states point blank that "The bible permits slavery."
(Thibodeau, God's Laws, Slavery).
Racism is rampant in the movement as exemplified by Gary North--a
prominent Reconstructionist--having a fit about Native Americans:
"Liberals have adopted the phrase 'native Americans' in recent years. They
never, ever say 'American natives,' since this is only one step away from
'American savages,' which is precisely what most of those
demon-worshipping, Negro slave-holding, frequently land-polluting people
were...." (Thibodeau, Miscellaneous, The Indian).
R.J. Rushdoony, one of the founders of the movement, frequently makes
excuses and rationalizations for slavery in the US with such comments as
"The private ownership of slave labor in the American South has been the
subject of extensive distortion. The Negroes were slaves to their tribal
heads in Africa, or prisoner-slaves of other tribes. The monetary unit in
black Africa was man, the slave. The Negro moved from an especially harsh
slavery, which included cannibalism, to a milder form. Much is said about
the horrors of the slave ships, many of which were very bad, but it is
important to remember that slaves were valuable cargo and hence property
normally handled with consideration." (Thibodeau, Miscellaneous, The
Negro).
Finally, in line with Kennedy's "reclaim America" comments and Moore's
insistence we must "acknowledge god" in our legal system is the comment by
Gary North disclosing, openly, the agenda:
"So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious
liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a
generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no
neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then
they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and
religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies
of God." (Thibodeau, God's Laws, Religious Liberty).
Roy Moore is openly flouting the laws and legal system of the United
States and the State of Alabama and often states he does not "recognize"
the authority of higher courts. He means to have us "acknowledge god" as
the foundation of our legal system. Moore is connected to and supported by
James Kennedy who operates a multi-million dollar, politically active
organization with the agenda to "reclaim America for Christ, whatever the
cost."
Kennedy attempts to deny documented connections with Christian
Reconstructionists even when at least one group itself noted a "wonderful
friendship and working relationship with Dr. Kennedy and others at Coral
Ridge for many years." (Boston, 1999).
The Reconstructionist movement doesn't even attempt to hide they intend to
use the language of freedom of religion only up to the point they gain
power. At which point they will deny "the religious liberty of the enemies
of God."
These men are the kind of people the Founders had in mind when they built
the wall of separation. Many people in the US seem to think the "chinks"
in that wall are benign phenomena; a prayer at a football game perhaps, a
plaque of the Ten Commandments on the wall of a school room, "under god"
in the pledge.
The problem is that when you start breaking down a dam that is holding
back the power hungry, it's hard to keep the small chinks from turning
into fissures which become cracks that turn into crumbling. And rebuilding
a wall in the midst of a flood can very, very difficult.
Americans United. (2002, November 18). Federal Court Strikes Down Ten
Commandments Display At Alabama Supreme Court. Retrieved from:
http://www.au.org/press/pr021118.htm
Coral Ridge Ministries Resources. (2003). Site search for "moore."
http://www.coralridge.org/CRMResCtrsearch.asp?sc=ProductDescription&search=Moore
Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. (2003). Profile of Coral
Ridge Presbyterian Church, member #4475. Retrieved from:
http://www.ecfa.org/msMemberProfile.asp?MemberID=4475
Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. (2003). Profile of Coral
Ridge Ministries Media, member #6504. Retrieved from:
http://www.ecfa.org/msMemberProfile.asp?MemberID=6504
Boston, Rob. (1999, April). "D. James Kennedy: Who Is He And What Does He
Want?" [Electronic version]. Church & State, April 1999 issue. Retrieved
from: http://www.au.org/churchstate/cs4994.htm
Religious Tolerance. (n.d.) Christian Reconstructionism, Dominion
Theology, And Theonomy. Retrieved from:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm
Thibodeau, Paul. (n.d.) Christian Reconstruction: Anthology of Quotations.
Retrieved from: http://www.serve.com/thibodep/cr/words.htmPart V - Journal
Excellent, Mark. I hope Moore's connections with the Christian
Reconstructionists are brought out at his trial.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 07:26:50 AM |
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On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:16:21 +0000, Michelle Malkin wrote:
Excellent, Mark. I hope Moore's connections with the Christian
Reconstructionists are brought out at his trial.
Thanks.
I rather doubt that'll come out at trial though. I don't know it's
relevant to the issue to hand.
I *do wish it would come out in the media more. The public should be
asking what "acknowledge god" *means. It sounds benign enough. But Moore's
actions aren't the least bit benign...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 09:29:09 AM |
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Excellent, Mark. I hope Moore's connections with the Christian
Reconstructionists are brought out at his trial.
Thanks.
I rather doubt that'll come out at trial though. I don't know it's
relevant to the issue to hand.
Support by an organization which advocates the violent overthrow of the US
governmental system? Seems relevant to me. Perhaps we can add terrorism charges
to Moore's crimes as well. Receiving financial support would be in violation of
Section 810(c) of the Patriot Act and the donors can get 15 years in prison,
life if there is a death involved.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 10:22:04 AM |
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On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:29:09 +0000, Lord Calvert wrote:
Excellent, Mark. I hope Moore's connections with the Christian
Reconstructionists are brought out at his trial.
Thanks.
I rather doubt that'll come out at trial though. I don't know it's
relevant to the issue to hand.
Support by an organization which advocates the violent overthrow of the US
governmental system? Seems relevant to me. Perhaps we can add terrorism charges
to Moore's crimes as well. Receiving financial support would be in violation of
Section 810(c) of the Patriot Act and the donors can get 15 years in prison,
life if there is a death involved.
Most of the Reconstructionist folk we're talking about don't advocate
violent overthrow. And holding (even radical) political opinions isn't
inherently wrong or illegal (well, not yet, AG Asswipe is working on it).
Demagoguery isn't even illegal. And I'm not sure how you could make it
illegal. It's a slippery subject.
Moore's *actions are sufficient to whack him regardless of his
motivations. But the *public should be asking who this "god" is he wants
acknowledged and whether he sees this "god" in his mirror...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: Separation: From Roy's Rock to Reconstructionism |
03 Nov 2003 02:11:13 PM |
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Most of the Reconstructionist folk we're talking about don't advocate
violent overthrow. And holding (even radical) political opinions isn't
inherently wrong or illegal (well, not yet, AG Asswipe is working on it).
Moore took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States
and the State of Alabama. He is getting significant support from organizations
whose explicit purpose is the overthrow and destruction of that constitution.
If he (or any other judge in the US) does not publicly reject Chalcedon's and
the NRA's support, I think that would be grounds for removal on that basis
alone.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
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