| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"dpr" |
| Date: |
28 Sep 2003 06:17:10 PM |
| Object: |
Separation of atheism and state |
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
Amendment: Separation of atheism and state
Bob Just
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
religion and morality are indispensable supports. . . . In vain would that
man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great
pillars of human happiness."
- George Washington's farewell address
Imagine that it was not the 9th Circuit, but the United States Supreme Court
that made the "under God" decision. Imagine that instead of two nervous
circuit judges, it was five brazen Supreme Court Justices declaring the
Pledge unconstitutional in some nightmare future years from now - five
secular devotees who'd been patiently waiting for a chance to save
government from the "ancient superstitions" of its people. And soon more
secular decisions come down from the high court: "In God We Trust" is
rejected as the national motto. Prayers are forbidden at inaugural
ceremonies. And on and on.
No second chance. No appeal. The Supreme Court has spoken, and as far as
government is concerned, "God is dead." Yes, you can worship at home or in
church, says the court, but don't you dare act on your beliefs in the public
square. Finally, religious Americans awaken to see the dangers of
secularism, but nothing can be done. With a powerful secular media
cheerleading and a huge secular lobby pouring money into Washington, there's
no real chance to correct the tyrannous decisions with an amendment.
So now America becomes officially a nation under "nothing" - government no
longer recognizes any authority higher than its own democratic opinions, a
true "dictatorship of the people," as Lenin called it. Atheism is thus able
to rise to a legal dominance never seen before in America, never even
imagined. After all, atheism and secularism are twins - one doesn't believe
in God, and the other can't. The end result is the same: Believers are made
outsiders.
Sound farfetched? It isn't really. An Al Gore victory easily could have
given us a high court that looked like Judge Stephen Reinhardt, the Democrat
appointee who shared the "under God" decision with Judge Goodwin. The truth
is that even now we are only one or two secular Supreme Court Justices away
from a solid ACLU court, and all that it implies - virulent hostility to
America's religious traditions.
One amendment, under God
While so many in the media have been doing their best to make light of the
9th Circuit decision on the Pledge of Allegiance, others recognize the very
real dangers involved in that decision. By most accounts, the ruling is
likely to be overturned, but that doesn't change the sobering message that
was sent to all Americans.
As currently interpreted, our Constitution is choking our religious
traditions out of existence, and there seems to be no stopping it as the
"under God" Pledge decision indicates. Even with a supposedly conservative
Supreme Court, victories against the secular encroachments of government are
too rare, and when they do come, they are attacked on all sides by groups
like the ACLU. It is often a battle for inches.
Recently, a number of congressmen called for a constitutional amendment to
preserve "under God" in the Pledge, but we need more than that. We need
something more historically based, something capable of inspiring average
Americans by eliminating the relativist interpretations of the First
Amendment, something that would help our federal government reclaim its lost
identity.
With so many secular forces in society hostile to the faiths of our fathers,
it's time to codify the "self-evident" truths of the Declaration of
Independence by putting them in the Constitution.
Let us declare ourselves to history by re-establishing the simple, but
essential, political principle that we are uniquely created beings, precious
before God, and that our rights come from God and not from government. There
can be no neutrality in this where government is concerned. We either have
souls or we do not. Our nation is either under God, or it is not.
Of course, no one wants a theocracy, something repugnant certainly to
Christian Americans who are, after all, in the vast majority. However,
decades of overreaching by the high court indicate that secularism is not
the answer either. There must be a third choice, because as long as
"disbelief" is considered to be on an equal footing with "belief," not only
will faith find itself unwelcome in our halls of power, it will eventually
be removed from the body politic like a threatening tumor. This could happen
if we let it.
The case isn't closed
Consider the current situation. Michael Newdow, the atheist who sued to get
God out of the Pledge, says that right now there are four Justices he
believes are favorable to his view: David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsberg,
Stephen Breyer and John Paul Stevens. Newdow also lists Justice Anthony
Kennedy as a possible fifth vote, due to a 1989 church-state dissent in
which Kennedy pointed out that the "under God" Pledge is problematic for
atheists.
Although unlikely, it's also fair to consider Justice O'Connor as a possible
6th vote due to her stated position that citizens should not be made to feel
like "outsiders" by the state when it comes to religion. Let's face it, "one
nation under God" leaves atheists out, and it's no coincidence that Newdow
made this very point a significant part of his argument to the 9th Circuit.
Sadly, radical atheists like Newdow will always feel like outsiders in a
nation under God, and they will continue all efforts to undermine our
religious traditions. That's the reality of it. Newdow doesn't believe his
little daughter has a soul, or that her rights come from anywhere but
government. These beliefs are in direct conflict with the views of most
Americans. And yet, atheist views are more common than any of us would like
to think within America's judicial and political circles, the very people
who will define the future Supreme Court.
So don't be misled by my "shocked" fellow Democrats, and all the pundit
proclamations that the "under God" decision will go nowhere. For now, it may
not, but there's nothing "nuts" about the judicial thinking of the 9th
Circuit decision, and most liberal politicians know it, despite their
election-year religiosity.
It's true that many constitutional experts, including quintessential liberal
Lawrence Tribe, say it's likely the Supreme Court will reverse the 9th
Circuit if the case gets that far. However, whether the "under God" decision
goes anywhere now is not the point. There are many atheist, secular and
anti-traditional organizations in Washington that are determined to win this
fight eventually - and by current constitutional standards they have a case.
That's the problem.
"Nobody can say that the 9th Circuit was illogical," said Washington Post
columnist E. J. Dionne who, despite reservations, considered the decision
"principled." He is not alone among pundits and experts to think that. Yale
law professor Jack Blakin told Time magazine that the opinion was
"technically correct," and writing in Newsweek, famed legal analyst Stuart
Taylor called it "perfectly plausible."
Although Taylor felt the decision was almost certain to be reversed, he made
the larger point about the legal mess we are in. "As much as the ruling
overreached, the California court was clearly taking its cues from a higher
authority - the U.S. Supreme Court."
An ethical foundation built on sand
So, clearly the 9th Circuit decision did not occur in a vacuum. It followed
a well-established pattern of thinking that atheism is on an equal footing
with America's Judeo-Christian traditions. It also revealed another
established belief, that monotheism itself - the pumping heart of Western
Culture - is just another form of worship, essentially no different, as far
as the government is concerned, than, say, worshiping ancient Greek gods
like Zeus and Hera (pagan deities who were always squabbling over one thing
or another).
Does this sound like an exaggeration? Then consider the now-famous words of
Judge Goodwin in June's 9th Circuit majority opinion:
In the context of the Pledge, the statement that the United States is a
nation, "under God" is an endorsement of religion. It is a profession of a
religious belief, namely a belief in monotheism. . . . A profession that we
are a nation "under God" is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to
a profession that we are a nation "under Jesus," a nation "under Vishnu," a
nation "under Zeus," or a nation "under no god," because none of these
professions can be neutral with respect to religion.
This "neutrality" renders government completely dysfunctional. The bottom
line? If you are someone who thinks thunder happens "when the gods are
angry," or if you burn incense to a rock you found on the beach, or if you
believe in nothing at all, you've got as much potential credibility with
this new government as those who believe the biblical worldview that reveals
God as "love," that speaks of the struggle between good and evil, and
promises hope of true freedom and eternal peace for all mankind.
Increasingly, judges can view all these approaches to religion as
essentially equal - which constitutionally means government can have little
or no official understanding of life based on anything but atheist science,
whether physical, biological, social or psychological. And as we've seen
countless times, not only do these scientists change their minds regularly,
their conclusions are often based on faulty or prejudiced interpretation of
data. Not a very reliable source of wisdom.
This would be less of a problem if government were not involved in our lives
in almost every possible way, from decisions on when a cause is worth the
shedding of American blood to decisions related to family and the social
order. What are the standards that inform these decisions? Americans have a
right to ask this question, and demand a clear answer.
The one-God problem
Unfortunately, a government that's neutral to the great moral and
philosophical questions of the ages cannot give us intelligent or even
cogent answers to life's urgent questions. It was not always so. Consider
what a 1951 U.S. Naval Officers' training manual says about the need for
good character in military leadership (once assumed as essential for public
office too):
By character is meant integrity, courage, morality, humility and unswerving
determination. Character is a spiritual force. It is a reflection of a man's
grip upon himself, the degree to which he is able to dominate the baser
instincts that beset us all.
This is the kind of wisdom that created a truly great society. But current
court vogue (not to mention some future ACLU court) would look askance at
such presumptions. Atheists would object to the idea of a "spiritual force."
And the very expression "base instincts" suggests a lack of tolerance. Who
gets to decide what base instincts are? Whose morality are we talking about?
A recent Zogby poll reports that three-quarters of American college
professors still teach a post-modern worldview that accepts no universal
right or wrong. So if you cook the books at Enron, it may or may not be
wrong. Only one-fourth of all professors teach that "there are clear and
uniform standards of right and wrong by which everyone should be judged."
Guess which professors are more likely to get secular government grants.
A government that lays claim to neutrality on religious - and thus on
traditional moral - issues is a government that inevitably lacks dependable
standards. This kind of government will be very uncomfortable with any
religion that claims to have clarity on those issues - and that means
monotheism. Thus "neutrality" becomes hostility. George Washington's views
would not be welcome. However, the accommodating vagueness of polytheism and
pantheism doesn't present the same problem to secular government and is
therefore less threatening.
Remember, monotheism has One Creator, God, and thus one truth, and one path
along which people can be guided if they are willing. That's why monotheism
was such a social revolution. There's clarity on core principles - God knows
what He thinks. And there are no squabbling divine personalities because God
knows who He is. Monotheism is by its very nature a "theory of everything,"
a unified field of thinking which allows for great social focus in building
and maintaining civilization. So, when the judicial system tries to rise
above this and treat all religions equally, it will necessarily come face to
face with monotheism.
The other great problem is the court's constitutional respect for atheism,
which is, after all, the most vague of belief systems. But more than that,
atheism also assumes an air of secular neutrality because it believes in
nothing at all. This gives it a dangerous tactical advantage over monotheism
in dealing with secular government. If nothing is done about this,
government will continue to favor atheist organizations within society, and
ultimately to favor religions with an indifferent worldview. Monotheism,
with its sureness of vision and purpose, will become increasingly alien to
secular government, which looks for compromise from its religious junior
partners.
But God doesn't compromise, and He makes a very poor junior partner.
Consequently, under the current interpretation of the Establishment Clause,
monotheism will become an outcast in its own society.
Secular hostility
There is so little understanding of the anti-God bias involved in
government's secular "neutrality" that it is not only quietly accepted by
many judges, and even some justices, it is loudly cheered on by the dominant
media culture. Of course, often this cheering is not rooted in ignorance,
but based on downright contempt.
"We should all applaud the brave decision of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of
Appeals," said the editorial page of the Philadelphia Daily News. "Let's be
honest about this issue - finally - after decades of mouth-frothing. The
word God doesn't belong in the Pledge, on our money, in anything with the
government's seal of approval."
Indeed, let's be honest. The New York Times called the 9th Circuit decision
a "well meaning ruling," and reminded its readers that "under God" became
part of the pledge "at the height of anti-communist fervor" in 1954. But
then the editorial went on to express its deeper sentiments. When it comes
to understanding the secular culture's contempt for religion, this comment
says it all:
The practical impact of the ruling is inviting a political backlash for a
matter that does not rise to a constitutional violation. We wish the words
had not been added back in 1954. But just the way removing a well-lodged
foreign body from an organism may sometimes be more damaging than letting it
stay put, removing those words would cause more harm than leaving them in.
Yes, nothing like trying to remove a "foreign body" and causing even greater
problems in terms of "political backlash." Better to wait until you have a
6-3 or even a 7-2 majority so you can cut God out cleanly and without much
opposition. Better wait until the public is more ready to accept full
secularism. In other words, now is not the time - but the time will come.
The secular left must be careful that religious Americans don't catch on to
the left's true contempt for religion, especially not in a crucial election
year. The left knows that if conservative America gets control of the
Senate, President Bush will get his judicial nominees approved and that
could mean a return to our traditional moral and political roots guided by
the Founders' original intent. Thus, the struggle in this country! And
remember, it is not a partisan struggle. One of the two 9th Circuit liberals
was a Republican. There are secularists in all parties.
The sleeping giant
Most religious Americans do not grasp that the culture war is really about
religion. Howard Kurtz, media critic for the Washington Post, made a
revealing observation right after two high-profile First Amendment decisions
on the "under God" Pledge and religious school choice. "The culture wars,
after a brief time-out for such mundane matters as fighting terrorism, are
back," said Kurtz. He gets it.
America's cultural struggle may take many forms, but at its heart, it's
about God, who He is and what He expects from His people. The atheist and
pagan forces in American society also know this, and that's why even
"ceremonial deism" makes them nervous. God needs to be eliminated, but
they've got to go slowly to avoid waking up the sleeping giant. According to
an ABC poll, 89 percent of the American public is in favor of keeping God in
the Pledge of Allegiance. That's a problem for radical secularists.
So what's going on now - and has been for decades - is a kind of seduction.
Police officers have a useful expression for it when it comes to the
corruption of innocence. They call it "progressive involvement." In child
molestation, for example, each step involves the child a bit more, until the
victim submits to sexual activity he or she would have run from earlier.
That's how progressive involvement works, and secularists have been using it
for years, one step at a time. Slowly our values are changed. Slowly our
laws are changed. Slowly God is squeezed out - until it is too late to turn
back.
However, now the embarrassing 9th Circuit has gone too far, too fast, and
the secular left is nervous that the people are catching on to the motives
behind "judicial progress." All eyes are on Judeo-Christian Americans. The
sleeping giant may yet awaken.
Protecting our future
Because of the outrage over the appellate court's rejection of the "under
God" Pledge, people might be willing to stem the tide of secularism. Most
Americans are tired of court rulings like those that forbid prayer at high
school football games and graduations. They just don't know what to do about
it, especially since the supposed "wall of separation" has become so much a
part of our social, political and media culture. However, after years of
being intimidated by groups like the ACLU (which agreed with the Pledge
decision, of course), the people might be ready to de-fang the beast.
Even William Rehnquist, chief justice of the Supreme Court, thinks the 1947
"separation" decision was a disaster. "The metaphor of a 'wall of
separation' is bad history and worse law," said Rehnquist. "It has made a
positive chaos out of court rulings. It should be frankly and explicitly
abandoned."
But the question is how? We know for sure that radical secularists won't
cooperate. Faith terrifies them. So how do we protect American principles
from being dismantled one at a time or in bunches? How can we guarantee our
children and grandchildren that they will inherit a government that is
officially allowed to recognize they have a soul? How can we prevent them
from being ruled over by a secular government that thinks of them as mere
"human resources" and that rejects any firm standard of truth or justice?
And how do we do all that without undermining our First Amendment freedoms?
It can't be through this continual high court battle of inches, where
nominees to the Supreme Court are forced to play a cat-and-mouse game to
hide their religious views from a supposedly religious Senate, where
hearings have become a quietly vicious arena in which people are destroyed
by lies and innuendo (the atheist left excels at playing that game). Nor can
we tolerate anymore this atheist hypocrisy of using every attacking question
to "expose" a conservative judicial nominee except the one question they
really want to ask: "Are you a believer?"
Most of us want a return to the "political prosperity" George Washington
talked about in his farewell address, but again the question is how? How do
we stop this national breakdown of character and conscience? How do we cut
the Gordian knot that binds any sensible discussion of "religion and
morality" in public policy? How do we break through to common sense? There
is an answer.
"America came into this world with a message for all mankind," said
President Bush on Independence Day. "That all are created equal and all are
meant to be free."
The third choice
In 1947, a Supreme Court dominated by secularists took those words "wall of
separation" from an incidental letter Thomas Jefferson wrote during his
presidency and used them to build the basis of the Separation of Church and
State decision. Jefferson, by the way, had no part in writing the
Constitution. Without precedent, the high court decided that government
could be separate from the one thing our founders thought was essential to
life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - faith in the reality of God.
Those justices believed something truly disastrous - that government can be
neutral to truth. They made one of the worst and most destructive judicial
decisions in history based on their own personal, secular assumptions about
life, and as a result, America is losing her identity. Our freedoms are at
risk. As President Bush said recently, "There is no capitalism without
conscience."
Well, there is no conscience without God. So let the following deeply held
words of Thomas Jefferson now come to the rescue in the 21st century as a
constitutional amendment:
"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights . .
.."
These few words from the Declaration of Independence have rung true to
Americans throughout our history. They are the foundation of our freedom. We
have lived for them and died for them - and so have others, for they have
inspired freedom-fighters around the world. But, as important as they are,
they are not law. So let us now give them constitutional permanence.
How wonderful it would be to know that these self-evident truths are not
just ceremonial sentiments, but are actually part of our legal relationship
with government - part of our social contract.
And while we are considering this course of action, let us consider also
these other words of Thomas Jefferson:
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be
secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are a gift of
God?"
Words to think about. And words to act on.
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
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| User: "Larry Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
29 Sep 2003 06:57:24 PM |
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"dpr" <%%%**&&@dems.com> wrote in message
news:vneqj942pr6rec@corp.supernews.com...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
Amendment: Separation of atheism and state
Bob Just
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
religion and morality are indispensable supports. . . . In vain would that
man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these
great
pillars of human happiness."
- George Washington's farewell address
Imagine that it was not the 9th Circuit, but the United States Supreme
Court
that made the "under God" decision. Imagine that instead of two nervous
circuit judges, it was five brazen Supreme Court Justices declaring the
Pledge unconstitutional in some nightmare future years from now - five
secular devotees who'd been patiently waiting for a chance to save
government from the "ancient superstitions" of its people. And soon more
secular decisions come down from the high court: "In God We Trust" is
rejected as the national motto. Prayers are forbidden at inaugural
ceremonies. And on and on.
No second chance. No appeal. The Supreme Court has spoken, and as far as
government is concerned, "God is dead." Yes, you can worship at home or in
church, says the court, but don't you dare act on your beliefs in the
public
square.
People do and will and the 1st amendment gives them that right. But Unk
Sam doesn't have the right to push religion or support it. Unk Sam is
required to be neutral. See the judicial gloss on the 1st for details, if
you can read.
Finally, religious Americans awaken to see the dangers of
secularism, but nothing can be done. With a powerful secular media
cheerleading and a huge secular lobby pouring money into Washington,
there's
no real chance to correct the tyrannous
Um, maybe you CAN'T read, or you would say "tyrannical."
decisions with an amendment.
So now America becomes officially a nation under "nothing" - government no
longer recognizes any authority higher than its own democratic opinions, a
true "dictatorship of the people," as Lenin called it. Atheism is thus
able
[Snip the rest of this horseshit] Yes, Just, Roger is correct. You ARE
an idiot.
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
30 Sep 2003 08:16:31 AM |
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"dpr" <%%%**&&@dems.com> wrote in message news:<vneqj942pr6rec@corp.supernews.com>...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
Amendment: Separation of atheism and state
Bob Just
[snip]
Imagine that it was not the 9th Circuit, but the United States Supreme Court
that made the "under God" decision. Imagine that instead of two nervous
circuit judges, it was five brazen Supreme Court Justices declaring the
Pledge unconstitutional
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people Living life in peace...
jwk
BAAWA
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
30 Sep 2003 09:46:28 AM |
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On 30 Sep 2003, jwk wrote:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one.
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one.
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
28 Sep 2003 11:16:54 PM |
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Dana "Strawman" Raffaniello, second in straw next to Bob Just, posted a
Bob Just missive which included this zinger:
"So, when the judicial system tries to rise above this and treat all
religions equally, it will necessarily come face to face with monotheism."
Apparently Dana Strawman Raffaniello and Bob Just are of the opinion that
their particular religion of choice (which Dana claims is certainly not
Christianity) is superior to any other religion, or all other religions.
And they appear to endorse governmental support of this superiority.
This is a perfect example of how dangerous it is not to have government
neutrality in matters of religion.
Is there to be a new Crusade? A new Inquisition?
Oh the humanity!!
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
28 Sep 2003 11:19:26 PM |
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Here's the url for the Bob Just anti-pluralism tirade:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
There is a link at the main Bob Just web site for sending him a message.
But I am sure it would directly into his circular file if it is not of the
AMEN, PRAISE THE LORD type of message.
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Carol Lee Smith wrote:
Dana "Strawman" Raffaniello, second in straw next to Bob Just, posted a
Bob Just missive which included this zinger:
"So, when the judicial system tries to rise above this and treat all
religions equally, it will necessarily come face to face with monotheism."
Apparently Dana Strawman Raffaniello and Bob Just are of the opinion that
their particular religion of choice (which Dana claims is certainly not
Christianity) is superior to any other religion, or all other religions.
And they appear to endorse governmental support of this superiority.
This is a perfect example of how dangerous it is not to have government
neutrality in matters of religion.
Is there to be a new Crusade? A new Inquisition?
Oh the humanity!!
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
29 Sep 2003 03:19:59 AM |
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Fucking crybabies.
From http://bobjust.com/bio/
Award-winning filmmaker, activist, and journalist, Bob Just has also served
as Executive Vice President of Talk Radio Network. A veteran national talk
show host, Bob is currently Editor-at-Large for Whistleblowers magazine, and
a columnist for WorldNetDaily. His television appearances include, ABC’s
“Politically Incorrect” and Fox News “Hannity & Colmes.”
Born and raised in New York City, Bob began his career teaching English and
Drama. Bob then studied at New York University Film School and graduated
with a Masters of Fine Arts. In addition to his numerous film awards, which
included the Washington, D.C. based CINE/UFA Wilbert H. Pearson Memorial
Award for “improving world understanding,” Bob was the recipient of a
coveted American Film Institute/Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences
Directing Internship at Universal Studios. A producer at the AFI Directing
Workshop for Women, Mr. Just served two years as a judge for the AFI
Independent Filmmaker Grant. During that time he was also a speechwriter and
an educational film writer for Walt Disney Educational Media and the United
States Air Force, as well as a Sundance screenplay finalist.
On the political front, during his years in Los Angeles, Bob also served on
the board of directors of LA based National Writers Network. As founder and
director of NWN’s Teach Freedom Project, Bob received praise from then
Secretary of Education William Bennett for raising “public awareness to
support the cause of liberty.” Bob also had the honor of presenting the
first annual Teach Freedom Award to then Garfield High School math teacher
Jaime Escalante, and later to President Ronald Reagan in honor of his
farewell warning to the American people. President Reagan later passed the
“Teach Freedom” torch to former leftist, David Horowitz.
Bob has received bipartisan letters of support for the Teach Freedom Award
from many dignitaries, including personal congratulations from then Vice
President George Bush for “all you have done for American education.”
Bob is also founder and president of a community-policing group in Oregon.
For over eight years, C-FAC has organized continual eyes-and-ears-only
patrols, using unmarked cars and cell phones to report crime. A group with
hundreds of members, C-FAC works directly with city, county, and state law
enforcement and has been asked by local law enforcement to help with
homeland security. C-FAC, called “community policing at its finest,” is a
strictly non-political 501c3 organization and has received wide support from
the community, including a congressional letter of support and a special
mayoral proclamation in honor of its years of accomplishment. Lt. Col. Tony
Kern, former military history professor at the U.S. Air Force Academy, has
called the C-FAC method an “almost perfect” system for homeland defense. Bob
’s varied background, experience, and unique perspective make him an
excellent guest on any show.
"dpr" <%%%**&&@dems.com> wrote in message
news:vneqj942pr6rec@corp.supernews.com...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
Amendment: Separation of atheism and state
Bob Just
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| User: "Larry Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
29 Sep 2003 08:02:09 AM |
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"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PWRdb.31$fi3.6771851@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Fucking crybabies.
From http://bobgoofy.com/bio/
Award-winning filmmaker, activist, and journalist, Bob Just has also
served
as Executive Vice President of Talk Radio Network. A veteran national talk
show host, Bob is currently Editor-at-Large for Whistleblowers magazine,
and
a columnist for WorldNetDaily.
The bio of this right-wing freak is commentary on con law?
.
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
29 Sep 2003 01:26:01 PM |
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"Larry Smith" <dbrigman3@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vngbahm4ftfoed@corp.supernews.com...
"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PWRdb.31$fi3.6771851@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Fucking crybabies.
From http://bobgoofy.com/bio/
Award-winning filmmaker, activist, and journalist, Bob Just has also
served
as Executive Vice President of Talk Radio Network. A veteran national
talk
show host, Bob is currently Editor-at-Large for Whistleblowers magazine,
and
a columnist for WorldNetDaily.
The bio of this right-wing freak is commentary on con law?
It's commentary on the right-wing freak who wrote the article I was
commenting on.
.
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| User: "Larry Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
29 Sep 2003 06:49:40 PM |
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"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZO_db.10352$gL7.3283@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
"Larry Smith" <dbrigman3@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vngbahm4ftfoed@corp.supernews.com...
"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PWRdb.31$fi3.6771851@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Fucking crybabies.
From http://bobgoofy.com/bio/
Award-winning filmmaker, activist, and journalist, Bob Just has also
served
as Executive Vice President of Talk Radio Network. A veteran national
talk
show host, Bob is currently Editor-at-Large for Whistleblowers
magazine,
and
a columnist for WorldNetDaily.
The bio of this right-wing freak is commentary on con law?
It's commentary on the right-wing freak who wrote the article I was
commenting on.
Ahem. Thanks. Note to self: Do try to keep up.
.
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
29 Sep 2003 11:36:21 PM |
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"Larry Smith" <dbrigman3@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vnhh8l9re4p295@corp.supernews.com...
"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZO_db.10352$gL7.3283@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
"Larry Smith" <dbrigman3@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vngbahm4ftfoed@corp.supernews.com...
"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PWRdb.31$fi3.6771851@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Fucking crybabies.
From http://bobgoofy.com/bio/
Award-winning filmmaker, activist, and journalist, Bob Just has also
served
as Executive Vice President of Talk Radio Network. A veteran
national
talk
show host, Bob is currently Editor-at-Large for Whistleblowers
magazine,
and
a columnist for WorldNetDaily.
The bio of this right-wing freak is commentary on con law?
It's commentary on the right-wing freak who wrote the article I was
commenting on.
Ahem. Thanks. Note to self: Do try to keep up.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step to a cure.
.
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| User: "*Nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
28 Sep 2003 06:12:45 PM |
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In article <vneqj942pr6rec@corp.supernews.com>,
"dpr" <%%%**&&@dems.com> wrote:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
Amendment: Separation of atheism and state
Bob Just
World Net Daily, eh? They're not eve good enough to be called a rag, you
know.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
28 Sep 2003 11:52:10 PM |
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In article
<nemo0037-F86675.19124328092003@news04.east.earthlink.net>,
*Nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.NOSPMPLS.com> wrote:
In article <vneqj942pr6rec@corp.supernews.com>,
"dpr" <%%%**&&@dems.com> wrote:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
Amendment: Separation of atheism and state
Bob Just
World Net Daily, eh? They're not eve good enough to be called a rag, you
know.
The Wing Nut Daily? Why they're almost as credible as Fox News.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
29 Sep 2003 12:58:22 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:52:10 -0700, johac wrote:
In article
<nemo0037-F86675.19124328092003@news04.east.earthlink.net>,
*Nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.NOSPMPLS.com> wrote:
In article <vneqj942pr6rec@corp.supernews.com>,
"dpr" <%%%**&&@dems.com> wrote:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
Amendment: Separation of atheism and state
Bob Just
World Net Daily, eh? They're not eve good enough to be called a rag, you
know.
The Wing Nut Daily? Why they're almost as credible as Fox News.
Less. Much less.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
From alt.atheism only
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
28 Sep 2003 10:52:36 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:12:45 GMT, *Nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.NOSPMPLS.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
World Net Daily, eh? They're not eve good enough to be called a rag, you
know.
"Dana" and "know"? Sorry, Nemo, but you're not eligible.
--
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my
contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him, the
spinal cord would fully suffice."
- Albert Einstein
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Sean C" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
29 Sep 2003 12:04:14 PM |
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In article <vneqj942pr6rec@corp.supernews.com>, dpr <%%%**&&@dems.com>
wrote:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
Amendment: Separation of atheism and state
Bob Just
<snip block text>
Ever heard of paragraphs, dim-bulb?
Sean C
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of atheism and state |
29 Sep 2003 04:57:21 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:17:10 -0800, "dpr" <%%%**&&@dems.com> wrote:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28288
Amendment: Separation of atheism and state
Bob Just
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
religion and morality are indispensable supports. . . . In vain would that
man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great
pillars of human happiness."
- George Washington's farewell address
Imagine that it was not the 9th Circuit, but the United States Supreme Court
that made the "under God" decision. Imagine that instead of two nervous
circuit judges, it was five brazen Supreme Court Justices declaring the
Pledge unconstitutional in some nightmare future years from now - five
secular devotees who'd been patiently waiting for a chance to save
government from the "ancient superstitions" of its people. And soon more
secular decisions come down from the high court: "In God We Trust" is
rejected as the national motto. Prayers are forbidden at inaugural
ceremonies. And on and on.
You mean in accordance with the Constitution of the United States of
America?
BTW the original pledge written by a Baptist Minister - Francis
Bellamy deliberately left out "under god".
C'mon, I dare you:
http://history.vineyard.net//pledge.htm
OK, now, let's make this a MONSTER MOVIE:
No second chance. No appeal. The Supreme Court has spoken, and as far as
government is concerned, "God is dead." Yes, you can worship at home or in
church, says the court, but don't you dare act on your beliefs in the public
square. Finally, religious Americans awaken to see the dangers of
secularism, but nothing can be done. With a powerful secular media
cheerleading and a huge secular lobby pouring money into Washington, there's
no real chance to correct the tyrannous decisions with an amendment.
So now America becomes officially a nation under "nothing" - government no
longer recognizes any authority higher than its own democratic opinions, a
true "dictatorship of the people," as Lenin called it. Atheism is thus able
to rise to a legal dominance never seen before in America, never even
imagined. After all, atheism and secularism are twins - one doesn't believe
in God, and the other can't. The end result is the same: Believers are made
outsiders.
That would make the Atheists the insiders. Whoooooo man!!!! Us 14.9 %
making you repeatedly rewash your posterior!! OH *****, man!! Do a
google search on "paranoia".
You assume that without YOUR church controlling the government, that
by default EVIL will.
Sound farfetched? It isn't really. An Al Gore victory easily could have
given us a high court that looked like Judge Stephen Reinhardt, the Democrat
appointee who shared the "under God" decision with Judge Goodwin. The truth
is that even now we are only one or two secular Supreme Court Justices away
from a solid ACLU court, and all that it implies - virulent hostility to
America's religious traditions.
Virulent with a vocbjhlulary like thwt hwo cluod you be rwong, nam?
OH, so it's you or us, the enemy, HUH?
Do you know how ridiculously stupid that idea is?
Read that again and dwell on it. Yea, up 2 lines a few times then
proceed.
One amendment, under God
While so many in the media have been doing their best to make light of the
9th Circuit decision on the Pledge of Allegiance, others recognize the very
real dangers involved in that decision. By most accounts, the ruling is
likely to be overturned, but that doesn't change the sobering message that
was sent to all Americans.
As currently interpreted, our Constitution is choking our religious
traditions out of existence, and there seems to be no stopping it as the
"under God" Pledge decision indicates. Even with a supposedly conservative
Supreme Court, victories against the secular encroachments of government are
too rare, and when they do come, they are attacked on all sides by groups
like the ACLU. It is often a battle for inches.
Recently, a number of congressmen called for a constitutional amendment to
preserve "under God" in the Pledge, but we need more than that. We need
something more historically based, something capable of inspiring average
Americans by eliminating the relativist interpretations of the First
Amendment, something that would help our federal government reclaim its lost
identity.
With so many secular forces in society hostile to the faiths of our fathers,
it's time to codify the "self-evident" truths of the Declaration of
Independence by putting them in the Constitution.
Let us declare ourselves to history by re-establishing the simple, but
essential, political principle that we are uniquely created beings, precious
before God, and that our rights come from God and not from government. There
can be no neutrality in this where government is concerned. We either have
souls or we do not. Our nation is either under God, or it is not.
Of course, no one wants a theocracy, something repugnant certainly to
Christian Americans who are, after all, in the vast majority. However,
decades of overreaching by the high court indicate that secularism is not
the answer either. There must be a third choice, because as long as
"disbelief" is considered to be on an equal footing with "belief," not only
will faith find itself unwelcome in our halls of power, it will eventually
be removed from the body politic like a threatening tumor. This could happen
if we let it.
The case isn't closed
Consider the current situation. Michael Newdow, the atheist who sued to get
God out of the Pledge, says that right now there are four Justices he
believes are favorable to his view: David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsberg,
Stephen Breyer and John Paul Stevens. Newdow also lists Justice Anthony
Kennedy as a possible fifth vote, due to a 1989 church-state dissent in
which Kennedy pointed out that the "under God" Pledge is problematic for
atheists.
Although unlikely, it's also fair to consider Justice O'Connor as a possible
6th vote due to her stated position that citizens should not be made to feel
like "outsiders" by the state when it comes to religion. Let's face it, "one
nation under God" leaves atheists out, and it's no coincidence that Newdow
made this very point a significant part of his argument to the 9th Circuit.
Sadly, radical atheists like Newdow will always feel like outsiders in a
nation under God, and they will continue all efforts to undermine our
religious traditions. That's the reality of it. Newdow doesn't believe his
little daughter has a soul, or that her rights come from anywhere but
government. These beliefs are in direct conflict with the views of most
Americans. And yet, atheist views are more common than any of us would like
to think within America's judicial and political circles, the very people
who will define the future Supreme Court.
So don't be misled by my "shocked" fellow Democrats, and all the pundit
proclamations that the "under God" decision will go nowhere. For now, it may
not, but there's nothing "nuts" about the judicial thinking of the 9th
Circuit decision, and most liberal politicians know it, despite their
election-year religiosity.
It's true that many constitutional experts, including quintessential liberal
Lawrence Tribe, say it's likely the Supreme Court will reverse the 9th
Circuit if the case gets that far. However, whether the "under God" decision
goes anywhere now is not the point. There are many atheist, secular and
anti-traditional organizations in Washington that are determined to win this
fight eventually - and by current constitutional standards they have a case.
That's the problem.
"Nobody can say that the 9th Circuit was illogical," said Washington Post
columnist E. J. Dionne who, despite reservations, considered the decision
"principled." He is not alone among pundits and experts to think that. Yale
law professor Jack Blakin told Time magazine that the opinion was
"technically correct," and writing in Newsweek, famed legal analyst Stuart
Taylor called it "perfectly plausible."
Although Taylor felt the decision was almost certain to be reversed, he made
the larger point about the legal mess we are in. "As much as the ruling
overreached, the California court was clearly taking its cues from a higher
authority - the U.S. Supreme Court."
An ethical foundation built on sand
So, clearly the 9th Circuit decision did not occur in a vacuum. It followed
a well-established pattern of thinking that atheism is on an equal footing
with America's Judeo-Christian traditions. It also revealed another
established belief, that monotheism itself - the pumping heart of Western
Culture - is just another form of worship, essentially no different, as far
as the government is concerned, than, say, worshiping ancient Greek gods
like Zeus and Hera (pagan deities who were always squabbling over one thing
or another).
Does this sound like an exaggeration? Then consider the now-famous words of
Judge Goodwin in June's 9th Circuit majority opinion:
In the context of the Pledge, the statement that the United States is a
nation, "under God" is an endorsement of religion. It is a profession of a
religious belief, namely a belief in monotheism. . . . A profession that we
are a nation "under God" is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to
a profession that we are a nation "under Jesus," a nation "under Vishnu," a
nation "under Zeus," or a nation "under no god," because none of these
professions can be neutral with respect to religion.
This "neutrality" renders government completely dysfunctional. The bottom
line? If you are someone who thinks thunder happens "when the gods are
angry," or if you burn incense to a rock you found on the beach, or if you
believe in nothing at all, you've got as much potential credibility with
this new government as those who believe the biblical worldview that reveals
God as "love," that speaks of the struggle between good and evil, and
promises hope of true freedom and eternal peace for all mankind.
Increasingly, judges can view all these approaches to religion as
essentially equal - which constitutionally means government can have little
or no official understanding of life based on anything but atheist science,
whether physical, biological, social or psychological. And as we've seen
countless times, not only do these scientists change their minds regularly,
their conclusions are often based on faulty or prejudiced interpretation of
data. Not a very reliable source of wisdom.
This would be less of a problem if government were not involved in our lives
in almost every possible way, from decisions on when a cause is worth the
shedding of American blood to decisions related to family and the social
order. What are the standards that inform these decisions? Americans have a
right to ask this question, and demand a clear answer.
The one-God problem
Unfortunately, a government that's neutral to the great moral and
philosophical questions of the ages cannot give us intelligent or even
cogent answers to life's urgent questions. It was not always so. Consider
what a 1951 U.S. Naval Officers' training manual says about the need for
good character in military leadership (once assumed as essential for public
office too):
By character is meant integrity, courage, morality, humility and unswerving
determination. Character is a spiritual force. It is a reflection of a man's
grip upon himself, the degree to which he is able to dominate the baser
instincts that beset us all.
This is the kind of wisdom that created a truly great society. But current
court vogue (not to mention some future ACLU court) would look askance at
such presumptions. Atheists would object to the idea of a "spiritual force."
And the very expression "base instincts" suggests a lack of tolerance. Who
gets to decide what base instincts are? Whose morality are we talking about?
A recent Zogby poll reports that three-quarters of American college
professors still teach a post-modern worldview that accepts no universal
right or wrong. So if you cook the books at Enron, it may or may not be
wrong. Only one-fourth of all professors teach that "there are clear and
uniform standards of right and wrong by which everyone should be judged."
Guess which professors are more likely to get secular government grants.
A government that lays claim to neutrality on religious - and thus on
traditional moral - issues is a government that inevitably lacks dependable
standards. This kind of government will be very uncomfortable with any
religion that claims to have clarity on those issues - and that means
monotheism. Thus "neutrality" becomes hostility. George Washington's views
would not be welcome. However, the accommodating vagueness of polytheism and
pantheism doesn't present the same problem to secular government and is
therefore less threatening.
Remember, monotheism has One Creator, God, and thus one truth, and one path
along which people can be guided if they are willing. That's why monotheism
was such a social revolution. There's clarity on core principles - God knows
what He thinks. And there are no squabbling divine personalities because God
knows who He is. Monotheism is by its very nature a "theory of everything,"
a unified field of thinking which allows for great social focus in building
and maintaining civilization. So, when the judicial system tries to rise
above this and treat all religions equally, it will necessarily come face to
face with monotheism.
The other great problem is the court's constitutional respect for atheism,
which is, after all, the most vague of belief systems. But more than that,
atheism also assumes an air of secular neutrality because it believes in
nothing at all. This gives it a dangerous tactical advantage over monotheism
in dealing with secular government. If nothing is done about this,
government will continue to favor atheist organizations within society, and
ultimately to favor religions with an indifferent worldview. Monotheism,
with its sureness of vision and purpose, will become increasingly alien to
secular government, which looks for compromise from its religious junior
partners.
But God doesn't compromise, and He makes a very poor junior partner.
Consequently, under the current interpretation of the Establishment Clause,
monotheism will become an outcast in its own society.
Secular hostility
There is so little understanding of the anti-God bias involved in
government's secular "neutrality" that it is not only quietly accepted by
many judges, and even some justices, it is loudly cheered on by the dominant
media culture. Of course, often this cheering is not rooted in ignorance,
but based on downright contempt.
"We should all applaud the brave decision of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of
Appeals," said the editorial page of the Philadelphia Daily News. "Let's be
honest about this issue - finally - after decades of mouth-frothing. The
word God doesn't belong in the Pledge, on our money, in anything with the
government's seal of approval."
Indeed, let's be honest. The New York Times called the 9th Circuit decision
a "well meaning ruling," and reminded its readers that "under God" became
part of the pledge "at the height of anti-communist fervor" in 1954. But
then the editorial went on to express its deeper sentiments. When it comes
to understanding the secular culture's contempt for religion, this comment
says it all:
The practical impact of the ruling is inviting a political backlash for a
matter that does not rise to a constitutional violation. We wish the words
had not been added back in 1954. But just the way removing a well-lodged
foreign body from an organism may sometimes be more damaging than letting it
stay put, removing those words would cause more harm than leaving them in.
Yes, nothing like trying to remove a "foreign body" and causing even greater
problems in terms of "political backlash." Better to wait until you have a
6-3 or even a 7-2 majority so you can cut God out cleanly and without much
opposition. Better wait until the public is more ready to accept full
secularism. In other words, now is not the time - but the time will come.
The secular left must be careful that religious Americans don't catch on to
the left's true contempt for religion, especially not in a crucial election
year. The left knows that if conservative America gets control of the
Senate, President Bush will get his judicial nominees approved and that
could mean a return to our traditional moral and political roots guided by
the Founders' original intent. Thus, the struggle in this country! And
remember, it is not a partisan struggle. One of the two 9th Circuit liberals
was a Republican. There are secularists in all parties.
The sleeping giant
Most religious Americans do not grasp that the culture war is really about
religion. Howard Kurtz, media critic for the Washington Post, made a
revealing observation right after two high-profile First Amendment decisions
on the "under God" Pledge and religious school choice. "The culture wars,
after a brief time-out for such mundane matters as fighting terrorism, are
back," said Kurtz. He gets it.
America's cultural struggle may take many forms, but at its heart, it's
about God, who He is and what He expects from His people. The atheist and
pagan forces in American society also know this, and that's why even
"ceremonial deism" makes them nervous. God needs to be eliminated, but
they've got to go slowly to avoid waking up the sleeping giant. According to
an ABC poll, 89 percent of the American public is in favor of keeping God in
the Pledge of Allegiance. That's a problem for radical secularists.
So what's going on now - and has been for decades - is a kind of seduction.
Police officers have a useful expression for it when it comes to the
corruption of innocence. They call it "progressive involvement." In child
molestation, for example, each step involves the child a bit more, until the
victim submits to sexual activity he or she would have run from earlier.
That's how progressive involvement works, and secularists have been using it
for years, one step at a time. Slowly our values are changed. Slowly our
laws are changed. Slowly God is squeezed out - until it is too late to turn
back.
However, now the embarrassing 9th Circuit has gone too far, too fast, and
the secular left is nervous that the people are catching on to the motives
behind "judicial progress." All eyes are on Judeo-Christian Americans. The
sleeping giant may yet awaken.
Protecting our future
Because of the outrage over the appellate court's rejection of the "under
God" Pledge, people might be willing to stem the tide of secularism. Most
Americans are tired of court rulings like those that forbid prayer at high
school football games and graduations. They just don't know what to do about
it, especially since the supposed "wall of separation" has become so much a
part of our social, political and media culture. However, after years of
being intimidated by groups like the ACLU (which agreed with the Pledge
decision, of course), the people might be ready to de-fang the beast.
Even William Rehnquist, chief justice of the Supreme Court, thinks the 1947
"separation" decision was a disaster. "The metaphor of a 'wall of
separation' is bad history and worse law," said Rehnquist. "It has made a
positive chaos out of court rulings. It should be frankly and explicitly
abandoned."
But the question is how? We know for sure that radical secularists won't
cooperate. Faith terrifies them. So how do we protect American principles
from being dismantled one at a time or in bunches? How can we guarantee our
children and grandchildren that they will inherit a government that is
officially allowed to recognize they have a soul? How can we prevent them
from being ruled over by a secular government that thinks of them as mere
"human resources" and that rejects any firm standard of truth or justice?
And how do we do all that without undermining our First Amendment freedoms?
It can't be through this continual high court battle of inches, where
nominees to the Supreme Court are forced to play a cat-and-mouse game to
hide their religious views from a supposedly religious Senate, where
hearings have become a quietly vicious arena in which people are destroyed
by lies and innuendo (the atheist left excels at playing that game). Nor can
we tolerate anymore this atheist hypocrisy of using every attacking question
to "expose" a conservative judicial nominee except the one question they
really want to ask: "Are you a believer?"
Most of us want a return to the "political prosperity" George Washington
talked about in his farewell address, but again the question is how? How do
we stop this national breakdown of character and conscience? How do we cut
the Gordian knot that binds any sensible discussion of "religion and
morality" in public policy? How do we break through to common sense? There
is an answer.
"America came into this world with a message for all mankind," said
President Bush on Independence Day. "That all are created equal and all are
meant to be free."
The third choice
In 1947, a Supreme Court dominated by secularists took those words "wall of
separation" from an incidental letter Thomas Jefferson wrote during his
presidency and used them to build the basis of the Separation of Church and
State decision. Jefferson, by the way, had no part in writing the
Constitution. Without precedent, the high court decided that government
could be separate from the one thing our founders thought was essential to
life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - faith in the reality of God.
Those justices believed something truly disastrous - that government can be
neutral to truth. They made one of the worst and most destructive judicial
decisions in history based on their own personal, secular assumptions about
life, and as a result, America is losing her identity. Our freedoms are at
risk. As President Bush said recently, "There is no capitalism without
conscience."
Well, there is no conscience without God. So let the following deeply held
words of Thomas Jefferson now come to the rescue in the 21st century as a
constitutional amendment:
"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights . .
."
These few words from the Declaration of Independence have rung true to
Americans throughout our history. They are the foundation of our freedom. We
have lived for them and died for them - and so have others, for they have
inspired freedom-fighters around the world. But, as important as they are,
they are not law. So let us now give them constitutional permanence.
How wonderful it would be to know that these self-evident truths are not
just ceremonial sentiments, but are actually part of our legal relationship
with government - part of our social contract.
And while we are considering this course of action, let us consider also
these other words of Thomas Jefferson:
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be
secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are a gift of
God?"
Words to think about. And words to act on.
Wow, I'm really hypnotized now, man!!
You are saying in way too many words that by not favoring your
religion our government would favor evil, satan, the non moral that
you blame all your problems on. You left out the other faiths, all of
which favor themselves over yours, as you do theirs. I didn't read the
entire above paragraph and didn't need to to get the drift. (Heres
that big hole you want to jump into to refute me): O.
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
Atheism teaches nothing about god. The above paragraph therefore
proves absolutely nothing at all. Sounds good, though: that's the
danger.
I bet you don't know the difference between a deism and theism.
Like you who seems to think any atheist is a psychotic killer, there
are atheists who believe that all religious people molest children.
It may be very difficult for a theist to recognize logic or get much
from it.
Listen->:
You quote the words of some of the founding fathers from things they
wrote when not composing the constitution, because they mention god.
Some of you leave out some of the context.
HEY don't stop now, I got you going this far, didn't I HAH!! You can't
stop.
You quote the Declaration of Independence because it mentions
"creator" - it also signs off with "in the year of our lord" . The
Declaration isn't the Constitution. Nice document and all, but it's
the Constitution we are obliged to.
None of that language is in the actual Constitution of the United
States of America or the Amendments there of. (awebhjbc)
It is the Constitution and the Amendments that is the foundation of
this America; it's those documents that contain the verbiage agreed to
by the writers that signed it into existence while putting aside their
individual differences, religion included, thereby ensuring that by
keeping the government and the church seperate, with a wall between
the two, freedom of the people is ensured.
And above all, as strange as it may sound for an atheist to say,
freedom of religion is necessary, read it again, freedom of religion
is necessary to ensure a free country.
Go ahead and ask why.
drift
.
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