On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 00:59:18 GMT, "DemsSuk"
<PainfulReality@comcast.net> posted in alt.atheism:

Eat ***** and die, Democrat *****.

Wow! No one can argue with THAT logic.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 09:01:39 -0800, Mark Johnson
<102334.12@compuserve.com> wrote:

"That the people have an equal, natural and unalienable right, freely
and peaceably to exercise their religion according to the dictates of
conscience; and that no religious sect or society ought to be favored
or established by law in preference of others."
--Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New York,
September 1788

And none suppressed by another sect or society.

really? baptists, who were forced to pay for anglican clergy, weren't
oppressed? catholics, who were forbidden to hold public office in
maryland until 1821, weren't oppressed?

do tell!

Sounds reasonable, until one sect or society, libralism, attempts to
impose itself on those sects with which it disagrees.

That way lies political correctness, tyranny, and nothing our founding
fathers desired.

funny that they didnt DESIRE to put GOD in the constitution.

Alberich

I think he'd consider Congressional hearings - on the matter of the
ACLU and its attack on civil liberties.

since when is limiting govt powers an attack on civil liberties?

---------------------------
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Alberich <Alberich@NoSpam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 09:01:39 -0800, Mark Johnson
<102334.12@compuserve.com> wrote:

Alberich <Alberich@NoSpam.com> wrote:

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 06:05:38 -0800, Mark Johnson
<102334.12@compuserve.com> wrote:

temporary state of Religion, and whilst it lasts will hardly be seen
with pleasure at the helm. Even in its coolest state, it has much
oftener been a motive to oppression than a restraint from it.

Anglicanism, for example.

Witness the Church of England. That's a far different matter than
saying the sect must be suppressed by the power of the state. If a man
swear by a prayer, on the bench, what duty is it of gubment to chill
the expression, and force him to desist?

"That the people have an equal, natural and unalienable right, freely
and peaceably to exercise their religion according to the dictates of
conscience; and that no religious sect or society ought to be favored
or established by law in preference of others."
--Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New York,
September 1788

And none suppressed by another sect or society.

Btw - you forget the Alabama state constitution.

Roll tide!

Are you disagreeing with me? Some of what you quoted makes my point.

Oh, there ya finally are:

Wondered where this was going.

What, that religion is flowers and bunnies?

Something like evolutionism? Btw, whatever happened to your statement
of The Theory of? Don't you believe in it, anymore? You got your
'darwin', and so on. But there's not a lot to the 'science' of
evolutionism, from what I read. It would be nice, though, to know if
you've finally seen the light, and given up on something which
practically even refuses to be defined.

with you on that (although not quite so optimistically). But what
almost everything quoted shows is that government should not be in the
relgion business.

But that's not how America was founded. Read again:


"You only had about three Catholics. You had a bunch of
Congregationalists, not surprisingly. There were a fair number of
Presbyterians. You had Episcopaleans, like Pres. Washington. There was
a Huguenot who signed the articles, as did at least one Catholic - so
politics. You only had about three or four Quaker/Shakers. And so on.
There were some one just . . didn't know. Believe it or not, there was
actually someone from the Church of England, of all things. So you've
got Anglicans, Huguenots, Catholics, and Quakers, along with the
'respectable' Episcopalean and Methodist, etc. All of them worked
together."


Oh, wait, I meant this:


Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that
man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these
great pillars of human happiness - these firmest props of the duties
of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man,
ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all
their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be
asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life,
if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the
instruments of investigation in courts of justice?


From Washington's farewell. Truer words . . as they say . .

They shouldn't even appear to be in the religion
business. The government should let religion do what it wants (as
long as the religion doesn't break arbitrary governmental laws

As I wrote:

That's not the gubment's business to stifle the free exercise of
religion. There may be harm in certain practices, violence and civil
crimes. But nothing like that occured in the case of Justice Moore and
his granite block.

Santeriasts have some trouble on those grounds), but the government
shouldn't appear to favor one religion at the expense of any other.
It's a basic point. But, by having the Ten Commandments placed in the
courthouse, the appearance is that the government, acting through its
agent, Judge Moore, favors Christianity.

I should hope so. Remember:

So - when the ACLU sues to get rid of a stone block with the
Decalogue, in Alabama . . then . . . .

Tough question for you?

No, not at all. What would Madison say?

Alberich

I think he'd consider Congressional hearings - on the matter of the
ACLU and its attack on civil liberties. Then he'd have to address the
matter of court sectarianism, and the attempt to impose on others. I
don't know what he'd say about the Internal Revenue Service, not to
mention federal entitlements.

I notice how you answer nothing I ask and everything I haven't.
What's wrong? Can't find the answer you want in Madison's writings?

It was a hypothetical. The ACLU was founded by Commies long after
Madison died.