| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Not-easily-duped" |
| Date: |
24 Nov 2003 11:14:27 AM |
| Object: |
Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
When you reach the Land that the Lord your God is giving you,
and occupy it, and settle down in it, and then declare to yourself:
"I must place a king over me like all the nations around me,"
make sure you place over you the king your God chooses.
You must choose one of your countrymen king over you.
You shall not put a foreigner over you who is not from among
your brethren...
As soon as he takes his seat on his royal throne, he must write
for himself a copy of this Law/Torah, he must keep it and
read it all the day of his life that he may learn to revere the Lord
his God, by being careful to observe all the Law and serve with
justice his fellow men. Deut 17:14-20
How can anyone tell me that this God is nolonger interested in
matters related to states, therefor we should separate Church and State?
This God is the source of Law and the God of principalities and dominions
How could he possibly be indiferent to politics?
WOE TO THOSE WHO SAY:"LET US SEPARATE CHRIST AND STATE."
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
24 Nov 2003 01:03:19 PM |
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"Not-easily-duped" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote
When you reach the Land that the Lord your God is giving you,
and occupy it, and settle down in it, and then declare to yourself:
"I must place a king over me like all the nations around me,"
make sure you place over you the king your God chooses.
....and if your neighbor won't bow before him, than place your
neighbor in chains, take his land, rape his daughters and sell his
sons into slavery.
Do this in memory of me.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
24 Nov 2003 07:22:14 PM |
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(Not-easily-duped) wrote in
news:bbba7302.0311240914.3af154ed@posting.google.com:
Subject: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants?
There is no god. Problem solved.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
"When you're slapped, you'll take it and like it!" -- Sam Spade
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| User: "Shan" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
24 Nov 2003 05:49:04 PM |
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(Not-easily-duped) wrote in message news:
WOE TO THOSE WHO SAY:"LET US SEPARATE CHRIST AND STATE."
Christ did not interfere in state matter and neither should any of
you. Clerics, ministers, rabbis go to your places of worship do
whatever you want inside. Don't bother the rest of the population
with your stupid kid-logic.
Shan
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| User: "Not-easily-duped" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
25 Nov 2003 09:44:11 AM |
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(Shan) wrote in message news:<71bd538c.0311241549.339e35ea@posting.google.com>...
Codebreaker@bigsecret.com (Not-easily-duped) wrote in message news:
WOE TO THOSE WHO SAY:"LET US SEPARATE CHRIST AND STATE."
Christ did not interfere in state matter and neither should any of
you. Clerics, ministers, rabbis go to your places of worship do
whatever you want inside. Don't bother the rest of the population
with your stupid kid-logic.
I this your interpretation of Church and State?
Your understanding is laughable.
Shan
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
24 Nov 2003 06:46:21 PM |
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Jesus said:
Grant unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar, grant unto the Lord that
which belongs to the Lord.
"Shan" <shankarees@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:71bd538c.0311241549.339e35ea@posting.google.com...
Codebreaker@bigsecret.com (Not-easily-duped) wrote in message news:
WOE TO THOSE WHO SAY:"LET US SEPARATE CHRIST AND STATE."
Christ did not interfere in state matter and neither should any of
you. Clerics, ministers, rabbis go to your places of worship do
whatever you want inside. Don't bother the rest of the population
with your stupid kid-logic.
Shan
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| User: "Not-easily-duped" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
25 Nov 2003 09:58:46 AM |
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<xDxwb.107939$Ec1.4822167@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
Jesus said:
Grant unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar, grant unto the Lord that
which belongs to the Lord.
Were you there???
What hell do you this means?
We do pay taxes to Caesar and yet we put money in the plates for poors
in our place of worship. So we have been giving to Caesar for his taxes
and to God for the destitutes.
It is Caesar who is in the likeness of Christ as the head of a state
so it is written: "MESSIAH IS A SON OF GOD LIKE CAESAR" ref Deut 18:15-19
How Caesar who is supposed to be in the likeness of Christ
in the earthly kingdom could oppose
Christ who reigns over the heavenly kingdom.
The verse you quoted is very suppect and is likely
to be a later addition by the clergy
who wanted to concentrate every power in their hands.
In order to do so, they had to make the verse says what it does not
mean to say.
"Shan" <shankarees@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:71bd538c.0311241549.339e35ea@posting.google.com...
Codebreaker@bigsecret.com (Not-easily-duped) wrote in message news:
WOE TO THOSE WHO SAY:"LET US SEPARATE CHRIST AND STATE."
Christ did not interfere in state matter and neither should any of
you. Clerics, ministers, rabbis go to your places of worship do
whatever you want inside. Don't bother the rest of the population
with your stupid kid-logic.
Shan
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| User: "Ron B." |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
25 Nov 2003 10:33:28 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:58:46 -0800, Not-easily-duped wrote:
It is Caesar who is in the likeness of Christ as the head of a state so
it is written: "MESSIAH IS A SON OF GOD LIKE CAESAR" ref Deut 18:15-19
How Caesar who is supposed to be in the likeness of Christ in the
earthly kingdom could oppose
Christ who reigns over the heavenly kingdom.
Hmmm,
Deuteronomy 18:15
"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you,
from your countrymen, you shall listen to him.
Deuteronomy 18:16
"This is according to all that you asked of the LORD your God in Horeb on
the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the
LORD my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.'
Deuteronomy 18:17
"The LORD said to me, 'They have spoken well.
Deuteronomy 18:18
'I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I
will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I
command him.
Deuteronomy 18:19
'It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he
shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.
(NASB)
Even assuming that this is a reference to the Messiah (Moses's words are
not specific here), where is the reference to Ceasar or civil government?
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| User: "Not-easily-duped" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
25 Nov 2003 05:34:01 PM |
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"Ron B." <zypher@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.25.16.33.20.603834@spamcop.net>...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:58:46 -0800, Not-easily-duped wrote:
It is Caesar who is in the likeness of Christ as the head of a state so
it is written: "MESSIAH IS A SON OF GOD LIKE CAESAR" ref Deut 18:15-19
How Caesar who is supposed to be in the likeness of Christ in the
earthly kingdom could oppose
Christ who reigns over the heavenly kingdom.
Hmmm,
Deuteronomy 18:15
"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you,
from your countrymen, you shall listen to him.
Deuteronomy 18:16
"This is according to all that you asked of the LORD your God in Horeb on
the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the
LORD my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.'
Deuteronomy 18:17
"The LORD said to me, 'They have spoken well.
Deuteronomy 18:18
'I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I
will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I
command him.
Deuteronomy 18:19
'It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he
shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.
(NASB)
Even assuming that this is a reference to the Messiah (Moses's words are
not specific here), where is the reference to Ceasar or civil government?
This is the main reason we have been saying that your secular learning
and modern scholarship are wanting. The Scriptures are about
ancient wisdom
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| User: "Ron B." |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
25 Nov 2003 10:00:38 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:01 -0800, Not-easily-duped wrote:
"Ron B." <zypher@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2003.11.25.16.33.20.603834@spamcop.net>...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:58:46 -0800, Not-easily-duped wrote:
It is Caesar who is in the likeness of Christ as the head of a state
so it is written: "MESSIAH IS A SON OF GOD LIKE CAESAR" ref Deut
18:15-19 How Caesar who is supposed to be in the likeness of Christ
in the earthly kingdom could oppose
Christ who reigns over the heavenly kingdom.
Hmmm,
Deuteronomy 18:15
"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among
you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him.
Deuteronomy 18:16
"This is according to all that you asked of the LORD your God in Horeb
on the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of
the LORD my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will
die.'
Deuteronomy 18:17
"The LORD said to me, 'They have spoken well.
Deuteronomy 18:18
'I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I
will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I
command him.
Deuteronomy 18:19
'It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he
shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.
(NASB)
Even assuming that this is a reference to the Messiah (Moses's words
are not specific here), where is the reference to Ceasar or civil
government?
This is the main reason we have been saying that your secular learning
and modern scholarship are wanting. The Scriptures are about ancient
wisdom
OK. Now, please answer the question.
BTW, I am not an Atheist or secularist. I am posting through
a.r.c.orthodox
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| User: "Not-easily-duped" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
26 Nov 2003 06:12:42 PM |
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"Ron B." <zypher@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.26.04.00.34.902547@spamcop.net>...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:01 -0800, Not-easily-duped wrote:
"Ron B." <zypher@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2003.11.25.16.33.20.603834@spamcop.net>...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:58:46 -0800, Not-easily-duped wrote:
It is Caesar who is in the likeness of Christ as the head of a state
so it is written: "MESSIAH IS A SON OF GOD LIKE CAESAR" ref Deut
18:15-19 How Caesar who is supposed to be in the likeness of Christ
in the earthly kingdom could oppose
Christ who reigns over the heavenly kingdom.
Hmmm,
Deuteronomy 18:15
"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among
you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him.
Deuteronomy 18:16
"This is according to all that you asked of the LORD your God in Horeb
on the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of
the LORD my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will
die.'
Deuteronomy 18:17
"The LORD said to me, 'They have spoken well.
Deuteronomy 18:18
'I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I
will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I
command him.
Deuteronomy 18:19
'It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he
shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.
(NASB)
Even assuming that this is a reference to the Messiah (Moses's words
are not specific here), where is the reference to Ceasar or civil
government?
This is the main reason we have been saying that your secular learning
and modern scholarship are wanting. The Scriptures are about ancient
wisdom
OK. Now, please answer the question.
What is the Office of Caesar?
WHEN GOD CALLED CYRUS THE PERSIAN KING HIS MESSIAH WHO WILL
DO HIS WILL AND SUBDUE NATIONS, DOES THIS TELL YOU ANYTHING?
Now change Cyrus with Caesar, what does that tell you in relation
with Christ/Messiah?
How about Saul another kind of Messiah????
In God' eyes there no civil government, this classification
is merely human.
BTW, I am not an Atheist or secularist. I am posting through
a.r.c.orthodox
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| User: "maf 1029" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
26 Nov 2003 06:46:37 PM |
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On 26 Nov 2003 16:12:42 -0800,
(Not-easily-duped) wrote:
What is the Office of Caesar?
WHEN GOD CALLED CYRUS THE PERSIAN KING HIS MESSIAH WHO WILL
DO HIS WILL AND SUBDUE NATIONS, DOES THIS TELL YOU ANYTHING?
Now change Cyrus with Caesar, what does that tell you in relation
with Christ/Messiah?
That the Christ figure was, to put it bluntly, full of *****, and we
should be wrorshipping some Persian secular king-guy named Cyrus, and
we should also be extrapolating therefrom (and therefore) that secular
government is the end-all-be-all in charge, why do you ask?
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| User: "Not-easily-duped" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
26 Nov 2003 06:03:21 PM |
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"Ron B." <zypher@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.26.04.00.34.902547@spamcop.net>...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:01 -0800, Not-easily-duped wrote:
"Ron B." <zypher@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2003.11.25.16.33.20.603834@spamcop.net>...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:58:46 -0800, Not-easily-duped wrote:
It is Caesar who is in the likeness of Christ as the head of a state
so it is written: "MESSIAH IS A SON OF GOD LIKE CAESAR" ref Deut
18:15-19 How Caesar who is supposed to be in the likeness of Christ
in the earthly kingdom could oppose
Christ who reigns over the heavenly kingdom.
Hmmm,
Deuteronomy 18:15
"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among
you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him.
Deuteronomy 18:16
"This is according to all that you asked of the LORD your God in Horeb
on the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of
the LORD my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will
die.'
Deuteronomy 18:17
"The LORD said to me, 'They have spoken well.
Deuteronomy 18:18
'I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I
will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I
command him.
Deuteronomy 18:19
'It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he
shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.
(NASB)
Even assuming that this is a reference to the Messiah (Moses's words
are not specific here), where is the reference to Ceasar or civil
government?
This is the main reason we have been saying that your secular learning
and modern scholarship are wanting. The Scriptures are about ancient
wisdom
OK. Now, please answer the question.
What question?
BTW, I am not an Atheist or secularist. I am posting through
a.r.c.orthodox
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| User: "Not-easily-duped" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
25 Nov 2003 06:26:33 PM |
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"Ron B." <zypher@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.25.16.33.20.603834@spamcop.net>...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:58:46 -0800, Not-easily-duped wrote:
shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.
(NASB)
Even assuming that this is a reference to the Messiah (Moses's words are
not specific here), where is the reference to Ceasar or civil government?
But the apostles appealed to this text to justify that Jesus was the Messiah.
Read the speach by Stephen before the Sanhedrin.
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| User: "Billy Goat" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
24 Nov 2003 10:49:16 PM |
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(Not-easily-duped) wrote in message news:<bbba7302.0311240914.3af154ed@posting.google.com>...
WOE TO THOSE WHO SAY:"LET US SEPARATE CHRIST AND STATE."
"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's."
--Jesus Christ
--Billy
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
25 Nov 2003 12:18:57 PM |
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(Not-easily-duped) wrote in message news:<bbba7302.0311240914.3af154ed@posting.google.com>...
When you reach the Land that the Lord your God is giving you,
and occupy it, and settle down in it, and then declare to yourself:
"I must place a king over me like all the nations around me,"
make sure you place over you the king your God chooses.
You must choose one of your countrymen king over you.
You shall not put a foreigner over you who is not from among
your brethren...
As soon as he takes his seat on his royal throne, he must write
for himself a copy of this Law/Torah, he must keep it and
read it all the day of his life that he may learn to revere the Lord
his God, by being careful to observe all the Law and serve with
justice his fellow men. Deut 17:14-20
How can anyone tell me that this God is nolonger interested in
matters related to states, therefor we should separate Church and State?
This God is the source of Law and the God of principalities and dominions
How could he possibly be indiferent to politics?
WOE TO THOSE WHO SAY:"LET US SEPARATE CHRIST AND STATE."
Fine, woe to us.
If you want a theocracy, move to Iran. Don't expect the US to throw
away its constitution just because you demand it. I don't give a *****
what your favorite myth demands. You will have to fight to destroy
the US the way your type destroyed Iran.
jwk
BAAWA
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| User: "SReeseMe" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
24 Nov 2003 03:49:12 PM |
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Subject: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants?
From: (Not-easily-duped)
Date: 11/24/2003 12:14 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <bbba7302.0311240914.3af154ed@posting.google.com>
When you reach the Land that the Lord your God is giving you,
and occupy it, and settle down in it, and then declare to yourself:
"I must place a king over me like all the nations around me,"
make sure you place over you the king your God chooses.
You must choose one of your countrymen king over you.
You shall not put a foreigner over you who is not from among
your brethren...
As soon as he takes his seat on his royal throne, he must write
for himself a copy of this Law/Torah, he must keep it and
read it all the day of his life that he may learn to revere the Lord
his God, by being careful to observe all the Law and serve with
justice his fellow men. Deut 17:14-20
How can anyone tell me that this God is nolonger interested in
matters related to states, therefor we should separate Church and State?
This God is the source of Law and the God of principalities and dominions
How could he possibly be indiferent to politics?
WOE TO THOSE WHO SAY:"LET US SEPARATE CHRIST AND STATE."
Tell you what as soon as you can prove the existance of your imaginary friend
in the sky (or he/she announces him/herself, whichever) we'll consider it.
Until then, keep your mythology to yourself.
-Stephen
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| User: "The Department of Defense" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
24 Nov 2003 12:02:51 PM |
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Nobody knows what "God" wants..... but serperation of church and state makes
all the sense in this world.....
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| User: "Wayne Aiken" |
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| Title: Re: Separation Of Church And State Is It What God Wants? |
24 Nov 2003 11:59:55 AM |
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Not-easily-duped (Codebreaker@bigsecret.com) wrote:
: How can anyone tell me that this God is nolonger interested in
: matters related to states, therefor we should separate Church and State?
: This God is the source of Law and the God of principalities and dominions
: How could he possibly be indiferent to politics?
:
: WOE TO THOSE WHO SAY:"LET US SEPARATE CHRIST AND STATE."
Thanks for acknowledging that the USA is not a "Christian Nation".
Granted, you might not like that fact, but its refreshing to see someone
come out and admit that our society is NOT run according to the Bible,
instead of inventing some phony-baloney historical rationalization to
that effect.
----
Wayne Aiken (#304) / NC Director \ Getting AANEWS? Send msg to:
PO Box 30904 / American Atheists \ <AANEWS-on@atheists.org> to
Raleigh, NC 27622 / \ start your Free subscription
(919) 954-5956 / http://www.atheists.org/nc/ AIM: slackx42
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| User: "Mark Johnson" |
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| Title: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
24 Nov 2003 04:13:01 PM |
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(Wayne Aiken) wrote:
Thanks for acknowledging that the USA is not a "Christian Nation".
Granted, you might not like that fact
Wayne. YOU may not like this fact, but our founders insisted upon a
Judeo-Christian ethic that informed public policy. They thought the
nation would be lost without it.
History seems determined to prove them right. And the fight, going
into the 2004 election, is on between the GOP, many of whom have to be
dragged kicking and screaming to defend the notion, and the Dem who
now actively side with Norman Lear, the ACLU, and whatever have you.
Peace.
---------------------------------------
One mark of a deteriorating society is when its people cannot
discern truth from lies. Another is when they don't even bother
to try and will believe whatever their itching ears want to hear.
[Cal Thomas, 4 SEP 2000]
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
26 Nov 2003 05:54:04 AM |
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Mark Johnson wrote:
aiken@unity.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken) wrote:
Thanks for acknowledging that the USA is not a "Christian Nation".
Granted, you might not like that fact
Wayne. YOU may not like this fact, but our founders insisted upon a
Judeo-Christian ethic that informed public policy. They thought the
nation would be lost without it.
'Cause the Catholic God is Mark's ONLY hope for getting a few
bucks in his pocket...
Paul
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| User: "Al" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
26 Nov 2003 10:16:31 AM |
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Paul Duca <tomservo@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<3FC494C3.35921B88@comcast.net>...
Mark Johnson wrote:
aiken@unity.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken) wrote:
Thanks for acknowledging that the USA is not a "Christian Nation".
Granted, you might not like that fact
Wayne. YOU may not like this fact, but our founders insisted upon a
Judeo-Christian ethic that informed public policy. They thought the
nation would be lost without it.
'Cause the Catholic God is Mark's ONLY hope for getting a few
bucks in his pocket...
Paul
Is the "Catholic God" different from the Presbyterian God?
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
26 Nov 2003 04:15:00 PM |
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(Al) wrote in message news:<df4e6c04.0311260816.335910b0@posting.google.com>...
Is the "Catholic God" different from the Presbyterian God?
No, they're both something that this country wasn't founded upon.
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
26 Nov 2003 07:38:53 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
aggreen1@netscape.net (Al) wrote in message news:<df4e6c04.0311260816.335910b0@posting.google.com>...
Is the "Catholic God" different from the Presbyterian God?
No, they're both something that this country wasn't founded upon.
Mark thinks the Catholic God is the be-all and end-all...
Paul
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
25 Nov 2003 08:37:35 AM |
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Mark Johnson wrote:
aiken@unity.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken) wrote:
Thanks for acknowledging that the USA is not a "Christian Nation".
Granted, you might not like that fact
Wayne. YOU may not like this fact, but our founders insisted upon a
Judeo-Christian ethic that informed public policy. They thought the
nation would be lost without it.
Which is exactly why the Founders created an explictly SECULAR government,
going so far as to prohibit at *all* levels of government any and all
"religious tests" for holding office (Article VI, para 3.) In fact, they
felt so strongly about this matter that the prohibition against religious
tests is the one and only time that the power of the Constitution
stretches down to the local level: " no religious test shall ever be
required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United
States."
The Founders established a nation of laws, not religious doctrines. They
established a nation of laws, not "Judeo-Christian ethics." And it was to
be, in the words of the Supreme Law of the Land (US Constitution, Article
VI, para. 2) an entirely secular nation.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
05 Dec 2003 12:40:08 PM |
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On 24 Nov 2003, Mark Johnson <102334.12@compuserve.com> screwed up his
face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:kd05svkl1spti9ln678nebtu4c49qf47ds@4ax.com:
One mark of a deteriorating society is when its people cannot
discern truth from lies. Another is when they don't even bother
to try and will believe whatever their itching ears want to hear.
This is quite true, and you'll notice that the world is full of people
who cannot discern truth from religious lies, and believe whatever myths
they hear without even trying to determine the truth about them.
Interesting that you'd use a quote like that and completely fail to
recognize the irony.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
03 Dec 2003 09:16:09 AM |
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On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:13:01 -0800, Mark Johnson
<102334.12@compuserve.com> ejaculated:
aiken@unity.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken) wrote:
Thanks for acknowledging that the USA is not a "Christian Nation".
Granted, you might not like that fact
Wayne. YOU may not like this fact, but our founders insisted upon a
Judeo-Christian ethic that informed public policy. They thought the
nation would be lost without it.
History seems determined to prove them right. And the fight, going
into the 2004 election, is on between the GOP, many of whom have to be
dragged kicking and screaming to defend the notion, and the Dem who
now actively side with Norman Lear, the ACLU, and whatever have you.
If what you say is true, then why didn't they follow "god's commands"
about picking a leader when they drafted the Constitution. It says
explicitly in there that there cannot be any religious test for the
President which violates the commands in Deut 17:14-20.
Perhaps you could go and read some of the founders sometime and
realize that those who were at all sympathetic to religious sentiment
made a bifurcation between an ethic based on the "Christian virtues"*
of love, respect, and humility and established denominations of
Christianity. Almost uniformly, our Founder's were suspicious and
often outright hostile to established churches.
*I put scary quotes around the phrase because those virtues seem to be
in short supply among those fundamentalist Christians that tout the
"Christian nation" rhetoric.
--
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "~Mark Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
24 Nov 2003 07:01:40 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:13:01 -0800, Mark Johnson
<102334.12@compuserve.com> wrote:
aiken@unity.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken) wrote:
Thanks for acknowledging that the USA is not a "Christian Nation".
Granted, you might not like that fact
W
Wayne. ***I*** may not like this fact, but our founders did NOT
insist upon a Judeo-Christian ethic that informed public policy. They
thought the nation would be lost with it.
Peace.
---------------------------------------
blanche@cco.blanchetech.edu
Theorem: All numbers are equal.
Choose arbitrary ***** and blanche, and let tit = ***** + blanche.
(***** + blanche)(***** - blanche) = tit(***** - blanche)
*****^2 - blanche^2 = titass - titblanche
*****^2 - titass = blanche^2 - titblanche
*****^2 - titass + (tit^2)/4 = blanche^2 - titblanche + (tit^2)/4
(***** - tit/2)^2 = (blanche - tit/2)^2
***** - tit/2 = blanche - tit/2
***** = blanche
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
05 Dec 2003 01:03:15 PM |
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On 24 Nov 2003, ~Mark Johnson <ymj@pacnopsambell.net> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:jha5svggchfjhpev9k8j9chcj167u542ao@4ax.com:
---------------------------------------
blanche@cco.blanchetech.edu
Theorem: All numbers are equal.
Choose arbitrary ***** and blanche, and let tit = ***** + blanche.
(***** + blanche)(***** - blanche) = tit(***** - blanche)
*****^2 - blanche^2 = titass - titblanche
*****^2 - titass = blanche^2 - titblanche
*****^2 - titass + (tit^2)/4 = blanche^2 - titblanche + (tit^2)/4
(***** - tit/2)^2 = (blanche - tit/2)^2
***** - tit/2 = blanche - tit/2
***** = blanche
Sneaky, sneaky, are we? Trying to take the square root of each side to
simplify... a clever man, you are! But not quite clever enough...
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
26 Nov 2003 06:17:39 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:01:40 GMT, ~Mark Johnson
<ymj@pacnopsambell.net> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:13:01 -0800, Mark Johnson
<102334.12@compuserve.com> wrote:
aiken@unity.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken) wrote:
Thanks for acknowledging that the USA is not a "Christian Nation".
Granted, you might not like that fact
W
Wayne. ***I*** may not like this fact, but our founders did NOT
insist upon a Judeo-Christian ethic that informed public policy. They
thought the nation would be lost with it.
Some of the FFs (eg Washington) were not themselves Judaeo-Christian
but felt it was the only way to keep the masses in line while they
themselves didn't need it.
Public policy reflected the enlightenment.
It's nothing new. Seneca who died in CE 65 wrote: "Religion is
regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by
rulers as useful".
But it is irrelevant what the founders thought: they determined that
this should be a secular nation.
Peace.
---------------------------------------
blanche@cco.blanchetech.edu
Theorem: All numbers are equal.
Choose arbitrary ***** and blanche, and let tit = ***** + blanche.
(***** + blanche)(***** - blanche) = tit(***** - blanche)
*****^2 - blanche^2 = titass - titblanche
*****^2 - titass = blanche^2 - titblanche
*****^2 - titass + (tit^2)/4 = blanche^2 - titblanche + (tit^2)/4
(***** - tit/2)^2 = (blanche - tit/2)^2
***** - tit/2 = blanche - tit/2
***** = blanche
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: Still a Christian Nation (wasRe: Separation Of Church And State) |
04 Dec 2003 04:51:54 PM |
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Mark Johnson <102334.12@compuserve.com> thought hard and said:
But it is irrelevant what the founders thought: they determined that
this should be a secular nation.
They insisted upon a Judeo-Christian ethic informing public policy.
How so?
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, and Krzysztof Penderecki are my Gods.
Madly Insane EAC Scientist.
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