| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
02 Feb 2006 12:05:15 PM |
| Object: |
Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
Separation of church, state divinely inspired
Last month I wrote about the Constitution and Christmas. As a part-time
historian and full-time Christian, I wish to review the broader issue.
First, distinguish the Constitution from the Declaration of Independence.
The Declaration (a justification for rebellion) said "all men are created
equal" and "are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."
The Constitution (the foundation of our laws) makes no mention of a
Creator, God or Christianity. It says our laws derive from "We the People"
and that slaves were only three-fifths of a free person. The Constitution
is a secular document. Its only reference to religion prohibits any
"religious test" for "Office or public Trust."
While the words "separation between Church and State" appear nowhere in the
Constitution, Thomas Jefferson said the First Amendment intentionally built
"a wall of separation between Church and State." James Madison also wrote
about "separation between religion and government in the Constitution." If
those two witnesses to the Constitution's intent are not enough, read the
Journal of the Senate for 1797. Article XI of the treaty between the United
States and the pirates of Tripoli states: "As the government of the United
States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion,"
the Muslims of Tripoli need not fear a religious war. That treaty was
approved unanimously by men who were involved in the writing of the
Constitution, and there was no opposition to it, probably because Pat
Robertson wasn't alive then.
Pat says that Benjamin Franklin urged the Constitutional Convention to
pray. He doesn't tell us that the convention ignored Franklin's advice.
Personally, I believe the Constitution was divinely inspired. Historically,
I know the Founding Fathers were mostly Deists, led by the Enlightenment,
not by their ministers. Therein lies the distinction between faith and
knowledge, and the reason why the Founding Fathers added the First
Amendment: To protect religion from governmental intrusion and to protect
us from religionists who believe they are God's spokesmen in political
matters.
I seek God's direction in my personal affairs. Pat uses his form of
religion to drive political affairs. He says that hurricanes struck Florida
and New Orleans because of people's sinfulness. If I lived in New Orleans,
I would expect the decision to rebuild it would be based on rational
engineering factors and not on the "700 Club's" assessment of my spiritual
worthiness. Both religion and public policy are worthy pursuits, but I
believe our Creator gave us the First Amendment to preserve their separate
roles in society. What if the Christian Coalition could make decisions on
whether to assassinate the president of another country? We would be no
different than Iran's president, who advocates Israel's destruction for
religious reasons.
If you're upset by people who oppose public display of religious beliefs,
remember and appreciate the Constitutional separation of church and state.
Life has always been more difficult when religious zealots (whether
Christians or Islamists) control government.
Raymond Kuehne is a St. George resident.
Originally published January 16, 2006
Print this article Email this to a friend
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS ˇ Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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| User: "Lost Planet Airman" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
20 Feb 2006 09:19:27 PM |
|
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wrote:
Separation of church, state divinely inspired
Last month I wrote about the Constitution and Christmas. As a part-time
historian and full-time Christian, I wish to review the broader issue.
First, distinguish the Constitution from the Declaration of Independence.
The Declaration (a justification for rebellion) said "all men are created
equal" and "are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."
The Constitution (the foundation of our laws) makes no mention of a
Creator, God or Christianity. It says our laws derive from "We the People"
and that slaves were only three-fifths of a free person. The Constitution
is a secular document. Its only reference to religion prohibits any
"religious test" for "Office or public Trust."
This may be true, but almost every state constitution explicitly
mentions God. And since at the establishment of the Constitution, they
were the primary governing force, the point can be made that it is not
an entirely secular country.
Of course, post Civil War, the states don't really matter, so I guess
you could say Constitution - 1865, Christianity based, 1865 +, Secular :-)
While the words "separation between Church and State" appear nowhere in the
Constitution, Thomas Jefferson said the First Amendment intentionally built
"a wall of separation between Church and State." James Madison also wrote
about "separation between religion and government in the Constitution." If
those two witnesses to the Constitution's intent are not enough, read the
Journal of the Senate for 1797. Article XI of the treaty between the United
States and the pirates of Tripoli states: "As the government of the United
States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion,"
the Muslims of Tripoli need not fear a religious war. That treaty was
approved unanimously by men who were involved in the writing of the
Constitution, and there was no opposition to it, probably because Pat
Robertson wasn't alive then.
Pat says that Benjamin Franklin urged the Constitutional Convention to
pray. He doesn't tell us that the convention ignored Franklin's advice.
Personally, I believe the Constitution was divinely inspired. Historically,
I know the Founding Fathers were mostly Deists, led by the Enlightenment,
not by their ministers. Therein lies the distinction between faith and
knowledge, and the reason why the Founding Fathers added the First
Amendment: To protect religion from governmental intrusion and to protect
us from religionists who believe they are God's spokesmen in political
matters.
I seek God's direction in my personal affairs. Pat uses his form of
religion to drive political affairs. He says that hurricanes struck Florida
and New Orleans because of people's sinfulness. If I lived in New Orleans,
I would expect the decision to rebuild it would be based on rational
engineering factors and not on the "700 Club's" assessment of my spiritual
worthiness. Both religion and public policy are worthy pursuits, but I
believe our Creator gave us the First Amendment to preserve their separate
roles in society. What if the Christian Coalition could make decisions on
whether to assassinate the president of another country? We would be no
different than Iran's president, who advocates Israel's destruction for
religious reasons.
If you're upset by people who oppose public display of religious beliefs,
remember and appreciate the Constitutional separation of church and state.
Life has always been more difficult when religious zealots (whether
Christians or Islamists) control government.
Raymond Kuehne is a St. George resident.
Originally published January 16, 2006
Print this article Email this to a friend
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS ˇ Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
.
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| User: " torresD" |
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| Title: Kidnap & Torture - USA Style |
02 Feb 2006 12:41:42 PM |
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Kidnap & Torture, USA Style
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11314.htm
Falluja - The Day After
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9010.htm
9/11 Dutch Documentary
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11222.htm
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised - Hugo Chavez Video
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11167.htm
Noam Chomsky
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9274.htm
Iraq War Video
http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video.htm
Purple Heart Video
http://www.purpleheartsbook.com/vid.php
When I Came Home - Video
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7692.htm
Homeless vets, from Vietnam to Iraq
Director's note:
When I Came Home is a documentary
which follows the lives and struggles
of several homeless veterans,
including those who have recently
returned home from the war in Iraq.
.
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| User: "Thandarr" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
02 Feb 2006 05:07:02 PM |
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Why are Christians so often opposed to the separation of church and
state when Jesus himself said "Render unto Caesar that which is
Caesar's and to God that which is God's"? He said that in a time and
society in which the identity of church and state were a given for both
the Jews and the Romans. While it sounds like a flippant response
today, it was very likely novel to his listeners.
I'm not the greatest scholar of antiquity I know, but I've never been
able to find an earlier expression of the idea of separation of church
and state. While many of Jesus's teachings had been in circulation
before he taught, that one may have been original with him.
So why, Christians, was your Lord wrong about this?
Thandarr
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
02 Feb 2006 06:38:20 PM |
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"Thandarr" <thandarr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1138921622.742401.216420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Why are Christians so often opposed to the separation of church and
state when Jesus himself said "Render unto Caesar that which is
Caesar's and to God that which is God's"? He said that in a time and
society in which the identity of church and state were a given for both
the Jews and the Romans. While it sounds like a flippant response
today, it was very likely novel to his listeners.
I'm not the greatest scholar of antiquity I know, but I've never been
able to find an earlier expression of the idea of separation of church
and state. While many of Jesus's teachings had been in circulation
before he taught, that one may have been original with him.
So why, Christians, was your Lord wrong about this?
Thandarr
Because Christian fanatics want the government to FORCE everyone to believe
what they do!
They don't have any valid objective evidence so they need to force others in
line with their faith.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
03 Feb 2006 07:01:14 PM |
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On 2 Feb 2006 15:07:02 -0800, "Thandarr" <thandarr@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Why are Christians so often opposed to the separation of church and
state when Jesus himself said "Render unto Caesar that which is
Caesar's and to God that which is God's"?
Because what 'Jesus' said doesn't matter to Christians.
He said that in a time and
society in which the identity of church and state were a given for both
the Jews and the Romans. While it sounds like a flippant response
today, it was very likely novel to his listeners.
I'm not the greatest scholar of antiquity I know, but I've never been
able to find an earlier expression of the idea of separation of church
and state. While many of Jesus's teachings had been in circulation
before he taught, that one may have been original with him.
So why, Christians, was your Lord wrong about this?
Of course. The fictional character was wrong about everything else.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
03 Feb 2006 11:46:39 PM |
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On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 17:07:02 -0600, Thandarr wrote
(in article <1138921622.742401.216420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
Why are Christians so often opposed to the separation of church and
state when Jesus himself said "Render unto Caesar that which is
Caesar's and to God that which is God's"? He said that in a time and
society in which the identity of church and state were a given for both
the Jews and the Romans. While it sounds like a flippant response
today, it was very likely novel to his listeners.
I'm not the greatest scholar of antiquity I know, but I've never been
able to find an earlier expression of the idea of separation of church
and state. While many of Jesus's teachings had been in circulation
before he taught, that one may have been original with him.
So why, Christians, was your Lord wrong about this?
Thandarr
Most of the people who try claiming to be Christian
are, in actuality, not Christians but Republicans.
George W C Bush43 claims to be a "born-again Christian".
Notice that Coward-in-Chief Bush was "born again"
/before/ he became a serial killer and before
moving Weapons of Mass Destruction into another
country.
"Christ-like"?
George W Bush?
Not in this lifetime.
The USA PATRIOT* Act:
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
Gray Shockley
---------------
"Mission Accomplished"
MayDay, 2003
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
05 Feb 2006 01:37:02 PM |
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Thanks for your help, Stoney and Grey, but I wonder why I never get any
Christians to respond to questions like that. I have been askng for a
long time why the Christian agenda in America bears so little
resemblance to anything Jesus of Nazareth ever said.
I can always get non-Christians to answer that Christians can't endorse
public policy based on the teachings of Jesus because they haven't
actually read the scriptures and therefore have little or no idea what
Jesus said. Unfortunately, that may be the right answe.
Now I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means, but assuming that the
actual meaning of the texts somewhat resembles the literal meaning of
the texts, it seems that the Christian agenda would be thing like
feeding the hungry, not abolishing welfare; healing the sick, not
fighting universal health coverage; promoting world peace, not military
superiority; forgiving sinners, not three strikes and you're out.
Obviously I'm wrong, but they'll never tell me why.
Thandarr
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
06 Feb 2006 04:43:20 PM |
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On 5 Feb 2006 11:37:02 -0800, wrote in alt.atheism
Thanks for your help, Stoney and Grey, but I wonder why I never get any
Christians to respond to questions like that.
Shame and cowardice.
I have been askng for a
long time why the Christian agenda in America bears so little
resemblance to anything Jesus of Nazareth ever said.
I can always get non-Christians to answer that Christians can't endorse
public policy based on the teachings of Jesus because they haven't
actually read the scriptures and therefore have little or no idea what
Jesus said. Unfortunately, that may be the right answe.
The vast majority only read the 'safe' passages.
Now I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means, but assuming that the
actual meaning of the texts somewhat resembles the literal meaning of
the texts, it seems that the Christian agenda would be thing like
feeding the hungry, not abolishing welfare; healing the sick, not
fighting universal health coverage; promoting world peace, not military
superiority; forgiving sinners, not three strikes and you're out.
Obviously I'm wrong, but they'll never tell me why.
There's no profit in it for them.
Thandarr
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
06 Feb 2006 08:46:19 PM |
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On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:43:20 -0600, stoney wrote
(in article <13kfu1lmjq5nliongkbm7lqnovuhfuidqv@4ax.com>):
On 5 Feb 2006 11:37:02 -0800, wrote in alt.atheism
Thanks for your help, Stoney and Grey, but I wonder why I never get any
Christians to respond to questions like that.
Shame and cowardice.
I have been askng for a
long time why the Christian agenda in America bears so little
resemblance to anything Jesus of Nazareth ever said.
I can always get non-Christians to answer that Christians can't endorse
public policy based on the teachings of Jesus because they haven't
actually read the scriptures and therefore have little or no idea what
Jesus said. Unfortunately, that may be the right answe.
The vast majority only read the 'safe' passages.
Now I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means, but assuming that the
actual meaning of the texts somewhat resembles the literal meaning of
the texts, it seems that the Christian agenda would be thing like
feeding the hungry, not abolishing welfare; healing the sick, not
fighting universal health coverage; promoting world peace, not military
superiority; forgiving sinners, not three strikes and you're out.
Obviously I'm wrong, but they'll never tell me why.
There's no profit in it for them.
Thandarr
That's certainly true. Always be suspicious of a "not for prophet" business
such as Falwell, Robertson, Billy James Hargis, [whoever] and Tammy, Roy S
Moore [a true order of sos], Dr "I can diagnose on tv in three seconds" Frist
(what xfer of funds?].
If President George W C Bush43 is the best the Republican Party Animals have,
what is down just two or three notches? Should their sentences be commuted to
capital punishment or should the original sentences be enforced. And should
immediate family members be allowed to look for their loved ones' parts and
pieces?
I warned people and I have warned people: Do what HE says or HE will use
your family for finger food.
Gray Shockley
------------------
When Cthulhu is running as a reform
candidate, there is //NO// morality
in the present administration.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Separation of church, state divinely inspired |
07 Feb 2006 05:44:59 PM |
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On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 20:46:19 -0600, Gray Shockley
<grayshockley@gmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:43:20 -0600, stoney wrote
(in article <13kfu1lmjq5nliongkbm7lqnovuhfuidqv@4ax.com>):
On 5 Feb 2006 11:37:02 -0800, wrote in alt.atheism
Thanks for your help, Stoney and Grey, but I wonder why I never get any
Christians to respond to questions like that.
Shame and cowardice.
I have been askng for a
long time why the Christian agenda in America bears so little
resemblance to anything Jesus of Nazareth ever said.
I can always get non-Christians to answer that Christians can't endorse
public policy based on the teachings of Jesus because they haven't
actually read the scriptures and therefore have little or no idea what
Jesus said. Unfortunately, that may be the right answe.
The vast majority only read the 'safe' passages.
Now I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means, but assuming that the
actual meaning of the texts somewhat resembles the literal meaning of
the texts, it seems that the Christian agenda would be thing like
feeding the hungry, not abolishing welfare; healing the sick, not
fighting universal health coverage; promoting world peace, not military
superiority; forgiving sinners, not three strikes and you're out.
Obviously I'm wrong, but they'll never tell me why.
There's no profit in it for them.
Thandarr
That's certainly true. Always be suspicious of a "not for prophet" business
such as Falwell, Robertson, Billy James Hargis, [whoever] and Tammy, Roy S
Moore [a true order of sos], Dr "I can diagnose on tv in three seconds" Frist
(what xfer of funds?].
Christian MoralityŽ at its best.
If President George W C Bush43 is the best the Republican Party Animals have,
what is down just two or three notches? Should their sentences be commuted to
capital punishment or should the original sentences be enforced. And should
immediate family members be allowed to look for their loved ones' parts and
pieces?
Good questions.
I warned people and I have warned people: Do what HE says or HE will use
your family for finger food.
Or even if you do........ ;)
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Jinn Lover" |
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| Title: churches are good for bingo games |
05 Feb 2006 05:52:38 PM |
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You are mistaken.
There is no such thing as "Christians" and "Non-Christians".
There are just people... some that are gullible enough to believe
a bunch of pre-internet morons that clearly had no clue.
I call them idiots, not Christians, but then I tend to be blunt.
The religious concepts, though, are useful in poetry.
And most self-described Christians are about as stupid
as most self-described poets. [rap added]
--
AJ - http://clitin.com
(the biggest ***** in pornetry)
<thandarr@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1139168222.792409.175860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for your help, Stoney and Grey, but I wonder why I never get any
Christians to respond to questions like that. I have been askng for a
long time why the Christian agenda in America bears so little
resemblance to anything Jesus of Nazareth ever said.
I can always get non-Christians to answer that Christians can't endorse
public policy based on the teachings of Jesus because they haven't
actually read the scriptures and therefore have little or no idea what
Jesus said. Unfortunately, that may be the right answe.
Now I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means, but assuming that the
actual meaning of the texts somewhat resembles the literal meaning of
the texts, it seems that the Christian agenda would be thing like
feeding the hungry, not abolishing welfare; healing the sick, not
fighting universal health coverage; promoting world peace, not military
superiority; forgiving sinners, not three strikes and you're out.
Obviously I'm wrong, but they'll never tell me why.
Thandarr
.
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| User: "Will Dockery" |
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| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
05 Feb 2006 06:02:04 PM |
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Jinn Lover wrote:
You are mistaken.
There is no such thing as "Christians" and "Non-Christians".
There are just people... some that are gullible enough to believe
a bunch of pre-internet morons that clearly had no clue.
I call them idiots, not Christians, but then I tend to be blunt.
The religious concepts, though, are useful in poetry.
And most self-described Christians are about as stupid
as most self-described poets. [rap added]
Here in Shadowville the Edgewood Shine Club is the hottest of the bingo
nights... great place to pick up older chicks looking for fun, also...
SoHo <http://www.sohobarandgrill.com> had a "bingo night" for a while
during open mic, but the vice squad busted them for it one night.
Thanks for your help, Stoney and Grey, but I wonder why I never get any
Christians to respond to questions like that. I have been askng for a
long time why the Christian agenda in America bears so little
resemblance to anything Jesus of Nazareth ever said.
I can always get non-Christians to answer that Christians can't endorse
public policy based on the teachings of Jesus because they haven't
actually read the scriptures and therefore have little or no idea what
Jesus said. Unfortunately, that may be the right answe.
Now I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means, but assuming that the
actual meaning of the texts somewhat resembles the literal meaning of
the texts, it seems that the Christian agenda would be thing like
feeding the hungry, not abolishing welfare; healing the sick, not
fighting universal health coverage; promoting world peace, not military
superiority; forgiving sinners, not three strikes and you're out.
Obviously I'm wrong, but they'll never tell me why.
The Bible is a replay-plagiarism of previous mythologies and pantheons,
such as Mithras, Osiris, even some Greek and Roman stuff...
--
"Mirror Twins" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/dockeryconleytrio
Tuesday Afternoon Show:
http://www.tuesdayafternoonshow.com
Dream Tears.
Spanish guitar flutters.
It was 1895 or so,
I was in a dream.
I met my bride on Saint George Street,
sweet brown nameless bride.
In the big clapboard city market house,
train station dream place.
Her eyes and smile,
her sparkle of wit, my dream wife.
We sit with happy conversation.
Across the huge room,
I see the drunken unreconstructed rebel.
Swearing and pushing people.
I nod to her
that it's time for us to slide.
We cut through the side room bar area,
crowded ---
I look back,
my heart sinks,
She is not behind me.
I don't see her anywhere,
among these happy ghosts.
I step out on this street,
waiting, looking,
no sign of her.
I step back in.
Coming through the opposite
far entrance I see...
The parade of proud klansmen.
It all becomes clear to me,
they took her.
My sweet smiling nameless bride.
I step back onto Saint George street,
salt breeze and fish smell in the air.
I sit with a group of fellow ghosts,
beaten and grey under an awning,
and I cry --- floods and torrents of tears.
Spanish guitar flutters.
-Will Dockery
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| User: "the messenjah" |
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| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
06 Feb 2006 10:30:18 AM |
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Will Dockery wrote:
Jinn Lover wrote:
You are mistaken.
There is no such thing as "Christians" and "Non-Christians".
There are just people... some that are gullible enough to believe
a bunch of pre-internet morons that clearly had no clue.
I call them idiots, not Christians, but then I tend to be blunt.
The religious concepts, though, are useful in poetry.
And most self-described Christians are about as stupid
as most self-described poets. [rap added]
Here in Shadowville the Edgewood Shine Club is the hottest of the bingo
nights... great place to pick up older chicks looking for fun, also...
You're right, Will. I met a woman who played bingo "religiously". So I
went with her one evening. Women everywhere... Great observation.
Churches are only as good as the people who support them.
SoHo <http://www.sohobarandgrill.com> had a "bingo night" for a while
during open mic, but the vice squad busted them for it one night.
Thanks for your help, Stoney and Grey, but I wonder why I never get any
Christians to respond to questions like that. I have been askng for a
long time why the Christian agenda in America bears so little
resemblance to anything Jesus of Nazareth ever said.
I can always get non-Christians to answer that Christians can't endorse
public policy based on the teachings of Jesus because they haven't
actually read the scriptures and therefore have little or no idea what
Jesus said. Unfortunately, that may be the right answe.
Now I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means, but assuming that the
actual meaning of the texts somewhat resembles the literal meaning of
the texts, it seems that the Christian agenda would be thing like
feeding the hungry, not abolishing welfare; healing the sick, not
fighting universal health coverage; promoting world peace, not military
superiority; forgiving sinners, not three strikes and you're out.
Obviously I'm wrong, but they'll never tell me why.
The Bible is a replay-plagiarism of previous mythologies and pantheons,
such as Mithras, Osiris, even some Greek and Roman stuff...
--
"Mirror Twins" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/dockeryconleytrio
Tuesday Afternoon Show:
http://www.tuesdayafternoonshow.com
Dream Tears.
Spanish guitar flutters.
It was 1895 or so,
I was in a dream.
I met my bride on Saint George Street,
sweet brown nameless bride.
In the big clapboard city market house,
train station dream place.
Her eyes and smile,
her sparkle of wit, my dream wife.
We sit with happy conversation.
Across the huge room,
I see the drunken unreconstructed rebel.
Swearing and pushing people.
I nod to her
that it's time for us to slide.
We cut through the side room bar area,
crowded ---
I look back,
my heart sinks,
She is not behind me.
I don't see her anywhere,
among these happy ghosts.
I step out on this street,
waiting, looking,
no sign of her.
I step back in.
Coming through the opposite
far entrance I see...
The parade of proud klansmen.
It all becomes clear to me,
they took her.
My sweet smiling nameless bride.
I step back onto Saint George street,
salt breeze and fish smell in the air.
I sit with a group of fellow ghosts,
beaten and grey under an awning,
and I cry --- floods and torrents of tears.
Spanish guitar flutters.
-Will Dockery
.
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| User: "Daedalus" |
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| Title: Dockery and Chuck cruise for seniors [Re: churches are good for bingo games |
06 Feb 2006 10:31:39 AM |
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On 6 Feb 2006 08:30:18 -0800, "the messenjah"
<theguyonthebike@veryfast.biz>, wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
Jinn Lover wrote:
You are mistaken.
There is no such thing as "Christians" and "Non-Christians".
There are just people... some that are gullible enough to believe
a bunch of pre-internet morons that clearly had no clue.
I call them idiots, not Christians, but then I tend to be blunt.
The religious concepts, though, are useful in poetry.
And most self-described Christians are about as stupid
as most self-described poets. [rap added]
Here in Shadowville the Edgewood Shine Club is the hottest of the bingo
nights... great place to pick up older chicks looking for fun, also...
You're right, Will. I met a woman who played bingo "religiously". So I
went with her one evening. Women everywhere... Great observation.
Some of 'em could walk too! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAA!!!!
Chucknozzle finally comes clean about his love life. I'm so proud of
you, pedoChuck.
Churches are only as good as the people who support them.
Yours must be a condemned crackhouse then. False Christian scum.
Jade
.
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| User: "the messenjah" |
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| Title: Re: Dockery and Chuck cruise for seniors [Re: churches are good for bingo games |
06 Feb 2006 10:44:37 AM |
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Daedalus wrote:
On 6 Feb 2006 08:30:18 -0800, "the messenjah"
<theguyonthebike@veryfast.biz>, wrote:
Will Dockery wrote:
Jinn Lover wrote:
You are mistaken.
There is no such thing as "Christians" and "Non-Christians".
There are just people... some that are gullible enough to believe
a bunch of pre-internet morons that clearly had no clue.
I call them idiots, not Christians, but then I tend to be blunt.
The religious concepts, though, are useful in poetry.
And most self-described Christians are about as stupid
as most self-described poets. [rap added]
Here in Shadowville the Edgewood Shine Club is the hottest of the bingo
nights... great place to pick up older chicks looking for fun, also...
You're right, Will. I met a woman who played bingo "religiously". So I
went with her one evening. Women everywhere... Great observation.
Some of 'em could walk too! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAA!!!!
Chucknozzle finally comes clean about his love life. I'm so proud of
you, pedoChuck.
Churches are only as good as the people who support them.
Yours must be a condemned crackhouse then. False Christian scum.
Jade
Must be hard to post your nonsense with that big spoon in your fat
hand, huh?
.
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| User: "Dennis M. Hammes" |
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| Title: Re: Dockery and Chuck cruise for seniors [Re: churches are good forbingo games |
07 Feb 2006 02:28:04 PM |
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the messenjah wrote:
Must be hard to post your nonsense with that big spoon in your fat
hand, huh?
Ah. Tommy lets you prop the keyboard on his back, then.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
In Victorian times, a "swell" was a frog in his Prince phase.
By the Depression, "swell" was the frog's *feeling* on being
"kissed" into a Prince. Thus, the Depression.
http://scrawlmark.org
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Dockery and Chuck cruise for seniors [Re: churches are good for bingo games |
06 Feb 2006 08:17:10 PM |
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On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:31, falsie wrote:
False Christian scum.
Your falsie's "address" - netkooks.org - certainly seems accurate but, sigh,
I am not allowed to play with children without a note from your mommie [or
whatever kind of big person you plead to]
Say Good Night, Gracie.
Gray Shockley
------------------
Flatter Jesus or He'll
Torture you in Hell!
- Mrs Betty Bowers
.
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| User: "Dennis M. Hammes" |
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| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
07 Feb 2006 02:26:05 PM |
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the messenjah wrote:
Churches are only as good as the people who support them.
What the hell church are you going to?
These days, even most religions use concrete.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
In Victorian times, a "swell" was a frog in his Prince phase.
By the Depression, "swell" was the frog's *feeling* on being
"kissed" into a Prince. Thus, the Depression.
http://scrawlmark.org
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
05 Feb 2006 09:00:10 PM |
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Jinn,
Maybe you're right, but some people self-identify as Christians. They
know who they are. I don't think I'd get any response if I said, "So
why, idiots, was your Lord wrong about this?" Of course, I didn't get
any response when I asked for Christians, either.
Thandarr
.
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| User: "Tim da Jinn" |
|
| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
05 Feb 2006 09:12:06 PM |
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wrote:
Jinn,
Maybe you're right, but some people self-identify as Christians.
When is a door a jar?
They
know who they are. I don't think I'd get any response if I said, "So
why, idiots, was your Lord wrong about this?" Of course, I didn't get
any response when I asked for Christians, either.
Thandarr
In my experience /none/ of the self-identified really "believe".
For one thing I doubt many people could define "believe".
What it really is.
What they mean is: When they think about /that stuff/
their thought pattern repeats their teaching. They remember
that at one time they /agreed/ with some idiotic concept
or another, and replay that mind rut. Nod their heads.
Reinforced with icons and songs etc...
Millions of people think some fool raised from the dead,
born with no father. Bunk... :)
Be nice if this planet got a clue.
--
AJ - http://clitin.com
(the biggest ***** in pornetry)
Sat.Map: http://tinyurl.com/cjo5b
.
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| User: "Dennis M. Hammes" |
|
| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
06 Feb 2006 10:18:23 AM |
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Tim da Jinn wrote:
thand...@yahoo.com wrote:
Jinn,
Maybe you're right, but some people self-identify as Christians.
When is a door a jar?
When is a yacht a jar?
When it runs a ground.
-- from "A Tale of a Tub: a Drama of Bishop Tommy in Three Half-Facts"
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
In Victorian times, a "swell" was a frog in his Prince phase.
By the Depression, "swell" was the frog's *feeling* on being
"kissed" into a Prince. Thus, the Depression.
http://scrawlmark.org
.
|
|
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| User: "Tim da Jinn" |
|
| Title: Give it up, loser... |
06 Feb 2006 08:55:29 PM |
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Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
When is a yacht a jar?
Funny, wormy-boi.. Of the two of us, I had a boat
to run a ground. (/it/ wasn't a yacht)
Only 24', but hellva fun, and 40mph with a clean hull.
That fucken Sunrunner was my favorite. First love.
That was the boat -- I explored the Delta.
Where's your Sat. map?
--
AJ - http://clitin.com
(the biggest ***** in pornetry)
Sat.Map: http://tinyurl.com/cjo5b
.
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| User: "Dennis M. Hammes" |
|
| Title: Re: Give it up, loser... |
07 Feb 2006 02:31:59 PM |
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Tim da Jinn wrote:
Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
When is a yacht a jar?
Funny, wormy-boi.. Of the two of us, I had a boat
to run a ground. (/it/ wasn't a yacht)
Only 24', but hellva fun, and 40mph with a clean hull.
That fucken Sunrunner was my favorite. First love.
That was the boat -- I explored the Delta.
Where's your Sat. map?
In Lake Wobegon.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
In Victorian times, a "swell" was a frog in his Prince phase.
By the Depression, "swell" was the frog's *feeling* on being
"kissed" into a Prince. Thus, the Depression.
http://scrawlmark.org
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
06 Feb 2006 04:45:24 PM |
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On 5 Feb 2006 19:00:10 -0800, wrote in alt.atheism
Jinn,
Maybe you're right, but some people self-identify as Christians. They
know who they are. I don't think I'd get any response if I said, "So
why, idiots, was your Lord wrong about this?" Of course, I didn't get
any response when I asked for Christians, either.
Of course you didn't, and you won't.
Thandarr
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
|
| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
05 Feb 2006 06:38:38 PM |
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On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 23:52:38 GMT, "Jinn Lover" <ajinnNOTDIS@here.nu> wrote:
You are mistaken.
There is no such thing as "Christians" and "Non-Christians".
There are just people...
What a poetic concept. ;-) Wish more people could see it that way.
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
************************************************
"'True Perfection' would not be sadistic enough
to create anything other than its exact equal."
************************************************
Bonus sig:
"Every Buddha just needs some Buddha to love..."
.
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| User: "Jinn Lover" |
|
| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
05 Feb 2006 07:49:10 PM |
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"Uncle Buck" <UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message news:fe6du1h54nknbrqbbjt4eufl3nrvooi6sg@4ax.com...
On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 23:52:38 GMT, "Jinn Lover" <ajinnNOTDIS@here.nu> wrote:
You are mistaken.
There is no such thing as "Christians" and "Non-Christians".
There are just people...
What a poetic concept. ;-) Wish more people could see it that way.
It is a valid point of view, verified by science
and most children under the age of three.
Then they discover bad poetry. :)
Mick Jagger sings "Can't Get No Satisfaction"
for the Super Bowl half-time, and the world
ends at midnight.
Play Ball!
--
AJ - http://clitin.com
(the biggest ***** in pornetry)
Sat.Map: http://tinyurl.com/cjo5b
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
************************************************
"'True Perfection' would not be sadistic enough
to create anything other than its exact equal."
************************************************
Bonus sig:
"Every Buddha just needs some Buddha to love..."
.
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| User: "Will Dockery" |
|
| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
05 Feb 2006 08:02:36 PM |
|
|
Jinn Lover wrote:
Then they discover bad poetry. :)
Mick Jagger sings "Can't Get No Satisfaction"
for the Super Bowl half-time, and the world
ends at midnight.
Play Ball!
Damn... if I's known the Stones were playing I might have watched it.
--
"Mirror Twins" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/dockeryconleytrio
Tuesday Afternoon Show:
http://www.tuesdayafternoonshow.com
Dream Tears.
Spanish guitar flutters.
It was 1895 or so,
I was in a dream.
I met my bride on Saint George Street,
sweet brown nameless bride.
In the big clapboard city market house,
train station dream place.
Her eyes and smile,
her sparkle of wit, my dream wife.
We sit with happy conversation.
Across the huge room,
I see the drunken unreconstructed rebel.
Swearing and pushing people.
I nod to her
that it's time for us to slide.
We cut through the side room bar area,
crowded ---
I look back,
my heart sinks,
She is not behind me.
I don't see her anywhere,
among these happy ghosts.
I step out on this street,
waiting, looking,
no sign of her.
I step back in.
Coming through the opposite
far entrance I see...
The parade of proud klansmen.
It all becomes clear to me,
they took her.
My sweet smiling nameless bride.
I step back onto Saint George street,
salt breeze and fish smell in the air.
I sit with a group of fellow ghosts,
beaten and grey under an awning,
and I cry --- floods and torrents of tears.
Spanish guitar flutters.
-Will Dockery
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
06 Feb 2006 04:44:39 PM |
|
|
On 5 Feb 2006 18:02:36 -0800, "Will Dockery" <will.dockery@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Jinn Lover wrote:
Then they discover bad poetry. :)
Mick Jagger sings "Can't Get No Satisfaction"
for the Super Bowl half-time, and the world
ends at midnight.
Play Ball!
Damn... if I's known the Stones were playing I might have watched it.
I understand NBC, or whatever it was, censored the lyrics.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
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| User: "Jinn Lover" |
|
| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
06 Feb 2006 05:43:40 PM |
|
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"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message news:s9kfu1lr1mqrvpml6mtp2ujir67n3m9s6b@4ax.com...
On 5 Feb 2006 18:02:36 -0800, "Will Dockery" <will.dockery@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Jinn Lover wrote:
Then they discover bad poetry. :)
Mick Jagger sings "Can't Get No Satisfaction"
for the Super Bowl half-time, and the world
ends at midnight.
Play Ball!
Damn... if I's known the Stones were playing I might have watched it.
I understand NBC, or whatever it was, censored the lyrics.
ABC... they fucked with GoDaddy on their ad.
The censored ones were better.
https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/superbowl06/timeline.asp?isc=gdh0119
--
AJ - http://clitin.com
(the biggest ***** in pornetry)
Sat.Map: http://tinyurl.com/cjo5b
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: churches are good for bingo games |
07 Feb 2006 05:42:14 PM |
|
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On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 23:43:40 GMT, "Jinn Lover" <ajinnNOTDIS@here.nu>
wrote in alt.atheism
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message news:s9kfu1lr1mqrvpml6mtp2ujir67n3m9s6b@4ax.com...
On 5 Feb 2006 18:02:36 -0800, "Will Dockery" <will.dockery@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Jinn Lover wrote:
Then they discover bad poetry. :)
Mick Jagger sings "Can't Get No Satisfaction"
for the Super Bowl half-time, and the world
ends at midnight.
Play Ball!
Damn... if I's known the Stones were playing I might have watched it.
I understand NBC, or whatever it was, censored the lyrics.
ABC... they fucked with GoDaddy on their ad.
Thank you for indicating which networdk.
The censored ones were better.
https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/superbowl06/timeline.asp?isc=gdh0119
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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