| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
01 Jan 2006 06:15:21 AM |
| Object: |
Separation of religion and Constitution |
Smae old theocratic ***** from the Alan Keyes camp
Separation of religion and Constitution
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/meyer/051229
renewamerica.us - Washington,D.C.,USA
Robert Meyer
December 29, 2005
The past year brought about the usual manifold church and state
controversies which are polarizing citizens farther toward opposite ends of
the ideological continuum. This is because the increasing influence of
militant secularism has been highly successful in its goal of reconfiguring
the scope, meaning and intention of the Constitution's First Amendment.
Secularists want you to believe that religious precepts must be surgically
removed from public policy and expression. This is why people like Michael
Newdow have attacked the modern Pledge and the current national motto. Will
it eventually become an act of civil defiance to wish someone a Merry
Christmas?
While a growing number of people understand that the Constitution contains
no such phrase as "separation between church state," numerous people today
believe that this concept embodies the true meaning of the Religious
Clauses, when in fact it does not.
The late Chief Justice William Rehnquist had less than glowing accolades
for this phrase as he wrote in the Wallace v. Jaffree decision " ...no
amount of repetition of historical errors in judicial opinions can make the
errors true. The 'wall of separation between church and State' is a
metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor which has proved useless as a
guide to judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned." In
addition, I would point out that this phrase falls prey to the abuses of
subjective ambiguity.
James Madison's original draft for the First Amendment was "The civil
rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship,
nor shall any national religion be established (my emphasis), nor shall the
full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext,
infringed." This clearly shows that "establishment of religion" was more
narrowly defined as installing a national church.
Jefferson's "wall of separation'" metaphor was merely an articulation of
essential federalism, as he clarifies in his second inaugural address: "In
matters of religion I have considered that its free exercise is placed by
the Constitution independent of the powers of the General Government. I
have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious
exercises suited to it, but have left them, as the Constitution found them,
under the direction and discipline of the church or state authorities
acknowledged by the several religious societies...."
Secularists know that Jefferson, who was serving an ambassadorship in Paris
during the framing of the Constitution, was heavily influenced by European
rationalism. They therefore wish to closely align the meaning of the First
Amendment predominately with the views of Jefferson, binding both his
theological perspective and constitutional views into one seamless garment.
However, historian Perry Miller, himself an atheist, has this to say about
Jefferson's permeating influence on American culture. "Actually European
Deism was an exotic plant in America, which never struck roots in the soil.
'Rationalism' was never so widespread as liberal historians, or those
fascinated with Jefferson have imagined."
Perhaps the best analysis as to the definition of "establishment" can be
traced in the words and history of Washington's first Day of Thanksgiving
Proclamation.
"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly
to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress
have, by their joint committee, requested me to recommend to the people of
the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed
by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of
Almighty God..."
It should be noted that this proclamation commemorated the framing of the
First Amendment. Washington was the president of the very Constitutional
Convention which drafted it. First it is obvious that acknowledging God is
not establishment — Washington calls it a duty. Next Washington recommends
a religious practice — a day of thanksgiving and prayer. Therefore, the
recommendation of a religious practice was not counted as establishment.
Lastly, a request by Congress isn't tantamount to Congress making a law
establishing a religion.
For those who habitually warn us about the dangers of mixing politics and
religion, I give you the comments about this subject from Washington's
Farewell Address.
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man
claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great
pillars of human happiness — these firmest props of the duties of men and
citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect
and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with
private and public felicity...And let us with caution indulge the
supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may
be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar
structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national
morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
So much of what is claimed to violate separation of church and state, is
nothing more than the expressions of disgruntled secularists, who think
that the Bill of Rights gives to them freedom from religion.
Robert Meyer is a hardy soul who hails from the Cheesehead country of the
upper midwest. Robert is known by his opponents as a "clever rhetorician"
who often exposes the fallacies of knee-jerk arguments presented in local
papers. Seeking to develop precepts for every aspect of life — based on a
conservative Christian worldview — Robert often gleans inspiration from
looking off his back deck, over the scenic Fox river and recalling the wise
counsel of those who mentored him. To bark about this editorial, contact
Robert at Junkyarddog58@msn.com.
***************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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| User: "classicliberal2" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of religion and Constitution |
02 Jan 2006 01:19:21 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 07:15:21 -0500, wrote:
Smae old theocratic ***** from the Alan Keyes camp
Yes, and it adds even more HUGE historical blunders to
the regular laundry list of them, as well: Meyer states that
the convention that drafted what became the U.S.
Constitution also drafted the 1st Amendment!
Washington's 1789 proclamation of a Day of
Thanksgiving is referenced, by Meyer, as the "best
analysis as to the definition" of that amendment, even
though the amendment hadn't even been ratified by a
single state when Washington made that proclamation,
and wouldn't become part of the Constitution for another
two years.
And so on.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of religion and Constitution |
09 Jan 2006 09:53:16 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 06:15:21 -0600, wrote:
Smae old theocratic ***** from the Alan Keyes camp
Separation of religion and Constitution
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/meyer/051229
renewamerica.us - Washington,D.C.,USA
Robert Meyer
December 29, 2005
The past year brought about the usual manifold church and state
controversies which are polarizing citizens farther toward opposite ends of
the ideological continuum. This is because the increasing influence of
militant secularism has been highly successful in its goal of reconfiguring
the scope, meaning and intention of the Constitution's First Amendment.
Secularists want you to believe that religious precepts must be surgically
removed from public policy and expression. This is why people like Michael
Newdow have attacked the modern Pledge and the current national motto. Will
it eventually become an act of civil defiance to wish someone a Merry
Christmas?
While a growing number of people understand that the Constitution contains
no such phrase as "separation between church state," numerous people today
believe that this concept embodies the true meaning of the Religious
Clauses, when in fact it does not.
The late Chief Justice William Rehnquist had less than glowing accolades
for this phrase as he wrote in the Wallace v. Jaffree decision " ...no
amount of repetition of historical errors in judicial opinions can make the
errors true. The 'wall of separation between church and State' is a
metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor which has proved useless as a
guide to judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned." In
addition, I would point out that this phrase falls prey to the abuses of
subjective ambiguity.
#############################
Wallace v. Jaffree
472 U.S. 38 (1985)
Docket Number: 83-812
Abstract
Argued:
December 4, 1984
Decided:
June 4, 1985
Subjects:
First Amendment: Parochiaid
Facts of the Case
An Alabama law authorized teachers to conduct regular religious
prayer services and activities in school classrooms during the
school day. Three of Jaffree's children attended public schools in
Mobile.
Question Presented
Did Alabama law violate the First Amendment's Establishment Clause?
Conclusion
Yes. The Court determined the constitutionality of Alabama's prayer
and meditation statute by applying the secular purpose test, which
asked if the state's actual purpose was to endorse or disapprove of
religion. The Court held that Alabama's passage of the prayer and
meditation statute was not only a deviation from the state's duty
to maintain absolute neutrality toward religion, but was an
affirmative endorsement of religion. As such, the statute clearly
lacked any secular purpose as it sought to establish religion in
public schools, thereby violating the First Amendment's
Establishment Clause.
Copyright 1996-2005 by Jerry Goldman
#############################
James Madison's original draft for the First Amendment was "The civil
rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship,
nor shall any national religion be established (my emphasis), nor shall the
full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext,
infringed." This clearly shows that "establishment of religion" was more
narrowly defined as installing a national church.
Jefferson's "wall of separation'" metaphor was merely an articulation of
essential federalism, as he clarifies in his second inaugural address: "In
matters of religion I have considered that its free exercise is placed by
the Constitution independent of the powers of the General Government. I
have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious
exercises suited to it, but have left them, as the Constitution found them,
under the direction and discipline of the church or state authorities
acknowledged by the several religious societies...."
Secularists know that Jefferson, who was serving an ambassadorship in Paris
during the framing of the Constitution, was heavily influenced by European
rationalism. They therefore wish to closely align the meaning of the First
Amendment predominately with the views of Jefferson, binding both his
theological perspective and constitutional views into one seamless garment.
However, historian Perry Miller, himself an atheist, has this to say about
Jefferson's permeating influence on American culture. "Actually European
Deism was an exotic plant in America, which never struck roots in the soil.
'Rationalism' was never so widespread as liberal historians, or those
fascinated with Jefferson have imagined."
Perhaps the best analysis as to the definition of "establishment" can be
traced in the words and history of Washington's first Day of Thanksgiving
Proclamation.
"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly
to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress
have, by their joint committee, requested me to recommend to the people of
the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed
by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of
Almighty God..."
It should be noted that this proclamation commemorated the framing of the
First Amendment. Washington was the president of the very Constitutional
Convention which drafted it. First it is obvious that acknowledging God is
not establishment — Washington calls it a duty. Next Washington recommends
a religious practice — a day of thanksgiving and prayer. Therefore, the
recommendation of a religious practice was not counted as establishment.
Lastly, a request by Congress isn't tantamount to Congress making a law
establishing a religion.
For those who habitually warn us about the dangers of mixing politics and
religion, I give you the comments about this subject from Washington's
Farewell Address.
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man
claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great
pillars of human happiness — these firmest props of the duties of men and
citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect
and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with
private and public felicity...And let us with caution indulge the
supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may
be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar
structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national
morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
So much of what is claimed to violate separation of church and state, is
nothing more than the expressions of disgruntled secularists, who think
that the Bill of Rights gives to them freedom from religion.
Robert Meyer is a hardy soul who hails from the Cheesehead country of the
upper midwest. Robert is known by his opponents as a "clever rhetorician"
who often exposes the fallacies of knee-jerk arguments presented in local
papers. Seeking to develop precepts for every aspect of life — based on a
conservative Christian worldview — Robert often gleans inspiration from
looking off his back deck, over the scenic Fox river and recalling the wise
counsel of those who mentored him. To bark about this editorial, contact
Robert at Junkyarddog58@msn.com.
***************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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