| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
19 Dec 2005 01:14:15 PM |
| Object: |
Separation of sanity and state |
Separation of sanity and state
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/021188.html
World Magazine Blog - Chicago,IL,USA
Misunderstanding the principle of separation of church and state continues
to produce absurd results. After receiving a complaint from the ACLU, the
town of Bellingham, Massachusetts decided to end the practice of snow
plowing church parking lots even though the service had been performed “as
long as there have been churches in the town.” Another complaint, this time
by a parent of a public school child, caused a Madison, Wisconsin school
district to end field trips to Salvation Army sites where students would
ring bells to help solicit donations. "Contributions by students to the
community are very valuable," said school district spokesman Ken Syke, "but
we have to keep that separation [of church and state]."
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "Les Hemmings" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state |
19 Dec 2005 02:36:13 PM |
|
|
<buckeye-elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:tj1eq15cmhc9g4p0vuld85ovsdmi3sa4gl@4ax.com...
Separation of sanity and state
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/021188.html
World Magazine Blog - Chicago,IL,USA
Misunderstanding the principle of separation of church and state continues
to produce absurd results. After receiving a complaint from the ACLU, the
town of Bellingham, Massachusetts decided to end the practice of snow
ploughing church parking lots even though the service had been performed
"as
long as there have been churches in the town."
Perhaps they should prey that god doesn't snow on their church car
parks... heh heh
Anyway, you christians reckon hard work reaps it's reward in the
afterlife ( mankind's biggest con played on mankind! ) so you should all be
happy to dig the snow off the car parks with your bare hands to show how
holy you all are! Not on a sunday of course, your all to busy grovelling to
your mythical being...
"Oh lord we are not worthy... we are such snivelling scum that we dare
not
even sniff the lords loin cloth lest we get smote down.... Oh lord, in our
heinous snot-gobbling servitude we beg of you to wipe the hanky of god
under the dripping nostril that this church surely is.... etc etc..."
That's about the tone isn't it?
Les
--
Remove Frontal Lobes to reply.
http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/
"...The people can always be brought to the bidding of the
leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being
attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and
exposing the country to greater danger "
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
.
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hemmings" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state |
19 Dec 2005 02:39:09 PM |
|
|
"Les Hemmings" <les.frontalclaire@lobesvirgin.net> wrote in message
news:40ojtpF1auqdrU1@individual.net...
Perhaps they should prey that god doesn't snow on their church car
parks... heh heh
Perhaps i should have used "pray".... but I kinda like the first
one, describes what you do to our kids this time of year..
Les
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state |
20 Dec 2005 11:40:27 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:39:09 -0000, "Les Hemmings"
<les.frontalclaire@lobesvirgin.net> wrote:
"Les Hemmings" <les.frontalclaire@lobesvirgin.net> wrote in message
news:40ojtpF1auqdrU1@individual.net...
Perhaps they should prey that god doesn't snow on their church car
parks... heh heh
Perhaps i should have used "pray".... but I kinda like the first
one, describes what you do to our kids this time of year..
You got it right the first time.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state |
20 Dec 2005 11:40:03 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:36:13 -0000, "Les Hemmings"
<les.frontalclaire@lobesvirgin.net> wrote:
<buckeye-elo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:tj1eq15cmhc9g4p0vuld85ovsdmi3sa4gl@4ax.com...
Separation of sanity and state
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/021188.html
World Magazine Blog - Chicago,IL,USA
Misunderstanding the principle of separation of church and state continues
to produce absurd results. After receiving a complaint from the ACLU, the
town of Bellingham, Massachusetts decided to end the practice of snow
ploughing church parking lots even though the service had been performed
"as
long as there have been churches in the town."
Perhaps they should prey that god doesn't snow on their church car
parks... heh heh
Anyway, you christians reckon hard work reaps it's reward in the
afterlife ( mankind's biggest con played on mankind! ) so you should all be
happy to dig the snow off the car parks with your bare hands to show how
holy you all are! Not on a sunday of course, your all to busy grovelling to
your mythical being...
"Oh lord we are not worthy... we are such snivelling scum that we dare
not
even sniff the lords loin cloth lest we get smote down.... Oh lord, in our
heinous snot-gobbling servitude we beg of you to wipe the hanky of god
under the dripping nostril that this church surely is.... etc etc..."
That's about the tone isn't it?
Still too conservative.
This young lady gets it right:
What do I dislike about theism?...Let me count the ways...
I dislike the hypocrisy,
the corruption,
the greed
and the lies.
I dislike the veneration of ignorance,
the glorification of idiocy,
the wild-eyed hatred of progress
and the fear of education, which send the faithful shrieking,
vampire-like, from the light of knowledge.
I dislike the way in which prejudice
is passed off as piety.
The way superstition is peddled as wisdom.
The way intolerance is raised to the lofty heights
of "Truth".
I dislike how hatred is taught as love,
how fear is instilled as kindness,
how slavery is pressed as freedom,
and how contempt for life is dressed up and adored as spirituality.
I dislike the shackles religions place on the mind,
corrupting, twisting and crushing the spirit
until the believer has been brought down to a suitable state
of worthlessness.
So lost and self-loathing, so bereft of hope or pride,
that they can look into the hallucinated face of their imaginary
oppressor
and feel unbounded love and gratitude for the additional suffering
it has declined,
as yet,
to visit upon them.
I dislike people's need for a communal delusion,
like drug addicts who unite just to share the same needle.
I dislike the way reason is reviled as a vice
and reality is decreed to be a matter of convenience.
The way common sense and ordinary human decency
get re-named "holy law" and advertised as the sole province
of the faithful.
I dislike religions' wholesale theft of any number
of ancient mythologies,
only to turn around and proclaim
how "unique" their doctrine is.
I dislike how intelligence is held as suspect
and inquiry is reviled as a high crime.
I dislike the pillaging of the impoverished,
the extortion of the gullible,
the manipulation of the ignorant
and the domination of the weak.
I dislike the invention of sins
for the satisfaction of those who desire to punish.
I dislike the demonization of unbelievers,
The ill-concealed hate of proselytizers,
The hysterical rants of holy rollers,
The wigged-out warnings of psychic healers,
The dismantling of public education via religious school vouchers,
The erosion of civil rights by theocratic right-wingers,
The righteous wrath of gun-toting true believers,
The destruction wrought by holy warriors,
The blood-drenched fatwas of ayatollas,
and the apocalyptic prophesies of unmedicated messiahs.
Most of all, though, I dislike the certain knowledge
that religion,
in one grotesque form or other,
will be with us so long as there is a single dark, cobwebbed corner
of the human imagination
that a believer can stuff a god into.
Alikhat
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hemmings" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state |
20 Dec 2005 12:14:30 PM |
|
|
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:v7ggq1l1erj0f0d7be11h7fq16ovh91p6q@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:36:13 -0000, "Les Hemmings"
Still too conservative.
This young lady gets it right:
What do I dislike about theism?...Let me count the ways...
I dislike the hypocrisy,
Most of all, though, I dislike the certain knowledge
that religion,
in one grotesque form or other,
will be with us so long as there is a single dark, cobwebbed corner
of the human imagination
that a believer can stuff a god into.
Alikhat
She's good! Tempted to hog enough bandwidth to use that as a sig.....
is she a poster in here?
Les
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state |
21 Dec 2005 08:59:35 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:14:30 -0000, "Les Hemmings"
<les.frontalclaire@lobesvirgin.net> wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:v7ggq1l1erj0f0d7be11h7fq16ovh91p6q@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:36:13 -0000, "Les Hemmings"
Still too conservative.
This young lady gets it right:
What do I dislike about theism?...Let me count the ways...
I dislike the hypocrisy,
Most of all, though, I dislike the certain knowledge
that religion,
in one grotesque form or other,
will be with us so long as there is a single dark, cobwebbed corner
of the human imagination
that a believer can stuff a god into.
Alikhat
She's good! Tempted to hog enough bandwidth to use that as a sig.....
is she a poster in here?
From time to time, yes. Nice lady.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "fred" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state; fails 10th A. test; vague constitutional reference |
19 Dec 2005 01:59:24 PM |
|
|
alt.education removed.
buckeye-elo@nospam.net wrote:
Separation of sanity and state
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/021188.html
World Magazine Blog - Chicago,IL,USA
Misunderstanding the principle of separation of church and state continues
to produce absurd results. After receiving a complaint from the ACLU, the
town of Bellingham, Massachusetts decided to end the practice of snow
plowing church parking lots even though the service had been performed "as
long as there have been churches in the town." Another complaint, this ti=
me
by a parent of a public school child, caused a Madison, Wisconsin school
district to end field trips to Salvation Army sites where students would
ring bells to help solicit donations. "Contributions by students to the
community are very valuable," said school district spokesman Ken Syke, "b=
ut
we have to keep that separation [of church and state]."
If the town of Bellingham, Massachusetts chooses to make itself a slave
to the ACLU's perverted interpretation of the Constitution, then that's
their problem. It's incredible that the ACLU gets upset about snow
plowing church parking lots when Thomas Jefferson, Mr. "wall of
separation" himself, not only regularly attended worship service held
in the hall of the House of Representatives at the Nation's Capitol,
but also authorized the US Marine Band to provide music for worship
services held in other government buildings as well.
The above post also fails the 10th Amendment test:
"Article 10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the
States respectively, or to the people."
When the 1st and 10th Amendments are considered together, it is
reasonable to conclude that the 10th reserved the power to legislate
religion to the States since the 1st explicitly prohibited this power
only to Congress (federal government; aka United States). Church-state
separation discussions which fail to mention the 10th are based on the
Court's scandalous interpretation of the establishment clause in the
Everson opinion:
"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at
least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a
church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all
religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor
influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his
will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No
person can be punished for entertain- [330 U.S. 1, 16] ing or
professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or
non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to
support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be
called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion.
Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly,
participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and
vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment
of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between
Church and State.' Reynolds v. United States, supra, 98 U.S. at page
164." -- Everson v. Board of Education of Ewing TP. 1947.
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS =B7 Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why =
"a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisne=
r,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state; fails 10th A. test; vague constitutional reference |
19 Dec 2005 05:11:37 PM |
|
|
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135022364.547081.137860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
alt.education removed.
buckeye-elo@nospam.net wrote:
Separation of sanity and state
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/021188.html
World Magazine Blog - Chicago,IL,USA
Misunderstanding the principle of separation of church and state continues
to produce absurd results. After receiving a complaint from the ACLU, the
town of Bellingham, Massachusetts decided to end the practice of snow
plowing church parking lots even though the service had been performed "as
long as there have been churches in the town." Another complaint, this
time
by a parent of a public school child, caused a Madison, Wisconsin school
district to end field trips to Salvation Army sites where students would
ring bells to help solicit donations. "Contributions by students to the
community are very valuable," said school district spokesman Ken Syke,
"but
we have to keep that separation [of church and state]."
If the town of Bellingham, Massachusetts chooses to make itself a slave
to the ACLU's perverted interpretation of the Constitution, then that's
their problem.
The Churches are already tax-free. They can plow their own damn parking
lots.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "fred" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state; fails 10th A. test; vague constitutional reference |
19 Dec 2005 07:23:55 PM |
|
|
Denis Loubet wrote:
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135022364.547081.137860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
alt.education removed.
buckeye-elo@nospam.net wrote:
Separation of sanity and state
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/021188.html
World Magazine Blog - Chicago,IL,USA
Misunderstanding the principle of separation of church and state continues
to produce absurd results. After receiving a complaint from the ACLU, the
town of Bellingham, Massachusetts decided to end the practice of snow
plowing church parking lots even though the service had been performed "as
long as there have been churches in the town." Another complaint, this
time
by a parent of a public school child, caused a Madison, Wisconsin school
district to end field trips to Salvation Army sites where students would
ring bells to help solicit donations. "Contributions by students to the
community are very valuable," said school district spokesman Ken Syke,
"but
we have to keep that separation [of church and state]."
If the town of Bellingham, Massachusetts chooses to make itself a slave
to the ACLU's perverted interpretation of the Constitution, then that's
their problem.
The Churches are already tax-free. They can plow their own damn parking
lots.
Good point!
Although this is not an establishment clause issue like the ACLU wants
everybody to believe, Churches shouldn't be receiving public services
that they are not paying for if this is the case.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state; fails 10th A. test; vague constitutional reference |
19 Dec 2005 02:22:44 PM |
|
|
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
:|alt.education removed.
Chicken *****
Alt.education restored
:|If the town of Bellingham, Massachusetts chooses to make itself a slave
:|to the ACLU's perverted interpretation of the Constitution, then that's
:|their problem. It's incredible that the ACLU gets upset about snow
:|plowing church parking lots when Thomas Jefferson, Mr. "wall of
:|separation" himself, not only regularly attended worship service held
:|in the hall of the House of Representatives at the Nation's Capitol,
:|but also authorized the US Marine Band to provide music for worship
:|services held in other government buildings as well.
:|
:|The above post also fails the 10th Amendment test:
:|
:|"Article 10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the
:|Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the
:|States respectively, or to the people."
:|
:|When the 1st and 10th Amendments are considered together, it is
:|reasonable to conclude that the 10th reserved the power to legislate
:|religion to the States since the 1st explicitly prohibited this power
:|only to Congress (federal government; aka United States). Church-state
:|separation discussions which fail to mention the 10th are based on the
:|Court's scandalous interpretation of the establishment clause in the
:|Everson opinion:
:|
:|"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at
:|least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a
:|church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all
:|religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor
:|influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his
:|will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No
:|person can be punished for entertain- [330 U.S. 1, 16] ing or
:|professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or
:|non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to
:|support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be
:|called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion.
:|Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly,
:|participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and
:|vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment
:|of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between
:|Church and State.' Reynolds v. United States, supra, 98 U.S. at page
:|164." -- Everson v. Board of Education of Ewing TP. 1947.
Radicals in Robes (insignt into fred )
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/c361b42ef2cf861d?hl=en&
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q3225275C
******************************************************************************************
Evidence that shoots down just about every bit of fred's propaganda
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/290a32cf157dec89?hl=en&
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R2651235C
Topics covered in the above that shoot downs fred's propaganda:
Differentiating the Free Exercise and Establishment Clauses
*************************************************************************
James Madison on Separation of Church and State
Direct references to separation to be found in the writings of James
Madison
**************************************************************************
What legal standing did the Kentucky Resolutions have?
Hint: none!!!!!!!!
***********************************************************************
Meet another theocrat Meet Alan L. Keyes
Home site
------------------------------------
Religious Liberty as defined by him (alan Keyes)
------------------------------------
Alan Keyes / Alan Dershowitz
Does Organized Religion Hold Answers to the Problems of the 21st Century?
Debate, September 27, 2000
-------------------------------------
Alan Keyes vs
On the establishment of religion: What the Constitution really says
August 26, 2003
-------------------------------------------
Alans Keyes Positions on Particular Issues
***************************************************************************
Comments by Bob LeChevalier (alt.education guy fred wants to avoid)
****************************************************************************
ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE:, EVERSON & FOOTNOTES TO EVERSON
****************************************************************************
some commentary by Adenoid-Hin
Christ sake fred
"Essays" aren't law.
Citizens are afforded equal protection of law.
States cannot address constitutional questions that affect ALL
citizens and "interpretations" other than the USSC are bogus.
Government (state, local, federal) cannot set up, endorse, promote,
pander to, wink at, or in any way favor religious stupidity as policy.
Whether "Jefferson said" so or not, the interpretaton by the USSC (the
ONLY entity allowed to do so) has established that doctrine
generations ago.
Offering "essays", "writings", or other non-relevant, extraneous crap
won't alter the fact.
***********************************************************
The Nineteenth Century Supreme Court and “Republican Protestantism”
************************************************************
The Tenth Amendment was altered so that it really isn't as clear as many
people seem to think
(1) THE TENTH AMENDMENT
(2) THE BILL OF RIGHTS & THE TENTH AMENDMENT,
(3) THERE HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTS TO UNDERMINE WHAT THE FOUNDERS PASSED BY
ADDING THE WORD EXPRESSLY TO THE TENTH AMENDMENT: THE BATTLE OVER THE TENTH
AMENDMENT: OPENING A SECOND FRONT
************************************************************
Amend. To improve. To change for the better by
removing defects or faults. To change, correct,
revise. See Amendment.
Amendment. To change or modify for the better.
To alter by modification, deletion, or addition.
SOURCE: Black's Law Dictionary, Abridged Sixth Edition Centennial Edition
(1891-1991) West Publishing (1991) p 52
********************************************************
I said it was modified, not revoked. The 1st reads, "Congress shall
make no law ...". The 14th reads "No State shall make ... any law ..."
The 14th modifies the 1st to effectively read, "Congress and the
States shall make no law ..."
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:55:12 -0500
From: Josh Rosenbluth to fred
*****************************************************
The Williamsburg Charter, 1988
A Reaffirmation of the First Amendment
********************************************************************
Fourteenth Amendment, Selective Incorporation
***************************************************************
The following list shows the provisions in the Bill of Rights that have
been incorporated via the 14th Amendment:
[list snipped]
*****************************************************************
JEFFERSON DIDN'T CREATE CHURCH STATE SEPARAITON
However, Jefferson didn't create church state separation:
The principle of church state separation was embodied in the unamended
constitution long before Jefferson wrote a word to the Danbury Baptist
Assoc.
Study Guide: Separation of Church and State - Indepth
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/studygd0.htm
That honor belongs far more to James Madison
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.education/msg/f337c95be318d68b?hl=en&
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2021275C
*******************************************************************************************
Everson v. Bd of Ed defined the Establishment Clasue.
Here are the footnotes that the court used to pen the definition:
FOOTNOTES TO EVERSON v. BD OF ED.
http://snurl.com/2pro
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state; fails 10th A. test; vague constitutional reference |
19 Dec 2005 11:25:03 PM |
|
|
In <1135022364.547081.137860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "fred"
<clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
The above post also fails the 10th Amendment test:
There are more than 10 amendments. No, really, there *are.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We need everything you've got"
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R2726554C
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dana" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state; fails 10th A. test; vague constitutional reference |
20 Dec 2005 07:36:37 PM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:sOydnbqJKZYxCDrenZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@megapath.net...
In <1135022364.547081.137860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "fred"
<clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
The above post also fails the 10th Amendment test:
There are more than 10 amendments. No, really, there *are.
Does not matter, the federal constitution only applies to the federal
government.
The people have never had a Constitutional convention changing our form of
government, and the separation of powers between the states and the feds.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state; fails 10th A. test; vague constitutional reference |
20 Dec 2005 08:21:50 PM |
|
|
In <11qhbvos8l16989@corp.supernews.com>, "Dana" <whoya@whoya.com> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:sOydnbqJKZYxCDrenZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@megapath.net...
In <1135022364.547081.137860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "fred"
<clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
The above post also fails the 10th Amendment test:
There are more than 10 amendments. No, really, there *are.
Does not matter, the federal constitution only applies to the federal
government.
The people have never had a Constitutional convention changing our form of
government, and the separation of powers between the states and the feds.
The 14th was passed to explicitly give Congress the power to enforce the
rights of citizens within the states. Where do you think things such as
the Voting Rights Act came from? Space?
Sorry but we changed the Constitution on this issue well over a century
ago...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We need everything you've got"
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R2726554C
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dana" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state; fails 10th A. test; vague constitutional reference |
20 Dec 2005 08:52:02 PM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:koGdnQSdbZynITXe4p2dnA@megapath.net...
In <11qhbvos8l16989@corp.supernews.com>, "Dana" <whoya@whoya.com> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:sOydnbqJKZYxCDrenZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@megapath.net...
In <1135022364.547081.137860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "fred"
<clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
The above post also fails the 10th Amendment test:
There are more than 10 amendments. No, really, there *are.
Does not matter, the federal constitution only applies to the federal
government.
The people have never had a Constitutional convention changing our form
of
government, and the separation of powers between the states and the
feds.
The 14th was passed to explicitly give Congress the power to enforce the
rights of citizens within the states.
The Congress was never given any power to interfere within the states.
The Congress is limited by the federal Constitution on what it can and
cannot do. The 14th did not expand the powers of the Congress in regards to
the states.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Separation of sanity and state; fails 10th A. test; vague constitutional reference |
19 Dec 2005 04:37:34 PM |
|
|
On 19 Dec 2005 11:59:24 -0800, "fred"
<clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
When the 1st and 10th Amendments are considered together, it is
reasonable to conclude that the 10th reserved the power to legislate
religion to the States since the 1st explicitly prohibited this power
only to Congress
Resolved by the 14th amendment
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
