| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
09 Dec 2004 12:15:39 PM |
| Object: |
Serious God questions |
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion? Is
the fear of death so great that most people need to believe in a glorious
after life? Religious belief and faith is one of the most illogical and
unsubstantiated beliefs one can imagine.
There are hundreds of religions each believing in their own God and
rejecting others. Which is the real or true God?
If God existed and wanted us to adore and obey him he certainly would make
at least a minimal attempt to convince us of his existence and authenticity.
There are thousands of Gods and religious beliefs. There are many religions
with elaborate documentation claiming their authenticity. Which is the true
God? And why doesn't the true God go on international TV and demonstrate
that HE is the real God? Why doesn't he smite all the other fake Gods to
eliminate the confusion and false beliefs?
Even within the Christian religion there are dozens of different sects with
different beliefs.
Christians believe that they are created in the image of God and that God
consists of the trinity of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. And
God ever was and always will be. Does this make any sense at all? God is
justified by the claim that the Universe could not just happen or always
have existed. It had to have a God creator. Than who or what created God?
And why could only God "always have existed" and not the Universe?
If they ever were, why does the son need a father? If the Son of God needed
to be put on earth to teach us to obey him and convert us to his religion
why was it done in such a convoluted and grossly inefficient, grossly
brutish and ineffective manner? Why did he have to be born of a virgin
mother, be raised as a normal child and work as a carpenter until he was in
his thirties and only then start informing a VERY small part of the worlds
population on what they had to do to be saved from hell or purgatory? And
then to cap it off, what was the purpose of having God nailed to a cross
with two criminals to get him back to heaven? Why did not the Son of God
just come to earth to preach to all of us from the beginning of mankind to
the present? Jesus's preaching reached only a VERY small portion of the
world population. Why did he wait until more than 100,000 years after the
origin of humans on earth to come down and save them? Why condemn most of
the world population to purgatory or hell because Gods preaching did not
reach them? Why does he communicate through thousands of preachers of
varying degrees of veracity and beliefs?
Why has his message been delivered so poorly that only about a quarter of
the world understands his religion and the other three-quarters honestly
believe in other religions, Gods and creators? If man, Gods creation can
communicate world wide with radio, telephones and TV why can't God use
equally or more effective means of communication?
Why would God prohibit soles in heaven from communicating with their
relatives and friends on earth? What would Gods purpose be for this
restriction and secrecy? Would not God have more loyal followers if he
permitted people in the after life to tell us presently on earth how
wonderful the after life is for those that follow gods precepts?
And what is the function and purpose of the Holy Ghost? We never hear much
of him or his functions?
God is presented as all good and our savior. Why is he punishing billions
of people because Adam and Eve took a bight out of the forbidden fruit?
These billions had NOTHING to do with this so-called original sin! Why would
God create this kind of situation when all he had to do was create people
free from sin and temptation in the first place? Does he enjoy playing
painful games with his creations?
If God created us in his image and is all merciful, why does he create
totally innocent children born deformed, blind, deaf, and mentally
defective? Why does he have them die at an early age of disease and
accidents?
With omnipotence and omniscience at his disposal, why does God create so
many imperfections and diseases in all his creations?
In the last few centuries as the result of mans improvements in diet, cures
for diseases and improved medical care, man has extended life spans from
less than 40 years to almost 80 years.
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer, healthier, more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of people have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions now exist in
heaven or any after life.
The evidence is rather strong that all of the God myths and religions are
creations of man to mollify his fear of the unknown and death.
--
Bill
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 05:41:42 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion?
Is the fear of death so great that most people need to believe in a
glorious after life? Religious belief and faith is one of the most
illogical and unsubstantiated beliefs one can imagine.
There are hundreds of religions each believing in their own God and
rejecting others. Which is the real or true God?
No book or body of teaching can encompass the totality of God. Yet many
(if not all) attempts to seek Him and to express the results of that
search have at least partially captured truth. And, if we read carefully
the revelations that are purported to be from Him, we find that sometimes
things actually work.
If God existed and wanted us to adore and obey him he certainly would
make at least a minimal attempt to convince us of his existence and
authenticity.
Apparently He does not wish to be apprehended like a proof in Euclid or a
flat scientific observation of fact, but rather to be taken on faith. On
the other hand, He does offer some ways in which that faith can be built
upon and which, if followed will result in at least personal evidence of
His existence.
There are thousands of Gods and religious beliefs. There are many
religions with elaborate documentation claiming their authenticity.
Actually, there can (by definition) be only ONE Supreme Being. He (She,
It?} can, as the Christian theology has shown, manifest more than one
persona, but must still retain a central unity of being in order to be
THE Supreme Being.
Which is the true God? And why doesn't the true God go on
international TV and demonstrate that HE is the real God? Why doesn't
he smite all the other fake Gods to eliminate the confusion and false
beliefs?
Ask Him? Ask and ye shall receive. Knock and it will be opened to you!
Even within the Christian religion there are dozens of different sects
with different beliefs.
Yep...and some of the differences are even important, though a very broad
group of Christians do accept the basic provisions of the Nicene Creed.
Christians believe that they are created in the image of God and that
God consists of the trinity of God the Father, the Son and the Holy
Ghost. And God ever was and always will be. Does this make any sense
at all? God is justified by the claim that the Universe could not just
happen or always have existed. It had to have a God creator. Than who
or what created God? And why could only God "always have existed" and
not the Universe?
God's existence transcends all dimensional constraints of time or space.
If one reads scripture carefully in the original languages, the passages
commonly translated in English to mean "God created" pretty much
invariably state "God is creating."
If they ever were, why does the son need a father? If the Son of God
needed to be put on earth to teach us to obey him and convert us to
his religion why was it done in such a convoluted and grossly
inefficient, grossly brutish and ineffective manner? Why did he have
to be born of a virgin mother, be raised as a normal child and work as
a carpenter until he was in his thirties and only then start informing
a VERY small part of the worlds population on what they had to do to
be saved from hell or purgatory? And then to cap it off, what was the
purpose of having God nailed to a cross with two criminals to get him
back to heaven? Why did not the Son of God just come to earth to
preach to all of us from the beginning of mankind to the present?
Jesus's preaching reached only a VERY small portion of the world
population. Why did he wait until more than 100,000 years after the
origin of humans on earth to come down and save them? Why condemn
most of the world population to purgatory or hell because Gods
preaching did not reach them? Why does he communicate through
thousands of preachers of varying degrees of veracity and beliefs?
Actually, the job of a true priest of God is to show you how to establish
your own channel of communion. But there are a TON of people who would
like to situate themselves between you and God.
Why has his message been delivered so poorly that only about a quarter
of the world understands his religion and the other three-quarters
honestly believe in other religions, Gods and creators? If man, Gods
creation can communicate world wide with radio, telephones and TV why
can't God use equally or more effective means of communication?
I'm sure He does. I use the tools that He gave ME specifically to use.
Why would God prohibit soles in heaven from communicating with their
relatives and friends on earth? What would Gods purpose be for this
restriction and secrecy? Would not God have more loyal followers if
he permitted people in the after life to tell us presently on earth
how wonderful the after life is for those that follow gods precepts?
I can think of a lot of complications with that idea right off the top of
my head. Perhaps those in heaven DO hear us and communicate occasionally
with those who listen. More likely they are too busy communing with God
to pay us mortals a whole LOT of attention, but would perhaps pray for us
if we asked politely.
And what is the function and purpose of the Holy Ghost? We never hear
much of him or his functions?
The Holy Ghost is everywhere present in the Church as a spiritual guide
and comforter to those who believe. It is the power of the Holy Spirit
that is given in Holy Orders, and even to ordinary believers in
Confirmation.
God is presented as all good and our savior. Why is he punishing
billions of people because Adam and Eve took a bight out of the
forbidden fruit? These billions had NOTHING to do with this so-called
original sin! Why would God create this kind of situation when all he
had to do was create people free from sin and temptation in the first
place? Does he enjoy playing painful games with his creations?
Because billions of people are still munching on the fruit of the Tree of
Knowledge of Good and Evil. It is not knowledge that is sin, but this
duality of good-evil when WE define it according to our own criteria,
based on our own desires and attachments.
If God created us in his image and is all merciful, why does he create
totally innocent children born deformed, blind, deaf, and mentally
defective? Why does he have them die at an early age of disease and
accidents?
Good question and one that has been asked over and over by theologians.
Look it up under "the problem of evil." The basic answer seems to be
that, in a world full of sin, it is impossible to prevent these ravages
without violating man's free will.
With omnipotence and omniscience at his disposal, why does God create
so many imperfections and diseases in all his creations?
What is so imperfect is what is not yet a finished creation.
In the last few centuries as the result of mans improvements in diet,
cures for diseases and improved medical care, man has extended life
spans from less than 40 years to almost 80 years.
That's nice. Is it good? Is it evil?
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer, healthier,
more handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no
evidence that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as
compared to non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions
of people have died, there is no credible evidence that any of these
billions now exist in heaven or any after life.
The evidence is rather strong that all of the God myths and religions
are creations of man to mollify his fear of the unknown and death.
I realize that atheists will simply mock the ideas I'm putting forth here
and get no small amount of flack in return from so-called believers, but
there is nothing wrong in asking these questions and seeking answers to
them. In the final analysis we, like Jacob, must each wrestle our own
angel.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
|
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
10 Dec 2004 09:33:10 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 23:41:42 GMT, Dave Oldridge <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion?
Is the fear of death so great that most people need to believe in a
glorious after life? Religious belief and faith is one of the most
illogical and unsubstantiated beliefs one can imagine.
There are hundreds of religions each believing in their own God and
rejecting others. Which is the real or true God?
No book or body of teaching can encompass the totality of God. Yet many
(if not all) attempts to seek Him and to express the results of that
search have at least partially captured truth. And, if we read carefully
the revelations that are purported to be from Him, we find that sometimes
things actually work.
Zero is not a good result.
If God existed and wanted us to adore and obey him he certainly would
make at least a minimal attempt to convince us of his existence and
authenticity.
Apparently He does not wish to be apprehended like a proof in Euclid or a
flat scientific observation of fact, but rather to be taken on faith. On
the other hand, He does offer some ways in which that faith can be built
upon and which, if followed will result in at least personal evidence of
His existence.
You do believe in a stupid or corrupt God.
There are thousands of Gods and religious beliefs. There are many
religions with elaborate documentation claiming their authenticity.
Actually, there can (by definition) be only ONE Supreme Being. He (She,
It?} can, as the Christian theology has shown, manifest more than one
persona, but must still retain a central unity of being in order to be
THE Supreme Being.
Which is the true God? And why doesn't the true God go on
international TV and demonstrate that HE is the real God? Why doesn't
he smite all the other fake Gods to eliminate the confusion and false
beliefs?
Ask Him? Ask and ye shall receive. Knock and it will be opened to you!
What you receive is proof of no God.
Even within the Christian religion there are dozens of different sects
with different beliefs.
Yep...and some of the differences are even important, though a very broad
group of Christians do accept the basic provisions of the Nicene Creed.
Christians believe that they are created in the image of God and that
God consists of the trinity of God the Father, the Son and the Holy
Ghost. And God ever was and always will be. Does this make any sense
at all? God is justified by the claim that the Universe could not just
happen or always have existed. It had to have a God creator. Than who
or what created God? And why could only God "always have existed" and
not the Universe?
God's existence transcends all dimensional constraints of time or space.
If one reads scripture carefully in the original languages, the passages
commonly translated in English to mean "God created" pretty much
invariably state "God is creating."
So?
If they ever were, why does the son need a father? If the Son of God
needed to be put on earth to teach us to obey him and convert us to
his religion why was it done in such a convoluted and grossly
inefficient, grossly brutish and ineffective manner? Why did he have
to be born of a virgin mother, be raised as a normal child and work as
a carpenter until he was in his thirties and only then start informing
a VERY small part of the worlds population on what they had to do to
be saved from hell or purgatory? And then to cap it off, what was the
purpose of having God nailed to a cross with two criminals to get him
back to heaven? Why did not the Son of God just come to earth to
preach to all of us from the beginning of mankind to the present?
Jesus's preaching reached only a VERY small portion of the world
population. Why did he wait until more than 100,000 years after the
origin of humans on earth to come down and save them? Why condemn
most of the world population to purgatory or hell because Gods
preaching did not reach them? Why does he communicate through
thousands of preachers of varying degrees of veracity and beliefs?
Actually, the job of a true priest of God is to show you how to establish
your own channel of communion. But there are a TON of people who would
like to situate themselves between you and God.
Is God unable to make himself known or does he just enjoy playing cruel games?
Why has his message been delivered so poorly that only about a quarter
of the world understands his religion and the other three-quarters
honestly believe in other religions, Gods and creators? If man, Gods
creation can communicate world wide with radio, telephones and TV why
can't God use equally or more effective means of communication?
I'm sure He does. I use the tools that He gave ME specifically to use.
The way the message is delivered no God is needed.
Why would God prohibit soles in heaven from communicating with their
relatives and friends on earth? What would Gods purpose be for this
restriction and secrecy? Would not God have more loyal followers if
he permitted people in the after life to tell us presently on earth
how wonderful the after life is for those that follow gods precepts?
I can think of a lot of complications with that idea right off the top of
my head. Perhaps those in heaven DO hear us and communicate occasionally
with those who listen. More likely they are too busy communing with God
to pay us mortals a whole LOT of attention, but would perhaps pray for us
if we asked politely.
They are probably too busy defending themselves from God's cruel games.
There is no reason to think that God would stop being cruel once people get
to heaven.
And what is the function and purpose of the Holy Ghost? We never hear
much of him or his functions?
The Holy Ghost is everywhere present in the Church as a spiritual guide
and comforter to those who believe. It is the power of the Holy Spirit
that is given in Holy Orders, and even to ordinary believers in
Confirmation.
If there was a good God we would not need comforting.
God is presented as all good and our savior. Why is he punishing
billions of people because Adam and Eve took a bight out of the
forbidden fruit? These billions had NOTHING to do with this so-called
original sin! Why would God create this kind of situation when all he
had to do was create people free from sin and temptation in the first
place? Does he enjoy playing painful games with his creations?
Because billions of people are still munching on the fruit of the Tree of
Knowledge of Good and Evil. It is not knowledge that is sin, but this
duality of good-evil when WE define it according to our own criteria,
based on our own desires and attachments.
Why does God give us such desires?
If God created us in his image and is all merciful, why does he create
totally innocent children born deformed, blind, deaf, and mentally
defective? Why does he have them die at an early age of disease and
accidents?
Good question and one that has been asked over and over by theologians.
Theologians are idiots. There is no God.
Look it up under "the problem of evil." The basic answer seems to be
that, in a world full of sin, it is impossible to prevent these ravages
without violating man's free will.
That's a load of crap. Jesus claimed that all things are possible for God.
If God knew he would be unable or unwilling to give all his creations a good
life he should never have created.
With omnipotence and omniscience at his disposal, why does God create
so many imperfections and diseases in all his creations?
What is so imperfect is what is not yet a finished creation.
That's a non-answer.
In the last few centuries as the result of mans improvements in diet,
cures for diseases and improved medical care, man has extended life
spans from less than 40 years to almost 80 years.
That's nice. Is it good? Is it evil?
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer, healthier,
more handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no
evidence that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as
compared to non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions
of people have died, there is no credible evidence that any of these
billions now exist in heaven or any after life.
The evidence is rather strong that all of the God myths and religions
are creations of man to mollify his fear of the unknown and death.
I realize that atheists will simply mock the ideas I'm putting forth here
and get no small amount of flack in return from so-called believers, but
there is nothing wrong in asking these questions and seeking answers to
them. In the final analysis we, like Jacob, must each wrestle our own
angel.
You are mocked because you are talking crap about a crap religion.
Your beliefs have no value whatever.
Why can't you accept that there is no God?
If there is a God it must be either very stupid or very evil.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
.
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| User: "Gregg" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 12:41:31 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion?
Is
<snip>
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer, healthier,
more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no
evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of people
have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions now
exist in
heaven or any after life.
Bill,
Try writing down the "answers" to these questions and you may be
enlightened.
HTH,
g
--
"To know is to know that to know is not to know"
.
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| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 02:40:08 PM |
|
|
"Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message
news:v%0ud.56752$QJ3.37375@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion?
Is
<snip>
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer, healthier,
more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no
evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of people
have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions now
exist in
heaven or any after life.
Bill,
Try writing down the "answers" to these questions and you may be
enlightened.
He's already enlightened. He just wants to see believers make clowns of
themselves with their pseudo-mystical drivel.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Gregg" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 02:45:53 PM |
|
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"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au>
wrote in message news:41b8b828$0$1291$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message
news:v%0ud.56752$QJ3.37375@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their
religion?
Is
<snip>
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer, healthier,
more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no
evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of people
have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions now
exist in
heaven or any after life.
Bill,
Try writing down the "answers" to these questions and you may be
enlightened.
He's already enlightened. He just wants to see believers make clowns
of
themselves with their pseudo-mystical drivel.
Ah, ok, so he doesn't really want the answers?
Sorry, I was just trying to help.
g
--
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to
get
its pants on."
-- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
.
|
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| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 05:06:55 PM |
|
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"Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message
news:5Q2ud.56779$QJ3.26140@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au>
wrote in message news:41b8b828$0$1291>> >> that true believers benefit on
He's already enlightened. He just wants to see believers make clowns
of
themselves with their pseudo-mystical drivel.
Ah, ok, so he doesn't really want the answers?
Sorry, I was just trying to help.
Everyone wants answers.
Unfortunately there are no cut and dried answers to life, the universe etc.
and we have to try to convince the poor believers of this simple fact and
get them thinking to help them through their ancient, former pagan tradition
based delusions, and the best way to do that is to ask questions.
You see, we the non-duped believe that believers have a still functioning
brain but we haven't found a way to prove it yet.
The quest continues.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 03:01:07 PM |
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on 09 Dec 2004 in alt.atheism, Gregg dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
Ah, ok, so he doesn't really want the answers?
Sorry, I was just trying to help.
Since the thread was crossposted to four Christian NGs, methinks he is
trying to start a flame war, a la Truth Hunter.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
.
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| User: "Gregg" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 03:33:47 PM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95BA8496F7CA1vicman@127.0.0.1...
Since the thread was crossposted to four Christian NGs, methinks he is
trying to start a flame war, a la Truth Hunter.
Aw, darn, and I thought he was being serious.
Oh, well.
g
--
"I before E except after C -- We live in a weird society!"
.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 12:46:08 PM |
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I have and they all spell nonsense!
--
Bill
"Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message
news:v%0ud.56752$QJ3.37375@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion?
Is
<snip>
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer, healthier,
more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no
evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of people
have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions now
exist in
heaven or any after life.
Bill,
Try writing down the "answers" to these questions and you may be
enlightened.
HTH,
g
--
"To know is to know that to know is not to know"
.
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| User: "Gregg" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 12:52:03 PM |
|
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Q31ud.1061976$Gx4.929163@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
--
Bill
"Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message
news:v%0ud.56752$QJ3.37375@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their
religion?
Is
<snip>
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer,
healthier,
more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no
evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of
people
have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions now
exist in
heaven or any after life.
Bill,
Try writing down the "answers" to these questions and you may be
enlightened.
HTH,
g
I have and they all spell nonsense!
What were they? Perhaps you're closer than you think.
g
--
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -- Albert
Einstein
.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 01:14:19 PM |
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"Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message
news:n91ud.56753$QJ3.7985@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Q31ud.1061976$Gx4.929163@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
--
Bill
"Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message
news:v%0ud.56752$QJ3.37375@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their
religion?
Is
<snip>
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer,
healthier,
more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no
evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of
people
have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions now
exist in
heaven or any after life.
Bill,
Try writing down the "answers" to these questions and you may be
enlightened.
HTH,
g
I have and they all spell nonsense!
What were they? Perhaps you're closer than you think.
Quit playing games with this nonsense. If you have ANY OBJECTIVE arguments
against my post - state them.
If you have ANY OBJECTIVE evidence of the existence of your God - state it.
Your avoidance of this indicates you really can't prove the existence of
your God.
g
--
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -- Albert
Einstein
.
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| User: "Gregg" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 01:32:49 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fu1ud.1062098$Gx4.147383@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
"Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message
news:n91ud.56753$QJ3.7985@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Q31ud.1061976$Gx4.929163@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
--
Bill
"Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote in message
news:v%0ud.56752$QJ3.37375@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their
religion?
Is
<snip>
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer,
healthier,
more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is
no
evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared
to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of
people
have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions
now
exist in
heaven or any after life.
Bill,
Try writing down the "answers" to these questions and you may be
enlightened.
HTH,
g
I have and they all spell nonsense!
What were they? Perhaps you're closer than you think.
Quit playing games with this nonsense.
What if that's all there is to do?
If you have ANY OBJECTIVE arguments
against my post - state them.
I was just wondering if YOU had any.
If you have ANY OBJECTIVE evidence of the existence of your God -
state it.
I never said I had a "God" or who he belonged to, much less if there
were any evidence.
Your avoidance of this indicates you really can't prove the existence
of
your God.
I never set out to prove or disprove anything.
Bill, you seem to have misunderstood, or maybe I have. The questions and
statements in your original post indicated to me that you had come to
some sort of impass with regards to some questions you had. I was merely
trying to gently nudge you toward what might be a more reliable source
than these newsgroups.
I sincerely only wish to help.
g
--
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary,
and those who don't
.
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| User: "Deadcarnahans" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 03:06:36 PM |
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I never set out to prove or disprove anything.
Fortunately there is nothing to prove or disprove. If there was, the burden of
proof would lay with he who claims something exists, without evidence. The rest
of us normal intelligent people don't have to prove anything.
Bill, like many, accepts the idea that primitive societies manufactured
supernatural entities to account for unexplained natural phenomena. The
problems is that we don't live in caves anymore and we possess technolgy that
does not belong in the the hands of stone age fools.
DC
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| User: "DaveJr" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 08:57:42 PM |
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ALL religions from the past and of current times are based on fear of the
unknown and born out of mythology. It's that simple.
PLEASE read a book entitled "THE GOLDEN BOUGH"
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
10 Dec 2004 02:47:16 AM |
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On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:57:42 -0700, "DaveJr" <davesbrain@qwest.net>
wrote:
ALL religions from the past and of current times are based on fear of the
unknown and born out of mythology. It's that simple.
PLEASE read a book entitled "THE GOLDEN BOUGH"
Yes this is I think the main driver of belief it is incredibly
difficult to comprehend an eternity of not existing but it is the
mindset that we have that drives our solution. If you have a logical
freethinking mind you look at it rationally and in the absence of any
evidence to support existence of after life or 'eternal soul' are
forced to conclude that it is most unlikely there is an afterlife.
On the other hand if your approach is an emotional one you
do not look at it logically and just see it as obvious there must
be an afterlife where everything is happy clappy and contended.
This is what we would all like therefore it obviously is. I am
sure they must get very irritated by our logical search for the
truth just as we are baffled that they cannot see how wishful it
is.
Things are what they are not what we would like them to
be and our attempt to find out how things actually are (science)
just baffles and even frightens them. I think I can understand
why the clear evidence that we are part of the ape family has
to be rejected. It just does not fit with their notions that we
humans are the centre of the universe specially choosen
by their god. There are no plants and animals in their heaven,
no jungles only us and their gods
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 01:31:54 PM |
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on 09 Dec 2004 in alt.atheism, Bill dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
Your avoidance of this indicates you really can't prove the existence
of your God.
Christians make the fatal mistake of assuming their god exists. From this
standpoint they feel they can logically ask you to disprove the existence
of their god. Since you can't, it must exist.
Arguing with these people is pointless.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
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| User: "Gregg" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 02:03:50 PM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95BA757619029vicman@127.0.0.1...
on 09 Dec 2004 in alt.atheism, Bill dropped trou, farted, whirled,
then
shouted:
Your avoidance of this indicates you really can't prove the
existence
of your God.
Christians make the fatal mistake of assuming their god exists. From
this
standpoint they feel they can logically ask you to disprove the
existence
of their god. Since you can't, it must exist.
Vic,
I know you don't know me, but I never claimed to be christian, or
anything else. I never asked him to disprove anything or even claimed to
have a "god" or whether or not one even existed.
Arguing with these people is pointless.
So which one of "these people" would you believe me to be?
g
--
I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 02:56:25 PM |
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on 09 Dec 2004 in alt.atheism, Gregg dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
Vic,
I know you don't know me, but I never claimed to be christian, or
anything else. I never asked him to disprove anything or even claimed to
have a "god" or whether or not one even existed.
In all fairness I never mentioned your name. Bill apparently picked up on
your use of the word "enlightened".
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
.
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| User: "Gregg" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 03:36:28 PM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95BA83CAC192Evicman@127.0.0.1...
on 09 Dec 2004 in alt.atheism, Gregg dropped trou, farted, whirled,
then
shouted:
Vic,
I know you don't know me, but I never claimed to be christian, or
anything else. I never asked him to disprove anything or even
claimed to
have a "god" or whether or not one even existed.
In all fairness I never mentioned your name. Bill apparently picked
up on
your use of the word "enlightened".
Sorry, didn't mean to sound accusational.
g
--
"To know is to know that to know is not to know"
.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
10 Dec 2004 09:32:53 AM |
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On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 18:41:31 GMT, "Gregg" <me@NoSpam.invalid> wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion?
Is
<snip>
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer, healthier,
more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no
evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of people
have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions now
exist in
heaven or any after life.
Bill,
Try writing down the "answers" to these questions and you may be
enlightened.
One word. Fiction.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 08:04:26 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion? Is
the fear of death so great that most people need to believe in a glorious
after life? Religious belief and faith is one of the most illogical and
unsubstantiated beliefs one can imagine.
It's not a fear of death but a sublimation of individual sexual procreation.
The individual justifies death by the eternal reproduction of the tribe. The
deity personifies the father and/or mother of all the subjects.
There are hundreds of religions each believing in their own God and
rejecting others. Which is the real or true God?
Illogical question. Subjective ruth is relative to the person's beliefs.
If God existed and wanted us to adore and obey him he certainly would make
at least a minimal attempt to convince us of his existence and
authenticity.
Right. Accordiong to the believers He does.
There are thousands of Gods and religious beliefs. There are many
religions
with elaborate documentation claiming their authenticity. Which is the
true
God? And why doesn't the true God go on international TV and demonstrate
that HE is the real God? Why doesn't he smite all the other fake Gods to
eliminate the confusion and false beliefs?
Even within the Christian religion there are dozens of different sects
with
different beliefs.
Christians believe that they are created in the image of God and that God
consists of the trinity of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. And
God ever was and always will be. Does this make any sense at all? God is
justified by the claim that the Universe could not just happen or always
have existed. It had to have a God creator. Than who or what created God?
And why could only God "always have existed" and not the Universe?
It is a rationalisation which is necessary to have the beliefs. Absolute
authority is needed to subjugate the individual for the purpose of
collective action. In a way it is a good thing in that it helps control
runaway sexual reproduction in the species as a whole, by limiting
individuals and cementing the group for warfare purposes.
If they ever were, why does the son need a father? If the Son of God
needed
to be put on earth to teach us to obey him and convert us to his religion
why was it done in such a convoluted and grossly inefficient, grossly
brutish and ineffective manner? Why did he have to be born of a virgin
mother, be raised as a normal child and work as a carpenter until he was
in
his thirties and only then start informing a VERY small part of the worlds
population on what they had to do to be saved from hell or purgatory? And
then to cap it off, what was the purpose of having God nailed to a cross
with two criminals to get him back to heaven? Why did not the Son of God
just come to earth to preach to all of us from the beginning of mankind to
the present? Jesus's preaching reached only a VERY small portion of the
world population. Why did he wait until more than 100,000 years after the
origin of humans on earth to come down and save them? Why condemn most of
the world population to purgatory or hell because Gods preaching did not
reach them? Why does he communicate through thousands of preachers of
varying degrees of veracity and beliefs?
The questions don't make sense to me because you ask to explain irrational
beliefs without the context of the indiviual who holds the beliefs.
Why has his message been delivered so poorly that only about a quarter of
the world understands his religion and the other three-quarters honestly
believe in other religions, Gods and creators? If man, Gods creation can
communicate world wide with radio, telephones and TV why can't God use
equally or more effective means of communication?
He uses TV. Isn't that good enough? You are like the person who complains
about the media not covering an event who learned about it from the media.
As far as you're concerned you have enough information. Why are you
concerned about a bunch of other religions you understand even less than the
one you're trying to criticize. In case you haven't noticed this is the
alt.atheism NG. (Oh, I see you cross-posted it.)
Why would God prohibit soles in heaven from communicating with their
relatives and friends on earth?
Because all God's chillun gots shoes.
What would Gods purpose be for this
restriction and secrecy?
They could talk to us but they don't want to. Duh!
Would not God have more loyal followers if he
permitted people in the after life to tell us presently on earth how
wonderful the after life is for those that follow gods precepts?
What does God need with more loyal followers? It's not a political party.
And what is the function and purpose of the Holy Ghost? We never hear much
of him or his functions?
You just wouldn't understand.
God is presented as all good and our savior. Why is he punishing billions
of people because Adam and Eve took a bight out of the forbidden fruit?
Why are you punishing thousands by posting this?
These billions had NOTHING to do with this so-called original sin! Why
would
God create this kind of situation when all he had to do was create people
free from sin and temptation in the first place? Does he enjoy playing
painful games with his creations?
I feel your pain.
If God created us in his image and is all merciful, why does he create
totally innocent children born deformed, blind, deaf, and mentally
defective? Why does he have them die at an early age of disease and
accidents?
Why does He not give everyone food stamps?
With omnipotence and omniscience at his disposal, why does God create so
many imperfections and diseases in all his creations?
Cause they will be perfect when they meet their Maker.
In the last few centuries as the result of mans improvements in diet,
cures
for diseases and improved medical care, man has extended life spans from
less than 40 years to almost 80 years.
Why does God not make his fervent followers live longer, healthier, more
handsome, more beautiful and more prosperous lives. There is no evidence
that true believers benefit on earth in any manner as compared to
non-believers or even blasphemers. And although billions of people have
died, there is no credible evidence that any of these billions now exist
in
heaven or any after life.
How do you know there isn't?
The evidence is rather strong that all of the God myths and religions are
creations of man to mollify his fear of the unknown and death.
Then how come you're so brave?
--
Bill
.
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| User: "DaveJr" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 10:52:36 PM |
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ALL religions from the past and of current times are based on fear of the
unknown and born out of mythology. It's that simple.
PLEASE read a book entitled "THE GOLDEN BOUGH"
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
10 Dec 2004 08:48:27 PM |
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"DaveJr" <davesbrain@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:d0aud.29$Mj2.4618@news.uswest.net...
ALL religions from the past and of current times are based on fear of the
unknown and born out of mythology. It's that simple.
No it isn't. Not only not that simple, but not that at all. I see you cut
out what I said maybe because you didn't understand what I said.
PLEASE read a book entitled "THE GOLDEN BOUGH"
I only got time to read alt.atheism, and I don't need no fancyshmancy books.
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
.
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| User: "Family Man" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 03:54:39 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion? Is
the fear of death so great that most people need to believe in a glorious
after life? Religious belief and faith is one of the most illogical and
unsubstantiated beliefs one can imagine.
Fear of death is one reason, but the main underlying reason is the fact that
they were brainwashed from birth with their families cult. If you were never
told these mythical fantacies about "heaven", "hell", "alah", "satan", etc.,
then you would not fear death. Fear is what religions are based on, because
with fear comes control.
There are hundreds of religions each believing in their own God and
rejecting others. Which is the real or true God?
Which ever one they were bred to follow since birth.
If God existed and wanted us to adore and obey him he certainly would make
at least a minimal attempt to convince us of his existence and
authenticity.
Exactly. But it's only a myth, written by man as a way to control large
societies. In the modern USA we have laws instead of myths. Laws that are
based on common sense morals with fairness to All citizens. (at least until
Bush & Company were selected emporer)
Theocracy doesn't work for a free modern society, just look at the middle
east.
----
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
09 Dec 2004 02:52:56 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion? Is
the fear of death so great that most people need to believe in a glorious
after life? Religious belief and faith is one of the most illogical and
unsubstantiated beliefs one can imagine.
I don't think it's the fear of death, I think it's the certainty that's
addictive. The afterlife thing is just the iceing.
With certainty, you don't have to think for yourself, you don't have to make
decisions, you don't have to justify your actions to yourself. You certainly
don't have to worry that your certainty itself is unjustified. "I was only
following orders" is a very liberating philosophy, if you're not concerned
with the ethical implications.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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| User: "Siobhan Burke" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
13 Dec 2004 07:35:31 AM |
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In article <SqCdnXP6c-XWJiXcRVn-rA@io.com>,
says...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fD0ud.1061837$Gx4.993723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
How can so many people be so compulsively attached to their religion? Is
the fear of death so great that most people need to believe in a glorious
after life? Religious belief and faith is one of the most illogical and
unsubstantiated beliefs one can imagine.
I don't think it's the fear of death, I think it's the certainty that's
addictive. The afterlife thing is just the iceing.
That's been my observation, as well.
With certainty, you don't have to think for yourself, you don't have to make
decisions, you don't have to justify your actions to yourself. You certainly
don't have to worry that your certainty itself is unjustified. "I was only
following orders" is a very liberating philosophy, if you're not concerned
with the ethical implications.
My best friend in high school was "born again" not long after
graduation. She went on and on about how wonderful it was to
"lay your burdens down" and "put your trust in Jesus" and
basically to utterly abrogate any shred of personal
responsibility in one's life, and was terribly confused as to
why I found such behavior reprehensible and repugnant. We had
been good friends, I thought, and so I even allowed her to drag
me to one of the meetings of her church (horribly embarrassing,
with crosses descending onto the stage and choirs rising up out
of it, and a baptismal pool in one of the theatre balconies).
The last words she said to me later that week were to the effect
that we couldn't be friends any longer, as when we were together
we didn't think about Jesus. I allowed as how that was true,
and that was that. Later I found out that she had embezzled
hundreds of dollars from a joint business account we had. My
own fault--I trusted her. <shrug>
--
Siobhan
"Can they think, and then think like this?"
Jennet Jourdemayne, The Lady's Not For Burning, Act One.
Christopher Fry, 1949
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
13 Dec 2004 07:41:52 AM |
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"Siobhan Burke" <siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c275cb74209c22c98975f@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
snip
My best friend in high school was "born again" not long after
graduation. She went on and on about how wonderful it was to
"lay your burdens down" and "put your trust in Jesus" and
basically to utterly abrogate any shred of personal
responsibility in one's life, and was terribly confused as to
why I found such behavior reprehensible and repugnant. We had
been good friends, I thought, and so I even allowed her to drag
me to one of the meetings of her church (horribly embarrassing,
with crosses descending onto the stage and choirs rising up out
of it, and a baptismal pool in one of the theatre balconies).
The last words she said to me later that week were to the effect
that we couldn't be friends any longer, as when we were together
we didn't think about Jesus. I allowed as how that was true,
and that was that. Later I found out that she had embezzled
hundreds of dollars from a joint business account we had. My
own fault--I trusted her. <shrug>
Wait a sec. Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not steal"?
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
13 Dec 2004 07:55:44 AM |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:41:52 -0500 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism
"Siobhan Burke" <siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c275cb74209c22c98975f@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
snip
My best friend in high school was "born again" not long after
graduation. She went on and on about how wonderful it was to
"lay your burdens down" and "put your trust in Jesus" and
basically to utterly abrogate any shred of personal
responsibility in one's life, and was terribly confused as to
why I found such behavior reprehensible and repugnant. We had
been good friends, I thought, and so I even allowed her to drag
me to one of the meetings of her church (horribly embarrassing,
with crosses descending onto the stage and choirs rising up out
of it, and a baptismal pool in one of the theatre balconies).
The last words she said to me later that week were to the effect
that we couldn't be friends any longer, as when we were together
we didn't think about Jesus. I allowed as how that was true,
and that was that. Later I found out that she had embezzled
hundreds of dollars from a joint business account we had. My
own fault--I trusted her. <shrug>
Wait a sec. Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not steal"?
Ah, well, clearly Jesus gave her access to the money she wanted, and
she is of course, forgiven.
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| User: "Siobhan Burke" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
16 Dec 2004 08:50:18 AM |
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In article <4p7rr0hni11jo0ujdsvvuh5p5asr0ht3at@4ax.com>,
autodelete@city-of-dis.com says...
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:41:52 -0500 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism
"Siobhan Burke" <siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c275cb74209c22c98975f@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
snip
My best friend in high school was "born again" not long after
graduation. She went on and on about how wonderful it was to
"lay your burdens down" and "put your trust in Jesus" and
basically to utterly abrogate any shred of personal
responsibility in one's life, and was terribly confused as to
why I found such behavior reprehensible and repugnant. We had
been good friends, I thought, and so I even allowed her to drag
me to one of the meetings of her church (horribly embarrassing,
with crosses descending onto the stage and choirs rising up out
of it, and a baptismal pool in one of the theatre balconies).
The last words she said to me later that week were to the effect
that we couldn't be friends any longer, as when we were together
we didn't think about Jesus. I allowed as how that was true,
and that was that. Later I found out that she had embezzled
hundreds of dollars from a joint business account we had. My
own fault--I trusted her. <shrug>
Wait a sec. Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not steal"?
Ah, well, clearly Jesus gave her access to the money she wanted, and
she is of course, forgiven.
On the nosie! Well done, that man. :)
--
Siobhan
"But as a general rule, when things look bad there's always some
***** who can make them worse." -- Terry Pratchett
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| User: "AngryJohn" |
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| Title: Re: Serious God questions |
16 Dec 2004 06:41:32 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:55:44 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:41:52 -0500 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism
"Siobhan Burke" <siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c275cb74209c22c98975f@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
snip
My best friend in high school was "born again" not long after
graduation. She went on and on about how wonderful it was to
"lay your burdens down" and "put your trust in Jesus" and
basically to utterly abrogate any shred of personal
responsibility in one's life, and was terribly confused as to
why I found such behavior reprehensible and repugnant. We had
been good friends, I thought, and so I even allowed her to drag
me to one of the meetings of her church (horribly embarrassing,
with crosses descending onto the stage and choirs rising up out
of it, and a baptismal pool in one of the theatre balconies).
The last words she said to me later that week were to the effect
that we couldn't be friends any longer, as when we were together
we didn't think about Jesus. I allowed as how that was true,
and that was that. Later I found out that she had embezzled
hundreds of dollars from a joint business account we had. My
own fault--I trusted her. <shrug>
Wait a sec. Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not steal"?
Ah, well, clearly Jesus gave her access to the money she wanted, and
she is of course, forgiven.
"God" works in mysterious ways. Here is the evidence that he has
helped yet another atheist see the light of foulness contained within
religion.
------------------------------
aa#2106
Remove Belief to reply
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