| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Conspiracy of Doves" |
| Date: |
18 Dec 2007 10:55:31 AM |
| Object: |
Serious question for believers |
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
.
|
|
| User: "LC" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
18 Dec 2007 12:25:11 PM |
|
|
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cfe1e230-8049-4b78-ab2c-ffe7bc9575a9@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
I like Ben's take on faith:
"The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason."~ Ben Franklin
.
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Vic" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
18 Dec 2007 03:39:15 PM |
|
|
LC wrote:
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cfe1e230-8049-4b78-ab2c-ffe7bc9575a9@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
I like Ben's take on faith:
"The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason."~ Ben Franklin
Or this one:
"There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed. "
--
Uncle Vic
2011
.
|
|
|
| User: "LC" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
18 Dec 2007 04:12:40 PM |
|
|
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:R6WdnR8-R4yeo_XanZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@inreach.com...
LC wrote:
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cfe1e230-8049-4b78-ab2c-ffe7bc9575a9@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
I like Ben's take on faith:
"The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason."~ Ben Franklin
Or this one:
"There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed. "
Good one, Vic.
Isn't that one from a.a's very own Rev. Karl?
How about one more:
"The eyes are not responsible when the mind does the seeing."~ Publilius
Syrus
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
18 Dec 2007 12:33:37 PM |
|
|
On Dec 18, 1:25 pm, "LC" <LC__...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:cfe1e230-8049-4b78-ab2c-ffe7bc9575a9@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
I like Ben's take on faith:
"The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason."~ Ben Franklin
Martin Luther said nearly the same thing. But when he said it, it was
a suggestion.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lord Calvert" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
18 Dec 2007 12:42:33 PM |
|
|
On Dec 18, 1:33 pm, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 18, 1:25 pm, "LC" <LC__...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:cfe1e230-8049-4b78-ab2c-ffe7bc9575a9@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
I like Ben's take on faith:
"The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason."~ Ben Franklin
Martin Luther said nearly the same thing. But when he said it, it was
a suggestion.
Here are some of Luther's quotes on reason (from
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm ). The man was
most definitely three fries short of a Happy Meal.
======================
Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid
of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against
the Divine Word....
Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample
underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees
must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God.
To be a Christian, you must pluck out the eye of reason.
Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his
reason.
So tenaciously should we cling to the world revealed by the Gospel,
that were I to see all the Angels of Heaven coming down to me to tell
me something different, not only would I not be tempted to doubt a
single syllable, but I would shut my eyes and stop my ears, for they
would not deserve to be either seen or heard.
====================
The man who was largely responsible for founding all of Protestantism
very baldly said that in order to be a Christian you had to be
willfully stupid. Yet, millions of people around the world still
follow this madman's teachings.
Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1
EAC Department of Cruel and Unusual Choreography
.
|
|
|
| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
18 Dec 2007 01:26:38 PM |
|
|
On Dec 18, 1:42 pm, Lord Calvert <CalvertdeG...@msn.com> wrote:
On Dec 18, 1:33 pm, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 18, 1:25 pm, "LC" <LC__...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:cfe1e230-8049-4b78-ab2c-ffe7bc9575a9@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
I like Ben's take on faith:
"The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason."~ Ben Franklin
Martin Luther said nearly the same thing. But when he said it, it was
a suggestion.
Here are some of Luther's quotes on reason (fromhttp://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm). The man was
most definitely three fries short of a Happy Meal.
======================
Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid
of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against
the Divine Word....
Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample
underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees
must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God.
To be a Christian, you must pluck out the eye of reason.
Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his
reason.
So tenaciously should we cling to the world revealed by the Gospel,
that were I to see all the Angels of Heaven coming down to me to tell
me something different, not only would I not be tempted to doubt a
single syllable, but I would shut my eyes and stop my ears, for they
would not deserve to be either seen or heard.
====================
The man who was largely responsible for founding all of Protestantism
very baldly said that in order to be a Christian you had to be
willfully stupid. Yet, millions of people around the world still
follow this madman's teachings.
Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1
EAC Department of Cruel and Unusual Choreography
Is this what you were trying to post?
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/luther.htm
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
18 Dec 2007 11:30:02 AM |
|
|
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cfe1e230-8049-4b78-ab2c-ffe7bc9575a9@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
Not a believer, but I would think belief is simply having a position, while
faith is dogmatically holding to that position regardless.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http//www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
18 Dec 2007 10:34:50 PM |
|
|
Conspiracy of Doves:
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
I've never put much thought into semantic questions like that one, but
spontaneously...
...."belief" I'd say means everything you're not really sure of - and I don't
mean the scientific "well we can't be 100 % confident but there's very
strong evidence", but a somewhat smaller percentage of confidence.
(Of course based on that definition everyone believes a lot of things... I
can hear the morontheists crying out with joy for "another one admits that
it's all religion blah yadda"... *chuckle* )
"Faith" is more like "I know there's no objective evidence supporting the
claim. I choose to believe this-and-that, but purely based on personal
views and convictions - if you want to disagree, you're welcome, just let's
not insist on discussing all that as long as no one gets harmed by it".
Don't know how much sense you think that means... like I said, this is quite
spontaneously :)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 01:09:03 AM |
|
|
On Dec 18, 11:34 pm, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOsecret...@carcosa.de> wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves:
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
I've never put much thought into semantic questions like that one, but
spontaneously...
..."belief" I'd say means everything you're not really sure of - and I don't
mean the scientific "well we can't be 100 % confident but there's very
strong evidence", but a somewhat smaller percentage of confidence.
(Of course based on that definition everyone believes a lot of things... I
can hear the morontheists crying out with joy for "another one admits that
it's all religion blah yadda"... *chuckle* )
"Faith" is more like "I know there's no objective evidence supporting the
claim. I choose to believe this-and-that, but purely based on personal
views and convictions - if you want to disagree, you're welcome, just let's
not insist on discussing all that as long as no one gets harmed by it".
Don't know how much sense you think that means... like I said, this is quite
spontaneously :)
So faith is a belief that you don't want to hear anyone question?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 08:40:41 AM |
|
|
Conspiracy of Doves:
So faith is a belief that you don't want to hear anyone question?
Who would ever _want_ to see anything questioned she accepts as true? :)
Seriously, you're welcome to question what I call my faith. If you disagree,
well, you disagree. You're happy with your views and I am with mine, and as
long as no one of us intrudes on the freedoms of the other, all will be
fine ;)
(I should add that "intruding on others' freedoms", in this case, would
include stuff like "promote legislation that jives with your own beliefs
even though there's no objective evidential support" et cetera... at least
in my opinion. I may believe things not that many others believe, but any
decisions I have to make that affect others have to be justifiable by
secular arguments, points that can be verified by others. If these things
then happen to fit with my beliefs, so much the better... and if not, well,
I guess I will have to face the facts ;) )
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 09:28:08 AM |
|
|
On Dec 19, 9:40 am, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOsecret...@carcosa.de> wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves:
So faith is a belief that you don't want to hear anyone question?
Who would ever _want_ to see anything questioned she accepts as true? :)
I should rephrase that. Faith is a belief that you will not tolerate
being questioned.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 10:04:00 PM |
|
|
Conspiracy of Doves:
I should rephrase that. Faith is a belief that you will not tolerate
being questioned.
In that case, my answer is a clear "no". You're welcome to question. ;)
(Well, if you still see a need to do so, after I openly admitted that yes,
there's no objective evidence supporting my beliefs)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 03:02:19 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:40:41 +0100, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOsecretary@carcosa.de> wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves:
So faith is a belief that you don't want to hear anyone question?
Who would ever _want_ to see anything questioned she accepts as true? :)
A scientist!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 09:42:23 PM |
|
|
Michael Gray:
Who would ever _want_ to see anything questioned she accepts as true? :)
A scientist!
Duh. My bad. You're right :)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 10:24:07 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 04:42:23 +0100, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOsecretary@carcosa.de> wrote:
Michael Gray:
Who would ever _want_ to see anything questioned she accepts as true? :)
A scientist!
Duh. My bad. You're right :)
We go well beyond 'wanting' it questioned:-
we positively *insist* upon accepted truths being questioned. ;)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
20 Dec 2007 11:55:10 AM |
|
|
Michael Gray:
We go well beyond 'wanting' it questioned:-
we positively *insist* upon accepted truths being questioned. ;)
True :)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 10:40:26 PM |
|
|
On Dec 18, 11:55 am, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
Might be better to explain why you ask such a stupid question, to
athesit retards no less.....oh, I guess it could be you ARE an
atheist retard yourself.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
20 Dec 2007 03:24:10 PM |
|
|
On Dec 19, 11:40 pm, wrote:
On Dec 18, 11:55 am, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
Might be better to explain why you ask such a stupid question, to
athesit retards no less.....oh, I guess it could be you ARE an
atheist retard yourself.
Translation: I feel persecuted because someone has drawn my attention
to the fact that I have no real answer to this simple question, so
I'll try to distract myself by insulting the person who asked it.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
20 Dec 2007 11:56:30 AM |
|
|
floresrikitic@hotmail.com:
Might be better to explain why you ask such a stupid question, to
athesit retards no less.....oh, I guess it could be you ARE an
atheist retard yourself.
Everyone... can you feel the True Christian(TM) loooooooove?
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
18 Dec 2007 10:34:16 PM |
|
|
On Dec 18, 11:55 am, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
Ok, next question. Why are believers so unwilling to answer simple
questions like that?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 01:08:00 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:34:16 -0800 (PST), Conspiracy of Doves
<mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 18, 11:55 am, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
Ok, next question. Why are believers so unwilling to answer simple
questions like that?
<Yiddish>
I don't know, why aren't they already?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "V" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
19 Dec 2007 05:58:44 PM |
|
|
On Dec 18, 11:55=EF=BF=BDam, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote=
:
Can someone please explain to me the difference between belief and
faith?
Well, believers of God or Buddhism or wicca base their beliefs in
faith.
But, when it comes to faith...faith must always be based on the fact
of a 'first see-er' or 'first contact' that is telling the truth.
We do not come up with ideas to base faith on all on our own.
All religious faith is based on someone else's reports.
If this persons report is based on lies, than the faith must
evaporate.
I am not shy to benefit from spiritual and religious tools. The only
requirement is that the tool can be tested for practical application.
And if the tool can't be tested and requires faith, I have to let it
go for the most part since there are so many lies that religion of man
is based on and no one can prove or disprove any of it.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D133.0
That is the beauty of being a freethinker. We can think for ourselves.
As such, when we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for
the job. Some tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the
time being, and still others are trashed when we see they are broken
and useless.
Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since
I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom
to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like anything that
comes from religion. Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a
freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion
and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject
into the equation?
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe
they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
Religious practicers as well as atheists need to open their mind and
see things without the delusions that both sides of this topic are
stuck in.
'Honor dies where interest lies.'
As an agnostic freethinker my interest is in discovering truth.
When we limit personal prejudice we can open our minds to truth and
peace. And realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside
within the human breast."
If it is religion that atheists or theists need to adopt, they only
have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just paying
secular humanism lip service will not do any good. Our talk of
spiritual values must match our actions.
I discuss this topic of faith with an ex-rabbi towards the end of this
thread:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D51.0
=46rom my own perspective since religion is riddled with lies and
ambiguities, the need for faith is where I leave off.
I test the spiritual traditions for veracity. Those areas that cannot
be tested or otherwise proved are let go of and those that can be
tested are either peace producing or peace destroying.
If peace destroying I let them go and if peace promoting I try to
implement some of them in my life.
A lot of people get confused when I talk about inner peace.
Some of them call me a 'self righteous twit' or worse.
Well, just because I talk about this peace subject a lot, does not
mean I practice it in all waking and sleeping hours.
Sometime I destroy me own peace as well.
But at least I do know the formula how to get back to a place of inner
peace if I desire to return to that place.
Peace is always a personal choice as no one can do it for us.
Inner peace does not take faith...it takes testing and practice.
"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside
forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness
falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies
to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires." ~
Hindu Sage
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
.
|
|
|
| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
20 Dec 2007 03:21:01 PM |
|
|
On Dec 19, 6:58 pm, V <vf...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 18, 11:55=EF=BF=BDam, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wro=
te:
Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since
I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom
to live at peace.
No, it's because you insist on posting gigantic self-congratulatory
walls of text when you could say the same thing in a few sentences.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ledraychere" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
21 Dec 2007 04:16:01 PM |
|
|
On Dec 20, 4:21=C2=A0pm, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 19, 6:58 pm, V <vf...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 18, 11:55=EF=BF=BDam, Conspiracy of Doves <mark_d...@yahoo.com> w=
rote:
Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since
I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom
to live at peace.
No, it's because you insist on posting gigantic self-congratulatory
walls of text when you could say the same thing in a few sentences.
To Conspiracy of Doves :
No true philosophy or philosopher when writing on his
philosophy can do so in a few sentences . This is
because truth is complex when it encounters the human
mind . The mind is limited in its capacity to comprehend
truth . All philosophers know this .
In fact "V" was quite brief in his post and I found
it
to be most impressive in it's presentation .
I make no comment on his process because mine
is different . As to which is better , we shall see .
In the meantime , The most damning thing to do
to a philosopher with whom you disagree in this way
is to simply say two words :
"I disagree" .
In this way , you condemn his philosophy and his
lengthy post and demonstrate your wisdom and
intelligence as well .
Ledraychere
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gordge" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
21 Dec 2007 06:42:44 PM |
|
|
On Dec 22, 7:16=A0am, Ledraychere <LEDRAYCH...@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 =A0 =A0In =A0the =A0meantime =A0, =A0 The =A0 most =A0 damning =A0thin=
g =A0to =A0do
to a =A0philosopher =A0 with =A0whom =A0you =A0disagree =A0in =A0this =A0w=
ay
is =A0to =A0simply =A0 say =A0 two =A0 words =A0:
=A0 =A0 =A0"I =A0 disagree" .
Have you reached an agreement with yourself on whether or not your
summation of all your experiences in your life is a subjective or
objective summation?
MG
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ledraychere" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
21 Dec 2007 07:15:52 PM |
|
|
On Dec 21, 7:42=A0pm, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
On Dec 22, 7:16=A0am, Ledraychere <LEDRAYCH...@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 =A0 =A0In =A0the =A0meantime =A0, =A0 The =A0 most =A0 damning =A0th=
ing =A0to =A0do
to a =A0philosopher =A0 with =A0whom =A0you =A0disagree =A0in =A0this =
=A0way
is =A0to =A0simply =A0 say =A0 two =A0 words =A0:
=A0 =A0 =A0"I =A0 disagree" .
Have you reached an agreement with yourself on whether or not your
summation of all your experiences in your life is a subjective or
objective summation?
MG
To MG :
This is part of the advantage I was given over
others.
I was aware of the distinctions between the two early on .
Therefore I knew how to distinguish between the objective
and the subjective as I encountered them . I was aware
of two realities , not one . As a result , no
agreement
has had to be reached .
I suppose you could say I have two distinct
summations
as a result . I don't call them that , but that's what
they are .
I keep forgetting that others have more difficulty than I
do on
this , because they see only one reality while I always
see
two . Brian sees both as well and justs casts the
subjective
aside . I don't cast it aside because I try to stay in
reasonable communication with others by understanding their
realities even if I don't always agree .I'm speaking , of
course
of each persons subjective aspects of their own realities .
To the extent that I have to deal with both I have
developed , over time , ways of dealing with the
subjective .
Sometimes , I just ignore it with respect to atheists .
Sometimes , I encourage it with respect to the application
of the law .
The key is not to believe that I can change
subjective
to objective reality .
Ledraychere
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gordge" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
21 Dec 2007 11:11:08 PM |
|
|
On Dec 22, 10:15=A0am, Ledraychere <LEDRAYCH...@gmail.com> wrote:
I =A0was =A0 aware
of two =A0realities =A0, =A0 not =A0one =A0.
So WHICH ONE of the two realities does that correspond to?
MG
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gordge" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
21 Dec 2007 11:34:10 PM |
|
|
On Dec 22, 10:15=A0am, Ledraychere <LEDRAYCH...@gmail.com> wrote:
I=A0keep
forgetting =A0that =A0others =A0have =A0more =A0difficulty =A0than =A0I > =
do=A0on this, because they see only one reality while
I always see two.
And I suppose, the reality of those two you always see, you dont
always see two of?
Have you taken your medication today?
MG
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ledraychere" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
22 Dec 2007 09:50:16 AM |
|
|
On Dec 22, 12:34=A0am, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
On Dec 22, 10:15=A0am, Ledraychere <LEDRAYCH...@gmail.com> wrote:
I=A0keep
forgetting =A0that =A0others =A0have =A0more =A0difficulty =A0than =A0I =
do=A0on this, because they see only one reality while
I always see two.
And I suppose, the reality of those two you always see, you dont
always see two of?
Have you taken your medication today?
MG
To Michael :
I find this hard to believe , but you just might be
beginning
to understand this a little bit . Once you can distinguish
between those things which are true (objective reality) and
those which are born in your own mind (subjective
reality ) ,
Brian would call this "know thyself" ; you will sometimes
encounter only one of these at a particular time .
Ledraychere
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gordge" |
|
| Title: Re: Serious question for believers |
22 Dec 2007 02:35:57 PM |
|
|
On Dec 23, 12:50=A0am, Ledraychere <LEDRAYCH...@gmail.com> wrote:
To =A0Michael =A0:
=A0 =A0 =A0I =A0find =A0this =A0hard =A0to =A0believe =A0, =A0but =A0you =
=A0just =A0might =A0be
beginning
to =A0understand =A0this =A0a little =A0bit =A0.
Calm down ewe patronizing idiot, you are grossly over-rating your
ability to understand yourself let alone anyone else.
=A0Once =A0 you.....
Dont worry about me sunshine, this is all about YOU and your "born" in
yours, or some other Kantian idiot's mind idea, that reality is born
in your mind. Care to give an example of reality that was born in your
mind, therefore with absolutely no link to the world existing outside
of your mind?
Michael Gordge
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
