On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:11 GMT, Don Kresch
<ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:

In alt.atheism on 13 Oct 2003 09:45:52 GMT, John W
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> let us all know that:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:46:20 GMT, Don Kresch
<ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:

In alt.atheism on 12 Oct 2003 15:09:38 GMT, John W
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> let us all know that:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:20:48 -0400, "Doug Semler"
<doug_semler@REMOVEMEwideopenwest.com> wrote:

In news:n6chov8eueqhqoa7u5qbjlmcaa19u0mj3h@4ax.com,
John <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> slavered, and posted this:

Define "miracle".

My $100 says if you ever saw a miracle, you'd know it.

Miracles, by definition, break natural law. Jesus walking on water
/levitating, Jesus raising a dead person after 4 days. Jesus healing a
lame man merely by commanding him to "get up!"

<sigh> Magicians do this all the time. They have been doing this for
THOUSANDS of years. That's how they became priests in ancient cultures.

< S I G H !! > I I can be childish, too) And the miracles of Jesus
were not/ are not "magic" which is trickery.

How then did Jesus raise a dead man who had been in the grave 4 days?

He didn't. The Lazarus story comes to us from Egypt, where his
name was el-azarus.

I wouldn't expect you to know that, though. You're not smart
enough to do research.

LOL! You're funny. I worked on 2 separate Master's programs
simultaneously as my grad school.

Which still tells me that you didn't do the research on the
Lazarus story.

Your bs about the Lazarus story coming from "elsewhere" was only
invented to discredit Christianity; a total waste of time.

Nope. That's a nice rationalization. And it it duly pissed on.


Don

Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:46:20 GMT, Don Kresch
<ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:

In alt.atheism on 12 Oct 2003 15:09:38 GMT, John W
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> let us all know that:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:20:48 -0400, "Doug Semler"
<doug_semler@REMOVEMEwideopenwest.com> wrote:

In news:n6chov8eueqhqoa7u5qbjlmcaa19u0mj3h@4ax.com,
John <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> slavered, and posted this:

Define "miracle".

My $100 says if you ever saw a miracle, you'd know it.

Miracles, by definition, break natural law. Jesus walking on water
/levitating, Jesus raising a dead person after 4 days. Jesus healing a
lame man merely by commanding him to "get up!"

<sigh> Magicians do this all the time. They have been doing this for
THOUSANDS of years. That's how they became priests in ancient cultures.

< S I G H !! > I I can be childish, too) And the miracles of Jesus
were not/ are not "magic" which is trickery.

How then did Jesus raise a dead man who had been in the grave 4 days?

He didn't. The Lazarus story comes to us from Egypt, where his
name was el-azarus.

I wouldn't expect you to know that, though. You're not smart
enough to do research.

LOL! You're funny. I worked on 2 separate Master's programs
simultaneously as my grad school.

And 3 different schools at the same time.

Your bs about the Lazarus story coming from "elsewhere" was only
invented to discredit Christianity; a total waste of time.

And your ad hominem is noted and duly pissed on.

I wouldn't expect you to know that, though. You're not smart
enough to do research.

LOL! You're funny. I worked on 2 separate Master's programs
simultaneously as my grad school.

And 3 different schools at the same time.

Your bs about the Lazarus story coming from "elsewhere" was only
invented to discredit Christianity; a total waste of time.

And your ad hominem is noted and duly pissed on.

John W

Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"

_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:20:48 -0400, "Doug Semler"
<doug_semler@REMOVEMEwideopenwest.com> wrote:

In news:n6chov8eueqhqoa7u5qbjlmcaa19u0mj3h@4ax.com,
John <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> slavered, and posted this:

Define "miracle".

My $100 says if you ever saw a miracle, you'd know it.

Miracles, by definition, break natural law. Jesus walking on water
/levitating, Jesus raising a dead person after 4 days. Jesus healing a
lame man merely by commanding him to "get up!"

<sigh> Magicians do this all the time. They have been doing this for
THOUSANDS of years. That's how they became priests in ancient cultures.

< S I G H !! > I I can be childish, too) And the miracles of Jesus
were not/ are not "magic" which is trickery.

How then did Jesus raise a dead man who had been in the grave 4 days?

What you can't explain you explain away.

Why bother? Just don't believe, and stop posting your turds in the
baptist group? We aren't interested!

John W

Not just stories, but real time miracles.

Or a few I've experience. I've literally felt the hand of God on my
body. I've witnessed a healing. I've survived having two guns pointed
at me, and I've survived witnessing a murder.

While the situations themselves are dangerous, they are by no means
unsurvivable. People have and do survive worse than having a couple guns
pointed at them, or witnessing a murder.

I've been in some 20
incidents in my life where I KNEW I wasn't going to survive; I'm still
here, 57 years later.

That's plain silly. Why are you still here if you KNEW you weren't
going to survive? Would it not be just as easy to presume that your
knowledge is incorrect, rather than "God got me out of it?"

You are too silly to correspond with. Why am I not surprised? You
aren't searching for anything but an argument. Play that game in the
atheist pit.

There are still miracles happening; however, in your current state of
dis-belief, you will hardly go to a church to witness one, will you?

I've been to church many times. I "witnessed" what they called
"miracles" over and over again.

If you are talking about "charismatic/pentecostal churches" you didn't
witness any miracles in one of those.

Oh, so miracles are limited to only YOUR particular sect.

That was a DUMB reaction! You assume SO MUCH. Do you see ANYTHING in
a pretender church that resembles what Jesus did or what the apostles
did? No! It's all trickery.

How about my mom being eaten alive with cancer, every classic symptom.
24 hours before her "exploratory surgery" our family held a prayer
vigil that probably involved 500 people around the world. When the
doctor opened her up "just to be sure", she had no cancer. She had
been healed.

Remission occurs in what, about 5% of all cancer patients.

Which simply means that you will accept ANY EXTREME explanation rather
tHan "God." You AREN'T INTERESTED! P E R I O D !!!

Bye! You've wasted enough of my time.

And your doctor

is a quack if he opened her up "just to be sure." I'll believe it is a
miracle if there is a published medical study on a tumor "disappearing"
in her. Preferably in NEJM.

How about deciding on how many pages, the color of the magazine cover,
and how many pictures. What makes you think that YOU make the rules
that govern God?

You have an ego the size of the Milky Way!

God HAS revealed himself to many.

God told me that I was imagining him.

You are a pathological liar, or you are a demoniac.

And we are done.


John W

I've seen Him more times than I've
seen YOU!!

Where? What did He look like? What was your mental state at the time?

YOur above remark tells me you aren't interested, and I have no time
or interest in playing. When/if you get serious, let me know.

Your remark tells me you do not want serious discussion.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:20:48 -0400, "Doug Semler"
<doug_semler@REMOVEMEwideopenwest.com> wrote:

In news:n6chov8eueqhqoa7u5qbjlmcaa19u0mj3h@4ax.com,
John <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> slavered, and posted this:

Define "miracle".

My $100 says if you ever saw a miracle, you'd know it.

Miracles, by definition, break natural law. Jesus walking on water
/levitating, Jesus raising a dead person after 4 days. Jesus healing a
lame man merely by commanding him to "get up!"

<sigh> Magicians do this all the time. They have been doing this for
THOUSANDS of years. That's how they became priests in ancient cultures.

< S I G H !! > I I can be childish, too) And the miracles of Jesus
were not/ are not "magic" which is trickery.

How then did Jesus raise a dead man who had been in the grave 4 days?

What you can't explain you explain away.

Miracles, by definition, break natural law. Jesus walking on water
/levitating, Jesus raising a dead person after 4 days. Jesus healing a
lame man merely by commanding him to "get up!"

<sigh> Magicians do this all the time. They have been doing this for
THOUSANDS of years. That's how they became priests in ancient cultures.

< S I G H !! > I I can be childish, too) And the miracles of Jesus
were not/ are not "magic" which is trickery.

How then did Jesus raise a dead man who had been in the grave 4 days?

What you can't explain you explain away.

Why bother? Just don't believe, and stop posting your turds in the
baptist group? We aren't interested!

If you are talking about "charismatic/pentecostal churches" you didn't
witness any miracles in one of those.

How about my mom being eaten alive with cancer, every classic symptom.
24 hours before her "exploratory surgery" our family held a prayer
vigil that probably involved 500 people around the world. When the
doctor opened her up "just to be sure", she had no cancer. She had
been healed.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:12:01 -0400, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:05:23 -0400, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

I've seen Him more times than I've
seen YOU!!

Where? What did He look like? What was your mental state at the time?

YOur above remark tells me you aren't interested, and I have no time
or interest in playing. When/if you get serious, let me know.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:12:01 -0400, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:05:23 -0400, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

Figinn wrote:

"raven1" <psychedelephant@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:6kdgovcum0ir1eqlcnn0gc8pj1omv3kirv@4ax.com...

On 11 Oct 2003 05:04:51 GMT, John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:28:47 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

On 10 Oct 2003 19:17:52 GMT in alt.atheism, John W (John W
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:07:11 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!

We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".

By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.

Short answer: No.

Good answer in as much as it tells me all I need to know.

Congratulations. Glad I made you happy. Now turn it around. Could I
reveal ANY FACT to you, ANY FACT whatever, that would cause you to
believe in God and in His Son?

Yes: tell me the serial number of the cordless phone on my computer
desk. Surely such a trivial matter would be easy for a supposedly
omniscient deity to communicate to you.

If that omniscient deity chose to answer ;)

If he wants us to believe.

There have been plenty of miracles to observe these past 2000 years.

Define "miracle".

My $100 says if you ever saw a miracle, you'd know it.

Miracles, by definition, break natural law. Jesus walking on water
/levitating, Jesus raising a dead person after 4 days. Jesus healing a
lame man merely by commanding him to "get up!"

Not just stories, but real time miracles.

Or a few I've experience. I've literally felt the hand of God on my
body. I've witnessed a healing. I've survived having two guns pointed
at me, and I've survived witnessing a murder. I've been in some 20
incidents in my life where I KNEW I wasn't going to survive; I'm still
here, 57 years later.

However, you need not concern yourself with MY miracles. Walk into a
Christian bookstore and look for the books on miracles.

There are still miracles happening; however, in your current state of
dis-belief, you will hardly go to a church to witness one, will you?

I've been to church many times. I "witnessed" what they called
"miracles" over and over again.

If you are talking about "charismatic/pentecostal churches" you didn't
witness any miracles in one of those.

How about my mom being eaten alive with cancer, every classic symptom.
24 hours before her "exploratory surgery" our family held a prayer
vigil that probably involved 500 people around the world. When the
doctor opened her up "just to be sure", she had no cancer. She had
been healed.

God HAS revealed himself to many.

God told me that I was imagining him.

I've seen Him more times than I've
seen YOU!!

Where? What did He look like? What was your mental state at the time?

YOur above remark tells me you aren't interested, and I have no time
or interest in playing. When/if you get serious, let me know.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:12:01 -0400, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

John wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:05:23 -0400, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

Figinn wrote:

"raven1" <psychedelephant@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:6kdgovcum0ir1eqlcnn0gc8pj1omv3kirv@4ax.com...

On 11 Oct 2003 05:04:51 GMT, John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:28:47 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

On 10 Oct 2003 19:17:52 GMT in alt.atheism, John W (John W
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:07:11 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!

We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of
various stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".

By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter
of fact, that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at
least beyond reasonable dispute, that would convince you
believers that there is no God.

Short answer: No.

Good answer in as much as it tells me all I need to know.

Congratulations. Glad I made you happy. Now turn it around. Could
I reveal ANY FACT to you, ANY FACT whatever, that would cause
you to believe in God and in His Son?

Yes: tell me the serial number of the cordless phone on my
computer desk. Surely such a trivial matter would be easy for a
supposedly omniscient deity to communicate to you.

If that omniscient deity chose to answer ;)

If he wants us to believe.

There have been plenty of miracles to observe these past 2000 years.

Define "miracle".

My $100 says if you ever saw a miracle, you'd know it.

Miracles, by definition, break natural law. Jesus walking on water
/levitating, Jesus raising a dead person after 4 days. Jesus healing a
lame man merely by commanding him to "get up!"

Not just stories, but real time miracles.

Or a few I've experience. I've literally felt the hand of God on my
body.

I've witnessed a healing.

I've survived having two guns pointed
at me,

and I've survived witnessing a murder.

I've been in some 20
incidents in my life where I KNEW I wasn't going to survive; I'm still
here, 57 years later.

However, you need not concern yourself with MY miracles. Walk into a
Christian bookstore and look for the books on miracles.

There are still miracles happening; however, in your current state
of dis-belief, you will hardly go to a church to witness one, will
you?

I've been to church many times. I "witnessed" what they called
"miracles" over and over again.

If you are talking about "charismatic/pentecostal churches" you didn't
witness any miracles in one of those.

How about my mom being eaten alive with cancer, every classic symptom.
24 hours before her "exploratory surgery" our family held a prayer
vigil that probably involved 500 people around the world. When the
doctor opened her up "just to be sure", she had no cancer. She had
been healed.

God HAS revealed himself to many.

God told me that I was imagining him.

I've seen Him more times than I've
seen YOU!!

Where? What did He look like? What was your mental state at the time?

YOur above remark tells me you aren't interested, and I have no time
or interest in playing. When/if you get serious, let me know.

Define "miracle".

My $100 says if you ever saw a miracle, you'd know it.

Miracles, by definition, break natural law. Jesus walking on water
/levitating, Jesus raising a dead person after 4 days. Jesus healing a
lame man merely by commanding him to "get up!"

Not just stories, but real time miracles.

Or a few I've experience. I've literally felt the hand of God on my
body.

I've witnessed a healing.

I've survived having two guns pointed
at me, and I've survived witnessing a murder.

I've been in some 20
incidents in my life where I KNEW I wasn't going to survive; I'm still
here, 57 years later.

However, you need not concern yourself with MY miracles. Walk into a
Christian bookstore and look for the books on miracles.

I've been to church many times. I "witnessed" what they called
"miracles" over and over again.

If you are talking about "charismatic/pentecostal churches" you didn't
witness any miracles in one of those.

How about my mom being eaten alive with cancer, every classic symptom.
24 hours before her "exploratory surgery" our family held a prayer
vigil that probably involved 500 people around the world. When the
doctor opened her up "just to be sure", she had no cancer. She had
been healed.

I've seen Him more times than I've
seen YOU!!

Where? What did He look like? What was your mental state at the time?

YOur above remark tells me you aren't interested, and I have no time
or interest in playing. When/if you get serious, let me know.

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:05:23 -0400, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

Figinn wrote:

"raven1" <psychedelephant@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:6kdgovcum0ir1eqlcnn0gc8pj1omv3kirv@4ax.com...

On 11 Oct 2003 05:04:51 GMT, John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:28:47 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

On 10 Oct 2003 19:17:52 GMT in alt.atheism, John W (John W
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:07:11 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!

We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".

By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.

Short answer: No.

Good answer in as much as it tells me all I need to know.

Congratulations. Glad I made you happy. Now turn it around. Could I
reveal ANY FACT to you, ANY FACT whatever, that would cause you to
believe in God and in His Son?

Yes: tell me the serial number of the cordless phone on my computer
desk. Surely such a trivial matter would be easy for a supposedly
omniscient deity to communicate to you.

If that omniscient deity chose to answer ;)

If he wants us to believe.

There have been plenty of miracles to observe these past 2000 years.
There are still miracles happening; however, in your current state of
dis-belief, you will hardly go to a church to witness one, will you?

God HAS revealed himself to many. I've seen Him more times than I've
seen YOU!!

If he wants us to believe.

There have been plenty of miracles to observe these past 2000 years.

There are still miracles happening;

however, in your current state of
dis-belief, you will hardly go to a church to witness one, will you?

God HAS revealed himself to many. I've seen Him more times than I've
seen YOU!!

"raven1" <psychedelephant@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:6kdgovcum0ir1eqlcnn0gc8pj1omv3kirv@4ax.com...

On 11 Oct 2003 05:04:51 GMT, John W <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:28:47 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

On 10 Oct 2003 19:17:52 GMT in alt.atheism, John W (John W
<john_weatherly47@yahoo.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:07:11 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!

We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".

By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.

Short answer: No.

Good answer in as much as it tells me all I need to know.

Congratulations. Glad I made you happy. Now turn it around. Could I
reveal ANY FACT to you, ANY FACT whatever, that would cause you to
believe in God and in His Son?

Yes: tell me the serial number of the cordless phone on my computer
desk. Surely such a trivial matter would be easy for a supposedly
omniscient deity to communicate to you.

If that omniscient deity chose to answer ;)