| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Therion Ware" |
| Date: |
10 Oct 2003 12:07:11 PM |
| Object: |
Serious Question. Honest. |
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
19 Oct 2003 06:24:45 PM |
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"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:rvp5pv0m7ndqgand979kvq97p7a53b8kth@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:55:10 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net>, Message ID:
<%aekb.90896$a16.22117@lakeread01> wrote in alt.atheism;
<blush> Thanks, but I also see that there are others who have a lot more
difficult times in life...the old saying (if you will forgive me)
"...there,
but for the Grace of God go I.." is often my thought when I observe that.
There is also the old saying "I once wept because I had no shoes, until I
saw a man with no feet."
Certainly, however, you're in the position where you can try to lighten
their burden.
....and I try to do so when I can...
/me much prefers tearing into jets and black boxes although that is a
thing of the past.
Having relatives in the military, and reletives who fly for a living, I
don't think that this is a thing of the past just yet <G>
Sadly, for me it is.
I am sorry to hear that...but remember this-you have experiences "slipping
the surly bonds of earth" that most of us dream of. Yes, I have flown on
aircraft as a passenger, but it is not the same (is it? <G>).
Buny
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
20 Oct 2003 08:34:38 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:24:45 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net>, Message ID:
<c_Ekb.94540$a16.31032@lakeread01> wrote in alt.atheism;
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:rvp5pv0m7ndqgand979kvq97p7a53b8kth@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:55:10 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net>, Message ID:
<%aekb.90896$a16.22117@lakeread01> wrote in alt.atheism;
<blush> Thanks, but I also see that there are others who have a lot more
difficult times in life...the old saying (if you will forgive me)
"...there,
but for the Grace of God go I.." is often my thought when I observe that.
There is also the old saying "I once wept because I had no shoes, until I
saw a man with no feet."
Certainly, however, you're in the position where you can try to lighten
their burden.
...and I try to do so when I can...
As do I.
/me much prefers tearing into jets and black boxes although that is a
thing of the past.
Having relatives in the military, and reletives who fly for a living, I
don't think that this is a thing of the past just yet <G>
Sadly, for me it is.
I am sorry to hear that...but remember this-you have experiences "slipping
the surly bonds of earth" that most of us dream of. Yes, I have flown on
aircraft as a passenger, but it is not the same (is it? <G>).
No no. I was never a pilot. I worked on black boxes and aircraft. The
pilots can go out and get shot at. If the plane comes back I fix it.
If the plane doesn't then hopefully the pilot does. (USAF)
When I was in Uncle Sam's 'Canoe Club' (USN) we were all in the (no pun
intended) same boat. There was a bright side to the whole thing though.
It was the knowledge that no matter *where* we were on the world's
oceans we were never more than seven miles from land. :).
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
21 Oct 2003 04:28:23 PM |
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"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:h339pvcckrgcj1gg9mchrur9lb81ia9njd@4ax.com...
No no. I was never a pilot. I worked on black boxes and aircraft. The
pilots can go out and get shot at. If the plane comes back I fix it.
If the plane doesn't then hopefully the pilot does. (USAF)
My dad was in maintainance.
When I was in Uncle Sam's 'Canoe Club' (USN) we were all in the (no pun
intended) same boat. There was a bright side to the whole thing though.
It was the knowledge that no matter *where* we were on the world's
oceans we were never more than seven miles from land. :).
<G> Having members of my family in every branch of the service (including
USCG), I grew up with the respect earned by our vets...as well as having
heard many interservice jokes. There is definately a sense of "no one can
beat up on my brother but me there"
Buny
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
22 Oct 2003 01:32:34 PM |
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On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:28:23 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net>, Message ID:
<_shlb.97806$a16.94000@lakeread01> wrote in alt.atheism;
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:h339pvcckrgcj1gg9mchrur9lb81ia9njd@4ax.com...
No no. I was never a pilot. I worked on black boxes and aircraft. The
pilots can go out and get shot at. If the plane comes back I fix it.
If the plane doesn't then hopefully the pilot does. (USAF)
My dad was in maintainance.
I was in avionics in the USAF. In the USN I was a shipboard
electrician.
When I was in Uncle Sam's 'Canoe Club' (USN) we were all in the (no pun
intended) same boat. There was a bright side to the whole thing though.
It was the knowledge that no matter *where* we were on the world's
oceans we were never more than seven miles from land. :).
<G> Having members of my family in every branch of the service (including
USCG), I grew up with the respect earned by our vets...as well as having
heard many interservice jokes. There is definately a sense of "no one can
beat up on my brother but me there"
Heheh....oh, just in case you didn't catch the 'from land' comment....
I didn't say it was 'dry.'.... (eyes twinkle)
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Bob White" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
25 Oct 2003 06:57:02 PM |
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"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:u6jdpvcd8uuvveul3173q5i69c4eh4udp2@4ax.com...
Heheh....oh, just in case you didn't catch the 'from land' comment....
I didn't say it was 'dry.'.... (eyes twinkle)
<groan>
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
26 Oct 2003 05:14:47 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:57:02 GMT, "Bob White" <threeball@hotmail.com>,
Message ID: <h5Emb.24511$9E1.75140@attbi_s52> wrote in alt.atheism;
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:u6jdpvcd8uuvveul3173q5i69c4eh4udp2@4ax.com...
Heheh....oh, just in case you didn't catch the 'from land' comment....
I didn't say it was 'dry.'.... (eyes twinkle)
<groan>
( chuckling ) Dark Humour is rife for many reasons. Survivability from
the bowels of the engineering spaces is low. Further, twenty years ago
the life expectancy of a DDG (destroyer-guided missile) was fifteen
minutes.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
15 Oct 2003 11:57:08 AM |
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On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:17:24 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net>, Message ID:
<r0Xib.86460$a16.30295@lakeread01> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:duglovkkc3vtfqr8r29o94chc9515mj4ba@4ax.com...
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:53:04 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net> ejaculated:
"D Wolf" <notan@emailadress.com> wrote in message
news:38peov0krv074j8d7qbmh3coqjbm98bsms@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:07:11 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
Sworn testimony of a person I saw dead and buried twenty years ago
showing up and telling me aobut it, not a day older then the aslt time
I saw her.
That would pretty much do it for me.
<G>
FWIW, this was actually adressed in the Bible itself. People asked if
someone could come back from the dead to prove God's words. Jesus said
something to the effect of, "If they wouldn't believe the prophets, what
makes you think that they would beleive someone back from the dead?"
I understand how this might add to "proof," but--as someone else stated
earlier--how do you know for sure that this would change your mind?
That's not really the point, is it? Your omniscient god knows what
would change D Wolf's mind and has failed to show it to her. Why is
that?
At the risk of coming across as a "blind believer"...I have to honestly
answer "I do not know, nor presume to know the mind of God." I truly wish I
did at times (and not just times like these).
<G>
God is mindless.......
Buny
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
14 Oct 2003 01:36:02 PM |
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SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Beowulf wrote in message
SumBuny ejaculated:
FWIW, this was actually adressed in the Bible itself. People asked if
someone could come back from the dead to prove God's words. Jesus said
something to the effect of, "If they wouldn't believe the prophets, what
makes you think that they would beleive someone back from the dead?"
I understand how this might add to "proof," but--as someone else stated
earlier--how do you know for sure that this would change your mind?
That's not really the point, is it? Your omniscient god knows what
would change D Wolf's mind and has failed to show it to her. Why is
that?
At the risk of coming across as a "blind believer"...I have to honestly
answer "I do not know, nor presume to know the mind of God." I truly wish I
did at times (and not just times like these).
How is that different than believing in no god at all? If you can't
understand your own god, and it's not predictable in any way, how is
it different than believing in randomness and calling it a god?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
14 Oct 2003 03:26:14 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:5bgoovc9t58la4jqoo4930s4fka6ljfc7b@4ax.com...
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Beowulf wrote in message
SumBuny ejaculated:
FWIW, this was actually adressed in the Bible itself. People asked if
someone could come back from the dead to prove God's words. Jesus
said
something to the effect of, "If they wouldn't believe the prophets,
what
makes you think that they would beleive someone back from the dead?"
I understand how this might add to "proof," but--as someone else
stated
earlier--how do you know for sure that this would change your mind?
That's not really the point, is it? Your omniscient god knows what
would change D Wolf's mind and has failed to show it to her. Why is
that?
At the risk of coming across as a "blind believer"...I have to honestly
answer "I do not know, nor presume to know the mind of God." I truly
wish I
did at times (and not just times like these).
How is that different than believing in no god at all? If you can't
understand your own god, and it's not predictable in any way, how is
it different than believing in randomness and calling it a god?
Who knows for certain that this is not what is happening? I understand what
has been taught--which includes that mere mortals are so much less in
understanding/knowledge/wisdom than the God we worship. This is my belief,
YMMV, of course <G>
Buny
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
14 Oct 2003 03:39:19 PM |
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"SumBuny" <sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net> wrote in
news:aVYib.86476$a16.78634@lakeread01:
"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:5bgoovc9t58la4jqoo4930s4fka6ljfc7b@4ax.com...
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Beowulf wrote in message
SumBuny ejaculated:
FWIW, this was actually adressed in the Bible itself. People
asked if someone could come back from the dead to prove God's
words. Jesus
said
something to the effect of, "If they wouldn't believe the
prophets,
what
makes you think that they would beleive someone back from the
dead?"
I understand how this might add to "proof," but--as someone else
stated
earlier--how do you know for sure that this would change your
mind?
That's not really the point, is it? Your omniscient god knows
what would change D Wolf's mind and has failed to show it to her.
Why is that?
At the risk of coming across as a "blind believer"...I have to
honestly answer "I do not know, nor presume to know the mind of
God." I truly
wish I
did at times (and not just times like these).
How is that different than believing in no god at all? If you can't
understand your own god, and it's not predictable in any way, how is
it different than believing in randomness and calling it a god?
Who knows for certain that this is not what is happening? I
understand what has been taught--which includes that mere mortals are
so much less in understanding/knowledge/wisdom than the God we
worship. This is my belief, YMMV, of course <G>
Buny
Lots of people are taught that. But does that make it correct?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
16 Oct 2003 05:55:47 AM |
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SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
At the risk of coming across as a "blind believer"...I have to honestly
answer "I do not know, nor presume to know the mind of God." I truly
wish I did at times (and not just times like these).
How is that different than believing in no god at all? If you can't
understand your own god, and it's not predictable in any way, how is
it different than believing in randomness and calling it a god?
Who knows for certain that this is not what is happening?
What, randomness?
I understand what has been taught--which includes that mere mortals
are so much less in understanding/knowledge/wisdom than the God we
worship. This is my belief, YMMV, of course <G>
Sounds like an idea made up by priests to get you to keep on
believing, despite the obvious inaction or unpredictability of some
invisible god. Looks like you fell for it.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
17 Oct 2003 03:13:27 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:t2usov47eji6u7i3eu1vrvlp5rderkfaka@4ax.com...
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
At the risk of coming across as a "blind believer"...I have to
honestly
answer "I do not know, nor presume to know the mind of God." I truly
wish I did at times (and not just times like these).
How is that different than believing in no god at all? If you can't
understand your own god, and it's not predictable in any way, how is
it different than believing in randomness and calling it a god?
Who knows for certain that this is not what is happening?
What, randomness?
I understand what has been taught--which includes that mere mortals
are so much less in understanding/knowledge/wisdom than the God we
worship. This is my belief, YMMV, of course <G>
Sounds like an idea made up by priests to get you to keep on
believing, despite the obvious inaction or unpredictability of some
invisible god. Looks like you fell for it.
Hey, if it helps me through the rough times of life...and convinces me to
help my fellow human beings...what is wrong with that?
Buny
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
18 Oct 2003 08:59:18 AM |
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SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
At the risk of coming across as a "blind believer"...I have to
honestly answer "I do not know, nor presume to know the mind
of God." I truly wish I did at times (and not just times like these).
How is that different than believing in no god at all? If you can't
understand your own god, and it's not predictable in any way, how is
it different than believing in randomness and calling it a god?
Who knows for certain that this is not what is happening?
What, randomness?
I understand what has been taught--which includes that mere mortals
are so much less in understanding/knowledge/wisdom than the God we
worship. This is my belief, YMMV, of course <G>
Sounds like an idea made up by priests to get you to keep on
believing, despite the obvious inaction or unpredictability of some
invisible god. Looks like you fell for it.
Hey, if it helps me through the rough times of life...and convinces me to
help my fellow human beings...what is wrong with that?
How exactly does it help you through the rough times of life, and
how would it be different if you didn't believe in some god?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
18 Oct 2003 11:52:48 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:ilh2pv4v4od66q037sur40i1i39uv77c2e@4ax.com...
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
Sounds like an idea made up by priests to get you to keep on
believing, despite the obvious inaction or unpredictability of some
invisible god. Looks like you fell for it.
Hey, if it helps me through the rough times of life...and convinces me
to
help my fellow human beings...what is wrong with that?
How exactly does it help you through the rough times of life, and
how would it be different if you didn't believe in some god?
At first thought, I could not honestly guess, since I have never done so.
Upon reflection, I think it is a way of putting order on the
disordered...the idea that something is controlling the universe, something
that is greater than me that has some idea of "the big picture". Perhaps it
is a vestigal remnant of childhood, but the idea is similar to when my kids
were younger (OK, even now when they are teens, but on different issues <G>)
that even if they could not control the world around them, there was comfort
in knowing that mom or dad was there to place limits/control on it. I am
more aware of this with my autistic son, who needs even more
routine/order/structure in his life to feel comfortable (i.e., the typical
person's world--with all the "gray area" of scheduling/structure/order, with
all the spur of the moment changes and exceptions to the rules--is chaos to
him). It has been sort of a "study" of how much we need either a sense of
order, or a sense that someone/something else is in control of that order
for us.
I don't know if this properly explains it, but it is the best I can do with
*my* perceptions of my own needs for faith.
Buny
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
19 Oct 2003 05:18:08 AM |
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SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
Sounds like an idea made up by priests to get you to keep on
believing, despite the obvious inaction or unpredictability of some
invisible god. Looks like you fell for it.
Hey, if it helps me through the rough times of life...and convinces me
to help my fellow human beings...what is wrong with that?
How exactly does it help you through the rough times of life, and
how would it be different if you didn't believe in some god?
At first thought, I could not honestly guess, since I have never done so.
Surely you haven't always believed in some god.
Upon reflection, I think it is a way of putting order on the
disordered...the idea that something is controlling the universe,
Given all the colliding galaxies, comets, meteors and asteroids
smashing into planets and moons, tornados, earthquakes, hurricanes,
floods, supernovas, etc, I don't see how you could manage to believe
there's some intelligent being controlling it all, especially if that
being is supposed to care about humans.
something that is greater than me that has some idea of "the big picture".
Perhaps it is a vestigal remnant of childhood, but the idea is similar to when my kids
were younger (OK, even now when they are teens, but on different issues <G>)
that even if they could not control the world around them, there was comfort
in knowing that mom or dad was there to place limits/control on it. I am
more aware of this with my autistic son, who needs even more
routine/order/structure in his life to feel comfortable (i.e., the typical
person's world--with all the "gray area" of scheduling/structure/order, with
all the spur of the moment changes and exceptions to the rules--is chaos to
him). It has been sort of a "study" of how much we need either a sense of
order, or a sense that someone/something else is in control of that order
for us.
How do you explain your son's autism? Your god likes it that way?
I don't know if this properly explains it, but it is the best I can do with
*my* perceptions of my own needs for faith.
Sounds like you're afraid of uncertainty to me, and perhaps of
taking control and responsibility for your own life as well.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
19 Oct 2003 06:21:31 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:oco4pv0mj29pnom33o5gc4ilcbbkrecnfk@4ax.com...
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
Sounds like an idea made up by priests to get you to keep on
believing, despite the obvious inaction or unpredictability of some
invisible god. Looks like you fell for it.
Hey, if it helps me through the rough times of life...and convinces me
to help my fellow human beings...what is wrong with that?
How exactly does it help you through the rough times of life, and
how would it be different if you didn't believe in some god?
At first thought, I could not honestly guess, since I have never done
so.
Surely you haven't always believed in some god.
I cannot remember a time I did not....being raised in Catholic Cajun
Louisiana, believing in God came along with believing that Mom and Dad and
the rest of the family would always be there to care for you...it has come
as naturally as breathing.
something that is greater than me that has some idea of "the big
picture".
Perhaps it is a vestigal remnant of childhood, but the idea is similar
to when my kids
were younger (OK, even now when they are teens, but on different issues
<G>)
that even if they could not control the world around them, there was
comfort
in knowing that mom or dad was there to place limits/control on it. I
am
more aware of this with my autistic son, who needs even more
routine/order/structure in his life to feel comfortable (i.e., the
typical
person's world--with all the "gray area" of scheduling/structure/order,
with
all the spur of the moment changes and exceptions to the rules--is chaos
to
him). It has been sort of a "study" of how much we need either a sense
of
order, or a sense that someone/something else is in control of that
order
for us.
How do you explain your son's autism? Your god likes it that way?
The same way that I explain his high intelligence as well...the "official"
diagnosis for him is ADHD/aspergers/gifted/sensory integration disorder (the
second is the autism)...
I don't know if this properly explains it, but it is the best I can do
with
*my* perceptions of my own needs for faith.
Sounds like you're afraid of uncertainty to me, and perhaps of
taking control and responsibility for your own life as well.
Perhaps I am frightened of uncertainty...as for not being responsible for my
life, I don't think so....considering what I am doing with my life, it is
rather responsible. Instead of allowing the schools to railroad my son into
self-contained special ed classes (which would smother his academic talents)
and insist that he would not amoutn to anything, I have advocated for his
educational rights--now he is at the top of his class (accellerated classes)
and is setting the bar on the annual placement tests. He is a star-ranked
Boy Scout (next rank is Life, and then Eagle). I volunteer in both sons'
schools, and volunteer my time to advocate for students with disabilities.
If there is a "reason" for my family situation, it may be that God wants me
to use my experiences and talents to help others--something I have always
done (through volunteering and through ministry in the church--God gave me
musical ability, so I am in my church choir as vocalist and instrumentalist,
and I teach others as well)....
What/how are your taking control of your life? Don't we all ask at some
point, "Why am I here?" I have direction in my life, and if religion has
helped me perceive it, is that wrong? If it doesn't affect you (unless you
are one of those I might have helped along the way? <G>), then why are you
bothered by my mental processes?
Buny
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
20 Oct 2003 08:30:57 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:21:31 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net>, Message ID:
<7XEkb.94539$a16.50710@lakeread01> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:oco4pv0mj29pnom33o5gc4ilcbbkrecnfk@4ax.com...
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
Sounds like an idea made up by priests to get you to keep on
believing, despite the obvious inaction or unpredictability of some
invisible god. Looks like you fell for it.
Hey, if it helps me through the rough times of life...and convinces me
to help my fellow human beings...what is wrong with that?
How exactly does it help you through the rough times of life, and
how would it be different if you didn't believe in some god?
At first thought, I could not honestly guess, since I have never done
so.
Surely you haven't always believed in some god.
I cannot remember a time I did not....being raised in Catholic Cajun
Louisiana, believing in God came along with believing that Mom and Dad and
the rest of the family would always be there to care for you...it has come
as naturally as breathing.
It does.
(snip)
How do you explain your son's autism? Your god likes it that way?
The same way that I explain his high intelligence as well...the "official"
diagnosis for him is ADHD/aspergers/gifted/sensory integration disorder (the
second is the autism)...
1 Thessalonians 5 (KJV)
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God
in Christ Jesus concerning you.
James 1
Trials and Temptations
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of
many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith develops
perseverance.
© Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
I don't know if this properly explains it, but it is the best I can do
with
*my* perceptions of my own needs for faith.
Sounds like you're afraid of uncertainty to me, and perhaps of
taking control and responsibility for your own life as well.
Perhaps I am frightened of uncertainty...
That has got to be difficult since life is uncertainty.
as for not being responsible for my
life, I don't think so....considering what I am doing with my life, it is
rather responsible. Instead of allowing the schools to railroad my son into
self-contained special ed classes (which would smother his academic talents)
and insist that he would not amoutn to anything, I have advocated for his
educational rights--now he is at the top of his class (accellerated classes)
and is setting the bar on the annual placement tests. He is a star-ranked
Boy Scout (next rank is Life, and then Eagle). I volunteer in both sons'
schools, and volunteer my time to advocate for students with disabilities.
If there is a "reason" for my family situation, it may be that God wants me
to use my experiences and talents to help others--something I have always
done (through volunteering and through ministry in the church--God gave me
musical ability, so I am in my church choir as vocalist and instrumentalist,
and I teach others as well)....
Such is rationinalization. It sounds to me you would be doing that
based on simple empathy and compassion.
What/how are your taking control of your life?
There are lots of things beyond my control. I don't sweat it.
Don't we all ask at some point, "Why am I here?"
You might when you're a theist. There's no motivation to do so
otherwise. Not all questions make sense. The "Why am I here" is right
next to "What is north of the North Pole."
I have direction in my life, and if religion has
helped me perceive it, is that wrong? If it doesn't affect you (unless you
are one of those I might have helped along the way? <G>), then why are you
bothered by my mental processes?
Buny
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Gregory A Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
20 Oct 2003 01:34:09 AM |
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:21:31 -0500, SumBuny
sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net said...
"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:oco4pv0mj29pnom33o5gc4ilcbbkrecnfk@4ax.com...
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
something that is greater than me that has some idea of
"the big picture". Perhaps it is a vestigal remnant of
childhood, but the idea is similar to when my kids
were younger (OK, even now when they are teens, but on
different issues <G>) that even if they could not control
the world around them, there was comfort in knowing that
mom or dad was there to place limits/control on it. I
am more aware of this with my autistic son, who needs even
more routine/order/structure in his life to feel comfortable
(i.e., the typical person's world--with all the "gray area"
of scheduling/structure/order, with all the spur of the
moment changes and exceptions to the rules--is chaos to
him). It has been sort of a "study" of how much we need
either a sense of order, or a sense that someone/something
else is in control of that order for us.
How do you explain your son's autism? Your god likes it that way?
The same way that I explain his high intelligence as well...the "official"
diagnosis for him is ADHD/aspergers/gifted/sensory integration disorder (the
second is the autism)...
So how do you explain your son's intelligence? A gift from
god? If so, is autism also a gift? If you think it is, then
I'd say that's a big problem with religion right there. That
would mean that you're so brainwashed that you think a bad
thing is good, as long as it comes from god.
Think about this, if you were god, and you were all knowing
and all powerful would you really give autism to someone? No
matter how many fringe benefits there may be to doing so,
isn't that a "gift" that only an evil being could give?
What/how are your taking control of your life? Don't we all ask at some
point, "Why am I here?" I have direction in my life, and if religion has
helped me perceive it, is that wrong? If it doesn't affect you (unless you
are one of those I might have helped along the way? <G>), then why are you
bothered by my mental processes?
Yes that's wrong.
It's wrong because you're not living in the real world and as
a result, you might not make decisions based on the factors
that they really ought to be based on. People have killed
others, they have committed all sorts of atrocities, because
they've thought that god wanted them to. Before the US Civil
War, people in the south believed that slavery was okay
because it's condoned in the bible.
Okay, admittedly, most people do not do evil in the name of
religion. But the danger is there. Religion makes you accept
things you shouldn't accept.
Think about the bible. Do you think that god did anything
evil in the bible? How about the story of Noah and the flood?
In that story god killed everyone on the planet, except one
family. The bible says that this was okay because those
people were all evil. Of course, we have no way of knowing if
that's true or not, we only have god's word to go by. If
Charles Manson said that all the people he killed were evil,
would you accept that excuse? Probably not, so why is it
accepted from god?
In the story, does god make any effort to warn the people
that they were in danger if they didn't reform? Did he ever
try to convince them that they should abandon their evil
ways? Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume
he did, what about the babies? Unless there was some sort of
moratorium on births prior to the flood, there must have been
babies that died in it. Were they evil too?
Alot of people fail to see that god is evil in that story and
many others like Exodus and Sodom and Gomorrah. You seem to
fail to see the evil in god giving your son autism. That's
why religion isn't good.
Greg the Reprobate
Missionary of Death
-------------------
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
20 Oct 2003 04:41:13 PM |
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"Gregory A Greenman" <see@sig.below> wrote in message
news:MPG.19fd3edd6dcbde82989acc@netnews.comcast.net...
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:21:31 -0500, SumBuny
sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net said...
"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:oco4pv0mj29pnom33o5gc4ilcbbkrecnfk@4ax.com...
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
something that is greater than me that has some idea of
"the big picture". Perhaps it is a vestigal remnant of
childhood, but the idea is similar to when my kids
were younger (OK, even now when they are teens, but on
different issues <G>) that even if they could not control
the world around them, there was comfort in knowing that
mom or dad was there to place limits/control on it. I
am more aware of this with my autistic son, who needs even
more routine/order/structure in his life to feel comfortable
(i.e., the typical person's world--with all the "gray area"
of scheduling/structure/order, with all the spur of the
moment changes and exceptions to the rules--is chaos to
him). It has been sort of a "study" of how much we need
either a sense of order, or a sense that someone/something
else is in control of that order for us.
How do you explain your son's autism? Your god likes it that way?
The same way that I explain his high intelligence as well...the
"official"
diagnosis for him is ADHD/aspergers/gifted/sensory integration disorder
(the
second is the autism)...
So how do you explain your son's intelligence? A gift from
god? If so, is autism also a gift? If you think it is, then
I'd say that's a big problem with religion right there. That
would mean that you're so brainwashed that you think a bad
thing is good, as long as it comes from god.
If you look at life as yin/yang, then one has to take the bad if one takes
the good. Yes, there are many times that the autism causes big problems for
my son--but there *are* times when it actually does good things--his
perceptions *are* different than others, there is no denying that. Because
his perception are different, he often can solve problems much faster than
his peers. If you have seen "Monk", you have seen what I mean. Forget the
OCD that Monk is dealing with--his sensory hypersensitivity and his "outside
the box" thinking allow him to solve problems/puzzles much faster than his
peers. I realise that this is a fictional character, but is is good as an
illustration. Some also think that Bill Gates might have asperger's
syndrome as well.
Actually, my son does not have problems with his autism--his has problems
with *other people* who cannot behave in a civil and predictable manner with
him. Those that are accepting of differences in others are the ones that
allow him to succeed--those that see only the autism (and think that it is
"bad") are the ones who constantly throw hurdles at him...
Think about this, if you were god, and you were all knowing
and all powerful would you really give autism to someone? No
matter how many fringe benefits there may be to doing so,
isn't that a "gift" that only an evil being could give?
It truly depends on what you think of when you hear "autism"...yes, it makes
him different--but not all with autism are nonverbal...I do not say he
"sufferes" from autism, though he does have to deal with it--more
specificially, he has to deal with others who are different than he is...
This is akin to saying, "OK, you have an IQ of 140...your child has an IQ of
120....'isn't that a gift that only an evil being could give?'..." (or,
insert any other difference--one person is athletic, the other has two left
feet, etc...)
I am not saying that this is easy--I *am* saying that the perception one has
of things makes a huge difference. There were teachers that thought he
would not amount to anything, that he would be best served in a
self-contained special ed class....when I ran into one last year, and she
told me that they were astounded with his successes in regular classes (he
is at the top of his class). "We had no idea..." Exactly--they only saw
him as handicapped, as suffering, as less than they...I chose to see the
potential...
What/how are your taking control of your life? Don't we all ask at some
point, "Why am I here?" I have direction in my life, and if religion
has
helped me perceive it, is that wrong? If it doesn't affect you (unless
you
are one of those I might have helped along the way? <G>), then why are
you
bothered by my mental processes?
Yes that's wrong.
It's wrong because you're not living in the real world and as
a result, you might not make decisions based on the factors
that they really ought to be based on. People have killed
others, they have committed all sorts of atrocities, because
they've thought that god wanted them to. Before the US Civil
War, people in the south believed that slavery was okay
because it's condoned in the bible.
Not all did, not all owned slaves....
Okay, admittedly, most people do not do evil in the name of
religion. But the danger is there. Religion makes you accept
things you shouldn't accept.
Think about the bible. Do you think that god did anything
evil in the bible? How about the story of Noah and the flood?
In that story god killed everyone on the planet, except one
family. The bible says that this was okay because those
people were all evil. Of course, we have no way of knowing if
that's true or not, we only have god's word to go by. If
Charles Manson said that all the people he killed were evil,
would you accept that excuse? Probably not, so why is it
accepted from god?
Just as one cannot have light without dark, up without down...one cannot
have good without evil....
Alot of people fail to see that god is evil in that story and
many others like Exodus and Sodom and Gomorrah. You seem to
fail to see the evil in god giving your son autism. That's
why religion isn't good.
You fail to see that someone with a difference can benefit...it seems that
anyone with a disability is defined by his disability. I choose otherwise.
I do not see autism, ADHD, sensory integration disorder, levels of
intellignce, etc as "good/bad"...what we choose to *do* with these things
that make us unique are good/bad...that is where you and I differ, and that
is what I have gleaned from religion...
Buny
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| User: "Gregory A Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
20 Oct 2003 05:49:21 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:41:13 -0500, SumBuny
sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net said...
"Gregory A Greenman" <see@sig.below> wrote in message
news:MPG.19fd3edd6dcbde82989acc@netnews.comcast.net...
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:21:31 -0500, SumBuny
sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net said...
"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:oco4pv0mj29pnom33o5gc4ilcbbkrecnfk@4ax.com...
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
something that is greater than me that has some idea of
"the big picture". Perhaps it is a vestigal remnant of
childhood, but the idea is similar to when my kids
were younger (OK, even now when they are teens, but on
different issues <G>) that even if they could not control
the world around them, there was comfort in knowing that
mom or dad was there to place limits/control on it. I
am more aware of this with my autistic son, who needs even
more routine/order/structure in his life to feel comfortable
(i.e., the typical person's world--with all the "gray area"
of scheduling/structure/order, with all the spur of the
moment changes and exceptions to the rules--is chaos to
him). It has been sort of a "study" of how much we need
either a sense of order, or a sense that someone/something
else is in control of that order for us.
How do you explain your son's autism? Your god likes it
that way?
The same way that I explain his high intelligence as well...the
"official" diagnosis for him is ADHD/aspergers/gifted/sensory
integration disorder (the second is the autism)...
So how do you explain your son's intelligence? A gift from
god? If so, is autism also a gift? If you think it is, then
I'd say that's a big problem with religion right there. That
would mean that you're so brainwashed that you think a bad
thing is good, as long as it comes from god.
If you look at life as yin/yang, then one has to take the bad if one takes
the good.
Fine. Don't look at life that way then. There's no reason an
all powerful god couldn't just do the good stuff and leave
out the bad.
Actually, my son does not have problems with his autism--his has problems
with *other people* who cannot behave in a civil and predictable manner with
him. Those that are accepting of differences in others are the ones that
allow him to succeed--those that see only the autism (and think that it is
"bad") are the ones who constantly throw hurdles at him...
I'm pleased to hear that your son's autism isn't the problem
I first imagined it must be. Perhaps we should use a
different example. My next door neighbor has Down's Syndrome.
She's a nice girl, but she'll never be able to take care of
herself. What sort of god could do that to her?
What/how are your taking control of your life? Don't we all ask
at some point, "Why am I here?" I have direction in my life, and
if religion has helped me perceive it, is that wrong? If it doesn't
affect you (unless you are one of those I might have helped along
the way? <G>), then why are you bothered by my mental processes?
Yes that's wrong.
It's wrong because you're not living in the real world and as
a result, you might not make decisions based on the factors
that they really ought to be based on. People have killed
others, they have committed all sorts of atrocities, because
they've thought that god wanted them to. Before the US Civil
War, people in the south believed that slavery was okay
because it's condoned in the bible.
Not all did, not all owned slaves....
Of course not 100% of the people cared that the bible
condones slavery. That doesn't invalidate the point. If those
people were free of their superstitions they might have
realized that slavery is wrong and we might not have had
thousands of people die in the Civil War.
Okay, admittedly, most people do not do evil in the name of
religion. But the danger is there. Religion makes you accept
things you shouldn't accept.
Think about the bible. Do you think that god did anything
evil in the bible? How about the story of Noah and the flood?
In that story god killed everyone on the planet, except one
family. The bible says that this was okay because those
people were all evil. Of course, we have no way of knowing if
that's true or not, we only have god's word to go by. If
Charles Manson said that all the people he killed were evil,
would you accept that excuse? Probably not, so why is it
accepted from god?
Just as one cannot have light without dark, up without down...one cannot
have good without evil....
Well that's not true at all. There's no cosmic balance of
good and evil. That is, if I do something good for someone,
something bad doesn't automatically happen somewhere to
offset it. (If it did, I wouldn't bother ever trying to do
anything good.) Thus, the level of good can be increased
without increasing the bad. Likewise, an all powerful god
could decrease the bad without reducing the good. Next time
an earthquake is supposed to happen, he could just skip it.
Alot of people fail to see that god is evil in that story and
many others like Exodus and Sodom and Gomorrah. You seem to
fail to see the evil in god giving your son autism. That's
why religion isn't good.
You fail to see that someone with a difference can benefit...it seems that
anyone with a disability is defined by his disability. I choose otherwise.
No. You're just rationalizing. Whatever benefits there are to
your son's condition could have been granted without any
negative side effects. In your son's case, perhaps those side
effects are not too great of a burden, but in many other
cases they are. When I went to church many, many years ago,
the preacher had a daughter with leukemia. She died when she
was just three or four (IIRC). You can argue that there were
benefits to this all you want, but as far as I can see, any
god that would do that to her is just plain evil.
Greg the Reprobate
Missionary of Death
-------------------
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
21 Oct 2003 04:37:43 PM |
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"Gregory A Greenman" <see@sig.below> wrote in message
news:MPG.19fe23684aba9de4989ad6@netnews.comcast.net...
Well that's not true at all. There's no cosmic balance of
good and evil. That is, if I do something good for someone,
something bad doesn't automatically happen somewhere to
offset it. (If it did, I wouldn't bother ever trying to do
anything good.) Thus, the level of good can be increased
without increasing the bad. Likewise, an all powerful god
could decrease the bad without reducing the good. Next time
an earthquake is supposed to happen, he could just skip it.
From the purely scientific viewpoint, that would be, um, bad....wouldn't it?
The longer one goes without and earthquake, the bigger the stress builds...
Buny
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
22 Oct 2003 01:30:21 PM |
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On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:37:43 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net>, Message ID:
<JBhlb.97825$a16.73910@lakeread01> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Gregory A Greenman" <see@sig.below> wrote in message
news:MPG.19fe23684aba9de4989ad6@netnews.comcast.net...
Well that's not true at all. There's no cosmic balance of
good and evil. That is, if I do something good for someone,
something bad doesn't automatically happen somewhere to
offset it. (If it did, I wouldn't bother ever trying to do
anything good.) Thus, the level of good can be increased
without increasing the bad. Likewise, an all powerful god
could decrease the bad without reducing the good. Next time
an earthquake is supposed to happen, he could just skip it.
From the purely scientific viewpoint, that would be, um, bad....wouldn't it?
The longer one goes without and earthquake, the bigger the stress builds...
It can be, yes. However, with deity, there is no need for earthquakes
and other phenomenon.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
21 Oct 2003 11:48:29 AM |
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SumBuny wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
Surely you haven't always believed in some god.
Upon reflection, I think it is a way of putting order on the
disordered...the idea that something is controlling the universe,
Given all the colliding galaxies, comets, meteors and asteroids
smashing into planets and moons, tornados, earthquakes, hurricanes,
floods, supernovas, etc, I don't see how you could manage to believe
there's some intelligent being controlling it all, especially if that
being is supposed to care about humans.
Why did you snip the above and not answer the question?
Do you just ignore all those things when it comes to your god, or do
you pretend that they're caused by some devil, or arch-enemy of your
god?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "D Wolf" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
12 Oct 2003 12:40:36 PM |
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:53:04 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net> wrote:
"D Wolf" <notan@emailadress.com> wrote in message
news:38peov0krv074j8d7qbmh3coqjbm98bsms@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:07:11 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
Sworn testimony of a person I saw dead and buried twenty years ago
showing up and telling me aobut it, not a day older then the aslt time
I saw her.
That would pretty much do it for me.
<G>
FWIW, this was actually adressed in the Bible itself. People asked if
someone could come back from the dead to prove God's words. Jesus said
something to the effect of, "If they wouldn't believe the prophets, what
makes you think that they would beleive someone back from the dead?"
Why would I belive someone I know and love when I refused to belive a
historical fictional character? : )
Think about it
DW
a#344
..
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
12 Oct 2003 01:43:18 PM |
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"D Wolf" <notan@emailadress.com> wrote in message
news:1a4jovkpri6tmmnh60g5ph2olabv2e81ob@4ax.com...
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:53:04 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net> wrote:
"D Wolf" <notan@emailadress.com> wrote in message
news:38peov0krv074j8d7qbmh3coqjbm98bsms@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:07:11 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
Sworn testimony of a person I saw dead and buried twenty years ago
showing up and telling me aobut it, not a day older then the aslt time
I saw her.
That would pretty much do it for me.
<G>
FWIW, this was actually adressed in the Bible itself. People asked if
someone could come back from the dead to prove God's words. Jesus said
something to the effect of, "If they wouldn't believe the prophets, what
makes you think that they would beleive someone back from the dead?"
Why would I belive someone I know and love when I refused to belive a
historical fictional character? : )
Think about it
I have...I ask you to do the same. Imagine someone that you know, someone
who is *dead*...showing up all of a sudden in your life. You know that he
is dead, that the dead do not come back to life...
Would you believe that this is not some sort of trick? Logic/science tells
you it is impossible...
Think about it.
Buny
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| User: "D Wolf" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
16 Oct 2003 08:10:56 PM |
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:43:18 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net> wrote:
I have...I ask you to do the same. Imagine someone that you know, someone
who is *dead*...showing up all of a sudden in your life. You know that he
is dead, that the dead do not come back to life...
Would you believe that this is not some sort of trick? Logic/science tells
you it is impossible...
Think about it.
No,
Faced with facts, and this would be some very harsh facts, "we had
secrets noone else knew" I'd have to modify or re evaluate my theories
in view of the evidence.
Its Christianity that says the "Holy Word" can't be argued with,
Science always changes as we learn more.
In scinece to learn more is a virtue in Christianity its a sin.
Dana W
a#344
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| User: "maf 1029" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
12 Oct 2003 04:02:45 PM |
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:43:18 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net> wrote:
Imagine someone that you know, someone
who is *dead*...showing up all of a sudden in your life. You know that he
is dead, that the dead do not come back to life...
Would you believe that this is not some sort of trick? Logic/science tells
you it is impossible...
Think about it.
Yeah, that same thing happened to Scott Summers, when his wife Jean
Grey died, and then this look-alike named Madelyn Pryor showed up, and
then Scxott maried her. Turned out that Maddie was a clone of Jean
Grey (Before she got her Phoenix powers), so the only diff between
Jean and Maddie was Maddie was just a run-of-the-mill psychokinetic
with limited telepathic abilities and Jean was a revved up
super-psychic who could handle Cain Marco (d/b/a Juggernaut, Professor
Xavier's insane half brother) and the Invisible Woman's son, Stormy,
who was also a super-psychic and did bad things (accidentally) to
Professor X.
So, coming back from the dead -- tricky stuff.
And don't even ask about what happened to Dr. Marlena Evans-Craig
-(possibly DiMera)-Brady, or Dorian Kramer-Lord-Callison-Vickers. Or
even Victoria Lord-Reilly-Buchannon-Buchannon-Carpenter.
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| User: "SumBuny" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
14 Oct 2003 01:13:45 PM |
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"maf 1029" <maf1029@hotmailabc.com> wrote in message
news:24gjovsok7iuk7md17vglg7d0ep574qvg7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:43:18 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net> wrote:
Imagine someone that you know, someone
who is *dead*...showing up all of a sudden in your life. You know that
he
is dead, that the dead do not come back to life...
Would you believe that this is not some sort of trick? Logic/science
tells
you it is impossible...
Think about it.
Yeah, that same thing happened to Scott Summers, when his wife Jean
Grey died, and then this look-alike named Madelyn Pryor showed up, and
then Scxott maried her. Turned out that Maddie was a clone of Jean
Grey (Before she got her Phoenix powers), so the only diff between
Jean and Maddie was Maddie was just a run-of-the-mill psychokinetic
with limited telepathic abilities and Jean was a revved up
super-psychic who could handle Cain Marco (d/b/a Juggernaut, Professor
Xavier's insane half brother) and the Invisible Woman's son, Stormy,
who was also a super-psychic and did bad things (accidentally) to
Professor X.
<G> Haven't read that far into X-men as of yet...
So, coming back from the dead -- tricky stuff.
And don't even ask about what happened to Dr. Marlena Evans-Craig
-(possibly DiMera)-Brady, or Dorian Kramer-Lord-Callison-Vickers. Or
even Victoria Lord-Reilly-Buchannon-Buchannon-Carpenter.
It has been years since I have watched this, but I *do* remember that one
cannot call Stephano dead--even *with* a body to show for it!!!
(I was at the World's fair in New Orleans one day when they were shooting
there--they used the daily parade to simulate a full-blown Mardi
Gras--poorly, IMHO--at all the gates was a disclaimer about "entrance to the
park constitutes your agreement to appear on film without compensation" or
something along those lines)
Buny
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| User: "maf 1029" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
15 Oct 2003 02:26:55 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:13:45 -0500, "SumBuny"
<sumbunyTHIS_DOES_NOT_BELONG_HERE@cox.net> wrote:
"maf 1029" <maf1029@hotmailabc.com> wrote in message
news:24gjovsok7iuk7md17vglg7d0ep574qvg7@4ax.com...
On S | | | | | |
