| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Therion Ware" |
| Date: |
10 Oct 2003 12:07:11 PM |
| Object: |
Serious Question. Honest. |
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
10 Oct 2003 09:14:47 PM |
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"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com...
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
If evidence is irrelevant, what prompted you to believe in a god in the
first place?
Does this mean you believe in god for no other reason than you believe you
GUESSED right?
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Dr. DuFonet" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
11 Oct 2003 11:14:28 AM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:NridnaNpT-zZ-BqiU-KYiA@io.com...
"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com...
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
If evidence is irrelevant, what prompted you to believe in a god in the
first place?
Does this mean you believe in god for no other reason than you believe you
GUESSED right?
I will answer for him since I am reacting negatively to the ruse post by
Mekkala equating belief with insanity. He has an emotional belief. There is
no logical arguement that can disprove it. Only on an emotional level --
hard to do in cyberspace since he is not getting drawn into it.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
15 Oct 2003 12:55:12 PM |
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On 11 Oct 2003, "Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> screwed up
his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:E%Vhb.6266$av5.3466@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:NridnaNpT-zZ-BqiU-KYiA@io.com...
"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com...
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of
fact, that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least
beyond reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that
there is no God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
If evidence is irrelevant, what prompted you to believe in a god in
the first place?
Does this mean you believe in god for no other reason than you
believe you GUESSED right?
I will answer for him since I am reacting negatively to the ruse post
by Mekkala equating belief with insanity.
Which post of mine were you referring to?
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "galia" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
10 Oct 2003 09:08:41 PM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:NridnaNpT-zZ-BqiU-KYiA@io.com...
"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com...
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
If evidence is irrelevant, what prompted you to believe in a god in the
first place?
Does this mean you believe in god for no other reason than you believe you
GUESSED right?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.....
Is your unbelief based on no other reason than to believe you GUESSED right?
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
11 Oct 2003 12:28:23 AM |
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"galia" <galia@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:MCJhb.90791$PD3.4860459@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:NridnaNpT-zZ-BqiU-KYiA@io.com...
"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com...
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of
fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is
no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
If evidence is irrelevant, what prompted you to believe in a god in the
first place?
Does this mean you believe in god for no other reason than you believe
you
GUESSED right?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.....
Is your unbelief based on no other reason than to believe you GUESSED
right?
No. If evidence is presented, I'm perfectly willing to believe. Thus
evidence is clearly NOT irrelevant to me.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
15 Oct 2003 12:54:02 PM |
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On 10 Oct 2003, "galia" <galia@netrover.com> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:MCJhb.90791$PD3.4860459@nnrp1.uunet.ca:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:NridnaNpT-zZ-BqiU-KYiA@io.com...
"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com...
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of
fact, that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least
beyond reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that
there is no God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
If evidence is irrelevant, what prompted you to believe in a god in
the first place?
Does this mean you believe in god for no other reason than you
believe you GUESSED right?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.....
Is your unbelief based on no other reason than to believe you GUESSED
right?
No, but then there are things that I could observe that would convince
me of the existence of God. Christopher Robin says there is no
conceivable scenario that would convince him that there is no God. He
put his foot in it -- Denis did not. Your retort is unreasonable, and
does not apply to Denis.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
13 Oct 2003 09:40:13 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:08:41 -0400, "galia" <galia@netrover.com>
ejaculated:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:NridnaNpT-zZ-BqiU-KYiA@io.com...
"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com...
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
If evidence is irrelevant, what prompted you to believe in a god in the
first place?
Does this mean you believe in god for no other reason than you believe you
GUESSED right?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.....
Is your unbelief based on no other reason than to believe you GUESSED right?
No, in my case it is based on the fact that I have not discovered any
god or god(s) despite many years of diligent searching. My lack of
belief is probably akin to your lack of belief in Santa Claus.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
11 Oct 2003 02:01:42 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:08:41 -0400, "galia" <galia@netrover.com>
wrote:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:NridnaNpT-zZ-BqiU-KYiA@io.com...
"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com...
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
If evidence is irrelevant, what prompted you to believe in a god in the
first place?
Does this mean you believe in god for no other reason than you believe you
GUESSED right?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.....
Is your unbelief based on no other reason than to believe you GUESSED right?
I don't understand what you mean; what guessing would be involved?
Thomas P.
"That there are manes, a subterranean kingdom, a ferryman with a long pole, and black frogs in the whirlpools
of the Styx; that so many thousand men could cross the waves in a single boat, today even children refuse to believe."
Juvenal
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| User: "xyzzy" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
10 Oct 2003 09:41:17 PM |
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"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable There is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
Are you saying that your "makeup" is somehow fundementally different
from an atheist's or say a Muslim's?
IOW, did your God create you so as to believe in him no matter what?
For if it's learned, I would assume you could at least acknowledge
that it can be unlearned. By claiming nothing that can be said or
shown can remove or alter your faith, you are admitting that your
faith is immutable and innate. This in turn means your God can not be
fair if he punishes or rewards his creations based on the deliberate
differences he created them with.
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| User: "Maverick" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
10 Oct 2003 05:10:38 PM |
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10/10/2003, around 09:15:30 PM, Christopher Robin wrote:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of
fact, that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is
no God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There is nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
Describe your god to me.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
10 Oct 2003 02:30:43 PM |
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On 10 Oct 2003, "Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> screwed up
his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is
no God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There is nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
In other words -- whether God is real or not -- he's real? Doesn't that
mean that the God-concept has just as much weight and validity as the
statement "I have green oozy morglewumpers on my tailbone"?
In other words, if absolutely nothing would convince you of the
nonexistence of God, it follows logically that the God-concept is not
subject to factual analysis.
If the God-concept is not dependent on objective fact, that means it's
entirely subjective, that is, it exists in your mind and your mind only.
If this God of yours exists only in your mind, and my mind is not your
mind, then it follows that this God-concept has no validity for me,
indeed that it is nothing but your own schizophrenic delusion.
So why are you talking about it? Aren't you worried that someone will
have you committed?
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "david asman" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
10 Oct 2003 03:18:12 PM |
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Mekkala wrote:
On 10 Oct 2003, "Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> screwed up
his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is
no God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There is nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
<ng's trimmed to alt.atheism, for this response>
In other words -- whether God is real or not -- he's real? Doesn't that
mean that the God-concept has just as much weight and validity as the
statement "I have green oozy morglewumpers on my tailbone"?
In other words, if absolutely nothing would convince you of the
nonexistence of God, it follows logically that the God-concept is not
subject to factual analysis.
I believe that is what he is saying. To avoid
a long drawn out messy xposted thread
between various religious groups and a.a.
I think we could just take his word on it.
Afterall if nothing can convince, trying to
logically argue about it with him doesn't
make much sense.
I understand what you are saying, because
the position of being absolutely certain that no
evidence can dissuade is faulty to begin with.
But arguing with someone who takes that position
is somewhat akin to shouting at the rain.
Dave
If the God-concept is not dependent on objective fact, that means it's
entirely subjective, that is, it exists in your mind and your mind only.
If this God of yours exists only in your mind, and my mind is not your
mind, then it follows that this God-concept has no validity for me,
indeed that it is nothing but your own schizophrenic delusion.
So why are you talking about it? Aren't you worried that someone will
have you committed?
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
13 Oct 2003 09:37:33 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:15:30 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> ejaculated:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable There is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
What if you're wrong? What rational process have you used to exclude
the possibility that there is only one god (unlike the christian
trinity) and that Mohammed is his prophet, which at the same time also
excludes all the other 10,000 non-Christian possibilities (Buddhism,
Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, pantheism, deism, Wicca, Asatru,
Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Shamanism, Judaism) and which also, at the
same time excludes all the other Christian sects besides yours. To
Seventh Day Adventists, Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and to
Jehovah's Witnesses it's heresy to say that Christ is god. To
Mormons, there are a plethora of gods, but they only have to do with
Father God. To Methodists, none of the pope's declarations made ex
cathedra are binding, whereas to Catholics they are.
Did you really just pick a god and go with it or did you rationally
exclude the possibilities to arrive at your particular idiosyncratic
form of Christianity?
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
13 Oct 2003 12:44:16 PM |
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"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1sdlovobiqiopm6himm52bvcnt373qc44i@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:15:30 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> ejaculated:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
What if you're wrong? What rational process have you used to exclude
the possibility that there is only one god (unlike the christian
trinity) and that Mohammed is his prophet, which at the same time also
excludes all the other 10,000 non-Christian possibilities (Buddhism,
Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, pantheism, deism, Wicca, Asatru,
Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Shamanism, Judaism) and which also, at the
same time excludes all the other Christian sects besides yours. To
Seventh Day Adventists, Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and to
Jehovah's Witnesses it's heresy to say that Christ is god. To
Mormons, there are a plethora of gods, but they only have to do with
Father God. To Methodists, none of the pope's declarations made ex
cathedra are binding, whereas to Catholics they are.
Did you really just pick a god and go with it or did you rationally
exclude the possibilities to arrive at your particular idiosyncratic
form of Christianity?
You one by one exclude all the other possibilities by either the laws of non
contradiction or self defeating premises within their worldviews. You may be
right that there are over 10,000 religions but there are only 7 worldviews
that these all fit into. I will list them.
Atheism There is no God
Agnosticism You cant know if there is a God
Theism God and the universe are different, God intervenes
Deism God and the universe are different but God is not
involved
Pantheism God and the universe are identical
Panentheism God and the universe are dependent on each other
Polytheism Ther are many finite Gods
So we do not have to know what each religion believes internally but what
they believe concerning overall reality which is called a worldview.
Since all worldviews except theism is either self defeating of contradictory
in their view of reality we need not concern ourselves with 9997 religions
and only with Christianity, Judism & Islam.
We must then examine the truth claims *within * these religious views
and the justification of these claims with supporting evidence.
What you ultimately end up with is that Christ is the final answer but
the effort to get there may take some time.
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
13 Oct 2003 04:36:15 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> thought hard and said:
Atheism There is no God
Wrong!
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustav Mahler are my Gods.
Madly Insane EAC Scientist.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
14 Oct 2003 06:33:41 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:36:15 -0500, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>,
Message ID: <bm6movc5ghaqafo3vunstc708rfj5coc6e@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> thought hard and said:
Atheism There is no God
Wrong!
At least "Randy" is consistent.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
15 Oct 2003 05:20:30 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<volp5mn8ncdm30@corp.supernews.com>...
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1sdlovobiqiopm6himm52bvcnt373qc44i@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:15:30 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> ejaculated:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
What if you're wrong? What rational process have you used to exclude
the possibility that there is only one god (unlike the christian
trinity) and that Mohammed is his prophet, which at the same time also
excludes all the other 10,000 non-Christian possibilities (Buddhism,
Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, pantheism, deism, Wicca, Asatru,
Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Shamanism, Judaism) and which also, at the
same time excludes all the other Christian sects besides yours. To
Seventh Day Adventists, Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and to
Jehovah's Witnesses it's heresy to say that Christ is god. To
Mormons, there are a plethora of gods, but they only have to do with
Father God. To Methodists, none of the pope's declarations made ex
cathedra are binding, whereas to Catholics they are.
Did you really just pick a god and go with it or did you rationally
exclude the possibilities to arrive at your particular idiosyncratic
form of Christianity?
You one by one exclude all the other possibilities by either the laws of non
contradiction or self defeating premises within their worldviews. You may be
right that there are over 10,000 religions but there are only 7 worldviews
that these all fit into. I will list them.
Atheism There is no God
Agnosticism You cant know if there is a God
Theism God and the universe are different, God intervenes
Deism God and the universe are different but God is not
involved
Pantheism God and the universe are identical
Panentheism God and the universe are dependent on each other
Polytheism Ther are many finite Gods
So we do not have to know what each religion believes internally but what
they believe concerning overall reality which is called a worldview.
Since all worldviews except theism is either self defeating of contradictory
in their view of reality
Hold it right thar, partner.
Except for atheism and agnosticism (by the definitions you use above),
those above claims all require extraordinary evidence. Besides a look
of wide-eyed wonder, do you have any evidence at all? And wexcept for
unsupported claims, how are any of these self-defeating or
inconsistent?
we need not concern ourselves with 9997 religions
and only with Christianity, Judism & Islam.
By fiat, I suppose? I would prefer just Buddhism, and skip the Western
religions. They are so much more literal, mean-spirited, and hostile
to the human spirit, dontcha think?
We must then examine the truth claims *within * these religious views
and the justification of these claims with supporting evidence.
What you ultimately end up with is that Christ is the final answer but
the effort to get there may take some time.
Um... no. Got any evidence?
--- Kermit
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
15 Oct 2003 12:59:47 PM |
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On 13 Oct 2003, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:volp5mn8ncdm30@corp.supernews.com:
You are very stupid, Randy, and I am very tired of you.
*plonk*
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized
I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
13 Oct 2003 02:03:49 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:44:16 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1sdlovobiqiopm6himm52bvcnt373qc44i@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:15:30 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> ejaculated:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
What if you're wrong? What rational process have you used to exclude
the possibility that there is only one god (unlike the christian
trinity) and that Mohammed is his prophet, which at the same time also
excludes all the other 10,000 non-Christian possibilities (Buddhism,
Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, pantheism, deism, Wicca, Asatru,
Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Shamanism, Judaism) and which also, at the
same time excludes all the other Christian sects besides yours. To
Seventh Day Adventists, Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and to
Jehovah's Witnesses it's heresy to say that Christ is god. To
Mormons, there are a plethora of gods, but they only have to do with
Father God. To Methodists, none of the pope's declarations made ex
cathedra are binding, whereas to Catholics they are.
Did you really just pick a god and go with it or did you rationally
exclude the possibilities to arrive at your particular idiosyncratic
form of Christianity?
You one by one exclude all the other possibilities by either the laws of non
contradiction or self defeating premises within their worldviews. You may be
right that there are over 10,000 religions but there are only 7 worldviews
that these all fit into. I will list them.
Atheism There is no God
Agnosticism You cant know if there is a God
Theism God and the universe are different, God intervenes
Deism God and the universe are different but God is not
involved
Pantheism God and the universe are identical
Panentheism God and the universe are dependent on each other
Polytheism Ther are many finite Gods
Please justify your assertion that this is a complete set.
So we do not have to know what each religion believes internally but what
they believe concerning overall reality which is called a worldview.
I'm well aware what a worldview is. I went to one of the few colleges
still actively promoting presuppositional apologetics.
Since all worldviews except theism is either self defeating of contradictory
in their view of reality
Would you care to support that assertion, Mr Schaeffer?
we need not concern ourselves with 9997 religions
and only with Christianity, Judism & Islam.
There are sects of Hinduism and paganism that are also monotheist.
Also, ancient Egyptian Atenism (started by pharoah Amenhotep IV) was a
monotheist religion. As far as I know Bahai is also monotheist.
Why exclude them? You've just started you appear to already be making
ad hoc exclusions.
We must then examine the truth claims *within * these religious views
and the justification of these claims with supporting evidence.
So, what's the supporting evidence for Islam that you found in your
extensive studies? What about the evidence for Atenism? After all,
you excluded it above on some rational basis, right?
What you ultimately end up with is that Christ is the final answer but
the effort to get there may take some time.
Would you care to show your work? I studied about, prayed to, and
worshipped Christ for many years and what I ultimately ended up with
was the conclusion that Christ is a myth and the Christian worldview
does not model reality.
Show me the rational argument that proves I'm mistaken in my
conclusion, please.
--
Jesus is my crush.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
13 Oct 2003 02:26:03 PM |
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"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6pslovg3bpum303i6tet49jmm1h4vri7ag@4ax.com...
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:44:16 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1sdlovobiqiopm6himm52bvcnt373qc44i@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:15:30 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> ejaculated:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of
fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is
no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
What if you're wrong? What rational process have you used to exclude
the possibility that there is only one god (unlike the christian
trinity) and that Mohammed is his prophet, which at the same time also
excludes all the other 10,000 non-Christian possibilities (Buddhism,
Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, pantheism, deism, Wicca, Asatru,
Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Shamanism, Judaism) and which also, at the
same time excludes all the other Christian sects besides yours. To
Seventh Day Adventists, Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and to
Jehovah's Witnesses it's heresy to say that Christ is god. To
Mormons, there are a plethora of gods, but they only have to do with
Father God. To Methodists, none of the pope's declarations made ex
cathedra are binding, whereas to Catholics they are.
Did you really just pick a god and go with it or did you rationally
exclude the possibilities to arrive at your particular idiosyncratic
form of Christianity?
You one by one exclude all the other possibilities by either the laws of
non
contradiction or self defeating premises within their worldviews. You may
be
right that there are over 10,000 religions but there are only 7
worldviews
that these all fit into. I will list them.
Atheism There is no God
Agnosticism You cant know if there is a God
Theism God and the universe are different, God
intervenes
Deism God and the universe are different but God is
not
involved
Pantheism God and the universe are identical
Panentheism God and the universe are dependent on each other
Polytheism Ther are many finite Gods
Please justify your assertion that this is a complete set.
Name others.
So we do not have to know what each religion believes internally but what
they believe concerning overall reality which is called a worldview.
I'm well aware what a worldview is. I went to one of the few colleges
still actively promoting presuppositional apologetics.
Presuppositional apologetics is the problem, should of studied classical
apologetics which starts with first principles and not with the
presupossition that God exists.
Since all worldviews except theism is either self defeating of
contradictory
in their view of reality
Would you care to support that assertion, Mr Schaeffer?
More like Mr Aquinas.
we need not concern ourselves with 9997 religions
and only with Christianity, Judism & Islam
There are sects of Hinduism and paganism that are also monotheist.
Also, ancient Egyptian Atenism (started by pharoah Amenhotep IV) was a
monotheist religion. As far as I know Bahai is also monotheist.
Why exclude them? You've just started you appear to already be making
ad hoc exclusions.
I would suggest that these may not be montheistic in the classical sense,
especially Bahia.
We must then examine the truth claims *within * these religious views
and the justification of these claims with supporting evidence.
So, what's the supporting evidence for Islam that you found in your
extensive studies? What about the evidence for Atenism? After all,
you excluded it above on some rational basis, right?
What you ultimately end up with is that Christ is the final answer
but
the effort to get there may take some time.
Would you care to show your work? I studied about, prayed to, and
worshipped Christ for many years and what I ultimately ended up with
was the conclusion that Christ is a myth and the Christian worldview
does not model reality.
Show me the rational argument that proves I'm mistaken in my
conclusion, please.
--
To try and do an entire cousrse in classical apologetics would be
impractical. Since you say that the Christian theist worldview does not
model reality, maybe we could just answer certain questions that concern us
both. You go first if you like.
.
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| User: "John Hattan" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
13 Oct 2003 04:31:53 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6pslovg3bpum303i6tet49jmm1h4vri7ag@4ax.com...
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:44:16 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
You one by one exclude all the other possibilities by either the laws of
non
contradiction or self defeating premises within their worldviews. You may
be
right that there are over 10,000 religions but there are only 7
worldviews
that these all fit into. I will list them.
Atheism There is no God
Agnosticism You cant know if there is a God
Theism God and the universe are different, God
intervenes
Deism God and the universe are different but God is
not
involved
Pantheism God and the universe are identical
Panentheism God and the universe are dependent on each other
Polytheism Ther are many finite Gods
Please justify your assertion that this is a complete set.
Name others.
God is 50% of the universe.
There is a god only on thursday.
There is a god who intervenes, but only on Saturn.
There are many infinite gods.
There is a god who used up 62% of his power to create the universe, so
he's only 38% of a god now.
[continue endlessly]
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
john@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
13 Oct 2003 02:57:43 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:26:03 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6pslovg3bpum303i6tet49jmm1h4vri7ag@4ax.com...
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:44:16 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1sdlovobiqiopm6himm52bvcnt373qc44i@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:15:30 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> ejaculated:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of
fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is
no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
What if you're wrong? What rational process have you used to exclude
the possibility that there is only one god (unlike the christian
trinity) and that Mohammed is his prophet, which at the same time also
excludes all the other 10,000 non-Christian possibilities (Buddhism,
Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, pantheism, deism, Wicca, Asatru,
Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Shamanism, Judaism) and which also, at the
same time excludes all the other Christian sects besides yours. To
Seventh Day Adventists, Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and to
Jehovah's Witnesses it's heresy to say that Christ is god. To
Mormons, there are a plethora of gods, but they only have to do with
Father God. To Methodists, none of the pope's declarations made ex
cathedra are binding, whereas to Catholics they are.
Did you really just pick a god and go with it or did you rationally
exclude the possibilities to arrive at your particular idiosyncratic
form of Christianity?
You one by one exclude all the other possibilities by either the laws of
non
contradiction or self defeating premises within their worldviews. You may
be
right that there are over 10,000 religions but there are only 7
worldviews
that these all fit into. I will list them.
Atheism There is no God
Agnosticism You cant know if there is a God
Theism God and the universe are different, God
intervenes
Deism God and the universe are different but God is
not
involved
Pantheism God and the universe are identical
Panentheism God and the universe are dependent on each other
Polytheism Ther are many finite Gods
Please justify your assertion that this is a complete set.
Name others.
Not my job. You made an assertion. I'd like you to back it up.
So we do not have to know what each religion believes internally but what
they believe concerning overall reality which is called a worldview.
I'm well aware what a worldview is. I went to one of the few colleges
still actively promoting presuppositional apologetics.
Presuppositional apologetics is the problem, should of studied classical
apologetics which starts with first principles and not with the
presupossition that God exists.
You've not characterized presuppositional apologetics accurately as I
understand it. Either way, let's concede we're both aware of what a
worldview is.
Since all worldviews except theism is either self defeating of contradictory
in their view of reality
Would you care to support that assertion, Mr Schaeffer?
More like Mr Aquinas.
The question still stands. Do you care to support the assertion that
all other worldviews except theism are self-defeating?
we need not concern ourselves with 9997 religions
and only with Christianity, Judism & Islam
There are sects of Hinduism and paganism that are also monotheist.
Also, ancient Egyptian Atenism (started by pharoah Amenhotep IV) was a
monotheist religion. As far as I know Bahai is also monotheist.
Why exclude them? You've just started you appear to already be making
ad hoc exclusions.
I would suggest that these may not be montheistic in the classical sense,
especially Bahia.
So, you're moving the goalposts now?
Monotheism means simply "belief in one god". Let's drop Bahai for
ease of discussion. You have excluded at least three other broad
forms of monotheism (based on the definition above) on, what appears
to be, an ad hoc basis. Please justify their exclusion from the list
of monotheisms to be considered.
We must then examine the truth claims *within * these religious views
and the justification of these claims with supporting evidence.
So, what's the supporting evidence for Islam that you found in your
extensive studies? What about the evidence for Atenism? After all,
you excluded it above on some rational basis, right?
What you ultimately end up with is that Christ is the final answer but
the effort to get there may take some time.
Would you care to show your work? I studied about, prayed to, and
worshipped Christ for many years and what I ultimately ended up with
was the conclusion that Christ is a myth and the Christian worldview
does not model reality.
Show me the rational argument that proves I'm mistaken in my
conclusion, please.
To try and do an entire cousrse in classical apologetics would be
impractical. Since you say that the Christian theist worldview does not
model reality, maybe we could just answer certain questions that concern us
both. You go first if you like.
You claimed to have used a rational method to slice away all the
thousands of competing god claims to rest on a single interpretation
(out of thousands) of one religion (out of thousands). I'd like to
see what that process was. I'm willing to read a number of pages if
you really have something to offer.
I don't see the point in you trying to dodge my question by drawing me
out into a personal dialogue. I lack belief in the Christian myth.
My lack of belief comes from a well-informed position on what the
doctrines of Christianity are and are not. As such I don't have any
burning questions that I need Randy Story to sort out for me.
What does interest me is the rational process you used to arrive at
your conclusion that your particular brand of Christianity (probably a
subset of Catholicism, I'm guessing) is the One True Faith to the
exclusion of the thousands of others.
.
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| User: "Kevin Anthoney" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
13 Oct 2003 03:50:56 PM |
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Beowulf wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:26:03 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6pslovg3bpum303i6tet49jmm1h4vri7ag@4ax.com...
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:44:16 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1sdlovobiqiopm6himm52bvcnt373qc44i@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:15:30 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> ejaculated:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of
fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there
is
no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable
There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
What if you're wrong? What rational process have you used to exclude
the possibility that there is only one god (unlike the christian
trinity) and that Mohammed is his prophet, which at the same time
also excludes all the other 10,000 non-Christian possibilities
(Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, pantheism, deism, Wicca,
Asatru, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Shamanism, Judaism) and which also,
at the
same time excludes all the other Christian sects besides yours. To
Seventh Day Adventists, Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and
to
Jehovah's Witnesses it's heresy to say that Christ is god. To
Mormons, there are a plethora of gods, but they only have to do with
Father God. To Methodists, none of the pope's declarations made ex
cathedra are binding, whereas to Catholics they are.
Did you really just pick a god and go with it or did you rationally
exclude the possibilities to arrive at your particular idiosyncratic
form of Christianity?
You one by one exclude all the other possibilities by either the laws
of
non
contradiction or self defeating premises within their worldviews. You
may
be
right that there are over 10,000 religions but there are only 7
worldviews
that these all fit into. I will list them.
Atheism There is no God
Agnosticism You cant know if there is a God
Theism God and the universe are different, God
intervenes
Deism God and the universe are different but God
is
not
involved
Pantheism God and the universe are identical
Panentheism God and the universe are dependent on each other
Polytheism Ther are many finite Gods
Please justify your assertion that this is a complete set.
Name others.
Not my job. You made an assertion. I'd like you to back it up.
Solipsism? I guess that could be interpreted as the belief that the believer
is God.
Or there's the belief that life (collectively) is God. Not that I know
anyone with such a belief (I just made it up) but it's an acceptable
viewpoint.
I think Frank Tipler put forward the idea that computers would eventually
get so powerful that they could easily simulate the whole of human
existance in a virtual world, and that this computer would be God.
Then there's Last Thursdayism...
--
Kevin Anthoney
kanthoney[a]dsl.pipex.com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
14 Oct 2003 06:33:02 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:50:56 +0100, Kevin Anthoney
<kevin_anthoney@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<3f8b1031$0$23958$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Beowulf wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:26:03 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
(snip)
I think Frank Tipler put forward the idea that computers would eventually
get so powerful that they could easily simulate the whole of human
existance in a virtual world, and that this computer would be God.
"The God Machine" by Martin Cadin.
"Collossus: The Forbin Project" by, iirc, D.F. Jones.
Then there's Last Thursdayism...
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
14 Oct 2003 06:47:12 PM |
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stoney wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:50:56 +0100, Kevin Anthoney
<kevin_anthoney@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<3f8b1031$0$23958$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Beowulf wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:26:03 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
(snip)
I think Frank Tipler put forward the idea that computers would eventually
get so powerful that they could easily simulate the whole of human
existance in a virtual world, and that this computer would be God.
"The God Machine" by Martin Cadin.
"Collossus: The Forbin Project" by, iirc, D.F. Jones.
Just about anything by Jack Chalker. The interminable "Well of Souls"
series in particular.
--
Fred Stone
Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
15 Oct 2003 10:48:32 AM |
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On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:47:12 -0400, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>,
Message ID: <vop2nhkdqmtubf@news.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
stoney wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:50:56 +0100, Kevin Anthoney
<kevin_anthoney@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<3f8b1031$0$23958$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Beowulf wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:26:03 -0700, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> ejaculated:
(snip)
I think Frank Tipler put forward the idea that computers would eventually
get so powerful that they could easily simulate the whole of human
existance in a virtual world, and that this computer would be God.
"The God Machine" by Martin Cadin.
"Collossus: The Forbin Project" by, iirc, D.F. Jones.
Just about anything by Jack Chalker. The interminable "Well of Souls"
series in particular.
Ouch. How did I forget Mr. Chalker? Indeed, the "Well of Souls" the '5
rings series" too.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
14 Oct 2003 06:18:43 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:44:16 -0700, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com>,
Message ID: <volp5mn8ncdm30@corp.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Beowulf" <beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1sdlovobiqiopm6himm52bvcnt373qc44i@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:15:30 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> ejaculated:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable There
is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
What if you're wrong? What rational process have you used to exclude
the possibility that there is only one god (unlike the christian
trinity) and that Mohammed is his prophet, which at the same time also
excludes all the other 10,000 non-Christian possibilities (Buddhism,
Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, pantheism, deism, Wicca, Asatru,
Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Shamanism, Judaism) and which also, at the
same time excludes all the other Christian sects besides yours. To
Seventh Day Adventists, Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and to
Jehovah's Witnesses it's heresy to say that Christ is god. To
Mormons, there are a plethora of gods, but they only have to do with
Father God. To Methodists, none of the pope's declarations made ex
cathedra are binding, whereas to Catholics they are.
Did you really just pick a god and go with it or did you rationally
exclude the possibilities to arrive at your particular idiosyncratic
form of Christianity?
You one by one exclude all the other possibilities by either the laws of non
contradiction or self defeating premises within their worldviews. You may be
right that there are over 10,000 religions but there are only 7 worldviews
that these all fit into. I will list them.
Atheism There is no God
Good thing the above is merely your 'lie in stock.'
Proverbs 6 (kjv)
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea,
seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands
that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
(snip)
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Serious Question. Honest. |
11 Oct 2003 09:23:18 PM |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:15:30 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<mzDhb.116568$xx4.18951135@twister.neo.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:pfpdovkugui5rg9okmo44bojfolmn13o2s@4ax.com...
Message originates from alt.atheism. You have been warned!
We Godless atheists are sometimes asked by believers of various
stripe: "what would convince you there is a God?".
By the same token I'm curious to know is there is any matter of fact,
that if shown beyond any doubt to be true, or at least beyond
reasonable dispute, that would convince you believers that there is no
God.
In simple fact... no. Nothing. God is not scientifically provable There is
nothing you could say/show that would remove my faith.
Interesting. So you wouldn't pay attention to your own Bible then.
Note: I'm working with the conversation data and not suggesting you
should leave your faith.
/me who is trying very hard to walk the neutral line.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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