| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Words Of Truth" |
| Date: |
03 Mar 2005 04:42:46 PM |
| Object: |
Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
That the universe is fine-tuned for life. The atheist is forced to
extraordinary lengths to deny this, e.g an infinite number of
universes, etc.
That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
mathematical laws of the universe: "the most incomprehensible thing
about the universe is that it is comprehensible".
That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
adequate.
That the vast majority of human beings always have (and still do, even
in advanced Western societies where naturalistic evolution has been
compulsorily taught to the exclusion of Intelligent Design/Creation),
reject fully naturalistic evolution and believe in some form of
Intelligent Design/Creation.
The existence of the Israel, the Bible and Christianity are facts
(indeed among the most important facts of human history) for which
there is no adequate naturalistic explanation.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/faqdscwd.html
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| User: "Mike Rhino" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
03 Mar 2005 08:50:17 PM |
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"Words Of Truth" <wordsoftruth117@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2f709fe3.0503031442.312d67c4@posting.google.com...
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Let's assume for a moment that the universe/earth/animals/man were designed.
How many designers were there? You may think that you know the answer, but
it does not following logically from the intelligent designer argument. The
intelligent designer argument does not answer the following questions:
1. Are the designers, good, evil, mixed, or neutral?
2. Is there life after death for humans?
3. Do the designers care about humans?
4. Is the designer of the universe the same as the designer of earth,
animals, and man?
5. What is the life span of a designer?
6. Are they still alive?
If our universe was designed, that would imply that the designer(s) live in
some other universe. Switching back and forth between the following two
positions doesn't change a person's life:
1. There is no God.
2. There is no God who does anything for humans or asks anything from
humans.
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| User: "Jeff Findley" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
04 Mar 2005 10:06:30 AM |
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"Words Of Truth" <wordsoftruth117@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2f709fe3.0503031442.312d67c4@posting.google.com...
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
Plonk!
Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
03 Mar 2005 05:56:53 PM |
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"Words Of Truth" <wordsoftruth117@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2f709fe3.0503031442.312d67c4@posting.google.com...
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
There's something. That's a brute fact. We don't know how it got here.
That's another brute fact.
That the universe is fine-tuned for life. The atheist is forced to
extraordinary lengths to deny this, e.g an infinite number of
universes, etc.
Not at all. All we have to do is demand evidence that it's fine tuned for
life rather than the other way around.
It seems, rather, to be fine tuned for vaccum and hard radiation.
That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
mathematical laws of the universe: "the most incomprehensible thing
about the universe is that it is comprehensible".
What's that got to do with anything?
That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
The purpose being surviving its environment well enough to get to breeding
age and breeding. That's what you'd expect to see according to evolution.
That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
adequate.
Lack of omniscience on our part does not indicate a necessity for a god.
That the vast majority of human beings always have (and still do, even
in advanced Western societies where naturalistic evolution has been
compulsorily taught to the exclusion of Intelligent Design/Creation),
reject fully naturalistic evolution and believe in some form of
Intelligent Design/Creation.
There's no reason lots of people can't be wrong.
The existence of the Israel, the Bible and Christianity are facts
(indeed among the most important facts of human history) for which
there is no adequate naturalistic explanation.
Now you're just insane.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
03 Mar 2005 06:20:16 PM |
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(Words Of Truth) wrote in
news:2f709fe3.0503031442.312d67c4@posting.google.com:
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
That the universe is fine-tuned for life. The atheist is forced to
extraordinary lengths to deny this, e.g an infinite number of
universes, etc.
That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
mathematical laws of the universe: "the most incomprehensible thing
about the universe is that it is comprehensible".
That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
adequate.
That the vast majority of human beings always have (and still do, even
in advanced Western societies where naturalistic evolution has been
compulsorily taught to the exclusion of Intelligent Design/Creation),
reject fully naturalistic evolution and believe in some form of
Intelligent Design/Creation.
The existence of the Israel, the Bible and Christianity are facts
(indeed among the most important facts of human history) for which
there is no adequate naturalistic explanation.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/faqdscwd.html
Bwahahahahahaha. Are you naturally this stupid or did you work at it?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Jim Alder" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
03 Mar 2005 05:45:42 PM |
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(Words Of Truth) wrote in
news:2f709fe3.0503031442.312d67c4@posting.google.com:
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
Lol! Okay, be sure to get back to us when you DON'T have more important
things to do than flesh out your unifying theory of the universe.
This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
But then who would explain it?
That the universe is fine-tuned for life. The atheist is forced to
extraordinary lengths to deny this, e.g an infinite number of
universes, etc.
"Fine-tuned for life"? Oh, you mean the planet is well suited for the
life that developed here over millions of years? That life starting as a
single cell and adapting millions of times over the course of the millennia
is somehow now almost perfectly suited to its environment? Wow, it's a
miracle!!
That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
mathematical laws of the universe: "the most incomprehensible thing
about the universe is that it is comprehensible".
Mathematics? The science developed again over at least hundreds of
years, depending on who you want to start with, is instinctive? I wonder
why it took so long and why so few people understand it, then?
That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
What's the function of the duckbilled platypus?
And try not to steal any Robin Williams material.
That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
adequate.
Says you. Maybe your brain just isn't 'pre-adapted' to get it.
That the vast majority of human beings always have (and still do, even
in advanced Western societies where naturalistic evolution has been
compulsorily taught to the exclusion of Intelligent Design/Creation),
reject fully naturalistic evolution and believe in some form of
Intelligent Design/Creation.
"According to a famous story, when someone pointed out that his
customers had reason to be angry because freaks in his show were fakes,
Barnum replied, 'There’s a sucker born every minute.' "
http://www.bartleby.com/59/8/barnumphinea.html
The existence of the Israel, the Bible and Christianity are facts
(indeed among the most important facts of human history) for which
there is no adequate naturalistic explanation.
The Israel? I think if you look at most human groups, tribes and
civilizations since the beginning of mankind. you will find that they all
had gods and supernatural beings to explain things they couldn't yet
explain. Most of humanity has learned to understand the sun, moon and
stars, but many people are still reticent to relinquish their grip on that
last one god.
But hey, looking forward to seeing how you flesh these out.
--
"'The American President' - In this movie, Michael Douglas plays Bill
Clinton as Clinton would like to be - handsome, thin,courageous, liberal
and widowed." - Ann Coulter in "How to Talk to a Liberal"
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
03 Mar 2005 06:04:32 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, Words Of Truth poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", ...
Translation: Here are my seven Arguments from Ignorance.
... (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
Snorf !!
Thanks for playing. Don't forget to pick up your consolation prize on
your way out.
....
Regards,
Josef
Sometimes it's too late to win. But it's never too late to lose.
-- Tom Warson
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
03 Mar 2005 06:30:52 PM |
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On 3 Mar 2005 14:42:46 -0800, (Words Of
Truth) wrote:
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
Then STFU until you do.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
04 Mar 2005 02:38:44 PM |
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On 3 Mar 2005 14:42:46 -0800, (Words Of Truth)
wrote:
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
Otherwise, you first have to explain who designed the creator.
That the universe is fine-tuned for life.
It is?
Then answer me two questions.
1: Where else in the universe is there life?
2: Why is it, that even on our own planed, there are huge areas, perhaps 3/4 of
the surface, where we cannot survive, without technological help?
That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
mathematical laws of the universe:
Can you offer some scientific evidence to support that; whatever it means.
That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
Out of context quote. Do try to be more honest.
That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
adequate.
Irrelevant.
Our ignorance is not evidence of a creator.
That the vast majority of human beings always have (and still do, even
in advanced Western societies where naturalistic evolution has been
compulsorily taught to the exclusion of Intelligent Design/Creation),
reject fully naturalistic evolution and believe in some form of
Intelligent Design/Creation.
So what?
Argumentum ad numerum, is just another logical fallacy
By your argument: One third of the world is xtian, that means that two thirds of
the world aint. As the majority aint xtian, xtianity is false.
The existence of the Israel, the Bible and Christianity are facts
(indeed among the most important facts of human history) for which
there is no adequate naturalistic explanation.
I suggest that you read a little more of the history of your religion, and how
it was spread.
There is VERY adequate explanation.
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan
January 27th
Na bister 500,000
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
04 Mar 2005 07:06:04 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:42:46 -0800, Words Of Truth wrote:
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually. This
was posted to my Internet discussion group, CreationEvolutionDesign for
debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
I know this is troll-baiting, but I just can't resist!
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
Actually, "there was nothing" is not an explanation of anything, simple or
otherwise. We don't know why it exists, but it apparently does. Occam's
Razor applies to explaining things in the Universe.
That the universe is fine-tuned for life. The atheist is forced to
extraordinary lengths to deny this, e.g an infinite number of universes,
etc.
That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
mathematical laws of the universe: "the most incomprehensible thing
about the universe is that it is comprehensible".
This is the one that tickles me. We have invented a system of mathematics
that can be used to describe the Universe. It is a surprise that we
understand the math we have created?
We do not understand the universe very well. We have uncovered a few
simple laws, but there is a lot that is yet to be understood. Have you
ever heard of quantum mechanics? The most brilliant minds in history
don't understand QM, they just know how to apply it.
That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
Yawn.
That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
adequate.
....while supernaturalistic theories are? Double yawn.
That the vast majority of human beings always have (and still do, even
in advanced Western societies where naturalistic evolution has been
compulsorily taught to the exclusion of Intelligent Design/Creation),
reject fully naturalistic evolution and believe in some form of
Intelligent Design/Creation.
You are REALLY embarrassing yourself!
The existence of the Israel, the Bible and Christianity are facts
(indeed among the most important facts of human history) for which there
is no adequate naturalistic explanation.
Boy, you sure sold me! Where do I send my check?
http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/faqdscwd.html
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Paul Hovnanian P.E." |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
03 Mar 2005 07:40:52 PM |
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One would have thought that an intelligent designer could have whipped
up a brighter batch of followers.
:-/
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
One World, One Web, One Program - Microsoft Promotional Ad
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler
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| User: "geopelia" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
06 Mar 2005 03:35:09 PM |
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"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:4227BCA4.3B570FF8@Hovnanian.com...
One would have thought that an intelligent designer could have whipped
up a brighter batch of followers.
:-/
Hear, hear!
The design process is still going on. We are more intelligent than the
earlier hominids.
Unfortunately, we are approaching extinction. Pollution, global warming,
technology gone wrong, declining fertility etc, and perhaps a stray
asteroid, who knows?
Let's hope the Intelligent Designer can do something about it, and not
simply pick another species, (like the rat!) for his great design.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
One World, One Web, One Program - Microsoft Promotional Ad
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler
One church, one faith, one Lord - old hymn
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| User: "Paul Hovnanian P.E." |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
06 Mar 2005 09:28:34 PM |
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geopelia wrote:
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:4227BCA4.3B570FF8@Hovnanian.com...
One would have thought that an intelligent designer could have whipped
up a brighter batch of followers.
:-/
Hear, hear!
The design process is still going on. We are more intelligent than the
earlier hominids.
Unfortunately, we are approaching extinction. Pollution, global warming,
technology gone wrong, declining fertility etc, and perhaps a stray
asteroid, who knows?
Let's hope the Intelligent Designer can do something about it, and not
simply pick another species, (like the rat!) for his great design.
As with the last version of hominid, a newer and stronger version will
be produced. It will propagate throughout the world, displacing homo
sapiens as they displaced the Neanderthals. This new man will originate
in Africa, where the previous versions also originated. This is due to
Africa's greater genetic diversity and because it appears that most
evolutionary changes in species have been triggered by environmental
stress.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students.
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| User: "Lars Kecke" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
07 Mar 2005 05:23:25 AM |
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Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
As with the last version of hominid, a newer and stronger version will
be produced.
It will propagate throughout the world, displacing homo
sapiens as they displaced the Neanderthals.
So far ACK.
This new man will originate
in Africa, where the previous versions also originated. This is due to
Africa's greater genetic diversity and because it appears that most
evolutionary changes in species have been triggered by environmental
stress.
well, the biggest environmental stress so far has been urbanization, and
not surprisingly many of us westeners are already quite far away from
basic human stock. Take the myopia-left-handedness-mathematical ability
complex for an example; it is a killer in undeveloped environments but a
real advantage in highly automated ones. Maybe we will navigate
ourselves into a dead end with this (2 children/couple that have to be
100% success is quite risky, and genetic engineering will always try to
improve the individual and not the population) and then of course it
will be Africa's turn.
Lars
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| User: "geopelia" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
07 Mar 2005 05:44:15 AM |
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"Lars Kecke" <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote in message
news:422C39AD.4090107@physik.uni-freiburg.de...
Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
As with the last version of hominid, a newer and stronger version will
be produced.
It will propagate throughout the world, displacing homo
sapiens as they displaced the Neanderthals.
So far ACK.
This new man will originate
in Africa, where the previous versions also originated. This is due to
Africa's greater genetic diversity and because it appears that most
evolutionary changes in species have been triggered by environmental
stress.
well, the biggest environmental stress so far has been urbanization, and
not surprisingly many of us westeners are already quite far away from
basic human stock. Take the myopia-left-handedness-mathematical ability
complex for an example; it is a killer in undeveloped environments but a
real advantage in highly automated ones. Maybe we will navigate
ourselves into a dead end with this (2 children/couple that have to be
100% success is quite risky, and genetic engineering will always try to
improve the individual and not the population) and then of course it
will be Africa's turn.
Lars
So much of the African population is now HIV positive that unless a version
of human with natural resistance to it turns up, the chance of a new species
developing is very unlikely.
Geopelia
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| User: "Lars Kecke" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
07 Mar 2005 06:31:21 AM |
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geopelia wrote:
So much of the African population is now HIV positive that unless a version
of human with natural resistance to it turns up, the chance of a new species
developing is very unlikely.
:-) This should be easy enough. The Africans developed sickle cell
anemia to cope with Malaria. IIRC the first HIV-resistant (though Hep C
vulnerable) individuals have been sighted.
Lars
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| User: "geopelia" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
07 Mar 2005 03:17:16 PM |
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"Lars Kecke" <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote in message
news:422C4999.4080905@physik.uni-freiburg.de...
geopelia wrote:
So much of the African population is now HIV positive that unless a
version
of human with natural resistance to it turns up, the chance of a new
species
developing is very unlikely.
:-) This should be easy enough. The Africans developed sickle cell
anemia to cope with Malaria. IIRC the first HIV-resistant (though Hep C
vulnerable) individuals have been sighted.
Lars
Sickle cell anemia is fine until you get two copies of the gene!
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| User: "Lars Kecke" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
08 Mar 2005 03:49:15 AM |
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geopelia wrote:
"Lars Kecke" <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote in message
:-) This should be easy enough. The Africans developed sickle cell
anemia to cope with Malaria. IIRC the first HIV-resistant (though Hep C
vulnerable) individuals have been sighted.
Sickle cell anemia is fine until you get two copies of the gene!
Yes it is a bit of an ugly hack (most emergency measures are) but an
infant mortality of 25% due to gene defects might be a better deal than
a high mortality rate years later (but still before maturity) due to
disease.
Lars
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| User: "z" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
06 Mar 2005 08:59:34 PM |
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Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
geopelia wrote:
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:4227BCA4.3B570FF8@Hovnanian.com...
One would have thought that an intelligent designer could have
whipped
up a brighter batch of followers.
:-/
Hear, hear!
The design process is still going on. We are more intelligent than
the
earlier hominids.
Unfortunately, we are approaching extinction. Pollution, global
warming,
technology gone wrong, declining fertility etc, and perhaps a stray
asteroid, who knows?
Let's hope the Intelligent Designer can do something about it, and
not
simply pick another species, (like the rat!) for his great design.
As with the last version of hominid, a newer and stronger version
will
be produced. It will propagate throughout the world, displacing homo
sapiens as they displaced the Neanderthals. This new man will
originate
in Africa, where the previous versions also originated. This is due
to
Africa's greater genetic diversity and because it appears that most
evolutionary changes in species have been triggered by environmental
stress.
Evolution doesn't work that way; the critter who's on top of the world
at a given moment isn't replaced by an improved relative, but usually
by some way different critter who comes up with a very different
lifestyle which fits the situation better. From dinosaurs to mammals,
not to improved dinosaurs.
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| User: "geopelia" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
07 Mar 2005 03:34:14 PM |
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"z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in message
news:1110164374.079238.70460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
geopelia wrote:
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:4227BCA4.3B570FF8@Hovnanian.com...
One would have thought that an intelligent designer could have
whipped
up a brighter batch of followers.
:-/
Hear, hear!
The design process is still going on. We are more intelligent than
the
earlier hominids.
Unfortunately, we are approaching extinction. Pollution, global
warming,
technology gone wrong, declining fertility etc, and perhaps a stray
asteroid, who knows?
Let's hope the Intelligent Designer can do something about it, and
not
simply pick another species, (like the rat!) for his great design.
As with the last version of hominid, a newer and stronger version
will
be produced. It will propagate throughout the world, displacing homo
sapiens as they displaced the Neanderthals. This new man will
originate
in Africa, where the previous versions also originated. This is due
to
Africa's greater genetic diversity and because it appears that most
evolutionary changes in species have been triggered by environmental
stress.
Evolution doesn't work that way; the critter who's on top of the world
at a given moment isn't replaced by an improved relative, but usually
by some way different critter who comes up with a very different
lifestyle which fits the situation better. From dinosaurs to mammals,
not to improved dinosaurs.
What mammal could live and breed on the Antarctic continent, except the
seals, right on the coast? The "improved dinosaur", the Emperor penguin,
lives in conditions that would quickly kill any mammal, surviving months of
starvation as it broods its eggs.
The dinosaurs and their improved descendants, the birds, are probably the
greatest life form that has ever existed, filling every niche on the planet.
We are only now starting to realise just how intelligent they are, too. Who
knows what the future may hold for them?
Geopelia
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| User: "island" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
07 Mar 2005 06:14:05 AM |
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z wrote:
Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
geopelia wrote:
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:4227BCA4.3B570FF8@Hovnanian.com...
One would have thought that an intelligent designer could have
whipped
up a brighter batch of followers.
:-/
Hear, hear!
The design process is still going on. We are more intelligent
than
the
earlier hominids.
Unfortunately, we are approaching extinction. Pollution, global
warming,
technology gone wrong, declining fertility etc, and perhaps a
stray
asteroid, who knows?
Let's hope the Intelligent Designer can do something about it,
and
not
simply pick another species, (like the rat!) for his great
design.
As with the last version of hominid, a newer and stronger version
will
be produced. It will propagate throughout the world, displacing
homo
sapiens as they displaced the Neanderthals. This new man will
originate
in Africa, where the previous versions also originated. This is due
to
Africa's greater genetic diversity and because it appears that most
evolutionary changes in species have been triggered by
environmental
stress.
Evolution doesn't work that way; the critter who's on top of the
world
at a given moment isn't replaced by an improved relative, but usually
by some way different critter who comes up with a very different
lifestyle which fits the situation better. From dinosaurs to mammals,
not to improved dinosaurs.
Or from ape to man, maybe we are inducing our own next leap?... I find
this facinating, because we're keeping up with time, in terms of the
second law of thermodynamics, per the arrow of time in an expanding
universe that has an increasing negative pressure component.
Our ability to expend energy more efficiently was enabled by the leap
which puts a form of stress on the environment that dinosaurs could
never hope to attain, (except as smoke from my muffler... ;).
This fits with my understanding that the predominant entropic bias of
the expanding universe is running the show at a much deeper level than
people want to recognize, where increases in complexity and order
simply represent compounded increases in the potential for disorder
that manifest as emergent properties which enhance the system's ability
to increase the entropy of the universe at an order of magnitude that
will keep up with, but not exceed the increasing demand of expansion.
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| User: "Eric Chomko" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
04 Mar 2005 12:25:34 PM |
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Words Of Truth (wordsoftruth117@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
: Stephen E. Jones
: Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
: nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
: got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
: This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
: CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
: That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
: Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation by
: God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
: simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
False! An explanation is evidence that there is no such thing as nothing.
An explanation doesn't require an intelligent being, just that there is
more than nothing.
: That the universe is fine-tuned for life. The atheist is forced to
: extraordinary lengths to deny this, e.g an infinite number of
: universes, etc.
Fine-tuned? We have only found one location that has life out of several
dozen possibilities.
: That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
: mathematical laws of the universe: "the most incomprehensible thing
: about the universe is that it is comprehensible".
Which says nothing about the existence or not of God.
: That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
: designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
Which could simply be an illusion or fit the need for the human brain to
create order out of chaos.
: That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
: adequate.
But neither is any explanation where a supreme being as the creator.
: That the vast majority of human beings always have (and still do, even
: in advanced Western societies where naturalistic evolution has been
: compulsorily taught to the exclusion of Intelligent Design/Creation),
: reject fully naturalistic evolution and believe in some form of
: Intelligent Design/Creation.
??
: The existence of the Israel, the Bible and Christianity are facts
: (indeed among the most important facts of human history) for which
: there is no adequate naturalistic explanation.
Beliefs not proven facts.
: http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/faqdscwd.html
You are allowed to believe what you want, but don't think that you have
proven anything.
Eric
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| User: "island" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
05 Mar 2005 04:44:26 PM |
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Words Of Truth wrote:
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I
haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation
by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
Moron
That the universe is fine-tuned for life. The atheist is forced to
extraordinary lengths to deny this, e.g an infinite number of
universes, etc.
This is true, but that's just a knee-jerk reaction to commonly
projected fanaticism by creationists extremists, like yourslef.
Instead of looking for any obvious good reason why intelligent life
might be physically required in the evolutionary process of our
universe, they typically make their own "leap of faith" to whatever
unobserved an unevidenced theoretical ***** that they can pull out
of semi-understood physics.
That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
mathematical laws of the universe: "the most incomprehensible thing
about the universe is that it is comprehensible".
Einstein was tuned into nature like few others. He also said that
"god" doesn't throw dice', but he was talking about nature. If humans
are "set-up" to perceive patterns in a preferred manner, then it's
because they are a part of nature, which projects them this way.
That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
The term "Purpose" is a teleological manifestion of a functional
system.
That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
adequate.
No, that's false, even if our "purpose" in nature can be defined.
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| User: "snex" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
03 Mar 2005 06:03:46 PM |
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Words Of Truth wrote:
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I
haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation
by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
this is equally as much a problem for the theist. why should there be
god, as opposed to nothing?
<snip>
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| User: "Secular Fundamentalist" |
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| Title: Seven examples of clueless fuckwittery. |
03 Mar 2005 08:35:34 PM |
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Words Of Truth wrote:
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
That the universe is fine-tuned for life. The atheist is forced to
extraordinary lengths to deny this, e.g an infinite number of
universes, etc.
That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
mathematical laws of the universe: "the most incomprehensible thing
about the universe is that it is comprehensible".
That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
adequate.
That the vast majority of human beings always have (and still do, even
in advanced Western societies where naturalistic evolution has been
compulsorily taught to the exclusion of Intelligent Design/Creation),
reject fully naturalistic evolution and believe in some form of
Intelligent Design/Creation.
The existence of the Israel, the Bible and Christianity are facts
(indeed among the most important facts of human history) for which
there is no adequate naturalistic explanation.
ROTFLMAO.
--
David Silverman F.L.A.H.N.
aa #2208
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| User: "Bama Brian" |
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| Title: Re: Seven Clues To The Work Of An Intelligent Designer |
04 Mar 2005 07:25:09 AM |
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Words Of Truth wrote:
Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer
Stephen E. Jones
Here are my "Seven clues to the work of an Intelligent Designer in
nature", (who I personally believe to be the Christian God). I haven't
got time to flesh them out or support them, but I will eventually.
This was posted to my Internet discussion group,
CreationEvolutionDesign for debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/5008
That there is something rather than nothing. The atheists often cite
Occam's Razor as a reason for rejecting Intelligent Design/Creation by
God on the grounds that it is not the simplest explanation. But the
simplest explanation would be that there was nothing!
This proves nothing at all. If there were not something, we wouldn't be
around to perceive it. You're getting awfully close to solipsism with
your statement.
That the universe is fine-tuned for life. The atheist is forced to
extraordinary lengths to deny this, e.g an infinite number of
universes, etc.
More properly, life on this planet has fine tuned itself to fit into all
of the possible ecological niches.
That our human minds are pre-adapted to understand the underlying
mathematical laws of the universe: "the most incomprehensible thing
about the universe is that it is comprehensible".
Proving only the old saw that, "Man is a rationalizing animal, not a
rational one.".
That living things do in fact "give the appearance of having been
designed for a purpose" (Dawkins, 1986).
More properly, they fine tuned (designed) themselves to fit into every
ecological niche. What purpose do you find in a giant tube worm that
lives in boiling hot water by a hot smoker vent at the bottom of the sea?
That no naturalistic theory of the origin and evolution of life is
adequate.
This is nonsense. Adequate to what? To explain life to the religious?
In that, there is no evidence whatsoever that will do the job.
That the vast majority of human beings always have (and still do, even
in advanced Western societies where naturalistic evolution has been
compulsorily taught to the exclusion of Intelligent Design/Creation),
reject fully naturalistic evolution and believe in some form of
Intelligent Design/Creation.
Just shows how dumbed down some folks are. Look, if we took the Bible
literally, there are a number of things we'd be doing without. Among
them are: Modern medicine; genetic research; space exploration;
electricity; aircraft; automobiles; computers; movies; and so on.
The history of "true believers" has been a history of repression and
warfare. Let's try to remember the past so we don't have to repeat it.
The existence of the Israel, the Bible and Christianity are facts
(indeed among the most important facts of human history) for which
there is no adequate naturalistic explanation.
The Bible - and Christianity in general are both pastiches of earlier
beliefs and creation myths. For example, Zeus, the old hairy thunderer,
was believed to seduce human women, thereby having a large number of
half-divine children of whom Hercules was one example. Similarly,
Jehovah impregnated Mary, resulting in Jesus.
Jesus wasn't even born on Christmas. Those shepherds "out tending their
flocks by night" were out there during the lambing season - the spring.
But Christmas was moved to the year's end to coincide with earlier
pagan festivals.
But the Creationists will say any lie and ignore any evidence in order
to sound convincing.
--
Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian
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