| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"words of truth" |
| Date: |
22 Aug 2005 11:34:59 AM |
| Object: |
Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
On June 6, 2004, the President of France, Jacques Chirac, made his
remarks at Normandy commemorating D-Day. Chirac appropriately gave his
sincere thanks to all that America sacrificed to liberate France in
1944. President Bush followed with his own remarks. The contrast
between the contents of these two speeches tells us much about the
difference between secular France and a United States in which many
Americans still view themselves as religious.
Not once in his speech--as far as I can see--does the French President
mention God. He never invokes the blessings of God on the free world,
nor does he invoke God's mercy on the departed. Instead, Chirac, true
to the heritage of secularism borne of the French Revolution, invokes
"humanist" values:
For over 200 years now, the same humanist values have shaped the
destinies of France and America. Our two nations have never ceased to
share common love of liberty and law, of justice and democracy. These
values are rooted in the very depths of our cultures and civilization.
They are the spirit of our peoples. They are the heart and soul of our
nations. From the plains of Yorktown to the beaches of Normandy, in the
suffering of those global conflicts that have rent the past century,
our two countries, our two peoples have stood shoulder to shoulder in
the brotherhood of blood spilled, in defense of a certain ideal of
mankind, of a certain vision of the world -- the vision that lies at
the heart of the United Nations Charter.
Source: Available at this link (emphasis added).
http://news.findlaw.com/prnewswire/20040606/06jun2004064346.html
In contrast, President Bush invoked the mercy of God on those who died
on D-Day and ended his speech with a poignant reference to the many
Bibles that were strewn among the dead American bodies that littered
the French coast on D-Day:
When the invasion was finally over and the guns were silent, this
coast, we are told, was lined for miles with the belongings of the
thousands who fell. There were life belts and canteens and socks and
K-rations and helmets and diaries and snapshots. And there were Bibles,
many Bibles, mixed with the wreckage of war. Our boys had carried in
their pockets the book that brought into the world this message:
Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his
friends.
America honors all the liberators who fought here in the noblest of
causes, and America would do it again for our friends. May God bless
you. (Applause.)
Source: Available at this link.
http://news.findlaw.com/prnewswire/20040606/06jun2004064346.html
Chirac's blatant secularism echoes the French refusal to incorporate
any references to God in the European Union's new constitution, in
spite of insistent pleas from the Pope and some other European nations.
The French Revolution ushered in an era of instability, dictatorship,
war, humiliation, and surrender for France beginning in 1789 and ending
with the ignominy of Vichy France. In fact, the French Revolution is
famous for its Reign of Terror. In today's world in which terrorists
are the prime external enemies of the free world, France gave us the
first terrorists in the Reign of Terror.
Something is radically wrong in a France where at a solemn occasion
commemorating the dead the President of the Republic makes no reference
to God. A growing Middle Eastern population and declining French
fertility indicate that French society will likely face major
demographic changes in the near future. In my view, such declining
fertility is a function of secularism. Ironically, French secularism
may very well lead to increased religious fundamentalism from its
Muslim residents. The country that spawned the Reign of Terror may face
increased anti-secular Muslim terrorist activity on its own soil. The
Old Europe is sick, and the source of its sickness is plain for all to
see: a visceral hostility to religion.
http://catholicanalysis.blogspot.com/2004/06/study-in-contrasts-on-d-day-secular.html
.
|
|
| User: "Montesquiou" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 11:48:23 AM |
|
|
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1124728499.810017.250190@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
In short the Bush message is that those who had no bible, the Jews for
example, don't desserved to be honored.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Clarence Wilson" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
23 Aug 2005 01:11:25 PM |
|
|
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1124728499.810017.250190@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
On June 6, 2004, the President of France, Jacques Chirac, made his
remarks at Normandy commemorating D-Day. Chirac appropriately gave his
sincere thanks to all that America sacrificed to liberate France in
1944. President Bush followed with his own remarks. The contrast
between the contents of these two speeches tells us much about the
difference between secular France and a United States in which many
Americans still view themselves as religious.
Of course, the 300,000 Atheistic Brits, and the 13,000,000 Communists
Russians had nothing to do with it at all. No, all down to 250,000
'Holyholy' Americans.
You may like to insult your own country mate, but your faciest
IslamoChristian MumboJumbo just goes straight over our heads.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Parsifal" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 11:53:55 AM |
|
|
*The Old Europe is sick, and the source of its sickness is plain for
all to
*see: a visceral hostility to religion.
And this from our American taliban... The irony is of course that his
country has death penalty, has used twice the nuclear weapon against
civilian, has supported several dictatorships, and has recently
declared a war based on lies which will cause a country to fall into a
civil war and eventually become another religious state... Oh, and I
forgot that the USA are also the biggest producer of porn of the
planet, one of the major actors in the dramatic climatic changes, that
the USA have a very peculiar view of international treaties ("I do what
I want but I keep the right to invade, bomb, destroy anyone who doesn't
respect them")... etc. etc. etc...
If there is one sick country on the planet, it is certainly the USA
with its hypocritical use of religion to justify its immoral actions.
God knows I don't support Chirac, but in this regard, I have to say
that he absolutely right: religion is a private matter and should be
kept private.
As for you, my little taliban, go ***** yourself.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robi" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 03:41:48 PM |
|
|
Parsifal wrote:
*The Old Europe is sick, and the source of its sickness is plain for
all to
*see: a visceral hostility to religion.
And this from our American taliban... The irony is of course that his
country has death penalty, has used twice the nuclear weapon against
civilian, has supported several dictatorships, and has recently
declared a war based on lies which will cause a country to fall into a
civil war and eventually become another religious state... Oh, and I
forgot that the USA are also the biggest producer of porn of the
planet, one of the major actors in the dramatic climatic changes, that
the USA have a very peculiar view of international treaties ("I do what
I want but I keep the right to invade, bomb, destroy anyone who doesn't
respect them")... etc. etc. etc...
If there is one sick country on the planet, it is certainly the USA
with its hypocritical use of religion to justify its immoral actions.
God knows I don't support Chirac, but in this regard, I have to say
that he absolutely right: religion is a private matter and should be
kept private.
As for you, my little taliban, go ***** yourself.
Top Post! <round of applause>
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 04:15:05 PM |
|
|
George W. Bush:
When the invasion was finally over and the guns were silent, this
coast, we are told, was lined for miles with the belongings of the
thousands who fell. There were life belts and canteens and socks and
K-rations and helmets and diaries and snapshots. And there were Bibles,
many Bibles, mixed with the wreckage of war.
Doesn't _that_ just sum it all up.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
23 Aug 2005 02:00:16 AM |
|
|
In article <1124728499.810017.250190@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible?
Is this a trick question? Shall I trust ideas based ion human reason or
a fairy tale?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 01:49:46 PM |
|
|
In episode <1124728499.810017.250190@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, words
of truth burst into the room and exclaimed:
Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible?
I tried the babble, it failed. Then again, trusting a book of mythology
was a bad idea...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 08:43:34 PM |
|
|
On 22 Aug 2005 09:34:59 -0700, "words of truth"
<wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> drained his beer, leaned back in the
alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
On June 6, 2004, the President of France, Jacques Chirac, made his
remarks at Normandy commemorating D-Day. Chirac appropriately gave his
sincere thanks to all that America sacrificed to liberate France in
1944. President Bush followed with his own remarks. The contrast
between the contents of these two speeches tells us much about the
difference between secular France and a United States in which many
Americans still view themselves as religious.
Not once in his speech--as far as I can see--does the French President
mention God. He never invokes the blessings of God on the free world,
nor does he invoke God's mercy on the departed. Instead, Chirac, true
to the heritage of secularism borne of the French Revolution, invokes
"humanist" values:
That's because he was there to honor those brave men who stormed the
beaches, jumped from planes, and supported the massive effort to crack
the Atlantic Wall. He spoke of the troops, and praised them.
For over 200 years now, the same humanist values have shaped the
destinies of France and America. Our two nations have never ceased to
share common love of liberty and law, of justice and democracy. These
values are rooted in the very depths of our cultures and civilization.
They are the spirit of our peoples. They are the heart and soul of our
nations. From the plains of Yorktown to the beaches of Normandy, in the
suffering of those global conflicts that have rent the past century,
our two countries, our two peoples have stood shoulder to shoulder in
the brotherhood of blood spilled, in defense of a certain ideal of
mankind, of a certain vision of the world -- the vision that lies at
the heart of the United Nations Charter.
Yes, if you actually read the Constitution you will see that it is a
monument to humanism. "We The People" are the sources of power, the
defender of rights, and the voice of the nation.
Source: Available at this link (emphasis added).
http://news.findlaw.com/prnewswire/20040606/06jun2004064346.html
In contrast, President Bush invoked the mercy of God on those who died
on D-Day and ended his speech with a poignant reference to the many
Bibles that were strewn among the dead American bodies that littered
the French coast on D-Day:
Bibles which got waterlogged and helped drown many soldiers. Useless
thing to carry into battle, if you ask me.
When the invasion was finally over and the guns were silent, this
coast, we are told, was lined for miles with the belongings of the
thousands who fell. There were life belts and canteens and socks and
K-rations and helmets and diaries and snapshots. And there were Bibles,
many Bibles, mixed with the wreckage of war. Our boys had carried in
their pockets the book that brought into the world this message:
Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his
friends.
And God had let them die. Did you know that the German defenders had
their own bibles with them? So, did Bush praise all those good
Lutheran Wehrmacht troops as well for their faith?
America honors all the liberators who fought here in the noblest of
causes, and America would do it again for our friends. May God bless
you. (Applause.)
I wonder if Bush can name all the countries that participated in
D-Day, and what beaches they went to.
Chirac's blatant secularism echoes the French refusal to incorporate
any references to God in the European Union's new constitution, in
spite of insistent pleas from the Pope and some other European nations.
The Pope seems to believe that he has some sort of governmental
authority outside Vatican City. He's wrong.
Tell me, where is God refered to in our Constitution? Show me the
exact references.
The French Revolution ushered in an era of instability, dictatorship,
war, humiliation, and surrender for France beginning in 1789 and ending
with the ignominy of Vichy France. In fact, the French Revolution is
famous for its Reign of Terror. In today's world in which terrorists
are the prime external enemies of the free world, France gave us the
first terrorists in the Reign of Terror.
You ignore Napoleon, the Franco-German War of 1879, and France's
globe-spanning network of colonies. You also forget that they haven't
actually lost a war since Napoleon. Hitler won in the short term, but
the French kept fighting, either as Free French Forces or in the
Resistance.
Something is radically wrong in a France where at a solemn occasion
commemorating the dead the President of the Republic makes no reference
to God. A growing Middle Eastern population and declining French
fertility indicate that French society will likely face major
demographic changes in the near future. In my view, such declining
fertility is a function of secularism. Ironically, French secularism
may very well lead to increased religious fundamentalism from its
Muslim residents. The country that spawned the Reign of Terror may face
increased anti-secular Muslim terrorist activity on its own soil. The
Old Europe is sick, and the source of its sickness is plain for all to
see: a visceral hostility to religion.
France is currently the only nation in Europe able to feed itself
without the need for imports. The have a decent economy, and
fertility is declining across Europe as the influence of outdated
churches falls away and people stop breeding like rabbits.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
28 Aug 2005 12:28:10 PM |
|
|
On 22 Aug 2005 09:34:59 -0700, "words of truth"
<wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
Something is radically wrong in a France where at a solemn occasion
commemorating the dead the President of the Republic makes no reference
to God.
Something is even more radically wrong when the President of the US
says God told him to go to war with Iraq.
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 12:39:03 PM |
|
|
On 22 Aug 2005 09:34:59 -0700, "words of truth"
<wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
Interesting title.
If you are posting on the internet, you trust humanism more than the
bible. A study in hypocracy.
.
|
|
|
| User: "WCB" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 01:38:07 PM |
|
|
Kate wrote:
On 22 Aug 2005 09:34:59 -0700, "words of truth"
<wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
Interesting title.
If you are posting on the internet, you trust humanism more than the
bible. A study in hypocracy.
The bible is merely a record of god's atrocities.
I am quite happy that nasty god is mythical.
--
Xenu is around and about,
mention Hubbard, Xenu pops out!
No way for the clams to stamp Xenu out,
Xenu is around and about!
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 12:52:58 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:34:59 -0700, words of truth wrote:
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
Hmmmm....trust the superstitious, mythological beliefs of a group of
Bronze Age goat herders, or the rational, critically examined beliefs of
people who have refined their ethos over hundreds of years, incorporating
new information when available? Boy, that's a tough one.... Hmmm.....
How about if I put my fingers in my ears, shut my eyes, and kill everyone
that doesn't look/talk/act/think like me?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Greywolf" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 06:33:31 PM |
|
|
"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.08.22.17.52.54.996595@stopspam.net...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:34:59 -0700, words of truth wrote:
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
Hmmmm....trust the superstitious, mythological beliefs of a group of
Bronze Age goat herders, or the rational, critically examined beliefs of
people who have refined their ethos over hundreds of years, incorporating
new information when available? Boy, that's a tough one.... Hmmm.....
<respectful snip>
Maybe you ought to offer up a slaughtered and roasted goat, a lamb, and a
bullock or two up to the wind. That should help make that 'tough' decision
of
yours a little easier.
Greywolf
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 02:22:09 PM |
|
|
MarkA wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:34:59 -0700, words of truth wrote:
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
Hmmmm....trust the superstitious, mythological beliefs of a group of
Bronze Age goat herders, or the rational, critically examined beliefs of
people who have refined their ethos over hundreds of years, incorporating
new information when available? Boy, that's a tough one.... Hmmm.....
How about if I put my fingers in my ears, shut my eyes, and kill everyone
that doesn't look/talk/act/think like me?
That would be trusting the Bible.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
- Robert Anton Wilson
.
|
|
|
| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 04:54:05 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:22:09 -0700, Gregory Gadow wrote:
MarkA wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:34:59 -0700, words of truth wrote:
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
Hmmmm....trust the superstitious, mythological beliefs of a group of
Bronze Age goat herders, or the rational, critically examined beliefs of
people who have refined their ethos over hundreds of years,
incorporating new information when available? Boy, that's a tough
one.... Hmmm.....
How about if I put my fingers in my ears, shut my eyes, and kill
everyone that doesn't look/talk/act/think like me?
That would be trusting the Bible.
Yeah! OK, I'll go with that one. The one that doesn't require much
thought, and lets you give responsibility for your actions to someone else.
Whew! I feel better already!
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert
Anton Wilson
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
23 Aug 2005 02:26:49 AM |
|
|
words of truth wrote:
A Study in Contrasts on D-Day: Secular Humanism vs. Bibles
<snipped and summarised>
Wah wah wah! The mean nasty man didnt mention my bestest friend! Wah
wah wah!
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Shall You Trust Secular Humanism Or Bible? |
22 Aug 2005 12:18:38 PM |
|
|
words of truth wrote:
[--whatever--]
God did not liberate France, bozo. The Allies did.
.
|
|
|
|

|
Related Articles |
|
|