| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
04 Oct 2005 11:25:17 AM |
| Object: |
Should Christians be Politically Engaged? |
THEOCRACY IN ACTION
Porpaganda, misinformation. misrepresenting, lies, the tools of the
theocrats
http://www.therealitycheck.org/GuestColumnist/jadams072805.htm
[excerpt]
Should Christians be Politically Engaged?
by Jeff Adams
One thing you hear liberals repeatedly say is that religion has no place
in politics. Granted, this argument is based on the ‘separation of church
and state’ concept, but that concept itself is a myth. There is no
‘separation’ clause in the U.S. Constitution. Anti-Christian types point
to the First Amendment to justify their ‘separation’ claims, but this is
based on their ignorance of the Bill of Rights. The first ten Amendments
to the Constitution are restrictions on the federal government, not the
states or the rights of the people. The First Amendment guarantees
‘freedom of religion,’ which means government cannot regulate or interfere
with the practice of one’s religion (and at the time of the writing of the
First Amendment, ‘religion,’ was primarily referring to one’s particular
brand of Christianity, not simply any religion, Christian, Jewish or
otherwise).
The ‘wall of separation’ Thomas Jefferson was referring to in his letter
to the Danbury Baptists, the source of the ‘separation’ ideology, was
actually a one-way filter. The federal government couldn’t interfere in
religious practices, but religious people could interfere in what the
government did (note that the Constitution does not prohibit state
governments from being involved in religion, and at one time several states
had ‘official’ religions; actually particular denominations of
Christianity). Do you doubt Christianity has a role to play in our form of
government? Then why has Congress always opened up with prayer? Why has
Congress always provided for a chaplain for Congress and chaplains for the
military? (And go check for yourself and see that these chaplains have
been overwhelmingly Christian chaplains) Why does the Declaration of
Independence declare our rights come not from government but from God
Himself (“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights)?
Still question the Christian ties to our form of government and religion’s
role in it? President John Quincy Adams, the son of one of our founding
fathers, John Adams, stated in 1821, “The highest glory of the American
Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles
of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” That’s pretty
hard to refute with any sane argument for the idea that the founders meant
for us to have a purely secular government. But what about the fact that
in 1892, in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, the U.S. Supreme
Court declared “our civilization and our institutions are emphatically
Christian . . . this is a Christian nation.” There are many more examples,
but these two suffice as a representative sampling for proof Christianity
should have an active influence on our government.
[end of excerpt]
Anyone recognie the propaganda of David Barton here? (grin)
The JQ Adams quote is bogus and was circulated by Barton in the past
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Should Christians be Politically Engaged? |
09 Oct 2005 09:44:37 AM |
|
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"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
:|buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
:|> THEOCRACY IN ACTION
:|> Porpaganda, misinformation. misrepresenting, lies, the tools of the
:|> theocrats
:|>
:|> http://www.therealitycheck.org/GuestColumnist/jadams072805.htm
:|> [excerpt]
:|>
:|> Should Christians be Politically Engaged?
:|>
:|> by Jeff Adams
:|>
:|> One thing you hear liberals repeatedly say is that religion has no place
:|> in politics.
:|
:|"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
:|religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that
:|man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these
:|great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of
:|men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man,
:|ought to respect and to cherish them." --Washington's Farewell Address
:|1796.
:|
Do you like quoting non-Christians, non- religious founders?
You do know that Washington was not especially religious and not even close
to being a orthodix Christian?
Even heard of politician speak?
Also there is this:
Jim,
I'm hoping to file to stop inaugural chaplains in the next day or two. Can
you give me a good citation for:
"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and
irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause."
George Washington, Letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792
Thanks! (As always.)
- Mike
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2www-washington?specfile=/texts/english/washington/fitzpatrick/search/gw.o2w&act=surround&offset=40021902&tag=Writings+of+Washington,+Vol.+32:++To+SIR+EDWARD+NEWENHAM+&query=+Edward+Newenham&id=gw320076
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I2F662A0A
Search John C. Fitzpatrick's Writings of George Washington
Writings of Washington, Vol. 32: To SIR EDWARD NEWENHAM
The writings of George Washington from the original manuscript sources
Washington, George, 1732-1799
Fitzpatrick, John Clement, 1876-1940
To SIR' EDWARD NEWENHAM
Philadelphia, June 22, 1792.
Dr. Sir: I have now before me your letters of the 9 of January and 12
of February to which it will not be in my power to reply so fully as my
inclination would lead me to do if I had no avocation but those of a
personal nature.
I regret exceedingly that the disputes between the protestants and
Roman Catholics should be carried to the serious alarming height mentioned
in your letters. Religious controversies are always productive of more
acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other
cause; and I was not without hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy
of the present age would have put an effectual stop to contentions of this
kind.
The present appears to be an eventful moment in Europe. The
declaration of War by France against the King of Hungary will probably soon
discover what part the several Nations in Europe will take; but when or
where these agitations which now shake that quarter of the globe will
terminate is beyond the Ken of human wisdom. Notwithstanding our local
situation and political circumstances guard us against an interference in
the contests between the European powers; yet we cannot be indifferent as
to the issue of a business in which the happiness of so many millions of
our fellow citizens is involved. We have had nothing from France since the
declaration of War, but are waiting with no small degree of anxiety for
furtheir intelligence which may enable us to form some conjecture on this
momentous business.
I am happy in being able to inform you that the affairs of this
Country are still going on in a prosperous train. The harvest through the
several States, so far as I have been able to
-74-
extend my enquiries, promises to be abundant for the quantity sown; and it
is said by those who are well acquainted with the subject, that there has
never been a year in which so much land has been cultivated in grain,
particularly wheat, as in the present. I paid a visit to Mount Vernon
immediately on the rising of Congress, and was much pleased to find the
appearance of crops of my own farms much more flattering than I had known
them for many years past, and the Country generally exhibited the face of
plenty. An insect called the Hessian Fly, has made it's appearance and done
some mischief in parts of this State, Delaware and Maryland; but the
destruction occasioned by this enemy will bear but a very trifling
proportion to the whole crop of the Country, and I am informed that it's
ravages where it has been found this year, are far less than those
committed by the same insect some years ago. An investigation of the
natural history and progress of this insect is now taking place in order to
see if some effectual measures cannot be fallen upon to prevent it's
devastations. As it is a subject deeply interesting to every individual in
the community I flatter myself that such enquiries and communications will
be made respecting it as will lead to it's extirpation.
Mrs. Washington unites with me in sincere wishes for the health and
happiness of Lady Newenham and yourself. I am etc. 45
Note: From the "Letter Book" copy in the Washington Papers .
****************************************************************************************
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2www-washington?specfile=/texts/english/washington/fitzpatrick/search/gw.o2w&act=surround&offset=40276555&tag=Writings+of+Washington,+Vol.+32:++To+SIR+EDWARD+NEWENHAM+&query=+Edward+Newenham&id=gw320162
http://makeashorterlink.com/?P2E631A0A
Search John C. Fitzpatrick's Writings of George Washington
Writings of Washington, Vol. 32: To SIR EDWARD NEWENHAM
The writings of George Washington from the original manuscript sources
Washington, George, 1732-1799
Fitzpatrick, John Clement, 1876-1940
To SIR'> EDWARD NEWENHAM
Philadelphia, October 20, 1792.
Dear Sir: Where your Letter of the 21st of December last has been
travelling since it left you, I cannot tell; but it did not get to my hands
till within a few weeks past; when I likewise received your's of the 15th.
of July, introducing Mr. Anderson. I was sorry to see the gloomy picture
which you drew of the affairs of your Country in your letter of December;
but I hope events have not turned out so badly as you then apprehended. Of
all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are
caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most
inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in
hopes, that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the
present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every
denomination so far, that we should never again see their religious
disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of Society.
The Affairs of this Country still wear a prosperous aspect. Our
Agriculture, Commerce and navigation are in a flourishing state. In some
parts of the Country the crops of Indian corn (maize) have been injured by
the drought in summer, and early frosts in autumn. We have, however, a
happiness, which is scarcely in any other Country; for such is the extent
of the
-191-
U. S. and so great a variety of climate and soil do they embrace, that we
never need apprehend a universal failure of our crops, and a consequent
famine.
I have spent part of the summer at Mount Vernon, and have but just
returned to the seat of Government, where I am so much engaged in attending
to business, which has accumulated during my absence, and in preparing such
business as will be necessary to lay before the Legislature at their
meeting early in next month, that I have but little time to attend to any
affairs of a private or personal nature; I am therefore persuaded, that you
will to these impute causes the shortness of this letter. Mrs. Washington
unites with me in respects and best wishes for Lady Newenham and yourself.
I am &c. 4
Note: From the "Letter Book" copy in the Washington Papers .
*********************************************************************************************
Jefferson's 1777 Draft of a Bill for Religious Freedom
http://www.religioustolerance.org/virg_bil.htm
The following text is a draft written by Thomas Jefferson in 1777. It
promoted religious freedom for the state of Virginia. Thomas Jefferson and
James Madison promoted the bill for years before it was finally passed by
the Virginia legislature. At the time, the Anglican Church was officially
recognized as the state religion. The law disestablished that denomination.
An alternate proposal that many other denominations be recognized was
rejected.
This bill is often called "the precursor to the Religion Clauses of the
First Amendment" of the U.S. Constitution. 1 It is this Amendment that
guarantees religious freedom for the individual, while erecting a wall of
separation between church and government.
***********************************************************************************
"AN ACT FOR ESTABLISHING RELIGIOUS FREEDOM", VIRGINIA, 1786
http://www.religioustolerance.org/virg_rel.htm
In 1777, he drafted An Act for Establishing Religious Freedom. 1 In 1779,
he became Governor and introduced the act into the legislature. However,
********************************************************************************************
**************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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| User: "fred" |
|
| Title: Re: Should Christians be Politically Engaged? |
05 Oct 2005 02:41:04 AM |
|
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wrote:
THEOCRACY IN ACTION
Porpaganda, misinformation. misrepresenting, lies, the tools of the
theocrats
http://www.therealitycheck.org/GuestColumnist/jadams072805.htm
[excerpt]
Should Christians be Politically Engaged?
by Jeff Adams
One thing you hear liberals repeatedly say is that religion has no place
in politics.
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that
man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these
great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of
men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man,
ought to respect and to cherish them." --Washington's Farewell Address
1796.
<snipped for brevity>
.
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
|
| Title: Re: Should Christians be Politically Engaged? |
05 Oct 2005 05:54:14 PM |
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Only to politicians of the opposite gender.
{:-|
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=
Those first to step up and say,
"Now is not the time for placing blame"
...
...are quite often to blame....
_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=
.
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