| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"johac" |
| Date: |
18 Aug 2007 06:27:12 PM |
| Object: |
Should God go to the ballgame? |
Do they hand out hymnals with the scorecards on "faith day"?
---
From the Los Angeles Times
Should God go to the ballgame?
Events such as 'faith day' at Dodger Stadium signal the Christianization
of pro sports.
By Tom Krattenmaker
August 18, 2007
On Sunday, Christian baseball fans will stream into Dodger Stadium for
what is becoming more common fare at professional ballparks across the
country -- "faith day."
Following the Dodgers vs. Rockies game, fans with special tickets will
gather in a corner of the parking lot for a concert by the Christian
rock band Hawk Nelson, an appearance by characters from the "Veggie
Tales" Christian television program and testimonials by several devout
Dodgers. The purpose, according to event organizer Brent High, is to
promote the Gospel of Jesus.
High and his Christian events-promotion company, Third Coast Sports,
have been organizing faith days and faith nights around minor league
baseball for years. They reached the major leagues last season with
three events at Turner Field, home of the Atlanta Braves, and will be in
10 major league cities this season. The event at Dodger Stadium will be
the first in L.A.
These events, which blend religion and commerce, are the product of a
partnership between High's company and host teams. Third Coast
undertakes energetic outreach to evangelical churches, getting
baseball-loving church members (and, more important, their unconverted
invitees) to turn out for the game and a special religious program.
Believers nourish their faith and perhaps extend it to others, and teams
welcome the typical surge in ticket sales and action at the merchandise
and food stands. The result, according to High, "is happy teams, happy
churches."
But not everyone is so happy.
Critics of the Christianizing of pro sports -- including interfaith
groups, Jewish leaders and secular progressives -- have voiced
reservations about the seemingly ever-closer relationship between
evangelical sports ministries and major professional sports teams.
Frequent on-field religious gestures by players already rankle many --
does it really honor God to knock the snot of your opponent on the
football field and then point to the sky? And shout-outs to God during
live post-game interviews offend those fans who would prefer to enjoy
their sports without a dose of in-your-face religion.
Remember the owner and the coach of the Indianapolis Colts who both
praised God before a worldwide television audience while collecting the
Super Bowl trophy last winter? It's no accident that scenes like that
have become a common feature of the pro sports landscape. The Fellowship
of Christian Athletes and similar sports ministries have been operating
behind the scenes for decades to minister to sports figures and
encourage them to use their high-profile platform to spread the
Christian message.
Ballpark faith events -- one of the newest wrinkles in evangelism
through sports, and the one that invites the broadest participation --
raise legitimate concerns. Sports franchises are quasi-public resources
(through taxes and other civic backing) that belong to the religiously
diverse communities that support them. Is it appropriate for teams to
help further the agenda of one religious group with an often-divisive
message and considerable political baggage?
And those politics lie just below the surface of evangelical activity in
sports. Until last year, Third Coast frequently put on faith events in
partnership with James Dobson's Focus on the Family, a leading
Christian-right organization associated with the Republican Party and a
staunchly anti-gay message. The former partnership between Third Coast
and Focus on the Family is emblematic of a larger pattern of strong ties
between Christian activity in pro sports and conservative political
interests.
To his credit, High shies away from what he calls "ambush evangelism," a
style of Christian outreach that can insult followers of other faiths or
those of no faith. Third Coast's events in major league baseball
typically restrict the evangelism to before or after the game and to a
discreet area of the stadium.
And while he acknowledges that faith night would be more appropriately
dubbed "evangelical Christianity night," High says he's open to the
events becoming more ecumenical. Evangelicals dominate religious
activity in sports because they're the ones with the inclination, energy
and entrepreneurial chutzpah to insert themselves into the game.
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary. But must religious activity in major league sports skew so
strongly in a conservative direction? If they are here to stay, here's
hoping faith days at Dodger Stadium and other ballparks eventually live
up to their name and embrace more than one form of religion.
---
http://tinyurl.com/yu54kq
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
18 Aug 2007 08:42:39 PM |
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
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| User: "J Young" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
18 Aug 2007 10:22:11 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
....and if you don't like what's going on at the ballpark, you can always sit
your ***** at home and watch it on t.v.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 02:51:49 PM |
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J Young wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
...and if you don't like what's going on at the ballpark, you can
always sit your ***** at home and watch it on t.v.
Yeah! Benny Hinn!
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| User: "Hatter" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 06:40:55 PM |
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On Aug 18, 11:22 pm, "J Young" <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
...and if you don't like what's going on at the ballpark, you can always sit
your ***** at home and watch it on t.v.
As much as I dislike him...that should exactly be true...if sports
wasn't so govermentally subsiduzed
Hatter
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 02:15:18 PM |
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:22:11 -0400, "J Young" <younginsights@aol.com>
wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
...and if you don't like what's going on at the ballpark, you can always sit
your ***** at home and watch it on t.v.
Tell us that when they have Moslem religious festivals at ball games.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 02:09:24 AM |
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In article <ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
Exactly. People don't play baseball in churches so why bring the church
to the ballpark?
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 02:16:26 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:09:24 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
Exactly. People don't play baseball in churches so why bring the church
to the ballpark?
But you do have an excellent idea - indoor baseball after church
services. Baseball is more popular than church in this country. (Ever
hear anyone complaining about having to get out of the house too early
for a baseball game?)
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 06:37:08 PM |
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In article <gm5hc392dm1haofqqb3fe34svvb2a3vn58@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:09:24 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
Exactly. People don't play baseball in churches so why bring the church
to the ballpark?
But you do have an excellent idea - indoor baseball after church
services. Baseball is more popular than church in this country. (Ever
hear anyone complaining about having to get out of the house too early
for a baseball game?)
One of the standing jokes in California is how empty the church parking
lots are on Sunday morning during football season. Since many of the
East Coast games begin at 1 PM local time, the broadcast begins at 10 AM
out here, just when the local services are in full swing.
Perhaps the solution is that the churches could install large screen
TVs, put the game on, and the preacher could give his sermon during half
time.
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 07:25:22 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:37:08 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Perhaps the solution is that the churches could install large screen
TVs, put the game on, and the preacher could give his sermon during half
time.
Or just skip the sermon and let them eat ca^H^H^H I mean, let them
watch the game.
The lessons football teaches are more true-to-life than the ones the
preachers do.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 11:34:23 PM |
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In article <kpnhc3hvpkosvbrqv34a913liujkbgaogm@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:37:08 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Perhaps the solution is that the churches could install large screen
TVs, put the game on, and the preacher could give his sermon during half
time.
Or just skip the sermon and let them eat ca^H^H^H I mean, let them
watch the game.
The lessons football teaches are more true-to-life than the ones the
preachers do.
God is on the side of the team with the best defensive line?
<joke>
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "William Wingstedt" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 07:15:01 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:09:24 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
Exactly. People don't play baseball in churches so why bring the church
to the ballpark?
Exactly. Baseball and stained glass windows don't mix.
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
19 Aug 2007 11:32:06 PM |
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In article <46c8dcda.630819240@Newsgroups.Comcast.net>,
(William Wingstedt) wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:09:24 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
Exactly. People don't play baseball in churches so why bring the church
to the ballpark?
Exactly. Baseball and stained glass windows don't mix.
And if you knock over the sacramental wine, you're in big trouble.
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
20 Aug 2007 08:43:13 PM |
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"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-4F216A.21320619082007@news.giganews.com...
In article <46c8dcda.630819240@Newsgroups.Comcast.net>,
William_Wingstedt@comcast.net (William Wingstedt) wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:09:24 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
Exactly. People don't play baseball in churches so why bring the church
to the ballpark?
Exactly. Baseball and stained glass windows don't mix.
And if you knock over the sacramental wine, you're in big trouble.
Yep. Jizzus will confiscate your balls.
Smiler,
The godless one
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
20 Aug 2007 11:48:10 PM |
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In article <Rqryi.35809$1G1.31234@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-4F216A.21320619082007@news.giganews.com...
In article <46c8dcda.630819240@Newsgroups.Comcast.net>,
William_Wingstedt@comcast.net (William Wingstedt) wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:09:24 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
Exactly. People don't play baseball in churches so why bring the church
to the ballpark?
Exactly. Baseball and stained glass windows don't mix.
And if you knock over the sacramental wine, you're in big trouble.
Yep. Jizzus will confiscate your balls.
I'd worry more about the priest.
Smiler,
The godless one
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
21 Aug 2007 06:44:37 PM |
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"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-9CF74A.21481020082007@news.giganews.com...
In article <Rqryi.35809$1G1.31234@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-4F216A.21320619082007@news.giganews.com...
In article <46c8dcda.630819240@Newsgroups.Comcast.net>,
William_Wingstedt@comcast.net (William Wingstedt) wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:09:24 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical
nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
Exactly. People don't play baseball in churches so why bring the
church
to the ballpark?
Exactly. Baseball and stained glass windows don't mix.
And if you knock over the sacramental wine, you're in big trouble.
Yep. Jizzus will confiscate your balls.
I'd worry more about the priest.
Nah. He'd just want to play with them.
Smiler,
The godless one
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Should God go to the ballgame? |
21 Aug 2007 11:40:40 PM |
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In article <FNKyi.24666$Db6.11354@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-9CF74A.21481020082007@news.giganews.com...
In article <Rqryi.35809$1G1.31234@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>,
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-4F216A.21320619082007@news.giganews.com...
In article <46c8dcda.630819240@Newsgroups.Comcast.net>,
William_Wingstedt@comcast.net (William Wingstedt) wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:09:24 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <ev7fc3dpb8v6emj0knkifntgch32th6eu5@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:27:12 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A complete separation of church and sports is neither practical
nor
necessary.
Why not? If you want a night of praying, go to a church, not to a
ball game.
Exactly. People don't play baseball in churches so why bring the
church
to the ballpark?
Exactly. Baseball and stained glass windows don't mix.
And if you knock over the sacramental wine, you're in big trouble.
Yep. Jizzus will confiscate your balls.
I'd worry more about the priest.
Nah. He'd just want to play with them.
That's why I'm worried..
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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