| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
10 Sep 2006 08:59:33 AM |
| Object: |
Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2006/09/should_this_hin.html
Friday, 08 September 2006
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
You know when you've had a really great holiday and you're back at
work and after a few days you think, my goodness, have I ever really
been away? I had that feeling this week, when story after story was
piling up to write, unopened letters were still taking up all the spare
space on my desk and emails were blinking persistently at me, demanding
to be read. And then the Church Times arrived in its usual brown
envelope on my desk, a day before everyone else gets it. Sitting down
with a cup of tea and unaccustomed pleasure to read it after a month of
CT abstinence, imagine my joy to see the lead on page three.
Beautifully written by Bill Bowder, this was the kind of story
journalists love to write and diocesan communications officers hate us
to write about. Which possibly explains why I couldn't get hold of the
Ely DCO all day. This picture shows the Rev David Hart, who has just
had his licence to officiate renewed by the Bishop of Ely, Dr Anthony
Russell, in The Hindu this week.
He is blessing the four-armed elephant god Ganesh, outside his house
in India, before going off on pilgrimage to dip it in the ocean. He
converted to Hinduism, before his licence was renewed but without
telling poor Dr Russell, and moved to India from Loughborough where he
was senior Anglican chaplain at the university.
Mr Hart, an Oxford graduate, believes there will be no problem with him
officiating as an =C1nglican priest when he returns to visit England,
staying in the house he owns in Stretham, Ely. Rev Pauline Scott, Vicar
of St James in Stretham, wasn't so sure when I spoke to her yesterday.
'We prefer our priests to be Christian,' she said.
Of course Mr Hart, who is international secretary of the World Congress
of Faiths and an active member of the Sea of Faith Network (need I say
more?), believes he is still a Christian and that there is no
contradiction between being a Hindu and being a Christian. A
frightening number of the people I discussed this story with yesterday
after work felt the same. 'Surely there's no difference is there?' was
the common reaction. 'Hindus believe in Jesus don't they? It's not as
if he's trying to be a Muslim and a Christian.' Er, well... Where do I
start with that one? The amazement when I explained to one interlocuter
that Christianity and Islam share a common Abrahamic heritage of belief
in the same God was palpable.
I really recommend you look at the links above and read some of Mr
Hart's extraordinary quotes. I admire and respect Hinduism as a
religion, but just cannot see how it can possibly be compatible with
being an =C1nglican vicar.
Ganesh, with the head of an elephant and the body of a human, is
symbolic of logical solutions. His form of transport is a mouse and he
is known as the 'destroyer of obstacles'. I await with interest to see
whether the Church of England proves itself the mouse on which Mr Hart
rides and maintains his priestly authority to the 60 Hindus he leads in
worship at a temple in Kerala each day.
Posted by Ruth Gledhill on Friday, 08 September 2006 at 06:35 AM
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
10 Sep 2006 02:56:32 PM |
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On 10 Sep 2006 06:59:33 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote:
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
Why ask on alt.atheism?
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
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| User: "Charlie Dont Surf" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
10 Sep 2006 02:59:19 PM |
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"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
Why ask on alt.atheism?
I guess it assumes you have an opinion.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
10 Sep 2006 04:27:51 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 20:59:19 +0100, "Charlie Don't Surf"
<qrnq_znatyrq_cvtrba@zfa.pbz> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
Why ask on alt.atheism?
I guess it assumes you have an opinion.
Or that I give a flying *****.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
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| User: "Charlie Dont Surf" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
10 Sep 2006 04:30:47 PM |
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"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
Why ask on alt.atheism?
I guess it assumes you have an opinion.
Or that I give a flying *****.
Either way, I don't.
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| User: "are we on same page?" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
10 Sep 2006 05:47:16 PM |
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"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:6fr8g2h4ctkll75m755mouvhdc9cqfjoag@4ax.com...
On 10 Sep 2006 06:59:33 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote:
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
Why ask on alt.atheism?
--
hindu converts are a confused people, and want to know from the atheists.
should they listen to the missionaries?
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
10 Sep 2006 01:14:59 PM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2006/09/should_this_hin.html
Friday, 08 September 2006
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
Why not, the Archbishop of Canterbury
is a Druid?
Jim
If the TEC wants to change its religion,
I see no reason to change mine.
You know when you've had a really great holiday and you're back at
work and after a few days you think, my goodness, have I ever really
been away? I had that feeling this week, when story after story was
piling up to write, unopened letters were still taking up all the spare
space on my desk and emails were blinking persistently at me, demanding
to be read. And then the Church Times arrived in its usual brown
envelope on my desk, a day before everyone else gets it. Sitting down
with a cup of tea and unaccustomed pleasure to read it after a month of
CT abstinence, imagine my joy to see the lead on page three.
Beautifully written by Bill Bowder, this was the kind of story
journalists love to write and diocesan communications officers hate us
to write about. Which possibly explains why I couldn't get hold of the
Ely DCO all day. This picture shows the Rev David Hart, who has just
had his licence to officiate renewed by the Bishop of Ely, Dr Anthony
Russell, in The Hindu this week.
He is blessing the four-armed elephant god Ganesh, outside his house
in India, before going off on pilgrimage to dip it in the ocean. He
converted to Hinduism, before his licence was renewed but without
telling poor Dr Russell, and moved to India from Loughborough where he
was senior Anglican chaplain at the university.
Mr Hart, an Oxford graduate, believes there will be no problem with him
officiating as an =C1nglican priest when he returns to visit England,
staying in the house he owns in Stretham, Ely. Rev Pauline Scott, Vicar
of St James in Stretham, wasn't so sure when I spoke to her yesterday.
'We prefer our priests to be Christian,' she said.
Of course Mr Hart, who is international secretary of the World Congress
of Faiths and an active member of the Sea of Faith Network (need I say
more?), believes he is still a Christian and that there is no
contradiction between being a Hindu and being a Christian. A
frightening number of the people I discussed this story with yesterday
after work felt the same. 'Surely there's no difference is there?' was
the common reaction. 'Hindus believe in Jesus don't they? It's not as
if he's trying to be a Muslim and a Christian.' Er, well... Where do I
start with that one? The amazement when I explained to one interlocuter
that Christianity and Islam share a common Abrahamic heritage of belief
in the same God was palpable.
I really recommend you look at the links above and read some of Mr
Hart's extraordinary quotes. I admire and respect Hinduism as a
religion, but just cannot see how it can possibly be compatible with
being an =C1nglican vicar.
Ganesh, with the head of an elephant and the body of a human, is
symbolic of logical solutions. His form of transport is a mouse and he
is known as the 'destroyer of obstacles'. I await with interest to see
whether the Church of England proves itself the mouse on which Mr Hart
rides and maintains his priestly authority to the 60 Hindus he leads in
worship at a temple in Kerala each day.
=20
=20
Posted by Ruth Gledhill on Friday, 08 September 2006 at 06:35 AM
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| User: "M. Ranjit Mathews" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
10 Sep 2006 08:55:49 PM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2006/09/should_this_hin.html
Any number of questions may be asked:
Should Barbara Harris have remained Sufragan Bishop for so long without
ever being appointed a full-fledged bishop (head of a diocese)?
Should the homosexual Vicky Imogene "Gene" Robinson have been appointed
diocesan Bishop?
Should Ryder have been let go with a slap on the wrist at his
ecclesiastical trial for ordaining a practising homosexual as a priest?
Should John "Since God can no longer be conceived in theistic terms, it
becomes nonsensical to seek to understand Jesus as the incarnation of
the theistic deity; the Christology of the ages is bankrupt" Spong have
been retained as Bishop after catering to this crowd:
"...Spong provides enlightened reading for people who no longer
believe in the God of Sunday school and are looking for something else
to give their lives meaning."
- The San Francisco Chronicle
It's up to the Church of England to decide whom they want to retain as
priests. As for who is the head of that church, look here:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Definitions/Church.html
Should "Defender of Faiths" Charles have already been disqualified from
being next in line for the throne on the grounds that he is disinclined
to be "Defender of THE Faith"?
Friday, 08 September 2006
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
He is blessing the four-armed elephant god Ganesh, outside his house
in India, before going off on pilgrimage to dip it in the ocean. He
converted to Hinduism, before his licence was renewed but without
telling poor Dr Russell, and moved to India from Loughborough where he
was senior Anglican chaplain at the university.
Of course Mr Hart, who is international secretary of the World Congress
of Faiths and an active member of the Sea of Faith Network (need I say
more?), believes he is still a Christian and that there is no
contradiction between being a Hindu and being a Christian.
Has he said he believes he's a Hindu and a Christian? Supposing that he
has, how about the centurion in Matthew 8:13 whom Jesus calls a
believer? Is it not conceivable that this so-called (by Jesus) believer
was also a pagan?
8:13 NKJ Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go your way; and as you
have believed, so let it be done for you." And his servant was healed
that same hour.
.
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| User: "Robert Coates" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
11 Sep 2006 09:05:10 PM |
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M. Ranjit Mathews wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2006/09/should_this_hin.html
Any number of questions may be asked:
Should Barbara Harris have remained Sufragan Bishop for so long without
ever being appointed a full-fledged bishop (head of a diocese)?
American bishops are not "appointed". They are elected by delegates at
a diocesan convention who have been elected by their congregations.
If Ms Harris wished to become bishop ordinary all she needed to do was
submit her name to a diocese in the search process.
Should the homosexual Vicky Imogene "Gene" Robinson have been appointed
diocesan Bishop?
Same as above. I have no desire to dive into the bottomless cesspool of
the Robinson debate. Suffice to say, he was elected (not "appointed")
by duly elected delegates of the faithful people of New Hampshire in
convention assembled. His election was ratified by General Convention,
a process which in every other case has been accepted as a perfunctory
formality.
Should Ryder have been let go with a slap on the wrist at his
ecclesiastical trial for ordaining a practising homosexual as a priest?
Should John "Since God can no longer be conceived in theistic terms, it
becomes nonsensical to seek to understand Jesus as the incarnation of
the theistic deity; the Christology of the ages is bankrupt" Spong have
been retained as Bishop after catering to this crowd:
"...Spong provides enlightened reading for people who no longer
believe in the God of Sunday school and are looking for something else
to give their lives meaning."
- The San Francisco Chronicle
Spong has retired. Who the heck even remembers who Ryder was?
It's up to the Church of England to decide whom they want to retain as
priests. As for who is the head of that church, look here:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Definitions/Church.html
Should "Defender of Faiths" Charles have already been disqualified from
being next in line for the throne on the grounds that he is disinclined
to be "Defender of THE Faith"?
If you think your linked article is pertinent, please quote it. I have
other things to surf for. The Law of Succession and other elements of
the British constitution has been scrupulously complied with. Charles'
right to inherit the throne in unquestioned. With less than 3% of the
population attending regularly, the position of the CofE is quite nearly
irrelevant. Regrettable perhaps, but nevertheless true.
Friday, 08 September 2006
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
He is blessing the four-armed elephant god Ganesh, outside his house
in India, before going off on pilgrimage to dip it in the ocean. He
converted to Hinduism, before his licence was renewed but without
telling poor Dr Russell, and moved to India from Loughborough where he
was senior Anglican chaplain at the university.
Hindus see and respect thousands of manifestations of the same Divinity.
Gandhi revered Jesus. Hinduism is much older than Christianity and
appears to have a much stronger hold on the attention of its devotees.
At the very least, it deserves respect. Hindus always give pooja to
Ganesh before embarking on a new venture. Considering the success of
Indian ventures lately, maybe we should all give pooja to Ganesh.
Of course Mr Hart, who is international secretary of the World Congress
of Faiths and an active member of the Sea of Faith Network (need I say
more?), believes he is still a Christian and that there is no
contradiction between being a Hindu and being a Christian.
Yes, you do need to say more. I've never heard of the Sea of Faith
Network. Of course, I could look it up myself, but if you are trying to
make a point here, it is your responsibility to explain it. If Mr Hart
believes in God and that Jesus is the son of God he is a Christian. I
don't see how participating in a Hindu ceremonial changes that.
Has he said he believes he's a Hindu and a Christian? Supposing that he
has, how about the centurion in Matthew 8:13 whom Jesus calls a
believer? Is it not conceivable that this so-called (by Jesus) believer
was also a pagan?
It has to be considered well nigh a certainty.
8:13 NKJ Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go your way; and as you
have believed, so let it be done for you." And his servant was healed
that same hour.
Presumably, a Roman centurion was obligated to give obeisances at least
to the Emperor if not other gods. Jesus did not tell him to stop. In
fact, He told him to go his way. So who are we to tell Mr Hart
(whomever he may be) otherwise?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? |
11 Sep 2006 10:19:12 AM |
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M. Ranjit Mathews wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2006/09/should_this_hin.html
Any number of questions may be asked:
Should Barbara Harris have remained Sufragan Bishop for so long without
ever being appointed a full-fledged bishop (head of a diocese)?
Should the homosexual Vicky Imogene "Gene" Robinson have been appointed
diocesan Bishop?
Should Ryder have been let go with a slap on the wrist at his
ecclesiastical trial for ordaining a practising homosexual as a priest?
Should John "Since God can no longer be conceived in theistic terms, it
becomes nonsensical to seek to understand Jesus as the incarnation of
the theistic deity; the Christology of the ages is bankrupt" Spong have
been retained as Bishop after catering to this crowd:
"...Spong provides enlightened reading for people who no longer
believe in the God of Sunday school and are looking for something else
to give their lives meaning."
- The San Francisco Chronicle
It's up to the Church of England to decide whom they want to retain as
priests. As for who is the head of that church, look here:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Definitions/Church.html
Should "Defender of Faiths" Charles have already been disqualified from
being next in line for the throne on the grounds that he is disinclined
to be "Defender of THE Faith"?
Friday, 08 September 2006
Many of us in the TEC would like
the Global South Bishops to take
charge, what those funny English do
is always good for a laugh.
Jim
If the TEC wants to change its religion,
I see no reason to change mine.
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
He is blessing the four-armed elephant god Ganesh, outside his house
in India, before going off on pilgrimage to dip it in the ocean. He
converted to Hinduism, before his licence was renewed but without
telling poor Dr Russell, and moved to India from Loughborough where he
was senior Anglican chaplain at the university.
Of course Mr Hart, who is international secretary of the World Congress
of Faiths and an active member of the Sea of Faith Network (need I say
more?), believes he is still a Christian and that there is no
contradiction between being a Hindu and being a Christian.
Has he said he believes he's a Hindu and a Christian? Supposing that he
has, how about the centurion in Matthew 8:13 whom Jesus calls a
believer? Is it not conceivable that this so-called (by Jesus) believer
was also a pagan?
8:13 NKJ Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go your way; and as you
have believed, so let it be done for you." And his servant was healed
that same hour.
.
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| User: "Mortayee" |
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| Title: Re: Should Hindu Convert Remain A Church Of England Priest? Yes because... |
10 Sep 2006 09:30:18 AM |
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all this religious stuff is a bit of fun, and total loser with an IQ of
a protozoan take it seriously and end up in Iraq like Sunni-Shia
genocidal feud, or past Muzzie-Xtian, Muzzi-everyone else type feuds.
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2006/09/should_this_hin.html
Friday, 08 September 2006
Should this Hindu convert remain a CofE priest?
You know when you've had a really great holiday and you're back at
work and after a few days you think, my goodness, have I ever really
been away? I had that feeling this week, when story after story was
piling up to write, unopened letters were still taking up all the spare
space on my desk and emails were blinking persistently at me, demanding
to be read. And then the Church Times arrived in its usual brown
envelope on my desk, a day before everyone else gets it. Sitting down
with a cup of tea and unaccustomed pleasure to read it after a month of
CT abstinence, imagine my joy to see the lead on page three.
Beautifully written by Bill Bowder, this was the kind of story
journalists love to write and diocesan communications officers hate us
to write about. Which possibly explains why I couldn't get hold of the
Ely DCO all day. This picture shows the Rev David Hart, who has just
had his licence to officiate renewed by the Bishop of Ely, Dr Anthony
Russell, in The Hindu this week.
He is blessing the four-armed elephant god Ganesh, outside his house
in India, before going off on pilgrimage to dip it in the ocean. He
converted to Hinduism, before his licence was renewed but without
telling poor Dr Russell, and moved to India from Loughborough where he
was senior Anglican chaplain at the university.
Mr Hart, an Oxford graduate, believes there will be no problem with him
officiating as an =C1nglican priest when he returns to visit England,
staying in the house he owns in Stretham, Ely. Rev Pauline Scott, Vicar
of St James in Stretham, wasn't so sure when I spoke to her yesterday.
'We prefer our priests to be Christian,' she said.
Of course Mr Hart, who is international secretary of the World Congress
of Faiths and an active member of the Sea of Faith Network (need I say
more?), believes he is still a Christian and that there is no
contradiction between being a Hindu and being a Christian. A
frightening number of the people I discussed this story with yesterday
after work felt the same. 'Surely there's no difference is there?' was
the common reaction. 'Hindus believe in Jesus don't they? It's not as
if he's trying to be a Muslim and a Christian.' Er, well... Where do I
start with that one? The amazement when I explained to one interlocuter
that Christianity and Islam share a common Abrahamic heritage of belief
in the same God was palpable.
I really recommend you look at the links above and read some of Mr
Hart's extraordinary quotes. I admire and respect Hinduism as a
religion, but just cannot see how it can possibly be compatible with
being an =C1nglican vicar.
Ganesh, with the head of an elephant and the body of a human, is
symbolic of logical solutions. His form of transport is a mouse and he
is known as the 'destroyer of obstacles'. I await with interest to see
whether the Church of England proves itself the mouse on which Mr Hart
rides and maintains his priestly authority to the 60 Hindus he leads in
worship at a temple in Kerala each day.
=20
=20
Posted by Ruth Gledhill on Friday, 08 September 2006 at 06:35 AM
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