| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
02 Aug 2004 03:07:13 AM |
| Object: |
Should they de-Nobel Moniz? |
Should they de-Nobel Moniz?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1274065,00.html
What happens when a Nobel prize winner is subsequently exposed as a
fraud? Nothing, apparently
John Sutherland
Monday August 2, 2004
The Guardian
In the British army, when an officer was drummed out, his epaulettes
would be ceremonially ripped from his uniform. Priests are defrocked
and enter the secular world in their underpants. Lawyers are disbarred
and doctors struck off. But no one, as far as I know, has ever been
de-Nobelled - stripped, that is, of the Nobel prize. Like the Soviet
government (as Solzhenitsyn wryly put it), Stockholm's motto is: "We
never make mistakes."
In one egregious case, the committee did err. And, if the campaign to
de-Nobel Egas Moniz succeeds, Portugal - having a lousy year, what
with Euro 2004 and its forest fires - will lose one of its two
laureates (the other, novelist Jose Saramago, seems safe enough).
John Sutherland
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=18510aff.0406140057.6f481922%40posting.google.com
Egas Moniz
http://www.google.com/search?q=Egas+Moniz&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&tab=nw&sa=N
http://news.google.com/news?q=Egas%20Moniz&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?q=Egas+Moniz&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&output=search&cat=gwd/Top
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=Egas%20Moniz&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
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| User: "Klaus Hellnick" |
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| Title: Re: Should they de-Nobel Moniz? |
02 Aug 2004 06:24:35 AM |
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"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0408020015.724c016e@posting.google.com...
Should they de-Nobel Moniz?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1274065,00.html
What happens when a Nobel prize winner is subsequently exposed as a
fraud? Nothing, apparently
John Sutherland
Monday August 2, 2004
The Guardian
In the British army, when an officer was drummed out, his epaulettes
would be ceremonially ripped from his uniform. Priests are defrocked
and enter the secular world in their underpants. Lawyers are disbarred
and doctors struck off. But no one, as far as I know, has ever been
de-Nobelled - stripped, that is, of the Nobel prize. Like the Soviet
government (as Solzhenitsyn wryly put it), Stockholm's motto is: "We
never make mistakes."
It is their right. The Nobel Prize is a PRIVATE enterprise, not a
governmental organization. The commitee could strike an award if they deemed
the prize was awarded based on a fraudulant discovery or innovation. Has
anyone actually proven that was the case? Fraud not directly involving the
prize would seem to be irrelevant.
Klaus
In one egregious case, the committee did err. And, if the campaign to
de-Nobel Egas Moniz succeeds, Portugal - having a lousy year, what
with Euro 2004 and its forest fires - will lose one of its two
laureates (the other, novelist Jose Saramago, seems safe enough).
John Sutherland
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=18510aff.0406140057.6f481922%40posting.google.com
Egas Moniz
http://www.google.com/search?q=Egas+Moniz&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&tab=nw&sa=N
http://news.google.com/news?q=Egas%20Moniz&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?q=Egas+Moniz&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&output=search&cat=gwd/Top
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=Egas%20Moniz&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
.
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| User: "Peter H Proctor" |
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| Title: Re: Should they de-Nobel Moniz? |
02 Aug 2004 10:46:25 AM |
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On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:24:35 +0000 (UTC), "Klaus Hellnick"
<khellnicknospam@houston.rr.com> wrote:
It is their right. The Nobel Prize is a PRIVATE enterprise, not a
governmental organization.
True, they can give "The Prize" to a red-assed baboon. But
it appears unethical by local Scandinavian rules on scientific
misconduct to materially distort the history of discovery.
http://www.publicationethics.org.uk/cope1999/pdf1999/1999pdf3.pdf
Ref: Nylenna M, et al ," On behalf of the National Committees on
Scientific Dishonesty in the Nordic Countries(1999) Handling of
scientific dishonesty in the Nordic countries." The Lancet 354:57–61
There have been several cases where the Nobel was awarded to the
wrong person. The most notorious one was for the discovery of
insulin, where the lab director ( who wasn't even present ) got a
piece of it, while one real discover was omitted.
Another example was the Physics prize won by Robert Feinman.
Here the results had been reported several years before by someone
else.. It was in an obscure middle European journal, so nobody
blamed Feinman for not citing it. Later, the real discoverer got
an acknowledgement of his priority, but not prize.
Similarly, some people criticise the Award to Wilkins for
his minimal contribution to the Double Helix. Same with the prize
for the discovery of Pulsars, which was by a Grad student, though
her Mentor got the Prize.
Dr P
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Should they de-Nobel Moniz? |
02 Aug 2004 09:25:49 AM |
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In article <18510aff.0408020015.724c016e@posting.google.com>,
(maff) wrote:
Should they de-Nobel Moniz?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1274065,00.html
What happens when a Nobel prize winner is subsequently exposed as a
fraud? Nothing, apparently
John Sutherland
Monday August 2, 2004
The Guardian
Yes, but that would call into question the fitness to practice of
generations of Doctors, hospital administrators and politicians. Can't
have that.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
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| User: "John M Price PhD" |
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| Title: Re: Should they de-Nobel Moniz? |
02 Aug 2004 09:22:32 PM |
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In article <proto-33F9C2.10351102082004@reader1.panix.com> from alt.atheism you wrote:
: In article <18510aff.0408020015.724c016e@posting.google.com>,
: (maff) wrote:
: > Should they de-Nobel Moniz?
: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1274065,00.html
: >
: > What happens when a Nobel prize winner is subsequently exposed as a
: > fraud? Nothing, apparently
: >
: > John Sutherland
: > Monday August 2, 2004
: > The Guardian
: Yes, but that would call into question the fitness to practice of
: generations of Doctors, hospital administrators and politicians. Can't
: have that.
Already had that. Presently, ECT is about as invasive as one gets.
However in cases of severe, intractable pain not solved by any means,
including surgery at lower levels of the CNS, the lobotomy is still
useful. Interestingly, the response it they still 'feel' the pain, but it
is simply a sensation, and some good amount of function is acutually
restored.
The problem with Moniz work is lack of control, and way too fast of a
generalization (from one chimp, Joe). Happily, he was paralyzed by a
gunshot from a patient who did not take kindly to the operation,
indicating that the calming effect he thought was present in the procedure
was but a figment of poor research.
I could go on about how he thought no loss of function was seen, but
otheres have published books on the subject of psychosurgery, and it is
not limited to the frontal lobes. Nor, for that matter, is it all bad.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22)
Learn something new today, like how to spell or how to count to
ten without using your fingers. Be careful dressing this
morning. You may be hit by a car later in the day and you
wouldn't want to be taken to the doctor's office in some of
that old underwear you own.
.
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