"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:6m7cr018v45d32ocl3ku7eued60kfteevb@4ax.com...

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:07:20 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/23/severed.arms.ap/

Just like an abortion.

Too bad your mother didn't have one.

I've been off usenet for quite some time. Yesterday I was reading some of
his posts, and at first I wondered if somebody was playing around with his
identity -- and shrugged it off at best, out of character for him. Maybe
he's suffered a stroke or something. He's not the same person I remember
posting. I'm not saying that to be mean either. I was on usenet regularly,
about two years ago... through about the Spring 2003 or so. I checked in on
occasion. Something has happened to P.D.'s mind.

Earlier, a fellow posted on alt.bible:
Re: New to NG (four replies).
PD #1 "You just did. :)"
PD #2 "BTW, Welcome. :)"
PD #3 "BTW, Jambo!"
PD #4 "You just did; and like most made a poor attempt at it. Please see
how I do
it and learn from me."

Honestly, I see no posts to where he was responding to. Dunno.

I'm not saying that to be mean either. He's went down hill since I was on
usenet, (not saying he exhibited a lot of intelligence back then) but, he's
not the same Dave I remember.

I'm not saying that to be mean either. I believe strongly in tolerance. I'm
currently in college and we've just been covering Psychological
Disorders/Illnesses in Psychology class, and there's a strong emphasis on
compassion for people who have problems. In other words, it takes an
"unstable person" to sit there and attack somebody they feel is unstable. A
normal person would take a step back, and feel a certain amount of natural
compassion to somebody they felt was "out of control".

I don't want to flame back -- because that's not good for me, and honestly I
think something is wrong with him. I don't believe on beating up on mentally
ill people. Sometimes you have to return blows with compassion.

Speaking for myself I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but I've been
getting by with a little help from my friends and intend to overcome it,
completely. Dave was filled with hostility in a post back to me yesterday or
the day before... and of course, part of the flame involved the term "mental
illness". I'd hardly call PTSD an illness, perhaps a "disorder" which can be
fought, and overcame. I became affected by it after a marriage to an
excessively violent man. I was raised in a cult, which produced an excessive
amount of shame and guilt -- which pre-dispositioned me to be vulnerable to
this disorder. Associating with Freethinkers, non-believers has been a
tremendous help at healing a lot of spiritual scars.

I've noticed one thing in society and on usenet, truly educated people
(scientists and enlightened minds) they are the folks who remain calm in
stressful or chaotic situations and they don't lose control. Also, a truly
enlightened, intellectual person would exhibit compassion against somebody
they genuinely felt were mentally ill or let's say "their inferior". Isn't
that sort of childish -- sort of like kids pointing and saying "Four eyes!"
or beating up somebody because they're gay, or torturing somebody because
they're of a different color or ethnic group. Intolerance is intolerance. I
had to take a step back when I saw those posts under his headers. I couldn't
believe what he's sunken to. I'm not meaning to be mean or condescending --
because I've been there and done that -- been in counseling, but he's went
downhill.

He will attack me for what I just said too. (Or, he won't, to try to prove
me wrong.)

People who attempt to tear others down (whether or not the person is
inferior is indifferent):

Mark Twain Quotes - The Quotations Page
... Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that
you, too, can
become great.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Mark_Twain/31

I hope he seeks some help.
I'm not ashamed that I have struggled with PTSD for several years, and
finally I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm in good company.
A lot of Vietnam vets, victims of 911, etc., were diagnosed with the same
disorder. Good intelligent people.

Here's a story by a medical examiner after 911 that came down with PTSD.

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/columns/witness/9183/

A New York City medical examiner watches the video of Nick Berg's beheading
and wishes he'd looked away.
By Jonathan Hayes

Anyway, I watched it. A matchbook-size, low-res image of five masked men in
a white room, Nick Berg trussed at their feet. As much for effect as for
identification, the tape begins with clips of Berg speaking a bit, talking
of his family and his home, humanizing him for the audience before he is
murdered. One of the men reads in Arabic for much of the tape, the tension
increasing as he plows on and on with his manifesto. He stops, then cries
out "God is great!" and they fall on Berg, picking up the refrain, one man
dropping to pin Berg as another carves at his neck, all the while shouting
"God is great! God is great!" The sound is six or seven seconds out of sync:
Berg's screams begin long before they start cutting, and then there is
silence as they lift his severed head and jerkily pan to the pixelated slick
of blood around the body.

"Two years after 9/11, the Berg video unearthed emotions I had no desire to
feel."

And despite all that I've seen before, no matter how able to handle it I
thought myself, I knew immediately that the decision to watch had been a
mistake. There was no way for me to step back from the images, to gain
distance or perspective. Two years after 9/11, the Berg video unearthed
emotions I had no desire to feel: fury, despair, the desire for revenge. I
no longer cared about the atrocities committed in Abu Ghraib, the images of
which had outraged me the week before. I wanted every man in that little
death club captured, torn from their families, and dragged into the darkest
basement interrogation room.

I have done pretty badly since 9/11. It took us eight months to do the
preliminary recovery work, eight months in which we worked around the clock
in shifts, struggling to examine all the remains as well as taking care of
the daily autopsy caseload. I thought I was okay afterward, but I wasn't; I
was just crumbling rather quietly. I made it to February 2003 before I
really lost it. Nothing exciting: In Chicago for a conference, I found that
I couldn't bring myself to leave my hotel room. When I got back to New York,
I started seeing a counselor specializing in post-traumatic-stress disorder.
He said to me, "While a lot of soldiers came back from Vietnam with PTSD,
not everyone did. But every person who'd been charged with handling the
bodies developed PTSD." I supposed this was what they were saying to
everyone to give them permission to grieve.

My life seems to be gradually slipping away from me, or perhaps it's the
other way around-I'm slipping away from it. I've become reclusive, rarely
seeing my friends. Last year, I broke off my engagement; she deserved better
than what I have to offer. I don't want a new relationship. I communicate
mostly by e-mail now, and these days, if my phone rings, it's probably a
junk fax.

[...]

Good Story.
http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/columns/witness/9183/
<brevity>

Mental illness and disorders happen to very good people. Dave should be
ashamed of himself for using a disfortune people suffer with -- it is
saddening people struggle with problems of this nature, and he uses it as a
club to try hurting people, either because he is himself, or simply that
lacking in empathy for others... which in itself is a mental disorder.

An intellectually superior mind would not feel mental illness is something
to "poke fun at".

He needs counseling, after what I've been seeing him post on usenet.
That's my honest opinion, and I say it with without intending to offend.

"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:6m7cr018v45d32ocl3ku7eued60kfteevb@4ax.com...

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:07:20 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/23/severed.arms.ap/

Just like an abortion.

Too bad your mother didn't have one.

I've been off usenet for quite some time. Yesterday I was reading some of
his posts, and at first I wondered if somebody was playing around with his
identity -- and shrugged it off at best, out of character for him. Maybe
he's suffered a stroke or something. He's not the same person I remember
posting. I'm not saying that to be mean either. I was on usenet regularly,
about two years ago... through about the Spring 2003 or so. I checked in on
occasion. Something has happened to P.D.'s mind.

Earlier, a fellow posted on alt.bible:
Re: New to NG (four replies).
PD #1 "You just did. :)"
PD #2 "BTW, Welcome. :)"
PD #3 "BTW, Jambo!"
PD #4 "You just did; and like most made a poor attempt at it. Please see
how I do
it and learn from me."

Honestly, I see no posts to where he was responding to. Dunno.

I'm not saying that to be mean either. He's went down hill since I was on
usenet, (not saying he exhibited a lot of intelligence back then) but, he's
not the same Dave I remember.

I'm not saying that to be mean either. I believe strongly in tolerance. I'm
currently in college and we've just been covering Psychological
Disorders/Illnesses in Psychology class, and there's a strong emphasis on
compassion for people who have problems. In other words, it takes an
"unstable person" to sit there and attack somebody they feel is unstable. A
normal person would take a step back, and feel a certain amount of natural
compassion to somebody they felt was "out of control".

I don't want to flame back -- because that's not good for me, and honestly I
think something is wrong with him. I don't believe on beating up on mentally
ill people. Sometimes you have to return blows with compassion.

Speaking for myself I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but I've been
getting by with a little help from my friends and intend to overcome it,
completely. Dave was filled with hostility in a post back to me yesterday or
the day before... and of course, part of the flame involved the term "mental
illness". I'd hardly call PTSD an illness, perhaps a "disorder" which can be
fought, and overcame. I became affected by it after a marriage to an
excessively violent man. I was raised in a cult, which produced an excessive
amount of shame and guilt -- which pre-dispositioned me to be vulnerable to
this disorder. Associating with Freethinkers, non-believers has been a
tremendous help at healing a lot of spiritual scars.

I've noticed one thing in society and on usenet, truly educated people
(scientists and enlightened minds) they are the folks who remain calm in
stressful or chaotic situations and they don't lose control. Also, a truly
enlightened, intellectual person would exhibit compassion against somebody
they genuinely felt were mentally ill or let's say "their inferior". Isn't
that sort of childish -- sort of like kids pointing and saying "Four eyes!"
or beating up somebody because they're gay, or torturing somebody because
they're of a different color or ethnic group. Intolerance is intolerance. I
had to take a step back when I saw those posts under his headers. I couldn't
believe what he's sunken to. I'm not meaning to be mean or condescending --
because I've been there and done that -- been in counseling, but he's went
downhill.

He will attack me for what I just said too. (Or, he won't, to try to prove
me wrong.)

People who attempt to tear others down (whether or not the person is
inferior is indifferent):

Mark Twain Quotes - The Quotations Page
... Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that
you, too, can
become great.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Mark_Twain/31

I hope he seeks some help.
I'm not ashamed that I have struggled with PTSD for several years, and
finally I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm in good company.
A lot of Vietnam vets, victims of 911, etc., were diagnosed with the same
disorder. Good intelligent people.

Here's a story by a medical examiner after 911 that came down with PTSD.

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/columns/witness/9183/

A New York City medical examiner watches the video of Nick Berg's beheading
and wishes he'd looked away.
By Jonathan Hayes

Anyway, I watched it. A matchbook-size, low-res image of five masked men in
a white room, Nick Berg trussed at their feet. As much for effect as for
identification, the tape begins with clips of Berg speaking a bit, talking
of his family and his home, humanizing him for the audience before he is
murdered. One of the men reads in Arabic for much of the tape, the tension
increasing as he plows on and on with his manifesto. He stops, then cries
out "God is great!" and they fall on Berg, picking up the refrain, one man
dropping to pin Berg as another carves at his neck, all the while shouting
"God is great! God is great!" The sound is six or seven seconds out of sync:
Berg's screams begin long before they start cutting, and then there is
silence as they lift his severed head and jerkily pan to the pixelated slick
of blood around the body.

"Two years after 9/11, the Berg video unearthed emotions I had no desire to
feel."

And despite all that I've seen before, no matter how able to handle it I
thought myself, I knew immediately that the decision to watch had been a
mistake. There was no way for me to step back from the images, to gain
distance or perspective. Two years after 9/11, the Berg video unearthed
emotions I had no desire to feel: fury, despair, the desire for revenge. I
no longer cared about the atrocities committed in Abu Ghraib, the images of
which had outraged me the week before. I wanted every man in that little
death club captured, torn from their families, and dragged into the darkest
basement interrogation room.

I have done pretty badly since 9/11. It took us eight months to do the
preliminary recovery work, eight months in which we worked around the clock
in shifts, struggling to examine all the remains as well as taking care of
the daily autopsy caseload. I thought I was okay afterward, but I wasn't; I
was just crumbling rather quietly. I made it to February 2003 before I
really lost it. Nothing exciting: In Chicago for a conference, I found that
I couldn't bring myself to leave my hotel room. When I got back to New York,
I started seeing a counselor specializing in post-traumatic-stress disorder.
He said to me, "While a lot of soldiers came back from Vietnam with PTSD,
not everyone did. But every person who'd been charged with handling the
bodies developed PTSD." I supposed this was what they were saying to
everyone to give them permission to grieve.

My life seems to be gradually slipping away from me, or perhaps it's the
other way around-I'm slipping away from it. I've become reclusive, rarely
seeing my friends. Last year, I broke off my engagement; she deserved better
than what I have to offer. I don't want a new relationship. I communicate
mostly by e-mail now, and these days, if my phone rings, it's probably a
junk fax.

[...]

Good Story.
http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/columns/witness/9183/
<brevity>

Mental illness and disorders happen to very good people. Dave should be
ashamed of himself for using a disfortune people suffer with -- it is
saddening people struggle with problems of this nature, and he uses it as a
club to try hurting people, either because he is himself, or simply that
lacking in empathy for others... which in itself is a mental disorder.

An intellectually superior mind would not feel mental illness is something
to "poke fun at".

He needs counseling, after what I've been seeing him post on usenet.
That's my honest opinion, and I say it with without intending to offend.

"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:6m7cr018v45d32ocl3ku7eued60kfteevb@4ax.com...

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:07:20 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/23/severed.arms.ap/

Just like an abortion.

Too bad your mother didn't have one.

I've been off usenet for quite some time. Yesterday I was reading some of
his posts, and at first I wondered if somebody was playing around with his
identity -- and shrugged it off at best, out of character for him. Maybe
he's suffered a stroke or something. He's not the same person I remember
posting. I'm not saying that to be mean either. I was on usenet regularly,
about two years ago... through about the Spring 2003 or so. I checked in on
occasion. Something has happened to P.D.'s mind.

Earlier, a fellow posted on alt.bible:
Re: New to NG (four replies).
PD #1 "You just did. :)"
PD #2 "BTW, Welcome. :)"
PD #3 "BTW, Jambo!"
PD #4 "You just did; and like most made a poor attempt at it. Please see
how I do
it and learn from me."

Honestly, I see no posts to where he was responding to. Dunno.

I'm not saying that to be mean either. He's went down hill since I was on
usenet, (not saying he exhibited a lot of intelligence back then) but, he's
not the same Dave I remember.

I'm not saying that to be mean either. I believe strongly in tolerance. I'm
currently in college and we've just been covering Psychological
Disorders/Illnesses in Psychology class, and there's a strong emphasis on
compassion for people who have problems. In other words, it takes an
"unstable person" to sit there and attack somebody they feel is unstable. A
normal person would take a step back, and feel a certain amount of natural
compassion to somebody they felt was "out of control".

I don't want to flame back -- because that's not good for me, and honestly I
think something is wrong with him. I don't believe on beating up on mentally
ill people. Sometimes you have to return blows with compassion.

Speaking for myself I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but I've been
getting by with a little help from my friends and intend to overcome it,
completely. Dave was filled with hostility in a post back to me yesterday or
the day before... and of course, part of the flame involved the term "mental
illness". I'd hardly call PTSD an illness, perhaps a "disorder" which can be
fought, and overcame. I became affected by it after a marriage to an
excessively violent man. I was raised in a cult, which produced an excessive
amount of shame and guilt -- which pre-dispositioned me to be vulnerable to
this disorder. Associating with Freethinkers, non-believers has been a
tremendous help at healing a lot of spiritual scars.

I've noticed one thing in society and on usenet, truly educated people
(scientists and enlightened minds) they are the folks who remain calm in
stressful or chaotic situations and they don't lose control. Also, a truly
enlightened, intellectual person would exhibit compassion against somebody
they genuinely felt were mentally ill or let's say "their inferior". Isn't
that sort of childish -- sort of like kids pointing and saying "Four eyes!"
or beating up somebody because they're gay, or torturing somebody because
they're of a different color or ethnic group. Intolerance is intolerance. I
had to take a step back when I saw those posts under his headers. I couldn't
believe what he's sunken to. I'm not meaning to be mean or condescending --
because I've been there and done that -- been in counseling, but he's went
downhill.

He will attack me for what I just said too. (Or, he won't, to try to prove
me wrong.)

People who attempt to tear others down (whether or not the person is
inferior is indifferent):

Mark Twain Quotes - The Quotations Page
... Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that
you, too, can
become great.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Mark_Twain/31

I hope he seeks some help.
I'm not ashamed that I have struggled with PTSD for several years, and
finally I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm in good company.
A lot of Vietnam vets, victims of 911, etc., were diagnosed with the same
disorder. Good intelligent people.

Here's a story by a medical examiner after 911 that came down with PTSD.

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/columns/witness/9183/

A New York City medical examiner watches the video of Nick Berg's beheading
and wishes he'd looked away.
By Jonathan Hayes

Anyway, I watched it. A matchbook-size, low-res image of five masked men in
a white room, Nick Berg trussed at their feet. As much for effect as for
identification, the tape begins with clips of Berg speaking a bit, talking
of his family and his home, humanizing him for the audience before he is
murdered. One of the men reads in Arabic for much of the tape, the tension
increasing as he plows on and on with his manifesto. He stops, then cries
out "God is great!" and they fall on Berg, picking up the refrain, one man
dropping to pin Berg as another carves at his neck, all the while shouting
"God is great! God is great!" The sound is six or seven seconds out of sync:
Berg's screams begin long before they start cutting, and then there is
silence as they lift his severed head and jerkily pan to the pixelated slick
of blood around the body.

"Two years after 9/11, the Berg video unearthed emotions I had no desire to
feel."

And despite all that I've seen before, no matter how able to handle it I
thought myself, I knew immediately that the decision to watch had been a
mistake. There was no way for me to step back from the images, to gain
distance or perspective. Two years after 9/11, the Berg video unearthed
emotions I had no desire to feel: fury, despair, the desire for revenge. I
no longer cared about the atrocities committed in Abu Ghraib, the images of
which had outraged me the week before. I wanted every man in that little
death club captured, torn from their families, and dragged into the darkest
basement interrogation room.

I have done pretty badly since 9/11. It took us eight months to do the
preliminary recovery work, eight months in which we worked around the clock
in shifts, struggling to examine all the remains as well as taking care of
the daily autopsy caseload. I thought I was okay afterward, but I wasn't; I
was just crumbling rather quietly. I made it to February 2003 before I
really lost it. Nothing exciting: In Chicago for a conference, I found that
I couldn't bring myself to leave my hotel room. When I got back to New York,
I started seeing a counselor specializing in post-traumatic-stress disorder.
He said to me, "While a lot of soldiers came back from Vietnam with PTSD,
not everyone did. But every person who'd been charged with handling the
bodies developed PTSD." I supposed this was what they were saying to
everyone to give them permission to grieve.

My life seems to be gradually slipping away from me, or perhaps it's the
other way around-I'm slipping away from it. I've become reclusive, rarely
seeing my friends. Last year, I broke off my engagement; she deserved better
than what I have to offer. I don't want a new relationship. I communicate
mostly by e-mail now, and these days, if my phone rings, it's probably a
junk fax.

[...]

Good Story.
http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/columns/witness/9183/
<brevity>

Mental illness and disorders happen to very good people. Dave should be
ashamed of himself for using a disfortune people suffer with -- it is
saddening people struggle with problems of this nature, and he uses it as a
club to try hurting people, either because he is himself, or simply that
lacking in empathy for others... which in itself is a mental disorder.

An intellectually superior mind would not feel mental illness is something
to "poke fun at".

He needs counseling, after what I've been seeing him post on usenet.
That's my honest opinion, and I say it with without intending to offend.

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:18:10 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> pontificated:

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:07:20 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:22:14 -0500, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Sharon" <mail@creation-vs-evolution.us>
pontificated:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/23/severed.arms.ap/

Just like an abortion.

Too bad your mother didn't have one.

And they say Christians are the problem.

Randall Terry , founder of Operation Rescue:

"I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our
goal is a Christian Nation. We have a Biblical duty; we are called by God,
to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want
pluralism."