"Fred Stone" <Nunya@Biznez.net> wrote in message
news:4694cd3e$0$23065$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

G-Ride wrote:

"Fred Stone" <Nunya@Biznez.net> wrote in message
news:01d4dda6$0$16776$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

G-Ride wrote:

"Fred Stone" <Nunya@Biznez.net> wrote in message
news:01ef939c$0$9120$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

G-Ride wrote:

"Fred Stone" <Nunya@Biznez.net> wrote in message
news:01d40945$0$30103$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

G-Ride wrote:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9968C188016A7freddybear@216.151.153.46...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/drsanity/moore.jpg

Hey Fredo, did you bother to watch this Michael Moore film before
making
up your opinion on it?

Btw, you still haven't backed up your claim that Michael Moore
distorted
reality by including footage of Bush sitting in a classroom on
9/11
in
"Fahrenheit 9/11".

You're a liar, G-Ride.

lol. Feel free to show how that is a lie Fredo. Of course, we both
know that it isn't a lie, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

And by the way, as I specifically stated to you on numerous
occasions,
the
two links that you did try to pass off of proof of your idiotic
claims
about
the Bush classroom footage do not back up your claims. And in the
ultimate irony, I even pointed out to you several times that one of
your
links actually makes a specific statement that no one has ever
questioned the
authenticity of the Bush classroom footage used by Moore. This is,
of
course, exactly opposite of what you claim.

You lie, G-Ride.

lol. Poor Fredo. Once again, feel free to show how I am lying,
Fredo.

Been there, done that.

Just for shits & giggles, here's a review of your "been there, done
that"
when it comes to your claims about the Bush classroom footage:

This is, I believe, the first time that you presented your "evidence" to
anyone. In this case, it was a reply to Matt Silberstein:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/d277d98a85bcf981?hl=en&

Fred Stone:
"What you saw was a severely edited version of the event, from a
selected
camera angle that gave no indication that anything else might be going
on.

Here is what you *didn't* see in Moore's movie clip:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030412182814/www.washtimes.com/national/200
21007-85016651.htm

My source for that was:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
***

Matt's reply to you is here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/bdd74ae558a837e2?hl=en&

You never replied to Matt's assessment of your "evidence".

And here is my reply to your post above, with a couple sections quoted
below:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/d00882883874343d?hl=en&

Fred Stone:

What you saw was a severely edited version of the event,

G-Ride:
What, exactly, was "severely edited" Fred? Please provide details to
back
up your claim.

The video available online is not edited in any way that misrepresents
what
is going on in the classroom. And when Moore included the footage in
his
movie, his editing consisted of shortening the length of the clip.
(And,
if I recall correctly, he may have tightened the shot on Bush's face.)
...

Fred Stone:

Here is what you *didn't* see in Moore's movie clip:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030412182814/www.washtimes.com/national/200
21007-85016651.htm
My source for that was:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

G-Ride:
And no surprise, Fred's links do not support Fred's assertion that the
video footage was somehow edited to show Bush in an unfavorable light,
or
that the
camera angle was "selected". In fact, Fred's second link above states
that
no one has ever disputed the factual accuracy of the Bush video segment.
No one, I guess, except for Fred Stone.
***

A little while later, I posted a clarification to my statement about
what
I remembered of the footage:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/935e727d5c3441e7?hl=en&

G-Ride:
My recollection wasn't as good as I thought. I rewatched the relevant
portion of F 9/11 on youtube, as well as the footage I remember seeing
before F 9/11 had been released. Moore used footage from at least two
different cameras, not just the single camera footage that I remembered.
Other than that, he snipped the footage for brevity and added a clock to
show how much time had elapsed between shots. The footage used in F
9/11
does include narration from Moore that is obviously missing from the raw
footage that is available online.
***

You didn't reply to either of my posts.

Six days later, I ask you about it in another thread. Here is your
reply:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/c527c4e422b354fd?hl=en&

Fred Stone:
Oh, you're so funny, G-Ride. I did answer your stupid questions, I guess
you forgot:

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm


http://web.archive.org/web/20030412182814/www.washtimes.com/national/200
21007-85016651.htm

But then those have been around since long ago, plenty of time for G-
Ride to wash them out of his mind.
***

After a few more requests, you finally attempt to respond and defend
your
"evidence" and in the process make even more claims:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/de76c2bcdb2a307a?hl=en&

Fred Stone:
Here they are, G-Ride, my answers to your silly questions. Did you miss
them?

Nice attempt to dodge my specific questions about your specific
claims. And too bad for you, Fredo, your first link says that you are
wrong about your claim that Moore edited the footage of Bush to
distort reality. I already told you that, but apparently you've
forgotten:

Ah, but they don't say that I was wrong, in fact they support my claim
very nicely, or I would hardly use them.

And no surprise, Fred's links do not support Fred's assertion that the
video footage was somehow edited to show Bush in an unfavorable light,
or that the camera angle was "selected".

Ah, but they do, because they show that there was activity going on that
was *NOT SHOWN* in Moore's movie.

In fact, Fred's link above
states that no one has ever disputed the factual accuracy of the Bush
video segment. No one, I guess, except for Fred Stone.

Such is the nature of *lies by omission*, G-Ride.
But then you would know that.

So once again, Fred, how does the footage distort reality?

It *leaves out relevant facts*. Now feel free to ignore what I just said
*AGAIN* and ignore reality *AGAIN*, and fantasize about how your
impotence is really superiority *AGAIN*, G-Ride.
***

Here is my reply:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/717964066097b405?hl=en&

G-Ride:

Ah, but they don't say that I was wrong, in fact they support my claim
very nicely, or I would hardly use them.

So then show me specifically where they back up all your claims. It
should be quite simple for you to tell me what section from your link
backs up all the claims you made about Moore's use of the Bush 9/11
classroom footage. Where do your links provide evidence that Moore
"severely edited" the
footage? Where do your links provide evidence that the footage
"distorts
reality"? Where do your links provide evidence that Moore used a
"selected" camera angle?

Such is the nature of *lies by omission*, G-Ride.
But then you would know that.

lol. Give a Fred a rope and he'll hang himself. Is this about your
claim
that Ari Fleischer was "omitted"? You do know that the footage used by
Moore includes a shot of Fleischer, don't you?

But feel free to let me know what was omitted from the footage. You've
now made yet another claim about the footage, so go ahead and provide
some
evidence for it.

It *leaves out relevant facts*. Now feel free to ignore what I just
said
*AGAIN* and ignore reality *AGAIN*, and fantasize about how your
impotence is really superiority *AGAIN*, G-Ride.

What important facts, Fred? What specific facts are left out that
change
the fact that Bush sat in a classroom listening to a children's book for
over 7 minutes after he was told that the country was under attack.
That
is
the only claim made from the footage. So what "relevant facts" were
left
out that magically prove that Bush didn't sit in a classroom for over 7
minutes after he was told the country was under attack? All I'm asking
is
for you to provide one shred of evidence for your many claims.
***

And after asking you the above questions about the links you provided
and
the claims that you made, here is your eloquent reply:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/120fa69d99aa45c0?hl=en&

Fred Stone:
<snip G-Ride's ***** and bluster>

whoops, nothing left.
***

And here is your next reply to my questions about your claims and your
"evidence":
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/eba11662e0fed68e?hl=en&

Fred Stone:
G-Ride, having been kicked in the ***** *TWICE*, simply sticks his fingers
in his ears and screams "LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! YOU DIDN'T
ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!"
***

Too bad for you, that there isn't any "been there, done that" in any of
your
responses to requests that you present evidence for your claims. You've
continued to run away from your claims ever since. As I have said
before,
your "evidence" consisted of a puff-piece run down of Bush's day on
9/11,
and another link that specifically states that no one has ever disputed
the factual accuracy of the Bush video segment.

Fred, it is so obvious that you never even bothered to watch F 9/11,
before
you decided to have an opinion on what was in the film. You've stated
that Moore lied by omission in the film, and presumably your link to the
Moonie Times puff piece is your attempt to show that there was activity
going on in the classroom, other than Bush sitting there staring at a
book. Unfortunately for you and your claims and so-called evidence,
Moore
actually
includes footage of Ari Fleischer and others in the room. Not just
Bush.
These other people are able to be seen because there were several
cameras
in
the room and Moore included footage from several of them. This is also
unfortunate for you because you claimed that one of Moore's sins was
using
a "selected" camera angle.

And as I have already said quite a few times, your second link deals
briefly
with the Bush classroom footage used in F 9/11. Here is that section:

"Bush on September 11

Cheap Shot

Fahrenheit mocks President Bush for continuing to read the book My Pet
Goat to a classroom of elementary school children after he was told
about
the September 11 attacks. Actually, as reported in The New Yorker, the
book was Reading Mastery 2, which contains an exercise called "The Pet
Goat." The title of the book is not very important in itself, but the
invented title of My Pet Goat makes it easier to ridicule Bush.

What Moore did not tell you:

Gwendolyn Tose'-Rigell, the principal of Emma E. Booker Elementary
School,
praised Bush's action: "I don't think anyone could have handled it
better." "What would it have served if he had jumped out of his chair
and
ran out of the room?".

She said the video doesn't convey all that was going on in the
classroom,
but Bush's presence had a calming effect and "helped us get through a
very
difficult day."

"Sarasota principal defends Bush from 'Fahrenheit 9/11' portrayal,"
Associated Press, June 24, 2004. Also, since the President knew he was
on
camera, it was reasonable to expect that if he had suddenly sped out of
the room, his hasty movement would have been replayed incessantly on
television; leaving the room quickly might have exacerbated the national
mood of panic, even if Bush had excused himself calmly.

Moore does not offer any suggestion about what the President should have
done during those seven minutes, rather than staying calm for the sake
of
the classroom and of the public. Nor does Moore point to any way that
the
September 11 events might have turned out better in even the slightest
way
if the President had acted differently. I agree with Lee Hamilton, the
Vice-Chair of the September11 Commission and a former Democratic
Representative from Indiana: "Bush made the right decision in remaining
calm, in not rushing out of the classroom."

Moreover, as detailed by the Washington Times, Ari Fleischer was in the
back of the classroom, holding up a legal pad with the words, "DON'T SAY
ANYTHING YET." The Secret Service may well have been cautious about
moving
Bush, not only because of hijackings, but also because on the morning of
September 11, a Middle Eastern man had tried to gain personal access to
the President by falsely claiming that he was a journalist with a
scheduled interview, and by asking for a Secret Service agent by name

[Moore response: Defends the factual accuracy of the segment, which no
one
has ever disputed, except regarding the book's title.]"
***

Other than concluding that it was a "cheap shot", none of that helps you
to
prove any of your specific claims about the footage used by Moore. I've
asked you several times to point out any other section of that website
that I should look at regarding your claims, but you've always refused
to
answer. I wonder why that is.

And by the way, this post also proves that I'm not a liar. You are,
Fredo. And once again, it is painfully obvious that you never bothered
to
watch F
9/11 before you decided what was in it and what wasn't. And I'm sure
that
you'll do the same thing this time around.

LOL. You think that bald-faced lies about all this are going to make me
melt
into a puddle? You're a loser, G-Ride. You conveniently posted all the
evidence that I was right, and you were wrong. Thank you very much.

lol. Your denial of the reality right in front of you is comedy gold,
Fredo. It's still early in the day, but that's the best laugh I've had so
far. You're a sad pathetic individual Fredo, but you are at least good for
laughs. It's just too bad that you're so dishonest.

Feel free to point out any of the "bald-faced lies" that you claim I made.
It should be easy since, as you say, I conveniently posted my evidence.
Just quote me back exactly where it is that I lied. lol.

Does the kool-aid burn when it hits your vein?