| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"david ford" |
| Date: |
24 Jan 2004 09:28:51 PM |
| Object: |
Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
.
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 11:33:46 AM |
|
|
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com...
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Intelligent creators can create ice.
Thus all ice is created by intelligent creators.
Fascinating.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steven J." |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
24 Jan 2004 11:16:42 PM |
|
|
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com...
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Oddly, that would depend on *how* those clever humans create life. If
"creating life" means starting with some specific goal (whether a very
simple bacterium -- I don't think a virus qualifies as "life" -- or, e.g. a
unicorn) and putting molecules together to get it, that would not be a model
of any sort of abiogenesis not involving intelligent designers. But if
"creating life" means setting up a set of conditions that might plausibly
have occurred naturally somewhere in the solar system, and watching
self-replicating molecular systems spontaneously form and assemble
themselves into cells, that *would* support the view that intelligent design
was not necessary to produce life. If this seems a perverse judgment,
consider this: ice forms naturally in the arctic, and in other unusually
cold environments. Ice also forms in freezers, which no one suspects would
exist without intelligent design. Does this imply that ice must be, like
freezers, the product of intelligent design? Life, of course, is much more
complex and remarkable than ice -- but if the conditions necessary for it to
arise can occur naturally, duplicating those conditions in the lab and
getting life would support the notion that life does not require intelligent
design.
-- Steven J.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Boikat" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
24 Jan 2004 11:26:13 PM |
|
|
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com...
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
If the experiment replicates natural conditions, that is correct. It would
not lend any credence that intelligence was involved, though by the same
token, it would not rule it out. it would simply demonstrate that it could
well have occured naturally.
Boikat
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lord Calvert" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 01:29:33 AM |
|
|
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
If the experiment replicates natural conditions, that is correct. It would
not lend any credence that intelligence was involved, though by the same
token, it would not rule it out. it would simply demonstrate that it could
well have occured naturally.
Actually those experiments were done a half century ago by Harold Urey and
Stanley Miller.
Take methane, ammonia, molecular hydrogen and water. Add electricity. Wait one
week. At the end of the week 10-15% of the carbon (from the methane) had formed
into organic compounds. About 2% of the mixture was amino acids, the basic
building block of life.
Eight years later it was found that if you substituted the mix with hydrogen
cyanide and ammonia the production of amino acids (particularly adenine) was
dramatically increased. (the Juan Oro experiments)
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Brian Westley" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
24 Jan 2004 09:51:39 PM |
|
|
(david ford) writes:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Of course, because such experiments try to deliberately recreate the
conditions of an early earth. When lightning bolts are recreated
in the lab, that likewise shows lightning as a natural phenomenon,
not the actions of Thor.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mike Goodrich" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 07:11:02 AM |
|
|
(david ford) wrote in
news:b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Amazing that an action which would be direct evidence of a thesis will be
glommed on to and claimed to support its anti-thesis...
-mg
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steven J." |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 09:57:36 AM |
|
|
"Mike Goodrich" <goodrich_ms@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns947B5309314FFmichaelgoodrich@68.1.17.6...
dford3@gl.umbc.edu (david ford) wrote in
news:b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Amazing that an action which would be direct evidence of a thesis will be
glommed on to and claimed to support its anti-thesis...
I agree with you about Walter ReMine's eccentric claim that the consistent
nested hierarchy of life is evidence *against* common descent (since it
refutes a hypothesis of large-scale lateral gene transfer), but is this the
proper thread to discuss it?
OTOH, when researchers at NASA (belatedly) tried to find out what effect a
piece of foam hitting the shuttle's wing would have, by deliberately firing
a piece of foam at a sheet of the insulating material used, did their
activities constitute evidence that only deliberate intelligent action could
have brought down the _Columbia_? For that matter, as I and Greg G. have
both mentioned previously, does the ability of intelligently designed
freezers to produce ice show that only intelligent design can explain how
water gets cold enough to freeze?
-mg
-- Steven J.
.
|
|
|
| User: "AC" |
|
| Title: PotM Nomination (was Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life?) |
25 Jan 2004 11:59:40 AM |
|
|
["Followup-To:" header set to talk.origins.]
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:57:36 +0000 (UTC),
Steven J. <sjt1957NOSPAM@nts.link.net.INVALID> wrote:
"Mike Goodrich" <goodrich_ms@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns947B5309314FFmichaelgoodrich@68.1.17.6...
dford3@gl.umbc.edu (david ford) wrote in
news:b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Amazing that an action which would be direct evidence of a thesis will be
glommed on to and claimed to support its anti-thesis...
I agree with you about Walter ReMine's eccentric claim that the consistent
nested hierarchy of life is evidence *against* common descent (since it
refutes a hypothesis of large-scale lateral gene transfer), but is this the
proper thread to discuss it?
OTOH, when researchers at NASA (belatedly) tried to find out what effect a
piece of foam hitting the shuttle's wing would have, by deliberately firing
a piece of foam at a sheet of the insulating material used, did their
activities constitute evidence that only deliberate intelligent action could
have brought down the _Columbia_? For that matter, as I and Greg G. have
both mentioned previously, does the ability of intelligently designed
freezers to produce ice show that only intelligent design can explain how
water gets cold enough to freeze?
I know this is a short post, but you know, I almost feel like nominating it
for PotM. In two paragraphs it demolishes the notion that humans creating
life in a lab will falsify scientific theories of abiogenesis.
Ah, what the hell, I'm nominating this post.
--
Aaron Clausen
tao_of_cow/\alberni.net (replace /\ with @)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Greg G" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 06:10:31 AM |
|
|
(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com>...
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch ice, this
magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans will
support the belief that some ***** played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first ice crystals in my driveway two nights ago.
--
Greg G.
It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. --Yogi
Berra
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 01:49:59 PM |
|
|
(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com>...
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
So how come that you aren't intelligent? Are you implying that you're not human?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "H,R.Gruemm" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 01:55:44 AM |
|
|
(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com>...
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
When we replicated in a lab the conditions under which diamonds are
formed, and thus made artificial diamonds, this supported the beliefs
that subterranean intelligent gremlins are not necessary to make
diamonds.
The "if we can do it in the lab, it needs intelligence"-argument has
been shot dead by Kitcher (in his "Abusing science") many years ago.
Any attempt to resurrect it would require a necromancer of level 35 -
which david ford isn't.
Regards,
HRG.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Von Smith" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 01:01:34 AM |
|
|
(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com>...
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Yes, in very much the same way that our ability to drop objects
supports the notion that intelligence/mind plays no role in gravity,
or that being able to create nuclear fusion reactions supports the
notion that no intelligence/mind is needed to keep the sun burning.
Nature, to be commanded, must first be served. When we make stuff or
perform experiments, we are not warping reality with the magic of our
minds; all we do is create conditions that a particular model of how
nature works tells us is needed to produce some effect. "Mindless"
nature has to do the rest. We can't will objects to fall to the
ground. All we can do is release them and hope that we're right about
what's going to happen next. We can't make deuterium nuclei release
large amounts of energy when they slam together simply by being smart;
unless deuterium nuclei actually work that way, no amount of
intelligence/mind can coax energy out of them.
Abiogenesis experiments are proposed models of what dumb chemicals do
under certain conditions. If we ever succeeded in creating lifeforms
from scratch, it would demonstrate that the model used works. The
only question would then be whether such conditions are plausible in
nature without an intelligence/mind manipulating them. If it turns
out that the model used reasonably resembles what the early earth may
have been like, that would indeed be excellent evidence that no
special role for intelligence/mind was needed.
Von Smith
Fortuna nimis dat multis, satis nulli.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Frank J" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 08:10:44 AM |
|
|
(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com>...
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
And as you know, I am not one of them. I do understand, however, that
claiming that intelligence created the first life, only begs the
question of what created that intelligence, and so on. But since that
question is outside the scope of evolution and even abiogenesis of
earth life, the fact that it remains unanswered doesn't affect the
conclusions of those fields in the least.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
It will not support that claim. Nor will it invalidate any claim of
evolution. It may, however, help us arrive at a theory for how
abiogenesis occurred ~3.8 billion years ago. But if, by "chance," that
life happens to be a full-blown eukaryote, science may have to concede
that one of the hypotheses implied by anti-evolutionists (independent
origins) deserves further investigation. Meanwhile, it's quite ironic
that anti-evolutionists are not feverishly conducting this research,
but are content to recycle long-refuted misrepresentations of
evolution and abiogenesis, and peddle their false dichotomy.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "stew dean" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 07:27:15 AM |
|
|
(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com>...
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
Hopefully one day we can say most.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
This is a good question.
Some doubt we can create true intelligence or create lifeforms. Most
of these doubters have given reasons most exponents that claim life
(and thus intelligence) is possible to create artifically consider no
real barrier, or at least one you just go around. For example Roger
Penrose's infamous appeal to quantum physics in regards to the working
of the mind. People like the lone English expert on artificial life
Steve Grand feel that this simply not an issue and it's a matter of
getting the topology of a thinking system right in order for it to
really thing. Incidently Steve Grand was on Radio 4 recently talking
about his robotic orangotangs ability to recognise bannanas have not
been programmed to like other visual systems often favored in
industry.
No the second bit problem is that there needs to be a metric in place
so that it can objectively be said that something is intelligent or is
really thinking (as opposed to having all it's intelligence provided
from outside the system like a chess computer). Currently there is no
formal metric for life that I am aware of. For intelligence there is
the somewhat subjective turing test. For life there are many
conflicting definitions based upon our knowledge of biological life.
It's worth noting that the exponents of artifial life do not feel life
has to use the medium as biological life and that the process of life
can and will exist in different versions, such as in silicon.
So let's say we do create life and the commonly accepted metric has
found it to be truely alive - what then? Well there will still be
doubters - much like those who doubt evolution. The religious will
claim they have no soul, some will seek to destroy them, all the kind
of irrational human behavour we come to expect form our great species.
Finaly to give my take on the answer - my view is this new life we
create will be radically different to biological life, it will be
created to have a symbiotic relationship with ourselves. It will
clearly not be the same as natural life and but could potentialy adapt
to life serperate to ourselves if left to go ferrel. This is all just
a guess.
Will it possibly make us thing that some intelligence created us as
well? I strongly doubt it. With these new thinking machines our
knowledge collection processes will speed up and we would find out
sooner rather than later about some of the bigger questions, it's
potentialy exponential and could lead to what is called a technology
singularity. It could lead to us cheating evolution and expanding our
abilities without natural intervention.
The significance is huge - it's not so much a next stage of evolution
as a completely new model of developement for life. The philosphical,
religous and scientific reprecussions will be massive. Some folks like
Hugo De Gaia predict it will result in a war like no other with
Artilects fighting a war against natural humans. I think the artilects
would find some way of appeasing the natural humans as it'll just be
dumb to wipe out another species for the sake of it, it would be
pointless.
So it's a big question but I don't thing us creating life would
support the wild ideas of those who propose intelligent design as how
biological life originated. There's good Sci-fi and bad Sci-fi.
Stew Dean
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bogdan" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 06:33:09 AM |
|
|
(david ford) wrote:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
Many also believe intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the posts by david ford on alt.atheism.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 02:56:52 AM |
|
|
In article <b1c67abe.0401241926.50df3490@posting.google.com>,
(david ford) wrote:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Humans did not exist 4 bya. Yet life exists. Where is you evidence that
something intelligent had something to do with the origin of the first
living organism? How did it make the first life form?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, bit in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
24 Jan 2004 11:12:46 PM |
|
|
In talk.origins I read this message from
(david ford):
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
You write of intelligence as though it were some supernatural
entity. If humans set up conditions such that life forms view the
laws of chemistry it would mean that life can form via the laws
of chemistry given those conditions. This would show that
supernatural entities are not necessary for life to form. If the
conditions we use to "create" life are similar to expect
conditions in the early Earth it would imply that life could have
formed under those conditions, formed via the laws of chemistry
without the necessity of a supernatural entity.
--
Matt Silberstein
I want to be different, I just don't want to change.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Severian" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
24 Jan 2004 10:50:03 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:28:51 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrote:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Wow. 'Tis amazing to see the fortitude with which you still pretend to
grasp at illusions of imaginary straws.
- Sev
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "R.Schenck" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 01:13:10 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:28:51 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrote:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
if they create lifeforms moleculr by molecule (oh wait the kinda did
that already anyways) then it wouldn be especially helpful on the
issue. if the figure out what the early prebiotic conditions on earth
were, recreate them, and find life forming in those experiments, well
even then it couldn't rule out miracles, but then again what would.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "pan" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 02:58:05 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:28:51 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrote:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
The only form of intelligence/sentience we know of appears to have
come about gradually via the processes of evolution.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Does 'life', and the eventual appearance of homo sapiens, really
indicate an omnipotent and omniscient creator Being?
e.g. Why did this 'Being' bother with spending 140 million years
developing the different species of dinosaurs, only to wipe them out
with an asteroid (or comet)? Not very efficient, to say the least.
Perhaps the dinos were the first of 'God's People' to fall into
disfavor. =-/
pan
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Giwer" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
24 Jan 2004 10:59:41 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, david ford wrote:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
No one accepts anything without physical evidence. There is no
evidence of such a thing in the universe.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
Give me four billion years and I'll do it. Not even I would say I am
intelligent.
--
Did anyone ever thank Alexander Graham Bell
for making phone sex possible?
-- The Iron Webmaster, 2996
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "AC" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 11:55:46 AM |
|
|
["Followup-To:" header set to talk.origins.]
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:28:51 +0000 (UTC),
david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
Provide evidence of this intelligence/mind.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
It's will demonstrate that an intelligence can create life. It will not
falsify the notion of naturalistic abiogenesis and evolution.
In short, David, there may be many ways to skin this particular cat, and
only one of them will require intelligent input.
Is there any other reason you are creating all these threads that you likely
have no intention of paying any attention to? Are you ever going to debate
John Wilkins?
--
Aaron Clausen
tao_of_cow/\alberni.net (replace /\ with @)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "John Wilkins" |
|
| Title: Re: Significance of intelligent humans creating life? |
25 Jan 2004 12:18:47 AM |
|
|
david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
Many believe that intelligence/mind played no role whatsoever in the
appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years ago.
If and when clever/intelligent humans create from scratch lifeforms,
this magnificent achievement on the part of clever/intelligent humans
will support the belief that intelligence/mind played no role
whatsoever in the appearance of the first lifeforms 4-15 billion years
ago.
So, I take it that the debate is finished? You have nothing to say in
response to my crits?
--
John Wilkins
wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
