Oh, and here I thought it was supposed to be obvious *now*. What is
obvious is that Iraq is well on its way to being a self-sustaining
democracy. They already handle much of their own internal security
and the "insurgents" are on the run.

You wish. It is obvious to any thinking person today, I am referring
to fanatics to continue to insist we are winning. Even you will one
day see the fiasco in all of its unfortunate dimensions.

Fred Stone wrote:

"

Sure it can. And the resulting war would be fought with nukes. And
China knows *that*. "

So you would personally approve of nuclear war with China over the
Taiwan issue. I wasn't sure where you came from but this is
informative.

I wouldn't start the war, but if China starts it, the US will not
back away.

Perhaps you wouldn't. But it will not be your decision, thank the
heavens. Once the American people realize that nuclear war is a very
real possibility I think sanity will prevail. You and your kind can
go howl in the night in protest.

At this point I believe that my side will win the public debate in
this country. Ask the American public if they would be willing to
trade some of our major cities in order to save face in a
confrontation with China.

If China blew up a carrier group, you can pretty well bet that the US
would strike and strike hard.

I suspect that before they put a carrier group in danger's way they
will realize the possible outcomes. Once we only have the nuclear
option left, then I suspect saner heads will prevail and the US will
realize that there is really only a single outcome to the One China
Policy.

But thanks for one point. You have clarified the real dangers that
are lurking in the Taiwan issue. You are not alone. There are major
players in this country that are pushing for a war with China that
could easily go nuclear. Most are discreet enough to keep that
alternative out of the discussion, so thank-you for your honesty.

No point in arguing about Iraq. You seem to know something that
only the very truest believers still believes it.

Talk about true believers, you've got that title sewed up. Defeatists
like you have po'mouthed American power in every conflict since the
Civil War. You've usually been dead wrong.

Let's see. I opposed sending US troops to Vietnam. We turned tail
and ran.
I thougth sending the marines to Beirut in the 1980's was a
mistake. Reagan finally thought so too and he made a fast exit once
we lost those 241 marines.

It will be obvious to
practically any semi literate person in say one or two years that
we lost and lost big time in Iraq.

Oh, and here I thought it was supposed to be obvious *now*. What is
obvious is that Iraq is well on its way to being a self-sustaining
democracy. They already handle much of their own internal security
and the "insurgents" are on the run.

You wish.

It is obvious to any thinking person today, I am referring
to fanatics to continue to insist we are winning. Even you will one
day see the fiasco in all of its unfortunate dimensions.

In one respect Bush has struck a blow
for world peace by invading Iraq. Never again, will the US be able
to mobilize international armies to do our bidding as in Iraq, 1991
or against Serbia in 1999.

Don't kid yourself. The international community is waking up to the
fact that the US has acheived its purposes in Iraq and Afghanistan
and broken the power of the remaining tyrannies in the mideast in the
process.

Well I agree that we have turned something loose in the MidEast, I
doubt that we will hail the eventual outcome as a victory for the US.

But that is looking too far into the future, I really do not know what
is going to happen. But extrapolating from our current position, I
would say defeat for the US.

If we wuss out on Taiwan, there will be nothing to keep our other
friends from losing faith in our support."

Have'nt you noticed a certain 'loss of faith' among our friends in
say Europe over the past three years.

I have noticed a considerable change in that alleged sentiment in the
recent past. Maybe you've heard of places like Lebanon and the
Ukraine?

Lebanon? Let us see, yesterday 500,000 people rallied in support of
Hezbollah and Syria in Beirut.

This dwarfed the antiSyrian
demonstrations being carried out by the Christian minority. You are
really delusional if you call that a victory for American interests.

" Our military is very powerful
too, and we *do* support independence."

Of course our military is very dangerous. We really do have it in
our power to destroy much of the civilized world. There are
growing numbers of people around the world that are worried about
just that.
You certainly, support the nuclear option in pursuing American
interests.

Oh yawn, you sound like the "Union of Concerned Scientists" crap from
the late '80s before the USSR collapsed. The "nuclear option" is a
last resort, but it's the final threat that prevents China from doing
whatever it wants in the Far East.

" China's war party can have it's
"breakaway province" a smoking radioactive slag heap, if that's
what they want. "

Yes that is the threat the rest of the world is beginning to
realize.

And here I thought you said it was obvious already.

US military power is exceedingly dangerous.

That's the whole idea, duh.

It will be the
responsibility of the American people to contain that power.
Actually, I am an optimist. I think we can defeat this kind of
madness.

I think so too, if the kind of madness you're talking about is the
sort of defeatist nonsense that you're pushing.

Thanks again for making it clear to us that the issue is the very real
possibility of nuclear war. I think when the debate is phrased in
those terms, that we will see a sane policy emerge on Taiwan -- and
that policy is recognition of the reality of One China.

Mike Syvanen

Oh, by the way, can you fix up your quoting software to use the >
instead of "" marks?

Sometimes it works and then sometimes it fails me. It is beyond my
abilities at the present time to fix it.