Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?

Religions > Atheism > Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?

LINK TO THIS PAGE

rating : 0 | 0

Page 1 of 1

Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Truth Hunter"
Date:	14 Jan 2005 03:02:16 PM
Object:	Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?

Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with
Jesus?
I've heard this line enough times now. We're all bound for hell etc.
The only way to be saved is by having a personal relationship with
Jesus.
But it strikes me that this sounds like quite a touchy feely 80s Deanna
Troi expression. I find it hard to believe people were saying this in
the 1600s.
So when was this particular doctrine invented? And before that,
everyone went to hell, right?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Bumper Sticker
*============================================================================*
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !
*============================================================================*
.

User: "bam"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	16 Jan 2005 05:17:13 AM

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote

The Bible teaches a personal relationship with Jesus.

The Bible doesn't "teach" anything. The Bible is a book. Books don't speak.
Books don't talk. If you just stand up and look at it, it won't say a thing;
it won't move; it won't try to attract your attention.
So don't say "the Bible teaches". It's irresponsible, and misleading.
Instead, say, "I have studied the Bible and from what I can gather, I
believe........"
Then *you* would be teaching about the Bible. Which is OK, as long as you
state that it's merely your opinion, no greater or worse than anyone elses.
But by saying, "the Bible teaches", you underhandedly attach your opinions
to the word of God, as if they are inseparable, and mislead the reader into
thinking that your opinion is God inspired.
BAM
.

User: "icono"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	16 Jan 2005 05:10:22 AM

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8vriu05q23h4qhb7f9fbptcg6396q1v99f@4ax.com...

On 14 Jan 2005 07:02:16 -0800, while scaling the Mt.

The Bible teaches a personal relationship with Jesus.

A relationship with Jesus is a RESULT not a prerequisite.
.

User: "•R.L.Measures"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	16 Jan 2005 08:59:50 AM

In article <QImGd.3021$hu.197@fed1read01>, "icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote:

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8vriu05q23h4qhb7f9fbptcg6396q1v99f@4ax.com...

On 14 Jan 2005 07:02:16 -0800, while scaling the Mt.

The Bible teaches a personal relationship with Jesus.

A relationship with Jesus is a RESULT not a prerequisite.

** Is a relationship with Jesus something a gay guy might like?
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
.

User: "icono"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	17 Jan 2005 04:40:00 AM

".R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r_-1601050059490001@192.168.1.101...

In article <QImGd.3021$hu.197@fed1read01>, "icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote:

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8vriu05q23h4qhb7f9fbptcg6396q1v99f@4ax.com...

On 14 Jan 2005 07:02:16 -0800, while scaling the Mt.

The Bible teaches a personal relationship with Jesus.

A relationship with Jesus is a RESULT not a prerequisite.

** Is a relationship with Jesus something a gay guy might like?

To some "relationship" means sex and then there are humans.
.

User: "•R.L.Measures"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	17 Jan 2005 10:56:15 AM

In article <kmHGd.3724$hu.3604@fed1read01>, "icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote:

".R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r_-1601050059490001@192.168.1.101...

In article <QImGd.3021$hu.197@fed1read01>, "icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote:

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8vriu05q23h4qhb7f9fbptcg6396q1v99f@4ax.com...

On 14 Jan 2005 07:02:16 -0800, while scaling the Mt.

The Bible teaches a personal relationship with Jesus.

A relationship with Jesus is a RESULT not a prerequisite.

** Is a relationship with Jesus something a gay guy might like?

To some "relationship" means sex and then there are humans.

^^ ¿ ?
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
.

User: "icono"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	17 Jan 2005 03:53:30 PM

".R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r_-1701050256150001@192.168.1.101...

In article <kmHGd.3724$hu.3604@fed1read01>, "icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote:

".R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r_-1601050059490001@192.168.1.101...

In article <QImGd.3021$hu.197@fed1read01>, "icono" <icono@cox.net>
wrote:

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8vriu05q23h4qhb7f9fbptcg6396q1v99f@4ax.com...

On 14 Jan 2005 07:02:16 -0800, while scaling the Mt.

The Bible teaches a personal relationship with Jesus.

A relationship with Jesus is a RESULT not a prerequisite.

** Is a relationship with Jesus something a gay guy might like?

To some "relationship" means sex and then there are humans.

^^ ¿ ?

Gay has nothing to do with relationship. Gay refers to sexual practice.
Love has nothing to do with sex or Gay.
A man can deeply love another man to the point that he cannot get by alone
without the other man. This is not a definition of Gay or homosexual.
Humans have personal relationships.
Animals have sex (of course humans also have sex).
The uneducated call a man who has sex with another man a homosexual, a man
who has sex with male and female, bisexual, a man who has sex with women
only a heterosexual. What is a man who only has sex with a rubber doll?
What is a man who has no sex. If you answer celibate you have described a
self selected mode of sexual life (like ALL the rest). The person who calls
himself a heterosexual and rants about homosexuals is in fact sex crazed.
The same with the "gay" who runs around professing his own sexual habits.
To some "relationship" means sex and then there are humans.
.

User: "•R.L.Measures"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	18 Jan 2005 09:44:26 AM

In article <KdRGd.3774$hu.2113@fed1read01>, "icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote:

".R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r_-1701050256150001@192.168.1.101...

In article <kmHGd.3724$hu.3604@fed1read01>, "icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote:

".R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r_-1601050059490001@192.168.1.101...

In article <QImGd.3021$hu.197@fed1read01>, "icono" <icono@cox.net>
wrote:

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8vriu05q23h4qhb7f9fbptcg6396q1v99f@4ax.com...

On 14 Jan 2005 07:02:16 -0800, while scaling the Mt.

The Bible teaches a personal relationship with Jesus.

A relationship with Jesus is a RESULT not a prerequisite.

** Is a relationship with Jesus something a gay guy might like?

To some "relationship" means sex and then there are humans.

^^ ¿ ?

Gay has nothing to do with relationship. Gay refers to sexual practice.
Love has nothing to do with sex or Gay.

** okay

A man can deeply love another man to the point that he cannot get by alone
without the other man. This is not a definition of Gay or homosexual.
Humans have personal relationships.
Animals have sex (of course humans also have sex).
The uneducated call a man who has sex with another man a homosexual, a man
who has sex with male and female, bisexual, a man who has sex with women
only a heterosexual. What is a man who only has sex with a rubber doll?

** A loner?

What is a man who has no sex. If you answer celibate you have described a
self selected mode of sexual life (like ALL the rest). The person who calls
himself a heterosexual and rants about homosexuals is in fact sex crazed.

** Research at the University of Georgia indicated that such ranters
produce higher readings on a plethysmograph when shown pictures of
homosexual coupling than readings when shown pictures of heterosexual
coupling.

The same with the "gay" who runs around professing his own sexual habits.

To some "relationship" means sex and then there are humans.

** well put.
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
.

User: "rj"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	14 Jan 2005 06:01:32 PM

"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1105714936.397350.134400@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

I am not sure when it started but I believe the expression has been around
for many years. I know it was used in the 70's and suspect it had been
used 20 years before that.
How can one have a personal relationship with a dead person? Can one have
a personal relationship with ones great great grandmother? How about Abe
Lincoln? Maybe John Wayne? The whole thing is rather silly and
wishful/delusional thinking.
Interestingly enough the JW say there is no heaven or hell for us. At
least, or possibly at most, they have that part right.
Hell is just a simple motivational tool for the masses. It actually
translates to fear. Fear of torture for all of eternity with no hope of
relief. If I believed that God and Hell existed it would likely motivate
me to become God's buddy. Consider this, God would condemn one to an
eternity of unspeakable torture..."but he loves us". *****! The Xtian
God is a sadistic, sick ***** that doesn't care about anyone or
anything. To celebrate his birthday he killed 50,000 children for no
apparant reason at all. That alone proves that God does not exist. No
being could be that sadistic and sick.
rj
.

User: "knighTslayer"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	14 Jan 2005 06:55:22 PM

Reminds me of the term necrophilia.
k
"rj" <rj@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95DE7A555E42Dbvzxrpl@10.232.1.1...

"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1105714936.397350.134400@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

I am not sure when it started but I believe the expression has been around
for many years. I know it was used in the 70's and suspect it had been
used 20 years before that.

How can one have a personal relationship with a dead person? Can one have
a personal relationship with ones great great grandmother? How about Abe
Lincoln? Maybe John Wayne? The whole thing is rather silly and
wishful/delusional thinking.

Interestingly enough the JW say there is no heaven or hell for us. At
least, or possibly at most, they have that part right.

Hell is just a simple motivational tool for the masses. It actually
translates to fear. Fear of torture for all of eternity with no hope of
relief. If I believed that God and Hell existed it would likely motivate
me to become God's buddy. Consider this, God would condemn one to an
eternity of unspeakable torture..."but he loves us". *****! The Xtian
God is a sadistic, sick ***** that doesn't care about anyone or
anything. To celebrate his birthday he killed 50,000 children for no
apparant reason at all. That alone proves that God does not exist. No
being could be that sadistic and sick.

rj

User: "bam"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	14 Jan 2005 03:08:05 PM

"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105714936.397350.134400@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

It is a novelty, nowhere found in antiquity. (this "personal relationship"
thing). It's a backhanded way of saying, "Churches? We don't need no
stinking churches!"
BAM
.

User: "dgillesp"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship withJesus?	14 Jan 2005 11:40:12 PM

bam wrote:

"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105714936.397350.134400@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

It is a novelty, nowhere found in antiquity. (this "personal relationship"
thing). It's a backhanded way of saying, "Churches? We don't need no
stinking churches!"

Very perceptive. By Jove, I think you've got it right.

BAM

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 01:35:12 AM

On 14 Jan 2005 07:02:16 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com>
pontificated:

The Bible teaches a personal relationship with Jesus.

So when was this particular doctrine invented? And before that,
everyone went to hell, right?

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html

Yea, there's a source about Christianity to be trusted.
I don't think so. :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.

User: "bam"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 03:38:13 PM

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote

The Bible teaches ....................

The Bible is a book. Books don't speak. Books don't talk. If you just stand
up and look at it, it won't say a thing; it won't move; it won't try to
attract your attention.
So don't say "the Bible teaches". It's irresponsible, and misleading.
Instead, say, "I have studied the Bible and from what I can understand, I
believe........"
Then *you* would be teaching the Bible. Which is OK, as long as you state
that it's merely your opinion, no greater or worse thatn anyone elses.
But by saying, "the Bible teaches", you underhandedly attach your opinions
to the word of God, as if they are inseparable, and mislead the reader into
thinking that your opinion is God inspired.
BAM
.

User: "•R.L.Measures"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	16 Jan 2005 08:57:57 AM

In article <DLaGd.683$SK6.324@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote

The Bible teaches ....................

The Bible is a book. Books don't speak. Books don't talk. If you just stand
up and look at it, it won't say a thing; it won't move; it won't try to
attract your attention.

So don't say "the Bible teaches". It's irresponsible, and misleading.
Instead, say, "I have studied the Bible and from what I can understand, I
believe........"

Then *you* would be teaching the Bible. Which is OK, as long as you state
that it's merely your opinion, no greater or worse thatn anyone elses.

But by saying, "the Bible teaches", you underhandedly attach your opinions
to the word of God, as if they are inseparable, and mislead the reader into
thinking that your opinion is God inspired.

• And that is the engine of the priestcrafter game.
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
.

User: "Komin"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 03:44:42 PM

I am sure the Jews would disagree with this statement
.

User: "bam"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 04:43:59 PM

"Komin" <veakrin@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105803882.563136.250050@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

I am sure the Jews would disagree with this statement

It's such an idiotic statement anyway.
What other kind of relationship could one have with Jesus? A filial
relationship? A pen pal relationship? A mathematical relationship?
BAM
.

User: "Chuckles"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 05:51:17 PM

"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message

"Komin" <veakrin@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105803882.563136.250050@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

I am sure the Jews would disagree with this statement

It's such an idiotic statement anyway.

What other kind of relationship could one have with Jesus? A filial
relationship? A pen pal relationship? A mathematical relationship?

How about a non relationship?
.

User: "sanguinevikings"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationshipwith Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 09:14:56 PM

Chuckles wrote:

How about a non relationship?

That's the one. Mine's going just great, and I have committed my self to
a life-long one. Sorted!
.

User: "Bill"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 12:42:15 AM

There are dozens of different religions and hundreds of different beliefs.
There is NO objective evidence as to who's god ( if any )is the real god and
which ones are phonies.
Why don't all the religious types require that their god prove he is the
real god???
--
Bill
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105714936.397350.134400@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

*===========================================================================
=*

DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !

*===========================================================================
=*

User: "•R.L.Measures"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 09:37:10 AM

In article <HFZFd.7323$S11.6682@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

There are dozens of different religions and hundreds of different beliefs.

There is NO objective evidence as to who's god ( if any )is the real god and
which ones are phonies.

^^ Our god is the real one and our god wants us to kill people who belong
to other religions.

....

--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
.

User: "Ike"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 04:43:39 PM

you are TOP-POSTING!!
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:HFZFd.7323$S11.6682@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

There are dozens of different religions and hundreds of different beliefs.

There is NO objective evidence as to who's god ( if any )is the real god

and

which ones are phonies.

Why don't all the religious types require that their god prove he is the
real god???

--
Bill
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105714936.397350.134400@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

*===========================================================================

DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !

*===========================================================================

User: "Sam"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationshipwith Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 12:56:27 AM

you mean a three day battle royale?
Bill wrote:

User: "Ike"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 04:43:38 PM

"Sam" <srcarruth@yahoo.NO.SPAM.com> wrote in message
news:%SZFd.11494$5R.10247@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

you mean a three day battle royale?

Bill wrote:

There are dozens of different religions and hundreds of different

beliefs.

There is NO objective evidence as to who's god ( if any )is the real god

and

which ones are phonies.

Why don't all the religious types require that their god prove he is the
real god???

I know you're new here, so i made the same mistake you are making when I
first started posting here. TOP-POSTING!!!
--
The argument that everything had a Creator because it's too complicated, is
about as reasonable as saying that it couldn't have been created since it's
too complicated.
It's about like saying that a super flea created a dog. Then
the good fleas go to a great dog in the sky, while the bad unbelieving fleas
are scratched off into a super rug to be forever hungry. If you think dogs
weren't created by a Great Flea then you are an afleaist.
.

User: "j w"
Title: Re: Since when: The only way to be saved is a personal relationship with Jesus?	15 Jan 2005 12:51:31 AM

This particular doctrine comes from the mouth of Jesus Himself.
JN 14:5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are
going, so how can we know the way?"
--> JN 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the
life. No one comes to the Father except through me. <---
7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now
on, you do know him and have seen him."
So blame all this Christian hysteria on Jesus.
jw

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html

Bumper Sticker

*============================================================================*
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !

*============================================================================*

Page 1 of 1

Post reply

Foster care is a form of government-sanctioned child abuse that createsan environment where children are thrown out onto the streets when they turn18 with no support systems
When dealing with fundies
Re: something to consider when dealing with proselyting nut cases like DILV, Pastor Fraud, Lenny Abbott and all the rest:
OT: I will be so glad when the "Election" *****'s done with for awhile
So When Will "Pro-Life" Christians Butt Head With JW Christians?
Yonkers cops: Nanuet woman telling cops about theft when thief strolls by with her loot
I am married has 40 years. It has 30, I I become related with young travestis. I know that I am made a mistake in relation to my woman, but the desire that I feel when I see a beauty travesti makes me to lose the control total. My woman already disco
But When a GOP Skips Out a Briefing, Hypocrite Fred Is Okay With It

Re: Requested: They Laughed When I Told Them I Talked With The Angels...But Then They Saw The Glorious Results...
What happens when you cross a sheep with a lemming?
. am having some problems with my psychiatrist, and i don't know which of us is wrong. she recently told me, when i was having a crisis and was totally unglued, how frustrating it is for her to treat me.
< Worship of God and other spiritual good works will only gain Divine acceptance and manifest the miracles of Rahimiyyat when they are done in conjunction with serving humanity and God's creation>
she will generally return except for Hussein when the pathetic steps bless along with the delighted vat
Mistakes Atheists and Christians make when dialoguing with eachother...
He can significantly rely contrary to Steven when the loyal raids advocate in line with the accessible radio.

NEWER

pg.3585 pg.2749 pg.2106 pg.1612 pg.1232 pg.940 pg.716 pg.544 pg.412 pg.311 pg.234 pg.175 pg.130 pg.96 pg.70 pg.50 pg.35 pg.24 pg.16 pg.10 pg.6 pg.3 pg.1

OLDER