| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Robby Bobby" |
| Date: |
22 Oct 2005 09:41:55 AM |
| Object: |
Skimpy morals and dress |
Pastor blasts skimpy dress
Threatens not to officiate at funerals
Observer Reporter
Monday, February 28, 2005
A Seventh-day Adventist pastor warned yesterday that he will stop
officiating at funerals at his Hagley Park church if female mourners,
especially of young murder victims, continue to turn up in skimpy
dresses and the men smoke ganja and drink beer and other alcoholic
beverages on the premises.
"We are sorry that the day will come when we will not allow your
funeral at the church," the Rev Roy Gordon told the congregation
attending the funeral of two children - Paul Brown, six, and his sister
Sabrina Tulloch, three - who died in a fire at their Duhaney Park,
Kingston home a fortnight ago.
"Funeral service is a worship to help others to recognise that God will
help them in their grief," Gordon said. "You either work with us or we
cannot do your funerals."
Gordon's anger was directed not so much at the mourners of the children
- whose mother, Marrian Miller, 30, remains in custody and was taken to
yesterday's service under police escort. It was triggered by those who
attended one earlier in the afternoon of a young male murder victim.
At the time the service for Paul and Sabrina was about to start, the
pungent smell of ganja still hung in the air, and just outside the
church gates vendors sold beer, stout and other drinks.
In a pre-funeral interview, Gordon complained about the behaviour of
some of his funeral congregations in a manner that carried echoes of
last August's denunciation by the Bishop Herro Blair of young people's
fashion, such as form-hugging clothes, mini-skirts, hipster trousers
and mid-riff blouses.
However, Gordon did not extend his concern to Blair's claim - that
triggered a widespread outcry - that such dressing by women invited
rapists, preferring to confine the issue to morality and respect.
"I am on the verge of stopping community funerals, especially those
funerals where the deceased were murdered, because of the intolerable
behaviour of the mourners," he told the Observer.
"The dress of the women should not be allowed in the church because
this is a holy place and it should be respected as such," Gordon told
the Observer.
Added Gordon: "The dignity of the women and the respect of the young
men are gone to the dogs, and as a minister of the gospel I cannot
allow that to continue in my church. I am shocked at the discipline and
reverence being paid to the house of God - the church."
He later picked up the issue during his sermon for the children's
funeral.
"How will you feel if we have to shut down the church doors on you?" he
asked rhetorically. "I hope that the behaviour and the dress code of
the church will be adhered to."
Earlier, Gordon told the Observer that refusing to do community
funerals would be a difficult decision, but that the good may have to
"suffer for the bad".
"I have to do a heavy screening for funerals," he said. "We make the
request to the relatives to observe our rules. They usually say 'yes',
but it never happens. So in the light of that, we have to stop
funerals. and hope that when we resume, the behaviour and dress code at
the church will be adhered to."
In the sermon for the children, Gordon said since 2001 he had conducted
more than 100 funerals of persons, mostly males, between ages 16 and
28. "Most of these were of people destroyed by the gun," he said.
Claiming that Satan was "going forth like a roaring lion" and was
grabbing hold of the "now generation", Gordon appealed for a return to
prayer, which, he said, was the foundation of the country but from
which Jamaicans had digressed.
"So we must pray," he said. "Don't say you are too sinful to pray. The
fact that you recognise that you are too sinful to pray is all the more
reason for you to pray." Gordon also urged the children's mother, who
is being investigated for negligence, to be prayerful and strong,
reminding her of the Biblical story of Job who lost 10 children "but
never lost faith in God".
No mother, the pastor said, would allow her children to be destroyed.
Speaking directly to Miller, Gordon said: "Don't even worry about the
law taking you into custody. Don't worry about what people of your
community say.
". A mistake was made and God will be your judge. I can't change
anything, but I will be in court to sit beside you, as God will deliver
because He understands the situation and He will take full control."
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
23 Oct 2005 10:30:44 AM |
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Robby Bobby wrote:
Pastor blasts skimpy dress
Threatens not to officiate at funerals
Observer Reporter
Monday, February 28, 2005
A Seventh-day Adventist pastor warned yesterday that he will stop
officiating at funerals at his Hagley Park church if female mourners,
especially of young murder victims, continue to turn up in skimpy
dresses and the men smoke ganja and drink beer and other alcoholic
beverages on the premises.
"We are sorry that the day will come when we will not allow your
funeral at the church," the Rev Roy Gordon told the congregation
attending the funeral of two children - Paul Brown, six, and his sister
Sabrina Tulloch, three - who died in a fire at their Duhaney Park,
Kingston home a fortnight ago.
This reminds me of two examples of xian hypocrisy from
the last few years:
1) The family of a man (Arizona, I think it was) who
were upset when the priest said their father was in
hell for not attending church, despite being bedridden.
2) The cultholic priest in Brazil who said women needed
a certificate from a doctor proving they were virgins or
he wouldn't do their wedding ceremony.
Instead of dealing with the paedophiles, the religious
are attacking those they would prey on. It's probably
because the priests and pederasts, uh, pastors, can't
hide their erections at funerals, having no altar in
front of them to cover it.
Bob Dog
Atheist #153 = 1^3 + 5^3 + 3^3
EAC's chief cook and brainwasher
-----
"I always thought our house was haunted,
'Cause nobody said boo to me."
- John Hiatt
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
22 Oct 2005 09:53:46 AM |
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on 22 Oct 2005 in alt.atheism, dear sweet Robby Bobby
(footballbloke@yahoo.co.uk) made the light shine upon us with this:
A Seventh-day Adventist pastor warned yesterday that he will stop
officiating at funerals at his Hagley Park church if female mourners,
especially of young murder victims, continue to turn up in skimpy
dresses and the men smoke ganja and drink beer and other alcoholic
beverages on the premises.
Excellent! Let's take our business elsewhere.
"We are sorry that the day will come when we will not allow your
funeral at the church," the Rev Roy Gordon told the congregation
attending the funeral of two children - Paul Brown, six, and his sister
Sabrina Tulloch, three - who died in a fire at their Duhaney Park,
Kingston home a fortnight ago.
Why do these assholes insist on imposing their prissy morals on the rest
of us? They just can't get the idea through their murky minds that other
people *differ*, and that is not a bad thing. This kind of thinking is
responsible for much of the social unrest we see today.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Today's warm fuzzy example of Christian Love:
"1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he (JUDAH)drave out the
inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants
of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. IT WAS JUDAH YOU
DUMBFUCK.
Go back to masturbating to porn sites, you goddammned idiot."
-- Mikal 606
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| User: "Dale" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
22 Oct 2005 10:44:19 PM |
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"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96F750946F97Bvicman@127.0.0.1...
[...]
"We are sorry that the day will come when we will not allow your
funeral at the church," the Rev Roy Gordon told the congregation
attending the funeral of two children - Paul Brown, six, and his sister
Sabrina Tulloch, three - who died in a fire at their Duhaney Park,
Kingston home a fortnight ago.
Why do these assholes insist on imposing their prissy morals on the rest
of us? They just can't get the idea through their murky minds that other
people *differ*, and that is not a bad thing. This kind of thinking is
responsible for much of the social unrest we see today.
That's a two-edged sword, brother. What Rev. Gordon says or does is his
business and no one else's, except that he most likely feels a
responsibility towards his core clientele.
Also, I think you're not picturing the situation accurately. This is about
gangsters being killed in the line of business, and their funerals being
turned into parties by other gangsters.
http://caymannetnews.com/2005/09/928/jamaican/issue.shtml
"In Jamaica, there has been a problem with disorderly people coming to
church smoking cigarettes and drinking alcoholic beverages, not recognizing
that they are coming into the House of God."
The Union's recommendations came in response to a series of incidents
earlier this year at the Hagley Park Seventh-day Adventist Church in
Kingston. These incidents had involved the wearing of revealing outfits, the
smoking of marijuana, and selling of alcoholic drinks. There was also a
report of gunmen invading the grounds of a church, and shooting up several
cars.
The events had drawn public condemnation, and forced the union to convene a
committee, so that they could come up with a funeral policy to guide its
members.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
22 Oct 2005 01:11:30 PM |
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If you are a member of an organization then it is your responsibility
to comply with the rules set by it.
If they don't like it they can shop around for other religions to do
the funeral.
I say the preist is doing his Job, not to change the rules to suit the
audience but to express the standards set by his Church as directed by
God.
An athiest of course just sticks the body in a big garbage bag and
kicks it to the curb for colllection.
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| User: "David H." |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
22 Oct 2005 02:24:34 PM |
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<snip>
An athiest of course just sticks the body in a big garbage bag and
kicks it to the curb for colllection.
No, that would be wasteful.
We bury them under our shrubbery to make our yards look really really nice.
David H.
aa #2217
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
22 Oct 2005 02:22:18 PM |
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On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:24:34 GMT in alt.atheism, David H. ("David H."
<davidhaapala@sbcglobal.fart.not.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
<snip>
An athiest of course just sticks the body in a big garbage bag and
kicks it to the curb for colllection.
No, that would be wasteful.
We bury them under our shrubbery to make our yards look really really nice.
Apparently freeze drying is the next big thing!
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2086492005
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| User: "David H." |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
22 Oct 2005 05:08:58 PM |
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Therion Ware wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:24:34 GMT in alt.atheism, David H. ("David H."
<davidhaapala@sbcglobal.fart.not.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
<snip>
An athiest of course just sticks the body in a big garbage bag and
kicks it to the curb for colllection.
No, that would be wasteful.
We bury them under our shrubbery to make our yards look really
really nice.
Apparently freeze drying is the next big thing!
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2086492005
Well, I'll be...
Very sensible, those Swiss...
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
22 Oct 2005 08:30:27 PM |
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In article <1130004690.919802.40050
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, said...
If you are a member of an organization then it is your responsibility
to comply with the rules set by it.
Many of the mourners at a funeral are not members of the
organization.
It's regrettable (though hardly atypical) that a pastor of an
extremist sect would insist that his prudery matters more than
the grief of those who've lost someone close to them.
If they don't like it they can shop around for other
religions to do the funeral.
That's what Uncle Vic suggested.
I say the preist is doing his Job,
I say he's acting like a horse's *****. Some preachers are so used
to being surrounded by needy parishioners looking for spiritual
guidance, and they're so busy telling people how to live their
lives that they lose all sense of perspective and propriety.
They think their religious beliefs trump all other concerns and
contexts and circumstances.
not to change the rules to suit the audience but to express
the standards set by his Church
....no matter how much pain he brings to the friends and family
of the deceased.
"Changing the rules," meaning altering one's approach to the
situation and sublimating the urge to add arrogance to the
bereaved's grief by pushing sectarian trivialities at an utterly
inappropriate time -- this is what decent preachers do.
An athiest of course just sticks the body in a big garbage
bag and kicks it to the curb for colllection.
Why not plant the body in the garden, to feed next year's corn?
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
23 Oct 2005 10:46:25 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Brian E. Clark
(reply@newsgroup.only.please) made the light shine upon us with this:
In article <1130004690.919802.40050
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, said...
If you are a member of an organization then it is your responsibility
to comply with the rules set by it.
Many of the mourners at a funeral are not members of the
organization.
It's regrettable (though hardly atypical) that a pastor of an
extremist sect would insist that his prudery matters more than
the grief of those who've lost someone close to them.
Exactly! Imagine if his sect required nudism at all weddings and
funerals. How many would actually comply? How many would feel
discriminated against if told to leave for noncompliance with the dress
code?
If they don't like it they can shop around for other
religions to do the funeral.
That's what Uncle Vic suggested.
I say the preist is doing his Job,
I say he's acting like a horse's *****. Some preachers are so used
to being surrounded by needy parishioners looking for spiritual
guidance, and they're so busy telling people how to live their
lives that they lose all sense of perspective and propriety.
They think their religious beliefs trump all other concerns and
contexts and circumstances.
Another good point. Many of them, like this guy, have great dificulty
accepting the diversity of human society, labeling those that don't
conform with his idea of morality "amoral", which was the point of my
original post.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Today's warm fuzzy example of Christian Love:
"I told you many times that you should thank Christian Americans that
they gave you a free place to live in Texas and a welfare so you could
buy food to eat you fucking filthy Jew !!!! If America did not give you
billions of dollars every year your fucking Jewishstan could be a history
like it was for a thousand years. Shame on you, you fucking dirty, ugly
and barbaric Jew !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go to hell you shitted Jew." -- Andy
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
23 Oct 2005 11:09:55 AM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
It's regrettable (though hardly atypical) that a pastor of an
extremist sect would insist that his prudery matters more than
the grief of those who've lost someone close to them.
Exactly! Imagine if his sect required nudism at all weddings and
funerals. How many would actually comply? How many would feel
discriminated against if told to leave for noncompliance with the dress
code?
Imagine if society required _textilism_ at all weddings and funerals --
and everywhere else too.
How many would actually comply? Well, in practice, nearly everyone
would -- because those despicable _textiles_ arrest anyyone who doesn't
comply at the point of a gun, jail them, and put them on sex offender
lists for life.
How many would feel discriminated against if told to leave for
noncompliance with the dress code?
Oh, how nice it would be if that were the only penalty for nudism!
:-)
Jenny
(who thinks Uncle Vic ought to pick his comparisons with grteater care)
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
23 Oct 2005 05:06:00 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Jenny6833A
(Jenny6833A@aol.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
Uncle Vic wrote:
It's regrettable (though hardly atypical) that a pastor of an
extremist sect would insist that his prudery matters more than
the grief of those who've lost someone close to them.
Exactly! Imagine if his sect required nudism at all weddings and
funerals. How many would actually comply? How many would feel
discriminated against if told to leave for noncompliance with the
dress code?
Imagine if society required _textilism_ at all weddings and funerals
-- and everywhere else too.
How many would actually comply? Well, in practice, nearly everyone
would -- because those despicable _textiles_ arrest anyyone who
doesn't comply at the point of a gun, jail them, and put them on sex
offender lists for life.
How many would feel discriminated against if told to leave for
noncompliance with the dress code?
Oh, how nice it would be if that were the only penalty for nudism!
:-)
Jenny
(who thinks Uncle Vic ought to pick his comparisons with grteater
care)
Actually, I picked that one specifically because it was so far from what
most of society considers the norm. (I'm a nudist myself.)
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Today's warm fuzzy example of Christian Love:
"I told you many times that you should thank Christian Americans that
they gave you a free place to live in Texas and a welfare so you could
buy food to eat you fucking filthy Jew !!!! If America did not give you
billions of dollars every year your fucking Jewishstan could be a
history like it was for a thousand years. Shame on you, you fucking
dirty, ugly and barbaric Jew !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go to hell you shitted
Jew." -- Andy
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
23 Oct 2005 10:06:44 PM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Jenny6833A
(Jenny6833A@aol.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
Uncle Vic wrote:
It's regrettable (though hardly atypical) that a pastor of an
extremist sect would insist that his prudery matters more than
the grief of those who've lost someone close to them.
Exactly! Imagine if his sect required nudism at all weddings and
funerals. How many would actually comply? How many would feel
discriminated against if told to leave for noncompliance with the
dress code?
Imagine if society required _textilism_ at all weddings and funerals
-- and everywhere else too.
How many would actually comply? Well, in practice, nearly everyone
would -- because those despicable _textiles_ arrest anyyone who
doesn't comply at the point of a gun, jail them, and put them on sex
offender lists for life.
How many would feel discriminated against if told to leave for
noncompliance with the dress code?
Oh, how nice it would be if that were the only penalty for nudism!
:-)
Jenny
(who thinks Uncle Vic ought to pick his comparisons with grteater
care)
Actually, I picked that one specifically because it was so far from what
most of society considers the norm. (I'm a nudist myself.)
Why do you think there have to be norms? I mean, we ain't talking
about harming anyone.
--
Uncle Vic
:-)
Jenny
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
23 Oct 2005 10:13:23 PM |
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"Jenny6833A" <Jenny6833A@aol.com> wrote in news:1130123204.550985.90940
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Actually, I picked that one specifically because it was so far from what
most of society considers the norm. (I'm a nudist myself.)
Why do you think there have to be norms? I mean, we ain't talking
about harming anyone.
Think of the children!!!!!!! They might see nakid people and become gay
sex pervert rapists . . . or almost as bad, grow up to be healthy, happy,
well adjusted, comfortable with their own bodies and sexually fulfilled
human beings.
Now violence, that's cool. Let them chop limbs from virtual people for six
hours a day, and glory in the virtual gore.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented
myself from Christian assemblies.
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
24 Oct 2005 10:46:20 AM |
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on 23 Oct 2005 in alt.atheism, dear sweet Jenny6833A
(Jenny6833A@aol.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Jenny6833A
(Jenny6833A@aol.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
Uncle Vic wrote:
It's regrettable (though hardly atypical) that a pastor of an
extremist sect would insist that his prudery matters more than
the grief of those who've lost someone close to them.
Exactly! Imagine if his sect required nudism at all weddings and
funerals. How many would actually comply? How many would feel
discriminated against if told to leave for noncompliance with the
dress code?
Imagine if society required _textilism_ at all weddings and
funerals -- and everywhere else too.
How many would actually comply? Well, in practice, nearly
everyone would -- because those despicable _textiles_ arrest
anyyone who doesn't comply at the point of a gun, jail them, and
put them on sex offender lists for life.
How many would feel discriminated against if told to leave for
noncompliance with the dress code?
Oh, how nice it would be if that were the only penalty for nudism!
:-)
Jenny
(who thinks Uncle Vic ought to pick his comparisons with grteater
care)
Actually, I picked that one specifically because it was so far from
what most of society considers the norm. (I'm a nudist myself.)
Why do you think there have to be norms? I mean, we ain't talking
about harming anyone.
I don't. I hate dress codes. I'm a nonconformist to the max. I even
ride a motorcycle as my daily commuter (75 miles a day). What I said, and
it's the unfortunate truth, it's what "society considers the norm". There
are people out there who'd have heart attacks if they ever saw themselves
nude in the mirror, let alone someone harmlessly catching a few rays on
the beach. I know, it's nuts. And I believe Genesis is behind most of it
- you know, the part where A&E saw each other naked and had to cover up
immediately. Religion. Bah!
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Today's warm fuzzy example of Christian Love:
"I told you many times that you should thank Christian Americans that they
gave you a free place to live in Texas and a welfare so you could buy food
to eat you fucking filthy Jew !!!! If America did not give you billions of
dollars every year your fucking Jewishstan could be a history like it was
for a thousand years. Shame on you, you fucking dirty, ugly and barbaric
Jew !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go to hell you shitted Jew." -- Andy
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
24 Oct 2005 11:49:00 AM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Why do you think there have to be norms? I mean, we ain't talking
about harming anyone.
I don't. I hate dress codes. I'm a nonconformist to the max. I even
ride a motorcycle as my daily commuter (75 miles a day). What I said, and
it's the unfortunate truth, it's what "society considers the norm". There
are people out there who'd have heart attacks if they ever saw themselves
nude in the mirror, let alone someone harmlessly catching a few rays on
the beach. I know, it's nuts. And I believe Genesis is behind most of it
- you know, the part where A&E saw each other naked and had to cover up
immediately. Religion. Bah!
Genesis does say they made loin cloths, but never says they put them
on. And, in the next scene, the old bearded one asks Adam why they
hadn't responded when hollered at. Adam says, "Because we were naked."
That indicates that either 1) they NEVER wore the silly things, or 2)
they put them on briefly, found them unsuitable, and took them off
again.
Whatever the unknowable answer to that, A&E didn't even make, much less
wear, anything above the waist. Genesis thus supports gender-equal
upper body chest exposure.
Hey, it looks like we have the nucleus of an online club, including a
ULC minister to say grace at bare BBQs -- in the unlikely event that
such would be required.
<G>
Jenny
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
22 Oct 2005 09:12:00 PM |
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On 22 Oct 2005 11:11:30 -0700, wrote:
:
I say the preist is doing his Job,...
:
Is this some sort of hidden Biblical allusion to the priest's bad
luck?
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Skimpy morals and dress |
22 Oct 2005 04:30:46 PM |
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on 22 Oct 2005 in alt.atheism, dear sweet (marks542004@yahoo.com) made
the light shine upon us with this:
If you are a member of an organization then it is your responsibility
to comply with the rules set by it.
Agreed.
If they don't like it they can shop around for other religions to do
the funeral.
That's what I said.
I say the preist is doing his Job, not to change the rules to suit the
audience but to express the standards set by his Church as directed by
God.
Sure, but that's not all they do. By slandering people who don't agree
with their morality, they are causing nothing but trouble.
An athiest of course just sticks the body in a big garbage bag and
kicks it to the curb for colllection.
Non sequitur, ad-hominum. Why this last bit?
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Today's warm fuzzy example of Christian Love:
"I told you many times that you should thank Christian Americans that they
gave you a free place to live in Texas and a welfare so you could buy food
to eat you fucking filthy Jew !!!! If America did not give you billions of
dollars every year your fucking Jewishstan could be a history like it was
for a thousand years. Shame on you, you fucking dirty, ugly and barbaric
Jew !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go to hell you shitted Jew." -- Andy
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