"dgillesp" <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4204F0C9.3B40D3A2@nospam.net...

Josef Balluch wrote:

...

Assuming that to be so, do you think he had any choice in the

matter?

Absolutely, ...

How did you determine this to be an absolute, Denny? Is there an
underlying symmetry that serves as an explanation for this absolute?

He absolutely had the choice to set or not set the speed of light.

Unsupported assertion.

My point being
that he waived his prerogative to choose in favor of allowing creation to

evolve

within an intricate and supremely complex framework of order, chance, and

possible

insurgency against the Creator and creation itself.

Pure speculation.

What indication do you have that the speed of light was a matter of
choice?

I say the speed of light was a matter of choice only in that God chose not

to

determine how his creation was to evolve but always within certain

parameters that

would issue in the emergence of conscious, sentient beings (i.e., man)

intended to

serve as his priests and stewards (i.e., intermediaries) between the

Creator and

creation. Who knows, perhaps man will eventually populate much of the

universe.

You can start by demonstrating the existence of this deity of yours.

Are there any signs that some parameters of the universe require
supernatural intervention as an explanation?

So far as we know for certain, man is the only conscious, rational being

in the

universe. How does consciousness and rationality evolve from a totally
stone-dead, meaningless, and inanimate beginning?

Argument from Ignorance.

No stream rises any higher than
its source.

Reality is not a stream.

... but he prefers to work indirectly and behind the scenes, ...

Which is rather irrelevant to the question that was asked.

Just take it as an aside.

I take it as your inability to focus on the matter at hand.

... allowing his
creation to evolve within a framework of order, randomness and even

rebellion

against its Creator as is obvious in the human condition.

This is not at all evident from ANY consideration.

I repeat: How does consciousness and rationality evolve from a totally
stone-dead, meaningless, and inanimate origin? No stream rises any

higher than

its source.

I repeat: Argument from Ignorance.

The order and complexity in the universe can be explained by a process of
self organizing complexity.

http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm

Regards,

Josef

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 11:14:01 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
said in alt.atheism:

Josef Balluch wrote:

How did you determine this to be an absolute, Denny? Is there an
underlying symmetry that serves as an explanation for this absolute?

He absolutely had the choice to set or not set the speed of light.

IOW, you didn't, it's just bald assertion.

What indication do you have that the speed of light was a matter of
choice?

I say the speed of light was a matter of choice only in that God chose not to
determine how his creation was to evolve but always within certain parameters that
would issue in the emergence of conscious, sentient beings (i.e., man) intended to
serve as his priests and stewards (i.e., intermediaries) between the Creator and
creation.

IOW you have none at all.

Who knows

You sure don't.

Are there any signs that some parameters of the universe require
supernatural intervention as an explanation?

So far as we know for certain, man is the only conscious, rational being in the
universe. How does consciousness and rationality evolve from a totally
stone-dead, meaningless, and inanimate beginning?

"We don't yet know" and "goddidit" aren't the same thing.

No stream rises any higher than its source.

Not even true for water, and totally irrelevant.

... but he prefers to work indirectly and behind the scenes, ...

Which is rather irrelevant to the question that was asked.

Just take it as an aside.

It's more of a non sequitur than an aside.

... allowing his
creation to evolve within a framework of order, randomness and even rebellion
against its Creator as is obvious in the human condition.

This is not at all evident from ANY consideration.

I repeat: How does consciousness and rationality evolve from a totally
stone-dead, meaningless, and inanimate origin?

I repeat: be honest and say you don't know or make something up
that's not at all evident (or for which there's any real evidence).

"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its
side."

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