Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out, That Liberals Hate America.

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Ben M. Walker"
Date:	04 Apr 2004 08:35:35 PM
Object:	Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out, That Liberals Hate America.

Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out, That Liberals Hate America.
As the Democrats continue to hammer their "Bush lied, Bush lied"
theme, bit by bit the real story is coming out.
First we have this insistence on the part of Democrats that Bush told
the American people that Saddam Hussein was directly tied to the
terrorist attacks of 9/11. An editorial writer for the Cleveland
Plain Dealer made just such an assertion, and then was challenged by a
reader to back it up. The editorial writer took the challenge, did the
research, and then wrote a column in which he admitted that Bush had
never, in fact, made any such statement.
Democrats are also fond of saying that Bush's claims that there was a
connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda was a lie. Looks like the
democrats are going to have to eat some crow on that one too. A
recent issue of an independent Baghdad newspaper contains an interview
with a former Iraqi army officer who talked about the presence of Al
Qaeda terrorists in training camps in Iraq.
"They were a mixture of Arabs, Arabs from the Peninsula [Saudi
Arabia], Muslim Afghans, and other Muslims from various parts of the
world. They were divided into two groups, the first one went to
Al-Nahrawan and the second to Salman Pak, and this was the group that
was trained to hijack airplanes. The
training was under the direct supervision of major general (M. DH. L)
[only identified by initials] who now serves as a police commander in
one of the provinces. Upon the completion of the training most of them
left Iraq, while the others stayed in the country through the last
battle in Baghdad against the coalition forces.
"On April 5, 2003 orders were issued to send these individuals to the
battle front immediately. About 100 of them were sent to the 11th
company division in Nasiriya. And for the sake of history I will say
that this
division's endurance was due to some formidable fighters, the
commanding officer and members of Al-Qa'ida who fought with intensity
and brutality that are seldom matched, while they were praising
Allah."
This report will be largely ignored by Democrats. They don't want the
truth to get in the way of their lie or their drive to return to their
rightful position of power in Washington.
Boortz.com, nailing them as usual!
--
"Liberals hate America, they hate 'flag-wavers', they hate abortion
opponents, they hate all religions except Islam (post 9/11). Even
terrorists don't hate America like liberals do." - Ann Coulter
.

User: "J Lee, Director of Operations"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out, That Liberals Hate America.	16 Apr 2004 09:15:20 PM

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Day 18:
The forces of truth, justice, and the American way have retaken WNTD in =
Chicago. Los Angeles remains in play as Air America Radio prepares to =
take further action against Arthur Liu in the New York State courts.
Reports from sources who can still tolerate the lies on broadcast TV =
indicate that Air America Radio has had such an influence on some of the =
correspondents at the Public Broadcasting System that they have =
miraculously grow a set of testicles.
Pat Buchanon claimed on the Randi Rhodes Show that George W. Bush and =
the neocons are Trotskyites.
Revenues and penetration are currently ahead of projections.
Active and named future stations have grown to 15 and now extend from =
Portland, Maine, to Portland, Oregon. Satellite outlets now stand at 2. =
Streaming audio outlets now stand at 4. That's more than one added =
outlet per day.=20
Stay tuned.
Radio Outlets
Portland, Maine=E2=80=95WMTW 870 AM=E2=80=95Coming soon =20
Plattsburgh, New York/Burlington, Vermont=E2=80=95WTWK 1070 AM
New York City=E2=80=95WLIB 1190 AM
Chapel Hill, North Carolina=E2=80=95WCHL 1360 AM=E2=80=95Coming April 19
West Palm Beach, Florida (Randy Rhodes only, 3:00-6:50PM EDT, =
19:00-22:50UTC)=E2=80=95WJNO 1290 AM
Key West and the Caribbean=E2=80=95WKIZ 1500 AM (until 7:00PM EDT, =
23:00UTC)
Chicago=E2=80=95WNTD 950 AM
Minneapolis, Minnesota (Al Franken only, 11:00AM-2:00PM =
CDT)=E2=80=95WMNN 1330 AM
Colorado Springs, Colorado=E2=80=95KBZC 1300 AM=E2=80=95Coming soon
Portland, Oregon=E2=80=95KPOJ 620 AM
Sacramento, California=E2=80=95KSQR 1240 AM=E2=80=95Coming soon
San Francisco/Berkeley/Oakland=E2=80=95KVTO 1400 AM=E2=80=95Coming in =
April
San Jose/Santa Clara/Santa Cruz, California=E2=80=95KVVN 1430 =
AM=E2=80=95Coming in April
Los Angeles=E2=80=95KBLA 1580 AM (temporarily off the air)
San Bernardino/Loma Linda, California (Al Franken only, 3:00-6:00PM =
PDT=E2=80=95KCAA 1050 AM
Satellite Outlets
XM Radio=E2=80=95Channel 167
Sirius Satellite Radio=E2=80=95Within the week
Internet
Real Audio=E2=80=95WLIB, WKIZ (iTunes Stream)
Windows Media=E2=80=95KPOJ, WJNO (Randi Rhodes only)=20
Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot.
------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C42400.4E67C540
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charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>
<DIV>Day 18:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The forces of truth, justice, and the =
American way=20
have retaken WNTD in Chicago. Los Angeles remains in play as Air America =
Radio=20
prepares to take further action against Arthur Liu in the New York State =
courts.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Reports from sources who can=20
still tolerate the lies on broadcast TV indicate that Air America =
Radio has=20
had such an influence on some of the correspondents at the Public =
Broadcasting=20
System that they have miraculously grow a set of testicles.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pat Buchanon claimed on the Randi =
Rhodes Show that=20
George W. Bush and the neocons are Trotskyites.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Revenues and penetration are currently =
ahead of=20
projections.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Active and named future stations =
have grown to=20
15 and now extend from Portland, Maine, to Portland, Oregon. Satellite =
outlets=20
now stand at 2. Streaming audio outlets now stand at 4. That's more than =
one=20
added outlet per day. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Stay tuned.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
 
Radio Outlets
 
Portland, =
Maine=E2=80=95WMTW 870 AM=E2=80=95Coming=20
soon   
Plattsburgh, New =
York/Burlington,=20
Vermont=E2=80=95WTWK 1070 AM
New York =
City=E2=80=95<A=20
href=3D"http://www.airamericaradio.com/">WLIB</A> 1190 AM
Chapel Hill, North =
Carolina=E2=80=95WCHL 1360=20
AM=E2=80=95Coming April 19
West Palm Beach, Florida =
(Randy Rhodes=20
only, 3:00-6:50PM EDT, 19:00-22:50UTC)=E2=80=95<A=20
href=3D"http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/streaming.html">WJNO</A> 1290 AM
Key West and the =
Caribbean=E2=80=95<A=20
href=3D"http://www.wkizradio.com/">WKIZ</A><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> 1500 AM (until 7:00PM EDT, 23:00UTC)
Chicago=E2=80=95WNTD 950 =
AM
Minneapolis, Minnesota (Al =
Franken only,=20
11:00AM-2:00PM CDT)=E2=80=95WMNN 1330 AM
Colorado Springs, =
Colorado=E2=80=95KBZC 1300=20
AM=E2=80=95Coming soon
Portland, =
Oregon=E2=80=95<A=20
href=3D"http://www.620knews.com/program/index.php">KPOJ</A> 620 AM
Sacramento, =
California=E2=80=95KSQR 1240=20
AM=E2=80=95Coming soon
San =
Francisco/Berkeley/Oakland=E2=80=95KVTO 1400=20
AM=E2=80=95Coming in April
San Jose/Santa Clara/Santa =
Cruz,=20
California=E2=80=95KVVN 1430 AM=E2=80=95Coming in April
Los Angeles=E2=80=95KBLA =
1580 AM (<A=20
href=3D"http://www.majorityreportradio.com/weblog/">temporarily off the air</A>)
San Bernardino/Loma Linda, =
California=20
(Al Franken only, 3:00-6:00PM PDT=E2=80=95KCAA 1050 AM
 
 
Satellite =
Outlets
 
<A href=3D"http://www.xmradio.com/">XM=20
Radio</A>=E2=80=95Channel =
167
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.siriusradio.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=3DSiriu=
s/CachedPage&c=3DPage&cid=3D1065475754112"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Sirius</A> =
Satellite=20
Radio=E2=80=95Within the week
 
 
Internet
 
Real =
Audio=E2=80=95<A=20
href=3D"http://www.airamericaradio.com/www/pub/globalDefault.htm">WLIB</A>, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.wkizradio.com/">WKIZ</A><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> (iTunes Stream)
Windows =
Media=E2=80=95<A=20
href=3D"http://www.620knews.com/listen/index.php">KPOJ</A>, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/streaming.html">WJNO</A> (Randi Rhodes only) =

 
 
Somewhere in Texas a =
village is missing=20
its idiot.</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C42400.4E67C540--
.

User: "Transition Zone"
Title: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	20 Apr 2004 03:23:36 PM

NORAD had drills of jets as weapons Mon Apr 19, 6:47 AM ET
By Steven Komarow and Tom Squitieri, USA TODAY
In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American
Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the
White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used
as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.
In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon - but that drill was
not run after Defense officials said it was unrealistic, NORAD and
Defense officials say.
NORAD, in a written statement, confirmed that such hijacking exercises
occurred. It said the scenarios outlined were regional drills, not
regularly scheduled continent-wide exercises.
"Numerous types of civilian and military aircraft were used as mock
hijacked aircraft," the statement said. "These exercises tested track
detection and identification; scramble and interception; hijack
procedures; internal and external agency coordination and operational
security and communications security procedures."
A White House spokesman said Sunday that the Bush administration was
not aware of the NORAD exercises. But the exercises using real
aircraft show that at least one part of the government thought the
possibility of such attacks, though unlikely, merited scrutiny.
On April 8, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks heard
testimony from national security adviser Condoleezza Rice that the
White House didn't anticipate hijacked planes being used as weapons.
On April 12, a watchdog group, the Project on Government Oversight,
released a copy of an e-mail written by a former NORAD official
referring to the proposed exercise targeting the Pentagon. The e-mail
said the simulation was not held because the Pentagon considered it
"too unrealistic."
President Bush said at a news conference Tuesday, "Nobody in our
government, at least, and I don't think the prior government, could
envision flying airplanes into buildings on such a massive scale."
The exercises differed from the Sept. 11 attacks in one important
respect: The planes in the simulation were coming from a foreign
country.
Until Sept. 11, NORAD was expected to defend the United States and
Canada from aircraft based elsewhere. After the attacks, that
responsibility broadened to include flights that originated in the two
countries.
But there were exceptions in the early drills, including one
operation, planned in July 2001 and conducted later, that involved
planes from airports in Utah and Washington state that were
"hijacked." Those planes were escorted by U.S. and Canadian aircraft
to airfields in British Columbia and Alaska.
NORAD officials have acknowledged that "scriptwriters" for the drills
included the idea of hijacked aircraft being used as weapons.
"Threats of killing hostages or crashing were left to the
scriptwriters to invoke creativity and broaden the required response,"
Maj. Gen. Craig McKinley, a NORAD official, told the 9/11 commission.
No exercise matched the specific events of Sept. 11, NORAD said.
"We have planned and executed numerous scenarios over the years to
include aircraft originating from foreign airports penetrating our
sovereign airspace," Gen. Ralph Eberhart, NORAD commander, told USA
TODAY. "Regrettably, the tragic events of 9/11 were never anticipated
or exercised."
NORAD, a U.S.-Canadian command, was created in 1958 to guard against
Soviet bombers.
Until Sept. 11, 2001, NORAD conducted four major exercises a year.
Most included a hijack scenario, but not all of those involved planes
as weapons. Since the attacks, NORAD has conducted more than 100
exercises, all with mock hijackings.
NORAD fighters based in Florida have intercepted two hijacked smaller
aircraft since Sept. 11. Both originated in Cuba and were escorted to
Key West in spring 2003, NORAD said.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20040419/ts_usatoday/noradhaddrillsofjetsasweapons

Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	20 Apr 2004 04:17:00 PM

(Transition Zone) wrote in
news:3f224cda.0404201223.490a4f15@posting.google.com:

<...>
All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no specific,
actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "JTEM"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	20 Apr 2004 11:47:16 PM

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

All of which adds up to nothing,

Translation: "YOU CAN'T PROVE A THING!"

since there was still no specific, actionable warning

Gee, "Fred," most of us don't have any trouble imagining
"They're gonna try and hijack planes" as actionable.
Seriously.
The choke point was the airports. You want to hijack
civilian airliners? You need to be at the airport.
There. Right there. We had a filter, a choke point through
which all potential terrorist had to pass.
But, instead, it was Bush who choked.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 07:28:31 AM

"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:f8ednTQ0SIdaZhjd4p2dnA@comcast.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

All of which adds up to nothing,

Translation: "YOU CAN'T PROVE A THING!"

since there was still no specific, actionable warning

Gee, "Fred," most of us don't have any trouble imagining
"They're gonna try and hijack planes" as actionable.

Seriously.

The choke point was the airports. You want to hijack
civilian airliners? You need to be at the airport.

There. Right there. We had a filter, a choke point through
which all potential terrorist had to pass.

So, let's profile young arab males, right?

But, instead, it was Bush who choked.

We know who to blame for 9/11: al Queda.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "JTEM"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 11:00:18 PM

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

So, let's profile young arab males, right?

*****.
.

User: "pkgojak"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 09:52:59 AM

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D25637AE49Cfstone69@207.69.154.204...

"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:f8ednTQ0SIdaZhjd4p2dnA@comcast.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

All of which adds up to nothing,

Translation: "YOU CAN'T PROVE A THING!"

since there was still no specific, actionable warning

Gee, "Fred," most of us don't have any trouble imagining
"They're gonna try and hijack planes" as actionable.

Seriously.

The choke point was the airports. You want to hijack
civilian airliners? You need to be at the airport.

There. Right there. We had a filter, a choke point through
which all potential terrorist had to pass.

So, let's profile young arab males, right?

But, instead, it was Bush who choked.

We know who to blame for 9/11: al Queda.

Of course. But it happened on Bush's watch and there were some good
warnings. It happened Fred. It happened on his watch. You want to give
him a pass? .....Go ahead...you've got plenty of company and you can always
console yourself with the thought that thousands of Iraqis got the pay
back....never mind that they had nothing to do with it.

--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?

User: "pkgojak"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 09:50:28 AM

"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f8ednTQ0SIdaZhjd4p2dnA@comcast.com...

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

All of which adds up to nothing,

Translation: "YOU CAN'T PROVE A THING!"

since there was still no specific, actionable warning

Gee, "Fred," most of us don't have any trouble imagining
"They're gonna try and hijack planes" as actionable.

Seriously.

The choke point was the airports. You want to hijack
civilian airliners? You need to be at the airport.

There. Right there. We had a filter, a choke point through
which all potential terrorist had to pass.

But, instead, it was Bush who choked.

Bush didn't choke on his eggs out at Crawford. Rice takes most of the
blame with her "nobody told me that I should do anything" testimony that
everybody seems to think she did so well at.

User: "Jungle Jim"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	20 Apr 2004 08:50:09 PM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no specific,
actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to believe
that Bush actually read any of the information he was given on paper.
The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"
I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could have
someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the hijackers.
Jungle Jim
.

User: "JTEM"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	20 Apr 2004 11:52:05 PM

"Jungle Jim" <zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net> wrote

In addition there is no information that would lead
anyone to believe that Bush actually read any of
the information he was given on paper.

As a matter of fact, they said that. The administration. The
claim they themselves made was that Bush doesn't actually
read his intelligence reports.
Or newspapers.
.

User: "pkgojak"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 09:49:01 AM

"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:w8OdnTeCj_l6YRjdRVn-uQ@comcast.com...

"Jungle Jim" <zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net> wrote

In addition there is no information that would lead
anyone to believe that Bush actually read any of
the information he was given on paper.

As a matter of fact, they said that. The administration. The
claim they themselves made was that Bush doesn't actually
read his intelligence reports.

Or newspapers.

That he doesn't read the media explains how he feels so righteous.

User: "Mark Richardson"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 01:23:20 AM

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:52:05 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"Jungle Jim" <zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net> wrote

In addition there is no information that would lead
anyone to believe that Bush actually read any of
the information he was given on paper.

As a matter of fact, they said that. The administration. The
claim they themselves made was that Bush doesn't actually
read his intelligence reports.

Or newspapers.

Comic books?
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
"My name is Mark I am a recovering Skeptic
(AKA Muddy Boggs, AKA Donald R. Alford AKA ...)
debater. It is 028 days since I last tried to argue
with him."
You too can quit! Take the pledge!
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 01:31:19 AM

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:23:20 GMT, Mark Richardson
<mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:52:05 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"Jungle Jim" <zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net> wrote

In addition there is no information that would lead
anyone to believe that Bush actually read any of
the information he was given on paper.

As a matter of fact, they said that. The administration. The
claim they themselves made was that Bush doesn't actually
read his intelligence reports.

Or newspapers.

Comic books?

Bush reads the comic book version of the Bible.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	20 Apr 2004 09:37:03 PM

(Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no specific,
actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to believe
that Bush actually read any of the information he was given on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could have
someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information that we
know they had before 9/11?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Achan Back"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 05:00:45 AM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94D1E6186583Ffstone69@207.69.154.201>...

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no specific,
actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to believe
that Bush actually read any of the information he was given on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could have
someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information that we
know they had before 9/11?

I am taking your question to mean, "what could have been done
in the months before 911". FOR STARTERS I would have alerted
pilots. Commercial pilots are *TRAINED* how to react when
there is a hijacking. They were taught to be passive and
allow the negotiators/swat teams to handle the hijackers
ON THE GROUND. This was a fatal mistake given the new reality.
But NOTHING was done. The pilots on 911, IN IGNORANCE,
did what they were TRAINED to do.
AG
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 07:26:52 AM

(Achan Back) wrote in
news:34e7320a.0404210200.1e033160@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns94D1E6186583Ffstone69@207.69.154.201>...

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no
specific, actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to
believe that Bush actually read any of the information he was given
on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could
have someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the
hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information
that we know they had before 9/11?

I am taking your question to mean, "what could have been done
in the months before 911". FOR STARTERS I would have alerted
pilots. Commercial pilots are *TRAINED* how to react when
there is a hijacking. They were taught to be passive and
allow the negotiators/swat teams to handle the hijackers
ON THE GROUND. This was a fatal mistake given the new reality.

But NOTHING was done. The pilots on 911, IN IGNORANCE,
did what they were TRAINED to do.

What should they have been TRAINED to do? Lock the cabin doors which
couldn't be locked? Resist the terrorists with the guns they weren't
allowed to carry?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "pkgojak"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 09:47:56 AM

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D255F04798Dfstone69@207.69.154.204...

Achan_Back@hotmail.com (Achan Back) wrote in
news:34e7320a.0404210200.1e033160@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns94D1E6186583Ffstone69@207.69.154.201>...

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no
specific, actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to
believe that Bush actually read any of the information he was given
on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could
have someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the
hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information
that we know they had before 9/11?

I am taking your question to mean, "what could have been done
in the months before 911". FOR STARTERS I would have alerted
pilots. Commercial pilots are *TRAINED* how to react when
there is a hijacking. They were taught to be passive and
allow the negotiators/swat teams to handle the hijackers
ON THE GROUND. This was a fatal mistake given the new reality.

But NOTHING was done. The pilots on 911, IN IGNORANCE,
did what they were TRAINED to do.

What should they have been TRAINED to do? Lock the cabin doors which
couldn't be locked? Resist the terrorists with the guns they weren't
allowed to carry?

Telling the chief of the FAA would have been a courteous thing to do.
Perhaps rethinking the month long vacation would have to keep an eye on thin
gs might have been a good idea. If it were up to me, Presidents wouldn't
get vacations except working ones to Camp David. There are lots of other
things that could have been done considering the chatter "very very very
very significant thing about to happen"....turns out the intel wasn't all
bad now was it?

--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 10:33:38 AM

"pkgojak" <pkgojak@mydeja.com> wrote in
news:408689b5_3@news.athenanews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D255F04798Dfstone69@207.69.154.204...

Achan_Back@hotmail.com (Achan Back) wrote in
news:34e7320a.0404210200.1e033160@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns94D1E6186583Ffstone69@207.69.154.201>...

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no
specific, actionable warning of the plot that took place on
9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to
believe that Bush actually read any of the information he was
given on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could
have someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the
hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information
that we know they had before 9/11?

I am taking your question to mean, "what could have been done
in the months before 911". FOR STARTERS I would have alerted
pilots. Commercial pilots are *TRAINED* how to react when
there is a hijacking. They were taught to be passive and
allow the negotiators/swat teams to handle the hijackers
ON THE GROUND. This was a fatal mistake given the new reality.

But NOTHING was done. The pilots on 911, IN IGNORANCE,
did what they were TRAINED to do.

What should they have been TRAINED to do? Lock the cabin doors which
couldn't be locked? Resist the terrorists with the guns they weren't
allowed to carry?

Telling the chief of the FAA would have been a courteous thing to do.

Still wouldn't have done anything. The FAA's own regulations would have
had to be changed, not something they could do between 8/8 and 9/11.

Perhaps rethinking the month long vacation would have to keep an eye
on thin gs might have been a good idea.

You seem to have some mistaken idea that having the President "keep an
eye on things" would have magically made all the pieces of the puzzle
fall into place. Nobody had all the pieces until *after* the fact. "The
government" had them all but that's spread out over a dozen bureaus,
mixed in with literally *millions* of other bits.

If it were up to me,
Presidents wouldn't get vacations except working ones to Camp David.

That's the only kind of vacation a President can take. He wasn't out of
touch somewhere.

There are lots of other things that could have been done considering
the chatter "very very very very significant thing about to
happen"....turns out the intel wasn't all bad now was it?

It wasn't that the intel was all bad, it just wasn't all put together,
and there wasn't anything specific enough to key in on. You have to
remember that there were *thousands* of reports of possible plots, of
all different sorts during that time frame - the "threat spike". Picking
out the ones that were critical to act on is only possible in hindsight.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Achan Back"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 06:29:47 PM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94D2759B499A8fstone69@207.69.154.201>...

"pkgojak" <pkgojak@mydeja.com> wrote in
news:408689b5_3@news.athenanews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D255F04798Dfstone69@207.69.154.204...

Achan_Back@hotmail.com (Achan Back) wrote in
news:34e7320a.0404210200.1e033160@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns94D1E6186583Ffstone69@207.69.154.201>...

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no
specific, actionable warning of the plot that took place on
9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to
believe that Bush actually read any of the information he was
given on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could
have someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the
hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information
that we know they had before 9/11?

I am taking your question to mean, "what could have been done
in the months before 911". FOR STARTERS I would have alerted
pilots. Commercial pilots are *TRAINED* how to react when
there is a hijacking. They were taught to be passive and
allow the negotiators/swat teams to handle the hijackers
ON THE GROUND. This was a fatal mistake given the new reality.

But NOTHING was done. The pilots on 911, IN IGNORANCE,
did what they were TRAINED to do.

What should they have been TRAINED to do? Lock the cabin doors which
couldn't be locked? Resist the terrorists with the guns they weren't
allowed to carry?

Telling the chief of the FAA would have been a courteous thing to do.

Still wouldn't have done anything. The FAA's own regulations would have
had to be changed, not something they could do between 8/8 and 9/11.

(happened again, something is causing PC to xmit before I've
finished typing)
You've changed the question. Bush became prez in January not August.
And if you want to use August why 8/8, was it not an 8/6 document
you had in mind?
Found this through a quick Google search:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/sept_11/faa_001.htm
"
Concurrent with the rule, the FAA is also issuing a Special Federal
Aviation Regulation (SFAR) to require operators to install temporary
internal locking devices within 45 days on all passenger airplanes and
cargo airplanes that have cockpit doors. Beginning on Oct. 17, the FAA
issued a series of SFARs that authorized short-term door reinforcement
by providing airlines and cargo operators with temporary relief from
certain FAA standards. The major U.S. airlines voluntarily installed
short-term fixes to doors on 4,000 aircraft in 32 days. The SFAR
stated that a long-term fix that meets FAA requirements must be
installed within 18 months."
AG

Perhaps rethinking the month long vacation would have to keep an eye
on thin gs might have been a good idea.

If it were up to me,
Presidents wouldn't get vacations except working ones to Camp David.

That's the only kind of vacation a President can take. He wasn't out of
touch somewhere.

There are lots of other things that could have been done considering
the chatter "very very very very significant thing about to
happen"....turns out the intel wasn't all bad now was it?

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 07:45:36 PM

(Achan Back) wrote in
news:34e7320a.0404211529.64b370fd@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns94D2759B499A8fstone69@207.69.154.201>...

"pkgojak" <pkgojak@mydeja.com> wrote in
news:408689b5_3@news.athenanews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D255F04798Dfstone69@207.69.154.204...

(Achan Back) wrote in
news:34e7320a.0404210200.1e033160@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns94D1E6186583Ffstone69@207.69.154.201>...

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no
specific, actionable warning of the plot that took place on
9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to
believe that Bush actually read any of the information he was
given on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he
could have someone meet the planes when they landed and
arrest the hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the
information that we know they had before 9/11?

I am taking your question to mean, "what could have been done
in the months before 911". FOR STARTERS I would have alerted
pilots. Commercial pilots are *TRAINED* how to react when
there is a hijacking. They were taught to be passive and
allow the negotiators/swat teams to handle the hijackers
ON THE GROUND. This was a fatal mistake given the new reality.

But NOTHING was done. The pilots on 911, IN IGNORANCE,
did what they were TRAINED to do.

What should they have been TRAINED to do? Lock the cabin doors
which couldn't be locked? Resist the terrorists with the guns they
weren't allowed to carry?

Telling the chief of the FAA would have been a courteous thing to
do.

Still wouldn't have done anything. The FAA's own regulations would
have had to be changed, not something they could do between 8/8 and
9/11.

Yes, it was 8/6 that the President received that "warning".

Found this through a quick Google search:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/sept_11/faa_001.htm
"
Concurrent with the rule, the FAA is also issuing a Special Federal
Aviation Regulation (SFAR) to require operators to install temporary
internal locking devices within 45 days on all passenger airplanes and
cargo airplanes that have cockpit doors. Beginning on Oct. 17, the FAA
issued a series of SFARs that authorized short-term door reinforcement
by providing airlines and cargo operators with temporary relief from
certain FAA standards. The major U.S. airlines voluntarily installed
short-term fixes to doors on 4,000 aircraft in 32 days. The SFAR
stated that a long-term fix that meets FAA requirements must be
installed within 18 months."

32 days, huh? How much resistance would the proposed regulation have
gotten pre-9/11?

Perhaps rethinking the month long vacation would have to keep an
eye on thin gs might have been a good idea.

You seem to have some mistaken idea that having the President "keep
an eye on things" would have magically made all the pieces of the
puzzle fall into place. Nobody had all the pieces until *after* the
fact. "The government" had them all but that's spread out over a
dozen bureaus, mixed in with literally *millions* of other bits.

If it were up to me,
Presidents wouldn't get vacations except working ones to Camp
David.

That's the only kind of vacation a President can take. He wasn't out
of touch somewhere.

There are lots of other things that could have been done
considering the chatter "very very very very significant thing
about to happen"....turns out the intel wasn't all bad now was it?

It wasn't that the intel was all bad, it just wasn't all put
together, and there wasn't anything specific enough to key in on. You
have to remember that there were *thousands* of reports of possible
plots, of all different sorts during that time frame - the "threat
spike". Picking out the ones that were critical to act on is only
possible in hindsight.

--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Achan Back"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 06:22:06 PM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94D2759B499A8fstone69@207.69.154.201>...

"pkgojak" <pkgojak@mydeja.com> wrote in
news:408689b5_3@news.athenanews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D255F04798Dfstone69@207.69.154.204...

Achan_Back@hotmail.com (Achan Back) wrote in
news:34e7320a.0404210200.1e033160@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns94D1E6186583Ffstone69@207.69.154.201>...

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no
specific, actionable warning of the plot that took place on
9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to
believe that Bush actually read any of the information he was
given on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could
have someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the
hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information
that we know they had before 9/11?

I am taking your question to mean, "what could have been done
in the months before 911". FOR STARTERS I would have alerted
pilots. Commercial pilots are *TRAINED* how to react when
there is a hijacking. They were taught to be passive and
allow the negotiators/swat teams to handle the hijackers
ON THE GROUND. This was a fatal mistake given the new reality.

But NOTHING was done. The pilots on 911, IN IGNORANCE,
did what they were TRAINED to do.

What should they have been TRAINED to do? Lock the cabin doors which
couldn't be locked? Resist the terrorists with the guns they weren't
allowed to carry?

Telling the chief of the FAA would have been a courteous thing to do.

Still wouldn't have done anything. The FAA's own regulations would have
had to be changed, not something they could do between 8/8 and 9/11.

You changed the question. Bush became prez in January not August.
And if you want to use August why 8/8? It was an 8/6 prez fact
sheet, was it not?
Found this quickly thru Google:

Perhaps rethinking the month long vacation would have to keep an eye
on thin gs might have been a good idea.

If it were up to me,
Presidents wouldn't get vacations except working ones to Camp David.

That's the only kind of vacation a President can take. He wasn't out of
touch somewhere.

There are lots of other things that could have been done considering
the chatter "very very very very significant thing about to
happen"....turns out the intel wasn't all bad now was it?

User: "James Young"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 07:34:40 AM

(Achan Back) wrote:

It's a double edged sword. Check out how many highjackings have been
attempted since commercial air travel became a reality. Check out in
how many of them staying cool and negotiating have ended up with the
plane being landed somewhere and the highjackers surrendering. It's
hard to judge all the what ifs of course but the "old" method worked
pretty well up until 9/11, I would say.

But NOTHING was done. The pilots on 911, IN IGNORANCE,
did what they were TRAINED to do.

Hindsight is 20/20.
.

User: "Transition Zone"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 03:31:46 AM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94D1E6186583Ffstone69@207.69.154.201>...

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no specific,
actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to believe
that Bush actually read any of the information he was given on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could have
someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information that we
know they had before 9/11?

Precisely what Clinton did. Examine the possibility.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 07:24:46 AM

(Transition Zone) wrote in
news:3f224cda.0404210031.69b2652c@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns94D1E6186583Ffstone69@207.69.154.201>...

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no
specific, actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to
believe that Bush actually read any of the information he was given
on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could
have someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the
hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information
that we know they had before 9/11?

Precisely what Clinton did. Examine the possibility.

Yeah, that would have stopped it.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: ""
Title: Jesus told The Stupid Son of a Bush to let 911 happen	21 Apr 2004 01:30:02 AM

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:37:03 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no specific,
actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to believe
that Bush actually read any of the information he was given on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could have
someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information that we
know they had before 9/11?

Amazing. We have a president who is expected to do absolutely nothing
to stop a terrorist attack against the US just because he's a stupid
son of a Bush. And our intel is not expected to be able to anticipate
an attack from the air. Gosh, I guess firemen can't anticipate
fires, so let them arrive after it's burned down. Since most CEOs are
Republicans who loot their corporations and drive them into bankruptcy
and screw the investor, that explains their habitual "incompetence"
that leaves millions in their pockets. Oopsie. American goes to hell
under Republicans. Like Nixon explained, "I am not a crook." Right.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Jesus told The Stupid Son of a Bush to let 911 happen	21 Apr 2004 07:24:14 AM

wrote in
news:gp4c8050cgjrf73leied1gtsgfntthcgk4@4ax.com:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:37:03 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:

zjunglejim@sbcglobal.net (Jungle Jim) wrote in
news:56c2013d.0404201750.119e509f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:

All of which adds up to nothing, since there was still no specific,
actionable warning of the plot that took place on 9/11.

In addition there is no information that would lead anyone to
believe that Bush actually read any of the information he was given
on paper.

The last full page he read was "The Cat in the Hat"

I guess the Bush was waiting for the flight numbers so he could have
someone meet the planes when they landed and arrest the hijackers.

So tell me, what would *you* have done, given all the information that
we know they had before 9/11?

I repeat, what was he supposed to do, given the information in the memo?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "James Young"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	20 Apr 2004 06:52:28 PM

(Transition Zone) wrote:

On April 12, a watchdog group, the Project on Government Oversight,
released a copy of an e-mail written by a former NORAD official
referring to the proposed exercise targeting the Pentagon. The e-mail
said the simulation was not held because the Pentagon considered it
"too unrealistic."

It might provide some perspective if we were told how many simulations
are proposed per year and how many of them that are deemed too
unrealistic, which in turn don't happen. With limited time and
resources, every eventuality doesn't receive equal treatment. Just as
Dubya didn't have a priori evidence for WMD in Iraq, he didn't have a
priori evidence of planes possibly crashing into WMD. He didn't act on
one (correctly) and acted on the other (erroneously). It's both sad
and funny that those who claim that his failure to find WMD in Iraq
illegitimizes the war (No! What illegitimizes the war is the lack of
his *a priori* evidence, regardless of eventual outcome of the WMD
search) are the same idiots who claim he should have magically
foreseen one scenario among thousands.
.

User: "Transition Zone"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	21 Apr 2004 03:34:40 AM

James Young <jpyoung2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<h1hb80t39c2had2nko7rlrs45p9559g06f@4ax.com>...

mogulah@hotmail.com (Transition Zone) wrote:

OK. What is "priori" then ??
The Clinton White House signs spending authorization for NORAD to
examine air hijack attacks and then the Bushies claim they new nothing
about it after not being prepared. You do the math.
.

User: "James Young"
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	20 Apr 2004 08:56:14 PM

James Young <jpyoung2000@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dubya didn't have a priori evidence for WMD in Iraq, he didn't have a
priori evidence of planes possibly crashing into WMD

WTC was meant, obviously.
.

User: "Kate "
Title: Re: Slowly But Surely The Truth Comes Out (Bush knew)	20 Apr 2004 10:01:13 PM

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:52:28 GMT, James Young
<jpyoung2000@hotmail.com> wrote:

mogulah@hotmail.com (Transition Zone) wrote:

Nobody was claiming his failure made the war illegitimate. It was a
sign that he had made a serious mistake and that he was incompetant.
If he would have demonstrated a good reason to believe that there was
weapons, people would not have been angry, but he didn't and didn't
seem to feel the need, which made people even angrier.
Obviously the big problem with his lack of foresight was that there
too, he doesn't seem to feel the need to come up with a legitimate
response to the many many warnings and concerns that were attempted to
be conveyed to him about the bubbling situation. There were lots of
warnings - Clinton was extremely concerned. Bush's administration
reacted to that as - if Clinton thought it was important, we can't,
and they didn't. Bush couldn't think of a single mistake he made. The
incompetance was horrifying. Excuse after excuse was offered - all
the excuses of immature people who don't understand that
responsibility is in pro-activitism - a minimum requirement of the
person in a position such as the president of the United States.
It is sad indeed that so many people don't seem to understand the
simple responsibility being of a leader. You don't get told how to do
the job and what to do next. You go out and find out and do it.
George hides from it and whines that no one told him that this stuff
was important. So does Condi. It's embarassing to have these people
in charge.
.

Page 1 of 2

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