Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Yang, AthD h.c"
Date:	18 Aug 2004 10:46:07 PM
Object:	Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most
vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate
of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own
version of events.
In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who
commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly
disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came
under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March
13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.
But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released
yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act,
contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons
fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won
his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for
providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets
flying about him."
....
I never heard a shot," Thurlow said in his affidavit, which was
released by Swift Boats Veterans for Truth. The group claims the
backing of more than 250 Vietnam veterans, including a majority of
Kerry's fellow boat commanders.
A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his
actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG
THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the
disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units
in the flotilla also came under fire.
....
Thurlow and other anti-Kerry veterans have repeatedly alleged that
Kerry was the author of an after-action report that described how his
boat came under enemy fire. Kerry campaign researchers dispute that
assertion, and there is no convincing documentary evidence to settle
the argument. As the senior skipper in the flotilla, Thurlow might
have been expected to write the after-action report for March 13, but
he said that Kerry routinely "duked the system" to present his version
of events.
For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand
what was happening on Thurlow's boat, as Kerry's boat had sped down
the river after the mine exploded under another boat. He later
returned to provide assistance to the stricken boat.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -951 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.

User: "The True AntiLiberal"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 12:10:58 PM

Muad'Dib <Muad'Dib@dia.gov> wrote in message

Why doesn't Kerry talk about his 20 years in the Senate? What is his
most outstanding achievement/acomplishment?

Here ya go, enjoy:
see http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sirota.html

If Kerry's role was so monumental as you claim, why doesn't he mention
it HIMSELF on his website? Why is Kerry so fixated on his Vietnam
service?
Maybe the links to BCCI of Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden? Devout
Muslims don't believe in paying or receiving interest. A
connection...?
And if Kerry knew Saddam Hussein was a 'notorious tyrant and thug',
why did he oppose the first Gulf War?

BCCI catered to many of the most notorious
tyrants and thugs of the late 20th century, including Iraqi dictator
Saddam Hussein, the heads of the Medellin cocaine cartel, and Abu
Nidal, the notorious Palestinian terrorist.
A French intelligence
report obtained by The Washington Post in 2002 identified dozens of
companies and individuals who were involved with BCCI and were found to
be dealing with bin Laden after the bank collapsed,

User: "Lloyd Parker"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 08:44:39 AM

In article <1f3b80af.0408200910.79a8764a@posting.google.com>,

(The True AntiLiberal) wrote:

Muad'Dib <Muad'Dib@dia.gov> wrote in message

Why doesn't Kerry talk about his 20 years in the Senate? What is his
most outstanding achievement/acomplishment?

Here ya go, enjoy:

see http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sirota.html

If Kerry's role was so monumental as you claim, why doesn't he mention
it HIMSELF on his website? Why is Kerry so fixated on his Vietnam
service?

Maybe the links to BCCI of Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden? Devout
Muslims don't believe in paying or receiving interest. A
connection...?

And if Kerry knew Saddam Hussein was a 'notorious tyrant and thug',
why did he oppose the first Gulf War?

I bet Jesus, the Pope, and Mother Theresa did too.

A French intelligence
report obtained by The Washington Post in 2002 identified dozens of
companies and individuals who were involved with BCCI and were found to
be dealing with bin Laden after the bank collapsed,

User: "Jimmy J."
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	19 Aug 2004 03:50:22 PM

On 19 Aug 2004 11:51:24 -0700,

(The True
AntiLiberal) wrote:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>

Kerry is demanding to be made president on the basis of spending four
months in Vietnam 35 years ago.

Actually, he's asking the American people to vote for him based on the
whole package. ...20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

Why doesn't Kerry talk about his 20 years in the Senate? What is his
most outstanding achievement/acomplishment?

OK, That's a legitimate campaign issue.
Why can't the Republicans focus on that rather than dragging the
campaign into the gutter?
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	19 Aug 2004 04:12:53 PM

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:50:22 -0700, Jimmy J.
<skeezix@yahhoo.nospam.cx> wrote:

Why can't the Republicans focus on that rather than dragging the
campaign into the gutter?

Because a gutter fight disgusts voters and leads them to stay home and
not vote. It's important to them to keep independents home.
_______
Vote Bush/Voldemort 2004!
.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 12:32:26 AM

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:12:53 GMT,

wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:50:22 -0700, Jimmy J.
<skeezix@yahhoo.nospam.cx> wrote:

Why can't the Republicans focus on that rather than dragging the
campaign into the gutter?

Because a gutter fight disgusts voters and leads them to stay home and
not vote. It's important to them to keep independents home.
_______

One of the SwiftLiars got a medal beacause the bullets were flying
around that day. He didn't refuse the medal then, he didn't correct
the reports then. Either lied to the military to keep the medal or he
lied in the ads. Either way he is a liar.
5 boats went out, 5 officers on them. One came back with a hole in it
to explain.
The SwiftLiars gave their reports on the day of the incident. Kerry
towed one disabled craft home so we know they arrived at base
together. If they LIED THAT DAY, that is the lie they are stuck with.
If they TOLD THE TRUTH THAT DAY then they lied in their ads. Either
way you have liars. Look at their records first. What did they say on
the day they made their reports.
Why aren't they releasing their records?
We have established these are FELONY FRAUD LIARS. Now look at the
records of everybody else involved in this FELONY FRAUD. Look at
Merrie Spaeth whose thankfully dead husband, Tex Lezar, ran on the
same ticket that got GWB the governors mansion in Texas. This guy's
name is on a NCPA list on the internet with six known organized crime
felon's who specialize in FRAUD of the body politic. Don't know who
Spaeth is? She was a 'Monica', a whitehouse fellow, in the same
building where Nancy Reagan used to sneak off to the Lincoln bedroom
with Frank Sinatra. She also is the organizer of the first wave of
publicity for these FELONY FRAUD SWIFT BOAT ORGANIZED CRIME OPERATORS.
Demand Spaeth's records. Demand Lezar's records. Demand the
Lezar-Spaeth crime family friend's records.
There's a whole lot of records that Bob Perry is going to be
producing. Every federal and state agency will be on him like stink on
*****, making him produce records. You don't fund a CRIME OPERATION and
walk into the sunset whistling Dixie. Spaeth, and all, did a hatchet
job on McCain and robbed the republican party of his candidacy, but
they tangled with tougher meat than they know how to chew now.
Demand Bob Perry's records.
You want records. I'll release records. Read 'em and weep... Your
whole stinking organized crime network laid out so that even dumbfuk
jurors can follow without any shadow of a doubt.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Koctopus_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Killer_David_Koch.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/CSE_Organized_Crime.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_CFACT.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Seitz_Tobacco_Crimes.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Nightline.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-1993-1994.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Seitz.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Stohrer-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Hazeltine-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Heidelberg-Appeal.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Sallie_Baliunas.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Walter_Williams_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Richard_S_Lindzen.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/ADTI_Frauds_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/AdTI_Villians.htm
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Pelosi.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Becky_Norton_Dunlop_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Confronting_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Chrispeels.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Idsos.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Fred_Michel.html
.

User: "james dorfu"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	19 Aug 2004 03:58:09 PM

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:50:22 -0700, Jimmy J. wrote:

On 19 Aug 2004 11:51:24 -0700,

(The True
AntiLiberal) wrote:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com>

Kerry is demanding to be made president on the basis of spending four
months in Vietnam 35 years ago.

Actually, he's asking the American people to vote for him based on the
whole package. ...20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

Why doesn't Kerry talk about his 20 years in the Senate? What is his
most outstanding achievement/acomplishment?

OK, That's a legitimate campaign issue.

Why can't the Republicans focus on that rather than dragging the
campaign into the gutter?

Kerry brought the campaign into the gutter with his lies. If he were a
decent fellow, he would immediately withdraw.
--
Thursday is this week's annual "Pork Chops for Islam" day.
.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 12:32:02 AM

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:58:09 -0700, james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu>
wrote:

Kerry

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 12:31:24 AM

On 19 Aug 2004 11:51:24 -0700,

(The True
AntiLiberal) wrote:

Notice the EXCLUSION of:

User: "Paul Mitchum"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	19 Aug 2004 07:07:00 PM

The True AntiLiberal <thetrueantiliberal@yahoo.com> wrote:

Why doesn't Kerry talk about his 20 years in the Senate? What is his
most outstanding achievement/acomplishment?

Supporting the Iraq war, of course.
--
"I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I had a choice, I'd rather go
to war." - GWB, Houston Chronicle, January 2002
.

User: "Kate "
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	19 Aug 2004 09:56:00 PM

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:07:00 -0700, usenet@mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum)
wrote:

The True AntiLiberal <thetrueantiliberal@yahoo.com> wrote:

Why doesn't Kerry talk about his 20 years in the Senate? What is his
most outstanding achievement/acomplishment?

Supporting the Iraq war, of course.

I guess you didn't read the actual text. Kerry supported giving the
president a chance to make his case for the war. Bush broke the law
and decided to start it anyway.
Kerry never voted for allowing Bush to start a war and neither did
anyone else.
.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 12:33:12 AM

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:07:00 -0700, usenet@mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum)
wrote:

User: "Al"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	19 Aug 2004 02:17:53 PM

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<jgf9i0t8u3ssgiqljg1q6km4skqv6piu50@4ax.com>...

In our last thrilling episode,

(Dave Cook) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 19 Aug 2004 05:09:54 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

These "newly obtained records" were "found" by someone after almost 40
years, and probably can be traced back to Kerry"s efforts to get a
bronze medal.

It's a Bronze Star. And you get one because someone nominates you for
one based on your observed performance.

Kerry is demanding to be made president on the basis of spending four
months in Vietnam 35 years ago.

Actually, he's asking the American people to vote for him based on the
whole package. Which includes his military service, time as an
activist,

As an activist he testified he committed war crimes.

working as a prosecuting attorney,

What was his major contributions during this time?

election as the
Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts,

What was his major contributions during this time?

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?
.

User: "Wexford"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 09:47:54 AM

(Al) wrote in message news:<3965eb5d.0408191117.6f7135c4@posting.google.com>...

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<jgf9i0t8u3ssgiqljg1q6km4skqv6piu50@4ax.com>...

In our last thrilling episode,

(Dave Cook) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 19 Aug 2004 05:09:54 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

These "newly obtained records" were "found" by someone after almost 40
years, and probably can be traced back to Kerry"s efforts to get a
bronze medal.

It's a Bronze Star. And you get one because someone nominates you for
one based on your observed performance.

Kerry is demanding to be made president on the basis of spending four
months in Vietnam 35 years ago.

Actually, he's asking the American people to vote for him based on the
whole package. Which includes his military service, time as an
activist,

As an activist he testified he committed war crimes.

As an activist he testified that the way the war was prosecuted in
Vietnam was in contravention to the Geneva Convention and to
international agreements. Free fire zones, the indiscriminate use of
defoliants and napalm, the resettlement of villagers from Viet Cong
dominated areas and the destruction of their villages, the bombing of
civilian targets, and the murder of POWs were all common occurrences
in Vietnam. No one denies them, not the Government, not the military,
and certainly not the Vietnamese. Every person who served in Vietnam
in some way contributed to these things.
The Vietnam War, though, was a very special circumstance where the
applicability of the rules could be questioned. We were ostensibly
aiding a soverign country against an internal insurrection and a
foreign invasion (if you consider the North Vietnamese to have been
foreign invaders). If the Vietnamese not only approve, but request our
aid in resettling a Viet Cong dominated village, have we really
violated any rules of war? If the people are moved to a newly
constructed village and their old housing burned down, have we acted
inhumanely? Some would would say "yes," that there was no foreign
invader, that the war was a civil war and that we supported an
illegally formed puppet government in the South. In that case, these
were war crimes. Some took the opposite tact. In any case, Kerry was
never indicted and tried (if he had been, virtually every one who
served in Vietnam would be guilty of something), so this nonsense of
his being an admitted war criminal is just that -- a nonsense
argument. He was being dramatic when he called himself that. It's the
license of an activist. You can't call attention to a cause without
being dramatic. The Right knows that just as well as the Left. After
all, that's how Bush got us into Iraq.
I joined the Army when I graduated from college because (1) I was
going to be drafted anyway, (2) every other service rejected me as
physically unfit (bad eyes, but not bad enough for the Army), and (3)
I really thought that Vietnam should be spared what Bernard Fall
called "the dark night of oriental Communism." All told, I spent three
years in Vietnam in military and civilian positions, firmly convinced
that we should defend and protect its people. It damn near broke my
heart when Saigon fell in 1975. I personlly knew some of the people
who were trying to climb over our embassy wall, and the vision of our
shameful abandonment of people to whom we had promised protection and
freedom, caused me pain and cast a shadow on my life for decades.
In retrosepct, however, I can now look the period with more
objectivity. It was obvious from Tet of '68 that we had no hope of
winning. Instead, we poured money and lives into a losing cause, then,
in a proxism of stupidity, destabilized Cambodia, established a
puppet, worried the Chinese and set the stage for the Khmer Rouge
takeover, and completed the treachery by abandoning Indochina to the
mercies of the North Vietnam Communists and Pol Pot. The North
Vietnamese, to my surprise, took on the burden of dealing with an
insane, murdering, Chinese-supported regime in Cambodia. At terrible
expense to themselves and at great sacrifice, and without foreign aid,
they invaded, fought and conquered the Khmer Rouge. Our old enemies,
the people we had portrayed as the very nemesis of freedom, had
actually liberated Cambodia. With all that in view, and with the war
long past, I can now see Kerry as a person who had an accurate vision
of events, whose passion to end the war was justified and, had he been
heeded, would have saved millions of lives.

working as a prosecuting attorney,

What was his major contributions during this time?

He prosecuted offenders. He was popular enough in the role to be
elected Lieutenant Governor. What was Bush doing at the time? Going
bankrupt? Getting drunk?

election as the
Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts,

What was his major contributions during this time?

Name the accomplishments of any Lt. Governor anywhere. They keep the
seat warm and stand by in case the Governor is either indicted or
dies.

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

He sponsored literally hundreds of bills and co-sponsored hundreds
more. You can read about it here:
http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/issues/legislation.html# . His
records on defense, the enviornment, health care, etc, are impeccable,
unless you're prone to believe the lies and exaggerations put out by
the Reopublican propaganda machine. By the way, what was Bush doing
during the decade before his election to Governor? Have any idea?
What did he accomplish between, say, 1970 and 1992? What great public
service? What great industrial achievement? Tell us of the glory of
those years, and why you love and respect this man so much. We'd all
like to know.
Wexford
.

User: "John Popelish"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 11:12:39 AM

Wexford wrote:
(snip)

... With all that in view, and with the war long past,
I can now see Kerry as a person who had an accurate vision of events,
whose passion to end the war was justified and,
had he been heeded, would have saved millions of lives.

(snip)
You and thousands of other Vietnam vets who are honest with themselves
about their experiences in Vietnam. Do the Republicans really think
that if they smear another Vietnam vet who spoke out against the war,
that the world will finally recognize that the American effort in
Vietnam was a good thing? The Democrats generally gave up on this
kind of foolishness after Johnson left office, but the Republicans
have been pushing this since Nixon was in office.
It boggles the mind.

--
John Popelish
.

User: "Ken Smith"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	19 Aug 2004 08:03:17 PM

Al wrote:

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

Compared to George "The Saudis bailed me out" Bush?
Well, Kerry didn't commit insider trading, run several companies into
the ground, or get installed as managing partner of a baseball team
based on nothing more than his genes.
Gee, if you compare the two on their merit, Kerry wins hands down!
.

User: "Al"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 10:34:01 AM

Ken Smith <forget@it.com> wrote in message news:<41254D09.8090504@it.com>...

Al wrote:

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

Compared to George "The Saudis bailed me out" Bush?

Well, Kerry didn't commit insider trading, run several companies into
the ground, or get installed as managing partner of a baseball team
based on nothing more than his genes.

Bush didn't do this as governor of Texas. The greatest thing Bush did
in Texas was turn their educational system around.

Gee, if you compare the two on their merit, Kerry wins hands down!

So what did Kerry do in *20 FREAKIN' YEARS* in the Senate? You didn't
answer the question.
.

User: "Geoff"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 12:08:52 PM

"Al" <caddyshack_al@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:3965eb5d.0408200734.450701c9@posting.google.com...

Ken Smith <forget@it.com> wrote in message

news:<41254D09.8090504@it.com>...

Al wrote:

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

Compared to George "The Saudis bailed me out" Bush?

Well, Kerry didn't commit insider trading, run several companies into
the ground, or get installed as managing partner of a baseball team
based on nothing more than his genes.

Bush didn't do this as governor of Texas. The greatest thing Bush did
in Texas was turn their educational system around.

Ha...that's a crock of *****. He can trumpet all he wants
about that but the evidence doesn't support it.
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 05:33:51 PM

In our last thrilling episode,

(Al) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 20 Aug 2004 08:34:01 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

Ken Smith <forget@it.com> wrote in message news:<41254D09.8090504@it.com>...

Al wrote:

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

Compared to George "The Saudis bailed me out" Bush?

Well, Kerry didn't commit insider trading, run several companies into
the ground, or get installed as managing partner of a baseball team
based on nothing more than his genes.

Bush didn't do this as governor of Texas. The greatest thing Bush did
in Texas was turn their educational system around.

Where did Texas stand in terms of educational ranking in 2000? In
1990?
Percentage of population graduated from high school in 2000 (79.2%)
That's 46th.
Public high school graduation rate in 2000 (61.9%)
That's 39th.
Expenditures per pupil in elementary and secondary schools in 2001
($6,384)
34th place.
The only thing Bush did was introduced a standardized test. Which
insured that rather than educating, schools became training academies
for taking a single test.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 07:11:50 PM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:33:51 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

Percentage of population graduated from high school in 2000 (79.2%)

That's 46th.

Public high school graduation rate in 2000 (61.9%)

That's 39th.

Except of course its since been shown they cooked the books and
dropped dropouts off the rolls to come up with those numbers.
_______
Vote Bush/Voldemort 2004!
.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 12:34:06 AM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:03:17 GMT, Ken Smith <forget@it.com> wrote:

Kerry wins hands down!

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	19 Aug 2004 10:58:00 PM

In our last thrilling episode,

(Al) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 19 Aug 2004 12:17:53 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<jgf9i0t8u3ssgiqljg1q6km4skqv6piu50@4ax.com>...

Actually, he's asking the American people to vote for him based on the
whole package. Which includes his military service, time as an
activist,

As an activist he testified he committed war crimes.

Yup. Things which we consider war crimes were SOP in Vietnam, most
notably the concept of "free fire zones."

working as a prosecuting attorney,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact1
An extensive, hinest look at John Kerry's six years as a DA. He
reorganized the office, set up victim assitance programs, organized
crime and arson task forces, hired dozens of prosecutors, cleared the
case backlog, and also prosecuted and won cases.

election as the
Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=5190
He worked with the federal government and the states on environmental
problems. He was only Lt. Gov for two years before coming to the
Senate.

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/issues/legislation.html
For the last five Congressional sessions. During the 108th Congress
he sponsered 48 bills, and cosponsored 449.
Then we have his committee assignments:
http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/about/committee.html
and finally, some of the accolades and honors he's recieved over the
years.
http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/about/accomplishments.html
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Al"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 10:42:38 AM

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<3csai0tqcf7hdje28u5501s008pm753lnu@4ax.com>...

In our last thrilling episode,

(Al) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 19 Aug 2004 12:17:53 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<jgf9i0t8u3ssgiqljg1q6km4skqv6piu50@4ax.com>...

Actually, he's asking the American people to vote for him based on the
whole package. Which includes his military service, time as an
activist,

As an activist he testified he committed war crimes.

Yup. Things which we consider war crimes were SOP in Vietnam, most
notably the concept of "free fire zones."

So what you are saying is that war crimes were customary and Kerry
just went along with the crowd because exceptional leaders do that?

working as a prosecuting attorney,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact1

An extensive, hinest look at John Kerry's six years as a DA. He
reorganized the office, set up victim assitance programs, organized
crime and arson task forces, hired dozens of prosecutors, cleared the
case backlog, and also prosecuted and won cases.

election as the
Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=5190

He worked with the federal government and the states on environmental
problems. He was only Lt. Gov for two years before coming to the
Senate.

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

What I'm looking for here is what he hangs his hat on after 20 years.
Is it B'nai Brith Council of Greater Boston's 'Man of the Year'?" Just
one or two of his major highlights. Something(s) that have made our
lives better. Thanks.
.

User: "Geoff"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 12:10:14 PM

"Al" <

> wrote in message
news:3965eb5d.0408200742.6c1d2ef0@posting.google.com...

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message

news:<3csai0tqcf7hdje28u5501s008pm753lnu@4ax.com>...

In our last thrilling episode,

(Al) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 19 Aug 2004 12:17:53 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message

news:<jgf9i0t8u3ssgiqljg1q6km4skqv6piu50@4ax.com>...

Actually, he's asking the American people to vote for him based on

the

whole package. Which includes his military service, time as an
activist,

As an activist he testified he committed war crimes.

Yup. Things which we consider war crimes were SOP in Vietnam, most
notably the concept of "free fire zones."

So what you are saying is that war crimes were customary and Kerry
just went along with the crowd because exceptional leaders do that?

working as a prosecuting attorney,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact1

An extensive, hinest look at John Kerry's six years as a DA. He
reorganized the office, set up victim assitance programs, organized
crime and arson task forces, hired dozens of prosecutors, cleared the
case backlog, and also prosecuted and won cases.

election as the
Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=5190

He worked with the federal government and the states on environmental
problems. He was only Lt. Gov for two years before coming to the
Senate.

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

Jesus...you asked for specifics...you got them...deal with it.
.

User: "Al"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	22 Aug 2004 05:17:04 PM

"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<WfqVc.23733$Fg5.9229@attbi_s53>...

"Al" <

> wrote in message
news:3965eb5d.0408200742.6c1d2ef0@posting.google.com...

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message

news:<3csai0tqcf7hdje28u5501s008pm753lnu@4ax.com>...

In our last thrilling episode,

(Al) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 19 Aug 2004 12:17:53 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message

news:<jgf9i0t8u3ssgiqljg1q6km4skqv6piu50@4ax.com>...

Actually, he's asking the American people to vote for him based on

the

whole package. Which includes his military service, time as an
activist,

As an activist he testified he committed war crimes.

Yup. Things which we consider war crimes were SOP in Vietnam, most
notably the concept of "free fire zones."

So what you are saying is that war crimes were customary and Kerry
just went along with the crowd because exceptional leaders do that?

working as a prosecuting attorney,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact1

An extensive, hinest look at John Kerry's six years as a DA. He
reorganized the office, set up victim assitance programs, organized
crime and arson task forces, hired dozens of prosecutors, cleared the
case backlog, and also prosecuted and won cases.

election as the
Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=5190

He worked with the federal government and the states on environmental
problems. He was only Lt. Gov for two years before coming to the
Senate.

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

Jesus...you asked for specifics...you got them...deal with it.

"B'nai Brith Man or the Year" it is then.
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 05:41:18 PM

In our last thrilling episode,

(Al) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 20 Aug 2004 08:42:38 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<3csai0tqcf7hdje28u5501s008pm753lnu@4ax.com>...

As an activist he testified he committed war crimes.

Yup. Things which we consider war crimes were SOP in Vietnam, most
notably the concept of "free fire zones."

So what you are saying is that war crimes were customary and Kerry
just went along with the crowd because exceptional leaders do that?

At the time, he was told that it was not illegal. He learned
differently upon his return home. Try reading his book. He didn't
approve of FFZs while in Vietnam.

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact1

An extensive, hinest look at John Kerry's six years as a DA. He
reorganized the office, set up victim assitance programs, organized
crime and arson task forces, hired dozens of prosecutors, cleared the
case backlog, and also prosecuted and won cases.

What, no comments? You asked for facts, are you dissapointed to learn
that he was a dynamic, effective ADA?

election as the
Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=5190

He worked with the federal government and the states on environmental
problems. He was only Lt. Gov for two years before coming to the
Senate.

Again, no comments! As LtGov he worked with the international
community, meeting world leaders to deal with the problem of acid
rain! George Bush never left the nation until he was President!
Does the fact that Kerry has a proven track record in dealing with our
European allies disturb you?

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

Well, you could read the bills he sponsors, read his speeches, read
the biography written by the Boston Globe reporters who have covered
him for three days shy of forever..
You want something? John Kerry has worked for over twenty year to
repair the environment of the Northeast. Because of his efforts, you
rarely hear about acid rain - because we've passed laws that reduce
the pollutants that cause it. That in turn has improved the economy
of several states because of improved agricultural output, resurgence
in fishing banks, and incresed tourism to see the fall colors. That
increased economic activity translates to the rest of the nation when
these people by cars, food, clothing and other items.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Al"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	22 Aug 2004 05:25:57 PM

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<r4vci0tbi6cstrfec5tg4i9ev651o8391v@4ax.com>...

In our last thrilling episode,

(Al) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 20 Aug 2004 08:42:38 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<3csai0tqcf7hdje28u5501s008pm753lnu@4ax.com>...

As an activist he testified he committed war crimes.

Yup. Things which we consider war crimes were SOP in Vietnam, most
notably the concept of "free fire zones."

So what you are saying is that war crimes were customary and Kerry
just went along with the crowd because exceptional leaders do that?

At the time, he was told that it was not illegal. He learned
differently upon his return home. Try reading his book. He didn't
approve of FFZs while in Vietnam.

"Winter Soldier"? It's like $1000 on Ebay because John Kerry won't
allow it to be republished. You have a copy? You can give me a
citation, right?

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact1

An extensive, hinest look at John Kerry's six years as a DA. He
reorganized the office, set up victim assitance programs, organized
crime and arson task forces, hired dozens of prosecutors, cleared the
case backlog, and also prosecuted and won cases.

What, no comments? You asked for facts, are you dissapointed to learn
that he was a dynamic, effective ADA?

I'm sure he did a fine job as an assistant DA. It sounds like he
really cleaned up the crime in Boston although it doesn't say by how
much.

election as the
Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts,

What was his major contributions during this time?

http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=5190

He worked with the federal government and the states on environmental
problems. He was only Lt. Gov for two years before coming to the
Senate.

Again, no comments! As LtGov he worked with the international
community, meeting world leaders to deal with the problem of acid
rain! George Bush never left the nation until he was President!

Does the fact that Kerry has a proven track record in dealing with our
European allies disturb you?

Actually, no. What is this record? This may be what I'm looking for.
We know he does have a great record with (what was) North Vietnam.

then 20 years of service in the
United States Senate.

What was his major contributions during this time?

Well, you could read the bills he sponsors, read his speeches, read
the biography written by the Boston Globe reporters who have covered
him for three days shy of forever..

One or two highlights is fine. That's all I'm asking for.

You want something? John Kerry has worked for over twenty year to
repair the environment of the Northeast. Because of his efforts, you
rarely hear about acid rain - because we've passed laws that reduce
the pollutants that cause it.

We know how he votes. And it would be quite a feather in his cap if he
initiated some of these bills. Which ones?

That in turn has improved the economy
of several states because of improved agricultural output, resurgence
in fishing banks, and incresed tourism to see the fall colors. That
increased economic activity translates to the rest of the nation when
these people by cars, food, clothing and other items.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	25 Aug 2004 03:02:56 PM

In our last thrilling episode,

(Al) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 22 Aug 2004 15:25:57 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<r4vci0tbi6cstrfec5tg4i9ev651o8391v@4ax.com>...

In our last thrilling episode,

(Al) was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on 20 Aug 2004 08:42:38 -0700 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
At the time, he was told that it was not illegal. He learned
differently upon his return home. Try reading his book. He didn't
approve of FFZs while in Vietnam.

"Winter Soldier"? It's like $1000 on Ebay because John Kerry won't
allow it to be republished. You have a copy? You can give me a
citation, right?

Ever hear of the library? My local system has five copies.
Oh, and looking at eBay shows that this claim is incorrect. I
couldn't find a copy for auction for anything more than $20.00

What, no comments? You asked for facts, are you dissapointed to learn
that he was a dynamic, effective ADA?

I'm sure he did a fine job as an assistant DA. It sounds like he
really cleaned up the crime in Boston although it doesn't say by how
much.

So go do the research! If you want me to do it, my consulting fees
start at $75.00/hour, with a ten hour minimum.

Again, no comments! As LtGov he worked with the international
community, meeting world leaders to deal with the problem of acid
rain! George Bush never left the nation until he was President!

Does the fact that Kerry has a proven track record in dealing with our
European allies disturb you?

Actually, no. What is this record? This may be what I'm looking for.
We know he does have a great record with (what was) North Vietnam.

Yeah, he killed their soldiers and was awarded for it. Unlike Bush.
His legislative record is open. All you have to do is look at it.

Well, you could read the bills he sponsors, read his speeches, read
the biography written by the Boston Globe reporters who have covered
him for three days shy of forever..

One or two highlights is fine. That's all I'm asking for.

Fine. John Kerry spearheaded the cleaning up of the Northeast
envcironment not by raising taxes, but by championing tax breaks for
companies that cleaned up their acts.

We know how he votes. And it would be quite a feather in his cap if he
initiated some of these bills. Which ones?

1. Go to this site:
http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/issues/legislation.html#
2. Click on "Bills Sponsored by Senator Kerry.
3. Read.
Those are the bills he has introduced on the Senate floor, going back
about ten years on that site.
Is it that difficult? Really, you *do* understand Google and web
searches right? You can also order documents from the Congressional
Printing Office, including the Congressional Record.

No comment, I see.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Yang, AthD h.c"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	22 Aug 2004 05:28:28 PM

On 20 Aug 2004 08:42:38 -0700,

(Al) wrote:

He did not get busted for DUI like AWOL.
Next.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -962 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.

User: "Michael Marxist Moore"
Title: THE FILTH OF HOMOSEXUALITY & LIBERALS	22 Aug 2004 10:30:26 PM

THE FILTH OF HOMOSEXUALITY & LIBERALS
http://www.tencommandments.org/
5/20/2001
******************************
A message to all homosexuals:
Surely you are blind. You view the truth against homosexuality as
filth and the filth and evil of homosexuality as cleanliness. What a
terrible trajedy!
Have you not understood how vile and filthy the act of homosexuality
is? Do you not perceive the need for personal hygiene? Wouldn't a
hygienically conscious male consider a female to be very filthy if her
vagina was filled with excrement and he got it and its stench on
himself during the sexual act? That is how filthy the act of
homosexuality is, even when it is performed by senators, congressmen,
doctors, attorneys, newspaper editors, teachers, celebrities and etc.
Homosexuality is an extremely filthy act regardless of who performs
it.
Homosexuals also perform oral anal sex. That is even more unclean! By
doing so, they ingest human feces. Don't you understand how filthy
human feces is? It can carry all kinds of terrible diseases, including
typhoid, cholera, amoebic dysentery, the Aids virus, hepatitis A,
worms, bacteria and bowel inflictions. Who but nasty totally depraved
maggots enjoy having colon or anal sex even when they know they will
get feces, its stench and bring its diseases upon themselves!
Not only is the act of homosexuality physically filthy, but it is also
morally filthy. So why do you say that anyone who opposes
homosexuality speaks filth and you do not regard the act of
homosexuality filth? Your
sympathy for homosexuality proves you to be a very filthy person.
The terrible immoral and physical uncleanliness of homosexuality makes
it the next moral crime to bestiality. If one does not have moral
scruples against committing the verminous unnatural act of
homosexuality, he or she will not scruple against the filthy and
unnatural act of bestiality. This is
one of the things that makes the act of homosexuality so vile and
heinous. When depraved humans get adjusted to practicing and receiving
pleasure from a particular level of depravity, they will not remain
satisfied with the degree of degraded pleasure they receive in that
realm, but will begin to lust for the pleasure that can be derived
from the next level. For those who derive sinful pleasure from the act
of homosexuality, the next level is bestiality (Leviticus 18:22-23).
Homosexuals are not called "dogs" by God in the Bible for nothing
(Deuteronomy 23:18). Now you know the true origin of Aids among
mankind. It had its origin from homosexuals who had and continue to
have anal, genital and oral sex with animals. Now you understand one
reason God forbids fornication. The next time you get ready to have
illicit
sex of whatever type, you might want to ask: "With whom or with what
kind of animal did this person last copulate with?"
.

User: "Psalm110"
Title: Re: THE FILTH OF HOMOSEXUALITY & LIBERALS	23 Aug 2004 08:27:07 PM

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:30:26 -0400, accomplice to felons Michael
Marxist Moore <mmmoore@N0TSPAM.0RG> told aided frauds by posting:
??? THE FILTH
Fresh Links to Republican FELONY FRAUD SmearBoats villians
HOT NEWS! Exposing more on the Felony Fraud SwiftLiars Organized Crime
connections
LATEST NEWS - August 23, 2004
** http://tinyurl.com/3kt5v Silver Star incident: Langhofer, on other
boat, saw firing from both banks of a river.
** http://tinyurl.com/5bf5k Vets, others call for resignation of
prosecutor in SwiftLies ad
** http://tinyurl.com/63wmp Republican prosecutor Alfred French's lies
on affidavit about events he did not witness.
** http://tinyurl.com/65qsn Republican prosecuter's Anti-Kerry hearsay
is worthless.
August 22 or earlier:
** http://tinyurl.com/4e3y2 BusinessWeek: Flinging the Foul Mud of
Vietnam. John Kerry returned a hero. The smears his political enemies
are now flinging mark them -- not him -- as beneath contempt
** http://tinyurl.com/4yeu7 Kerry also picked up support from Wayne D.
Langhofer, who told The Washington Post he was manning a machine gun
in a boat behind Kerry's and saw firing from both banks of a river as
Kerry dived in to rescue Special Forces soldier James Rassmann, the
basis for Kerry's Bronze Star.
** http://tinyurl.com/6arcy Bush campaign admits "Cordier was a
supporter of the President during the 2000 election and served as a
member of the President's veterans' steering committee during this
election."
** http://tinyurl.com/44t3g Registered Republican SwillBoat Ad Shill
was not there.
** http://tinyurl.com/3rtwt SwillBoat prosecutors presents heresay as
if he was eyewitness.
** http://tinyurl.com/6ubnz SwillBoater claims he has no evidence
** http://tinyurl.com/639as SwiftLie vet working to help re-ele