Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Yang, AthD h.c"
Date:	18 Aug 2004 10:46:07 PM
Object:	Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most
vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate
of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own
version of events.
In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who
commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly
disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came
under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March
13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.
But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released
yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act,
contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons
fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won
his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for
providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets
flying about him."
....
I never heard a shot," Thurlow said in his affidavit, which was
released by Swift Boats Veterans for Truth. The group claims the
backing of more than 250 Vietnam veterans, including a majority of
Kerry's fellow boat commanders.
A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his
actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG
THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the
disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units
in the flotilla also came under fire.
....
Thurlow and other anti-Kerry veterans have repeatedly alleged that
Kerry was the author of an after-action report that described how his
boat came under enemy fire. Kerry campaign researchers dispute that
assertion, and there is no convincing documentary evidence to settle
the argument. As the senior skipper in the flotilla, Thurlow might
have been expected to write the after-action report for March 13, but
he said that Kerry routinely "duked the system" to present his version
of events.
For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand
what was happening on Thurlow's boat, as Kerry's boat had sped down
the river after the mine exploded under another boat. He later
returned to provide assistance to the stricken boat.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -951 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.

User: "james dorfu"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 01:53:09 PM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:36:48 -0700, Paul Mitchum wrote:

james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:55:08 -0700, Raph Bartowski wrote:

[..]

You folks keep declaring victory but it still hasn't happened. Must
be frustrating for you.

Perhaps you believe that Kerry's call for the banning of the book is a
sign of his winning? Perhaps you also agree that the book should be
banned?

You'll have to provide a quote of Kerry saying he wants to ban the book.

Today, Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton suggested on the online news
site Salon.com that the publisher, Regnery, should withdraw the book from
sale.
"No publisher should want to be selling books with proven falsehoods in
them, especially falsehoods that are meant to smear the military service
of an American veteran," he said.
"If I were them, I'd be ducking under my desk wondering what to do. This
is a serious problem."
http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/08/20/story162747.html
Of course now you can say that it was only his campaign spokesman, not
Kerry himself.
--
Thursday is this week's annual "Pork Chops for Islam" day.
.

User: "Lloyd Parker"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 01:08:55 PM

In article <pan.2004.08.20.18.53.06.322361@edu.nospam.msu>,
james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:36:48 -0700, Paul Mitchum wrote:

james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:55:08 -0700, Raph Bartowski wrote:

[..]

You folks keep declaring victory but it still hasn't happened. Must
be frustrating for you.

Perhaps you believe that Kerry's call for the banning of the book is a
sign of his winning? Perhaps you also agree that the book should be
banned?

You'll have to provide a quote of Kerry saying he wants to ban the book.

Today, Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton suggested on the online news
site Salon.com that the publisher, Regnery, should withdraw the book from
sale.

"No publisher should want to be selling books with proven falsehoods in
them, especially falsehoods that are meant to smear the military service
of an American veteran," he said.

"If I were them, I'd be ducking under my desk wondering what to do. This
is a serious problem."

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/08/20/story162747.html

Of course now you can say that it was only his campaign spokesman, not
Kerry himself.

Sounds like the right-wing's banning the Dixie Chicks, urging people to
boycott Springsteen, and trying to keep Farhenheit 9/11 out of theaters,
doesn't it?
.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	21 Aug 2004 03:45:05 AM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:53:09 -0700, james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu>
wrote:

Today, Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton suggested on the online news
site Salon.com that the publisher, Regnery, should withdraw the book from
sale.

"No publisher should want to be selling books with proven falsehoods in
them, especially falsehoods that are meant to smear the military service
of an American veteran," he said.

"If I were them, I'd be ducking under my desk wondering what to do. This
is a serious problem."

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/08/20/story162747.html

Of course now you can say that it was only his campaign spokesman, not
Kerry himself.

Exposing more on the Felony Fraud SwiftLiars Organized Crime
connections
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html?pagewanted=1
http://tinyurl.com/4r7a8
*** George W. Bush - Closely tied to Merrie Spaeth's husband Tex
Lezar, benefitted from Bob Perry money, linked to Karl Rove, to
Stevens Reed Curcio & Potholm, to Regnery publishing, to Harlan Crow
http://tinyurl.com/4uc37 http://tinyurl.com/54lqw
http://tinyurl.com/6j2gd
*** Karl Rove - Closely linked to GW Bush, to Merrie Spaeth, to John
O'Neill, to Bob Perry, to Harlan Crow, to organized crime conspiracies
of Philip Morris http://tinyurl.com/3hpjo http://tinyurl.com/5cmwh
http://tinyurl.com/5gbbd http://tinyurl.com/5qcb2
http://tinyurl.com/6ocdy http://tinyurl.com/69vjn
http://tinyurl.com/5l2ee
*** Merrie Spaeth (Tex Lezar) Linked to GW Bush, Linked to smears of
John McCain using same criminal fraud tactics, to Karl Rove, Bob
Perry, to Ken Starr, linked to organized crime tobacco conspiracies
http://tinyurl.com/64v3c http://tinyurl.com/63zvu
http://tinyurl.com/43fek
*** Roy F. Hoffmann, a retired rear admiral and a leader of the group
http://tinyurl.com/5h6za http://tinyurl.com/3rx8z
*** John E. O'Neill (Charles Colson apprentice) Linked to Nixon,
registered republican and donor, linked to Crow and Perry, to Corsi
and Regnery http://tinyurl.com/4vrwq http://tinyurl.com/496xl
*** Harlan Crow (Swiftliars funder) Linked to Bush, to Perry AEI
board, http://tinyurl.com/5afl5 http://tinyurl.com/6l7vn
http://tinyurl.com/57oc8
*** Bob J. Perry (Swiftliars funder) Linked to Bush, Rove, Crow
http://tinyurl.com/3oggt http://tinyurl.com/6kaso
*** Stevens Reed Curcio & Potholm, (SwillBoat Ad maker) Linked to
republican party, numerous republican polician campaigns
http://tinyurl.com/5z7dd http://tinyurl.com/6g7fc
http://tinyurl.com/55f4r http://tinyurl.com/5uwlw
http://tinyurl.com/5nmv7 http://tinyurl.com/6xnut
*** Regnery, a conservative company linked to Richard Mellon Scaife
who manipulates best-seller book list rankings, to Ken Starr, to Corsi
and O'Neill http://tinyurl.com/5qw2n http://tinyurl.com/4zvy2
http://tinyurl.com/6vbpf http://tinyurl.com/5szod
http://tinyurl.com/4ycqd
*** Jerome R. Corsi Linked to Richard Scaife, to O'Neill, to Regnery
http://tinyurl.com/5a83u http://tinyurl.com/5l66z
http://tinyurl.com/5zyuz http://tinyurl.com/4zkmo
http://tinyurl.com/5zyuz
*** Dr. Louis Letson http://tinyurl.com/3sf73
http://tinyurl.com/5atvt
*** William L. Schachte Jr., a retired rear admiral
http://tinyurl.com/3wttr http://tinyurl.com/65xuf
*** Larry Thurlow, who said his boat was 50 to 60 yards from Mr.
Kerry's. http://tinyurl.com/5m4dc http://tinyurl.com/6fyu4
http://tinyurl.com/5mhcw
The felony fraud organized crime ring is further connected to other
organiced crime fraud operations:
### Richard Mellon Scaife <http://tinyurl.com/5vdpe> is trumpetting it
from his publications. Scaife is historically linked to several of the
felons in the SwiftLiars crime ring. Scaife also funds a broad
coalition of websites and front organizations which are also promoting
this felony conspiracy though their own fraud crime operations:
*** Heritage Foundation, $20,696,640 (Townhall.com)
http://tinyurl.com/6ng83 Google.com Results 6,000 for "Heritage
Foundation" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research
$5,201,000 http://tinyurl.com/68tqj Google.com Results 1,750 for
"American Enterprise Institute" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** American Spectator Educational Foundation, Inc. $4,144,000
http://tinyurl.com/3n92j Google.com Results 1,920 for "American
Spectator" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** Accuracy in Media, Inc. $3,225,000 http://tinyurl.com/3tg26
Google.com Results 2,880 for "Accuracy in Media" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation $2,335,000
http://tinyurl.com/53kxs Google.com Results about 2,590 for "Citizens
for a Sound Economy" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** Cato Institute $1,872,500 http://tinyurl.com/6jrt7 Google.com
Results 1,920 for "Cato Institute" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** National Center for Policy Analysis $1,760,000
http://tinyurl.com/4yyhy Google.com Results 2,550 for "National Center
for Policy Analysis" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** Independent Women's Forum $1,600,000 http://tinyurl.com/4j9ae
Google.com Results 2,670 for "Independent Women's Forum" Swift boat OR
Boats.
*** Competitive Enterprise Institute $1,525,000
http://tinyurl.com/585fn Google.com Results 2,550 for "Competitive
Enterprise Institute" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** American Legislative Exchange Council $1,495,000
http://tinyurl.com/5kuo9 Google.com Results 2,480 for "American
Legislative Exchange Council" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** Defenders of Property Rights $965,000 http://tinyurl.com/4l3gc
Google.com Results 2,440 for "Defenders of Property Rights" Swift boat
OR Boats.
*** Media Research Center, Inc. $952,000 http://tinyurl.com/46hys
Google.com Results 5,240 for "Media Research Center" Swift boat OR
Boats.
*** Institute for Humane Studies $950,000 http://tinyurl.com/3w7b3
Google.com Results 2,450 for "Institute for Humane Studies" Swift boat
OR Boats.
*** National Center for Public Policy Research, Inc. $825,000
http://tinyurl.com/59wll Google.com 2,610 for "National Center for
Public Policy Research" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** Media Institute $645,000 http://tinyurl.com/6s7b4 Google.com
Results 1,200 for "Media Institute" Swift boat OR Boats.
*** Acton Institute For The Study of Religion and Liberty $565,000
http://tinyurl.com/6h98g Google.com Results 2,470 for "Acton
Institute" Swift boat OR Boats.
### Sun Myung Moon is another felony fraud conspirator using his
organized crime operation to advance his candidate who has a bilnd eye
to Moon's crimes. The WASHINGTON TIMES and UPI wireservice is Moonie
front operations. <http://tinyurl.com/6nlt9>
*** http://tinyurl.com/55jrw Results 42,600 for "Washington Times"
Swift boat OR Boats.
.

User: "Paul Mitchum"
Title: Re: Kerry an Unfortunate Son	20 Aug 2004 03:00:21 PM

james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:36:48 -0700, Paul Mitchum wrote:

james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

[..]

Perhaps you believe that Kerry's call for the banning of the book is a
sign of his winning? Perhaps you also agree that the book should be
banned?

You'll have to provide a quote of Kerry saying he wants to ban the book.

Today, Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton suggested on the online news
site Salon.com that the publisher, Regnery, should withdraw the book from
sale.

"No publisher should want to be selling books with proven falsehoods in
them, especially falsehoods that are meant to smear the military service
of an American veteran," he said.

"If I were them, I'd be ducking under my desk wondering what to do. This
is a serious problem."

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/08/20/story162747.html

Of course now you can say that it was only his campaign spokesman, not
Kerry himself.

No, what I'll say is that you haven't shown where Kerry says the book
should be banned, just that Kerry's campaign says publishers should
consider removing slander from store shelves.
You might also consider the story of 'Fortunate Son,' which you can read
about here:
<http://www.davidcogswell.com/Reviews/FortunateSonReview.html>. All of
St. Martins Press' copies of the book were burned.
--
"I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I had a choice, I'd rather go
to war." - GWB, Houston Chronicle, January 2002
.

User: "james dorfu"
Title: Re: Kerry an Unfortunate Son	20 Aug 2004 03:08:04 PM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:00:21 -0700, Paul Mitchum wrote:

james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

Of course now you can say that it was only his campaign spokesman, not
Kerry himself.

No, what I'll say is that you haven't shown where Kerry says the book
should be banned, just that Kerry's campaign says publishers should
consider removing slander from store shelves.

"My father made him an offer he could not refuse"
...............Michael Corleone...........
--
Thursday is this week's annual "Pork Chops for Islam" day.
.

User: "Paul Mitchum"
Title: Re: Kerry an Unfortunate Son	20 Aug 2004 05:54:15 PM

james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:00:21 -0700, Paul Mitchum wrote:

james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

Of course now you can say that it was only his campaign spokesman, not
Kerry himself.

No, what I'll say is that you haven't shown where Kerry says the book
should be banned, just that Kerry's campaign says publishers should
consider removing slander from store shelves.

"My father made him an offer he could not refuse"
..............Michael Corleone...........

No comment on the the story of 'Fortunate Son?' You can read about it
here:
<http://www.davidcogswell.com/Reviews/FortunateSonReview.html>
--
"I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I had a choice, I'd rather go
to war." - GWB, Houston Chronicle, January 2002
.

User: "CJT"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 02:07:10 PM

james dorfu wrote:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:36:48 -0700, Paul Mitchum wrote:

james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:55:08 -0700, Raph Bartowski wrote:

[..]

You folks keep declaring victory but it still hasn't happened. Must
be frustrating for you.

Perhaps you believe that Kerry's call for the banning of the book is a
sign of his winning? Perhaps you also agree that the book should be
banned?

You'll have to provide a quote of Kerry saying he wants to ban the book.

Today, Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton suggested on the online news
site Salon.com that the publisher, Regnery, should withdraw the book from
sale.

"No publisher should want to be selling books with proven falsehoods in
them, especially falsehoods that are meant to smear the military service
of an American veteran," he said.

"If I were them, I'd be ducking under my desk wondering what to do. This
is a serious problem."

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/08/20/story162747.html

Of course now you can say that it was only his campaign spokesman, not
Kerry himself.

As someone else already pointed out, they may be protecting or enhancing
their libel suit.
--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	21 Aug 2004 03:45:20 AM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:07:10 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:

As someone else already pointed out, they may be protecting or enhancing
their libel suit.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	21 Aug 2004 03:43:44 AM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:17:56 -0700, james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu>
wrote:

You are right.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	21 Aug 2004 03:43:20 AM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:06:17 GMT,

wrote:

the veterans

have made it clear that they do not care what Bush thinks.

User: "Walter Scott"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 01:33:01 AM

Who is asking for censorship, Ric? Debunking lies is not censorship. You
call on the press to fully cover this matter. What the Hell do you
think the New York Times and the Washington Post as well as MSNBC are
now doing? Read
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5758982/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5751284/
and then tell us about TRUTH. Tell us about the web of political
connections between the Bush Family, Carl Rove, Bush surrogates and
the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for TRUTH. You want an expose?
You're damn well getting it!
In article <FLdVc.49227$TI1.14027@attbi_s52> on Fri, 20 Aug 2004 02:
56:37 GMT, "Ric Hamiprojo" <rich@eskimo.co.in> wrote:

It is not the job of a standing President to censor free speech, nor is it
wise for a wanna-be president or his thugs to censor free speech. Bush has
made it clear that swift boat vets do not speak for him, and the veterans
have made it clear that they do not care what Bush thinks. Beyond that,
this is a matter of free speech. In fact, how will you ever know the truth
if these men are silenced without due process?

The search for truth requires the courage to accept it.

.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 01:53:40 AM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 06:33:01 +0000 (UTC),
WALTER_SCOTT@A_SPECIFIED_PLACE.NOT (Walter Scott) wrote:

Who is asking for censorship, Ric? Debunking lies is not censorship. You
call on the press to fully cover this matter. What the Hell do you
think the New York Times and the Washington Post as well as MSNBC are
now doing? Read

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5758982/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5751284/

and then tell us about TRUTH. Tell us about the web of political
connections between the Bush Family, Carl Rove, Bush surrogates and
the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for TRUTH. You want an expose?
You're damn well getting it!

In article <FLdVc.49227$TI1.14027@attbi_s52> on Fri, 20 Aug 2004 02:
56:37 GMT, "Ric Hamiprojo" <rich@eskimo.co.in> wrote:

The search for truth requires the courage to accept it.

http://www.eriposte.com/media/liars_inc/swiftboat.htm
One of the SwiftLiars got a medal beacause the bullets were flying
around that day. He didn't refuse the medal then, he didn't correct
the reports then. Either lied to the military to keep the medal or he
lied in the ads. Either way he is a liar.
5 boats went out, 5 officers on them. One came back with a hole in it
to explain.
The SwiftLiars gave their reports on the day of the incident. Kerry
towed one disabled craft home so we know they arrived at base
together. If they LIED THAT DAY, that is the lie they are stuck with.
If they TOLD THE TRUTH THAT DAY then they lied in their ads. Either
way you have liars. Look at their records first. What did they say on
the day they made their reports.
Why aren't they releasing their records?
We have established these are FELONY FRAUD LIARS. Now look at the
records of everybody else involved in this FELONY FRAUD. Look at
Merrie Spaeth whose thankfully dead husband, Tex Lezar, ran on the
same ticket that got GWB the governors mansion in Texas. This guy's
name is on a NCPA list on the internet with six known organized crime
felon's who specialize in FRAUD of the body politic. Don't know who
Spaeth is? She was a 'Monica', a whitehouse fellow, in the same
building where Nancy Reagan used to sneak off to the Lincoln bedroom
with Frank Sinatra. She also is the organizer of the first wave of
publicity for these FELONY FRAUD SWIFT BOAT ORGANIZED CRIME OPERATORS.
Demand Spaeth's records. Demand Lezar's records. Demand the
Lezar-Spaeth crime family friend's records.
There's a whole lot of records that Bob Perry is going to be
producing. Every federal and state agency will be on him like stink on
*****, making him produce records. You don't fund a CRIME OPERATION and
walk into the sunset whistling Dixie. Spaeth, and all, did a hatchet
job on McCain and robbed the republican party of his candidacy, but
they tangled with tougher meat than they know how to chew now.
Demand Bob Perry's records.
You want records. I'll release records. Read 'em and weep... Your
whole stinking organized crime network laid out so that even dumbfuk
jurors can follow without any shadow of a doubt.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Koctopus_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Killer_David_Koch.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/CSE_Organized_Crime.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_CFACT.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Seitz_Tobacco_Crimes.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Nightline.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-1993-1994.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Seitz.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Stohrer-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Hazeltine-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Heidelberg-Appeal.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Sallie_Baliunas.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Walter_Williams_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Richard_S_Lindzen.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/ADTI_Frauds_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/AdTI_Villians.htm
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Pelosi.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Becky_Norton_Dunlop_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Confronting_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Chrispeels.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Idsos.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Fred_Michel.html
.

User: "Dave Cook"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 07:45:48 AM

Psalm 110 <SwiftyLiars@Go_to_Hell.org> wrote in message news:<qs7bi05hiaa7jiv411sqm4907fmnmt9gr4@4ax.com>...

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 06:33:01 +0000 (UTC),
WALTER_SCOTT@A_SPECIFIED_PLACE.NOT (Walter Scott) wrote:

Who is asking for censorship, Ric? Debunking lies is not censorship. You
call on the press to fully cover this matter. What the Hell do you
think the New York Times and the Washington Post as well as MSNBC are
now doing? Read

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5758982/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5751284/

and then tell us about TRUTH. Tell us about the web of political
connections between the Bush Family, Carl Rove, Bush surrogates and
the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for TRUTH. You want an expose?
You're damn well getting it!

In article <FLdVc.49227$TI1.14027@attbi_s52> on Fri, 20 Aug 2004 02:
56:37 GMT, "Ric Hamiprojo" <rich@eskimo.co.in> wrote:

The search for truth requires the courage to accept it.

Kerry talked about being across the Cambodian border in December, when
it was
really January, but the point about Cambodia is not "when". Senator
Kerry is claiming that he ferried CIA operatives into Cambodia on a
clandestine basis. It is another unbelievable Kerry claim. As late as
June 2004, in a LA Times interview, Kerry said: 'I celebrated
Christmas Eve on the border of Cambodia.' And he added that on a later
mission, 'I went into Cambodia with the CIA.'The statement, "I went
into Cambodia with the CIA." shows that truth is missing in some of
Kerry's Vietnam stories. Of course, the clincher is that none of
Kerry's crew supports his Cambodia travel,and while I don't have a
record of where and when, I read that Kerry admitted that it never
happened.

In regards to the Swift Boat action that lead to the Bronze Stars,
there was one thing I heard yesterday that might explain why Rassmann
thought he was under fire. One of the Swiftboat Veterans said
yesterday on the radio that when the Number 3 boat hit the underwater
mine, the other four boats opened fire, thinking the mine was the
beginning of an ambush, so they swept the banks of the river with
their own fire until they realized they were not receiving any return
fire, and then they stopped firing.
50's make a hell of a racket. Rassmann may have thought that the Swift
boat fire was actually enemy fire. I think it would be pretty hard to
tell one from the other while he was trying not to drown and was going
under water to avoid what he thought was enemy fire. Kerry probably
also remembers guns firing while he was busy picking up Rassmann. No
crew, nor boats other than the one that hit the mine, sustained any
damage.

5 boats went out, 5 officers on them. One came back with a hole in it
to explain.

The SwiftLiars gave their reports on the day of the incident. Kerry
towed one disabled craft home so we know they arrived at base
together. If they LIED THAT DAY, that is the lie they are stuck with.
If they TOLD THE TRUTH THAT DAY then they lied in their ads. Either
way you have liars. Look at their records first. What did they say on
the day they made their reports.

Why aren't they releasing their records?

We have established these are FELONY FRAUD LIARS. Now look at the
records of everybody else involved in this FELONY FRAUD. Look at
Merrie Spaeth whose thankfully dead husband, Tex Lezar, ran on the
same ticket that got GWB the governors mansion in Texas. This guy's
name is on a NCPA list on the internet with six known organized crime
felon's who specialize in FRAUD of the body politic. Don't know who
Spaeth is? She was a 'Monica', a whitehouse fellow, in the same
building where Nancy Reagan used to sneak off to the Lincoln bedroom
with Frank Sinatra. She also is the organizer of the first wave of
publicity for these FELONY FRAUD SWIFT BOAT ORGANIZED CRIME OPERATORS.

Demand Spaeth's records. Demand Lezar's records. Demand the
Lezar-Spaeth crime family friend's records.

There's a whole lot of records that Bob Perry is going to be
producing. Every federal and state agency will be on him like stink on
*****, making him produce records. You don't fund a CRIME OPERATION and
walk into the sunset whistling Dixie. Spaeth, and all, did a hatchet
job on McCain and robbed the republican party of his candidacy, but
they tangled with tougher meat than they know how to chew now.

Demand Bob Perry's records.

You want records. I'll release records. Read 'em and weep... Your
whole stinking organized crime network laid out so that even dumbfuk
jurors can follow without any shadow of a doubt.

http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Koctopus_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Killer_David_Koch.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/CSE_Organized_Crime.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_CFACT.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Seitz_Tobacco_Crimes.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Nightline.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-1993-1994.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Seitz.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Stohrer-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Hazeltine-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Heidelberg-Appeal.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Sallie_Baliunas.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Walter_Williams_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Richard_S_Lindzen.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/ADTI_Frauds_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/AdTI_Villians.htm
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Pelosi.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Becky_Norton_Dunlop_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Confronting_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Chrispeels.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Idsos.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Fred_Michel.html

User: "Ric Hamiprojo"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 07:04:42 PM

Who is asking for censorship, Ric? Debunking lies is not censorship. You
call on the press to fully cover this matter. What the Hell do you
think the New York Times and the Washington Post as well as MSNBC are
and then tell us about TRUTH. Tell us about the web of political
connections between the Bush Family, Carl Rove, Bush surrogates and
the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for TRUTH. You want an expose?

This extremism is exactly the problem. Why write stories about "people who
are indirectly connected to people who might be connected to Bush"? The
NYT/Post/MSNBC have access to 250 people who are *directly* connected to
John Kerry, many of whom campaigned for John Kerry. Looking for bogeymen in
the shadows when the evidence is staring you in the face is *not* an expose;
it's a coverup.
In fact, all of these news outlets have access to John Kerry himself. There
is no need to invent and insinuate facts, when the reporters can simply ask
John Kerry. Why have the Post and Times not asked John Kerry directly --
was he in Cambodia or not? Did he write the report which claims he was
under enemy fire? Journalism is not brain surgery. This simply requires an
enterprising journalist to demand straight answers from John Kerry, and then
reserach the record thoroughly. Give John Kerry an opportunity to defend
his statements on the congressional record. This is what I mean by thorough
journalism. You may hate Bush, but you are not served by a newspaper which
refuses to pursue the full truth and ask the necessary and direct questions.
Hiding from the facts, and attempting to turn a blind eye is not something
which is part of your personality. You hate corruption and coverup,
regardless of which side it comes from.
.

User: "Walter Scott"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	21 Aug 2004 12:52:26 PM

Let's have credible cites and quotes connecting these 250 -- *ALL* of
them -- to the events at issue, as in the events that brought Thurlow
and Kerry their Bronze Star. All 250 are direct witnesses to the event
in question of March 13, 1969? If you can't document such *direct*
association with Kerry, then *I* can't regard your comments aa anything
more than political *****!
In article <ukwVc.10272$9d6.2951@attbi_s54> on Sat, 21 Aug 2004 00:
04:42 GMT, "Ric Hamiprojo" <rich@eskimo.co.in> wrote:

The NYT/Post/MSNBC have access to 250 people who are *directly*
connected to John Kerry, many of whom campaigned for John Kerry.
Looking for bogeymen in the shadows when the evidence is staring you
in the face is *not* an expose; it's a coverup.

The search for truth requires the courage to accept it.

.

User: "Jim"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	22 Aug 2004 05:04:09 AM

"Walter Scott" <WALTER_SCOTT@A_SPECIFIED_PLACE.NOT> wrote in message
news:cg824o$s1h$2@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...

Must be that incredible liebral logic at work.
over 250 decorated veterans say Kerry is full of *****
and Walter here says well they're all lying and
my man Kerry is telling the truth.
One question Walter, who stands to gain more
from lying about their REAL service.
Gee it might be someone who made the mistake
of making it the center and ONLY issue of his
convention acceptance appearance!
Jim
--
During a 1997 debate on CNN's Crossfire
Kerry argued, "We know we can't count on the French. We
know we can't count of the Russians. We know that Iraq is a danger to the
United States and we reserve the right to take pre-emptive action whenever
we
feel it's in our national interest."
--
The hard-line, anti-American Tehran Times published the entire text of the
seven-paragraph e-mail under a triumphant headline announcing that Kerry
pledged to "repair damage if he wins election." By claiming that the Kerry
campaign had sent the message directly to an Iranian news agency in Tehran,
the paper indicated that the e-mail was a demonstration of Kerry's support
for a murderous regime that even today tops the State Department's list of
supporters of international terrorism.
According to dissident Ayatollah Mehdi Haeri, who fled Iran for Germany
after being held for four years in a regime prison, Iran's hard-line clerics
"fear President Bush." In an interview with Insight, Haeri says that
President Bush's messages of support to pro-democracy forces inside Iran and
his insistence that the Iranian regime abandon its nuclear-weapons program
"have given these people the shivers. They think that if Bush is re-elected,
they'll be gone. That's why they want to see Kerry elected."
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	22 Aug 2004 03:20:36 PM

"Jim" <KerrycallsVeteransMurderers@socialist.com> wrote in message news:<tc_Vc.14866$Qa4.2757@twister.socal.rr.com>...

"Walter Scott" <WALTER_SCOTT@A_SPECIFIED_PLACE.NOT> wrote in message
news:cg824o$s1h$2@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...

If you're willing to sacrifice your life and money for Bushie fascists
then go for it.

Jim

--
During a 1997 debate on CNN's Crossfire
Kerry argued, "We know we can't count on the French. We
know we can't count of the Russians. We know that Iraq is a danger to the
United States and we reserve the right to take pre-emptive action whenever
we
feel it's in our national interest."

--
The hard-line, anti-American Tehran Times published the entire text of the
seven-paragraph e-mail under a triumphant headline announcing that Kerry
pledged to "repair damage if he wins election." By claiming that the Kerry
campaign had sent the message directly to an Iranian news agency in Tehran,
the paper indicated that the e-mail was a demonstration of Kerry's support
for a murderous regime that even today tops the State Department's list of
supporters of international terrorism.

According to dissident Ayatollah Mehdi Haeri, who fled Iran for Germany
after being held for four years in a regime prison, Iran's hard-line clerics
"fear President Bush." In an interview with Insight, Haeri says that
President Bush's messages of support to pro-democracy forces inside Iran and
his insistence that the Iranian regime abandon its nuclear-weapons program
"have given these people the shivers. They think that if Bush is re-elected,
they'll be gone. That's why they want to see Kerry elected."

User: "james dorfu"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 07:29:29 PM

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 00:04:42 +0000, Ric Hamiprojo wrote:

In fact, all of these news outlets have access to John Kerry himself. There
is no need to invent and insinuate facts, when the reporters can simply ask
John Kerry. Why have the Post and Times not asked John Kerry directly --
was he in Cambodia or not?

Precisely. It's not like they are unable to locate him. In fact they
travel with him. And yet, silence.
--
Thursday is this week's annual "Pork Chops for Islam" day.
.

User: "vinpo"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 07:38:51 PM

james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote in message
news:mPadnaufebvxCrvcRVn-uw@harbornet.com...

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 00:04:42 +0000, Ric Hamiprojo wrote:

In fact, all of these news outlets have access to John Kerry himself.

There

is no need to invent and insinuate facts, when the reporters can simply

ask

John Kerry. Why have the Post and Times not asked John Kerry

directly --

was he in Cambodia or not?

Precisely. It's not like they are unable to locate him. In fact they
travel with him. And yet, silence.

despite the NYT's sycophantic kerry-stance (tm), even they have admitted
that kerry was "mistaken" about the cambodia claim that was "seared" into
his memory
iirc, they call it a mistake, not a lie, but they do concede it is erroneous
whit

--
Thursday is this week's annual "Pork Chops for Islam" day.

User: "Walter Scott"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	21 Aug 2004 12:52:28 PM

Yes; let's have Kerry respond to innuendo and lies, thereby wasting
precious resources and time while his opponent gains momentum.
That's a tired old ploy.....
In article <ukwVc.10272$9d6.2951@attbi_s54> on Sat, 21 Aug 2004 00:
04:42 GMT, "Ric Hamiprojo" <rich@eskimo.co.in> wrote:

The search for truth requires the courage to accept it.

.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	21 Aug 2004 03:42:38 AM

On 20 Aug 2004 05:45:48 -0700,

(Dave Cook) wrote:

In regards to the Swift Boat action that lead to the Bronze Stars,
there was one thing I heard yesterday that might explain why Rassmann
thought he was under fire. One of the Swiftboat Veterans said
yesterday on the radio that when the Number 3 boat hit the underwater
mine, the other four boats opened fire, thinking the mine was the
beginning of an ambush, so they swept the banks of the river with
their own fire until they realized they were not receiving any return
fire, and then they stopped firing.

User: "Psalm 110"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 12:37:13 AM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 00:18:09 +0000 (UTC),
WALTER_SCOTT@A_SPECIFIED_PLACE.NOT (Walter Scott) wrote:

Are you willing, James, to have President Bush explain why he does not
openly join Thurlow's group in their campaign yet will not renounce or
denounce their ads? Will you have Thurlow explain why he did not
recall, until the Post's FOIA request regarding the incident at issue,
that the text of his commendation mentioned enemy fire or the details
of how he "lost" his commendation some years ago and, if if he did,
forgot that it mentioned enemy fire then testified in deposition that
there was no enemy fire without reconciling the text of the
commendation? Will you ask Thurlow's veterans group to explain what,
if any, their relationship is to a Texas benefactor who is a prominent
Republican? If you're so willing to have the facts displayed before
the public at large and to be fair, where was your interest in the
latter early this year ("Re: Alex Does Her Monica for Kerry") when the
***** assertion of Kerry having an affair with Alexandra Polier
broke? Why isn't this just another instance of your promulgating
similar crap?

References:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.20.30.10.849618%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.14.15.31.12.924674%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.19.31.45.501518%40yahoo.com&output=gplain

One of the SwiftLiars got a medal beacause the bullets were flying
around that day. He didn't refuse the medal then, he didn't correct
the reports then. Either lied to the military to keep the medal or he
lied in the ads. Either way he is a liar.
5 boats went out, 5 officers on them. One came back with a hole in it
to explain.
The SwiftLiars gave their reports on the day of the incident. Kerry
towed one disabled craft home so we know they arrived at base
together. If they LIED THAT DAY, that is the lie they are stuck with.
If they TOLD THE TRUTH THAT DAY then they lied in their ads. Either
way you have liars. Look at their records first. What did they say on
the day they made their reports.
Why aren't they releasing their records?
We have established these are FELONY FRAUD LIARS. Now look at the
records of everybody else involved in this FELONY FRAUD. Look at
Merrie Spaeth whose thankfully dead husband, Tex Lezar, ran on the
same ticket that got GWB the governors mansion in Texas. This guy's
name is on a NCPA list on the internet with six known organized crime
felon's who specialize in FRAUD of the body politic. Don't know who
Spaeth is? She was a 'Monica', a whitehouse fellow, in the same
building where Nancy Reagan used to sneak off to the Lincoln bedroom
with Frank Sinatra. She also is the organizer of the first wave of
publicity for these FELONY FRAUD SWIFT BOAT ORGANIZED CRIME OPERATORS.
Demand Spaeth's records. Demand Lezar's records. Demand the
Lezar-Spaeth crime family friend's records.
There's a whole lot of records that Bob Perry is going to be
producing. Every federal and state agency will be on him like stink on
*****, making him produce records. You don't fund a CRIME OPERATION and
walk into the sunset whistling Dixie. Spaeth, and all, did a hatchet
job on McCain and robbed the republican party of his candidacy, but
they tangled with tougher meat than they know how to chew now.
Demand Bob Perry's records.
You want records. I'll release records. Read 'em and weep... Your
whole stinking organized crime network laid out so that even dumbfuk
jurors can follow without any shadow of a doubt.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Koctopus_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Killer_David_Koch.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/CSE_Organized_Crime.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_CFACT.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Seitz_Tobacco_Crimes.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Nightline.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-1993-1994.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Seitz.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Stohrer-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Hazeltine-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Heidelberg-Appeal.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Sallie_Baliunas.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Walter_Williams_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Richard_S_Lindzen.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/ADTI_Frauds_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/AdTI_Villians.htm
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Pelosi.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Becky_Norton_Dunlop_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Confronting_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Chrispeels.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Idsos.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Fred_Michel.html
.

User: "james dorfu"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	19 Aug 2004 08:07:21 PM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 00:18:09 +0000, Walter Scott wrote:

Are you willing, James, to have President Bush explain why he does not
openly join Thurlow's group in their campaign yet will not renounce or
denounce their ads?

Sure. I'd advise him to encourage Kerry to step forward and answer in
detail the questions that have been raised about Kerry's medals, wounds,
and tales, including the one about "Christmas in Cambodia".

.....................Will you have Thurlow explain why he did not
recall, until the Post's FOIA request regarding the incident at issue,
that the text of his commendation mentioned enemy fire or the details
of how he "lost" his commendation some years ago and, if if he did,
forgot that it mentioned enemy fire then testified in deposition that
there was no enemy fire without reconciling the text of the
commendation?

Sure. More importantly, I'd also include encourage the Dem candidate to
stand and answer for his tales. His argument of: "Shut Up!!!" is not
sufficient explanation.

.........Will you ask Thurlow's veterans group to explain what,
if any, their relationship is to a Texas benefactor who is a prominent
Republican?

I think they ought answer all such questions, as the media puts those
questions to them. Further, I encourage the media to immediately do their
job, and ask those questions. Further still, I expect the media to explore
the finances of Kerry's tiny band of supporters from the swift boaters.
And now again, are you afraid to have the media ask Kerry who wrote the
report?
--
Thursday is this week's annual "Pork Chops for Islam" day.
.

User: "Walter Scott"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 01:32:57 AM

I'm not afraid of seeing Kerry exposed. Truth be told: I think little
of him. But I think no more of Bush. They're both pathetic! I think
Kerry should answer for being Ken of Ken & Barbie fame -- Botox and
all. I think Kerry should answer for being a policy wonk and pandering
with the best of the panderers. I think Kerry should demonstrate, not
just claim, that he will do a better job than Bush in office.
Otherwise, I don't see much difference between Kerry and Bush. I also
think that his surrogates should abandon the AWOL issue.
Now, with the above written in response to your question, James, when
will YOU answer for YOUR distortions and distractions?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.20.30.10.849618%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.14.15.31.12.924674%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.19.31.45.501518%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
In article <pan.2004.08.20.01.07.18.366048@edu.nospam.msu> on Thu, 19
Aug 2004 18:07:21 -0700, james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

And now again, are you afraid to have the media ask Kerry who wrote the
report?

The search for truth requires the courage to accept it.

.

User: "james dorfu"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 08:42:02 AM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 06:32:57 +0000, Walter Scott wrote:

If you wish the answer to a specific question, you ought first learn how
to ask a specific question. Hint: posting a url is not asking a specific
question.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.20.30.10.849618%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.14.15.31.12.924674%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.19.31.45.501518%40yahoo.com&output=gplain

In article <pan.2004.08.20.01.07.18.366048@edu.nospam.msu> on Thu, 19
Aug 2004 18:07:21 -0700, james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

And now again, are you afraid to have the media ask Kerry who wrote the
report?

The search for truth requires the courage to accept it.

--
Thursday is this week's annual "Pork Chops for Islam" day.
.

User: "Walter Scott"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 10:00:12 AM

A specific question has been asked in several instances, James. Yet,
you avoid answering. Now, with the above written in response to your
false admonition, James, when will YOU answer for YOUR distortions and
distractions? Do you believe the crap you were spreading back in
February, as illustrated at the URLs below?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.20.30.10.849618%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.14.15.31.12.924674%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.19.31.45.501518%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
It's not like the content at these URLs don't make clear what you were
doing and what you at least SEEMED to PURPORT to believe in mid-February.
In article <pan.2004.08.20.13.41.59.51359@edu.nospam.msu> on Fri, 20
Aug 2004 06:42:02 -0700, james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

Now, with the above written in response to your question, James, when
will YOU answer for YOUR distortions and distractions?

If you wish the answer to a specific question, you ought first learn how
to ask a specific question. Hint: posting a url is not asking a specific
question.

The search for truth requires the courage to accept it.

.

User: "james dorfu"
Title: Re: Smearboat Liars Caught In Own Lies, According to Navy Records	20 Aug 2004 10:11:26 AM

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:00:12 +0000, Walter Scott wrote:

If there are specific statements of mine that you believe to be "crap",
please state which specific statements those are.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.20.30.10.849618%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.14.15.31.12.924674%40yahoo.com&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2004.02.16.19.31.45.501518%40yahoo.com&output=gplain

It's not like the content at these URLs don't make clear what you were
doing and what you at least SEEMED to PURPORT to believe in
mid-February.

If it is so clear what I "at least SEEMED to PURPORT to believe in
mid-February", then you ought have absolutely no problem specifically
stating what it is that you are talking about.

In article <pan.2004.08.20.13.41.59.51359@edu.nospam.msu> on Fri, 20 Aug
2004 06:42:02 -0700, james dorfu <dorf@edu.nospam.msu> wrote:

Now, with the above written in response to your question, James, when
will YOU answer for YOUR dis