| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"quibbler" |
| Date: |
08 Mar 2005 04:54:13 PM |
| Object: |
Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
--
"Faith, indeed, has up to the present not been
able to move real mountains ... But it can put
mountains where there are none." -- Nietzsche
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
09 Mar 2005 12:59:41 AM |
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In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
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| User: "wcb" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
09 Mar 2005 02:49:24 AM |
|
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johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister beetles and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been busy for
quite some time here.
--
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
10 Mar 2005 12:40:22 AM |
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In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister beetles and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been busy for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
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| User: "Godfrey" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
10 Mar 2005 01:25:57 AM |
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On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister beetles and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been busy for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Let's just say the poisonous mushrooms don't get eaten as often- and
nobody bothers a poisonous snake twice...
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
.
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| User: "wcb" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
10 Mar 2005 06:58:41 AM |
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Godfrey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and
you get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister beetles
and others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been busy
for quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Let's just say the poisonous mushrooms don't get eaten as often- and
nobody bothers a poisonous snake twice...
It is a strategy in an impersonal way.
And not always a good one.
For example, nonpoisonous plants that are
god to eat are now very common thanks to being
widely spread by humans. Often, we root up and destroy
the poisonous ones.
--
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Godfrey" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
10 Mar 2005 02:51:29 PM |
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On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:58:41 -0600, wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com>
wrote:
Godfrey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and
you get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister beetles
and others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been busy
for quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Let's just say the poisonous mushrooms don't get eaten as often- and
nobody bothers a poisonous snake twice...
It is a strategy in an impersonal way.
And not always a good one.
For example, nonpoisonous plants that are
god to eat are now very common thanks to being
widely spread by humans. Often, we root up and destroy
the poisonous ones.
Understood. In your example, non-poisonous plants would be "fittest"
in an environment populated by humans. The human element
notwithstanding, however, evolution is devoid of strategy, impersonal
or otherwise. It is simply what happens.
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
11 Mar 2005 12:09:33 AM |
|
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In article <octv215dbv0133aq56go9utqdadlv06hmc@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister beetles
and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been busy
for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Oh, no. The snakes that had the mutation that led to venom had a
survival advantage over those who didn't. It made them better at
catching prey and defending themselves against animals that preyed on
them. the same for many other species. No designer involved. That's the
way that evolution turned out.
Let's just say the poisonous mushrooms don't get eaten as often- and
nobody bothers a poisonous snake twice...
True.
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
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| User: "Godfrey" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
12 Mar 2005 02:32:36 AM |
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On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:09:33 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <octv215dbv0133aq56go9utqdadlv06hmc@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister beetles
and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been busy
for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Oh, no. The snakes that had the mutation that led to venom had a
survival advantage over those who didn't. It made them better at
catching prey and defending themselves against animals that preyed on
them. the same for many other species. No designer involved. That's the
way that evolution turned out.
Okay, just checking. I thought you were slipping in your old age. :-)
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
13 Mar 2005 02:23:34 AM |
|
|
In article <hca531lfarmv6raqap6tv88s21n09f9fhk@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:09:33 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <octv215dbv0133aq56go9utqdadlv06hmc@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and
you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister
beetles
and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been
busy
for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Oh, no. The snakes that had the mutation that led to venom had a
survival advantage over those who didn't. It made them better at
catching prey and defending themselves against animals that preyed on
them. the same for many other species. No designer involved. That's the
way that evolution turned out.
Okay, just checking. I thought you were slipping in your old age. :-)
Nah. I was anthropomorphizing a bit. Probably should have said
'...evolving means of offense and defense...'
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
12 Mar 2005 01:59:07 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:32:36 GMT, Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:09:33 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <octv215dbv0133aq56go9utqdadlv06hmc@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister beetles
and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been busy
for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Oh, no. The snakes that had the mutation that led to venom had a
survival advantage over those who didn't. It made them better at
catching prey and defending themselves against animals that preyed on
them. the same for many other species. No designer involved. That's the
way that evolution turned out.
Okay, just checking. I thought you were slipping in your old age. :-)
heheheh...
/john banging his cane on the floor
"You young whippersnapper...."
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
13 Mar 2005 02:17:05 AM |
|
|
In article <afi631lis0o35opbper6r0tv2sqbrgcrjk@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:32:36 GMT, Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:09:33 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <octv215dbv0133aq56go9utqdadlv06hmc@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and
you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister
beetles
and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been
busy
for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Oh, no. The snakes that had the mutation that led to venom had a
survival advantage over those who didn't. It made them better at
catching prey and defending themselves against animals that preyed on
them. the same for many other species. No designer involved. That's the
way that evolution turned out.
Okay, just checking. I thought you were slipping in your old age. :-)
heheheh...
/john banging his cane on the floor
"You young whippersnapper...."
Dang kids these days! :-)
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
14 Mar 2005 10:22:48 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 00:17:05 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <afi631lis0o35opbper6r0tv2sqbrgcrjk@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:32:36 GMT, Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:09:33 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <octv215dbv0133aq56go9utqdadlv06hmc@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and
you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister
beetles
and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been
busy
for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Oh, no. The snakes that had the mutation that led to venom had a
survival advantage over those who didn't. It made them better at
catching prey and defending themselves against animals that preyed on
them. the same for many other species. No designer involved. That's the
way that evolution turned out.
Okay, just checking. I thought you were slipping in your old age. :-)
heheheh...
/john banging his cane on the floor
"You young whippersnapper...."
Dang kids these days! :-)
Moi? :)))))))))))))))
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
15 Mar 2005 12:18:52 AM |
|
|
In article <6ieb31pq7bo8hpogsipl94n22l73c4793v@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 00:17:05 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <afi631lis0o35opbper6r0tv2sqbrgcrjk@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:32:36 GMT, Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:09:33 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <octv215dbv0133aq56go9utqdadlv06hmc@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there,
and
you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister
beetles
and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been
busy
for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for
billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Oh, no. The snakes that had the mutation that led to venom had a
survival advantage over those who didn't. It made them better at
catching prey and defending themselves against animals that preyed on
them. the same for many other species. No designer involved. That's the
way that evolution turned out.
Okay, just checking. I thought you were slipping in your old age. :-)
heheheh...
/john banging his cane on the floor
"You young whippersnapper...."
Dang kids these days! :-)
Moi? :)))))))))))))))
Nah. You're an old kid, like me. :-)))))
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
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| User: "Godfrey" |
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| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
13 Mar 2005 10:48:48 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 00:17:05 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <afi631lis0o35opbper6r0tv2sqbrgcrjk@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:32:36 GMT, Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:09:33 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <octv215dbv0133aq56go9utqdadlv06hmc@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there, and
you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister
beetles
and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been
busy
for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Oh, no. The snakes that had the mutation that led to venom had a
survival advantage over those who didn't. It made them better at
catching prey and defending themselves against animals that preyed on
them. the same for many other species. No designer involved. That's the
way that evolution turned out.
Okay, just checking. I thought you were slipping in your old age. :-)
heheheh...
/john banging his cane on the floor
"You young whippersnapper...."
Dang kids these days! :-)
Pipe down, Pops, afer I run off'th yer good set a teeth agin...
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
15 Mar 2005 12:20:58 AM |
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In article <7r5a31lun53d4mq27nrr0kf4dbd04uevah@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 00:17:05 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <afi631lis0o35opbper6r0tv2sqbrgcrjk@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:32:36 GMT, Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:09:33 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <octv215dbv0133aq56go9utqdadlv06hmc@4ax.com>,
Godfrey <no@address.provided> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:40:22 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <422eb88b$0$170$16895aa@news.airnews.net>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <MPG.1c97db033abad71f989697@news.individual.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Actually most were proteins and enzymes needed for the snake's
metabolism. Change an amino acid here, change another one there,
and
you
get a reptile with a WMD. Evolution is so cool!
Its not just snakes. Insects have poisons, wasps, bees, blister
beetles
and
others. Scorpions, spiders, jellyfish, cone shells, many octopuses,
toads and frogs, scorpion fish and others.
Not to mention plants and mushrooms that are poisonous.
Poisons are so common and basic its obvious that evolution has been
busy
for
quite some time here.
Of course. The article only dealt with snakes, but all across nature
life has been developing offensive and defensive strategies for
billions
of years.
Er, well... I'd hardly call it a "strategy". Are you turning ID on
us, John? Next you'll start believing in reality TV! :-)
Oh, no. The snakes that had the mutation that led to venom had a
survival advantage over those who didn't. It made them better at
catching prey and defending themselves against animals that preyed on
them. the same for many other species. No designer involved. That's the
way that evolution turned out.
Okay, just checking. I thought you were slipping in your old age. :-)
heheheh...
/john banging his cane on the floor
"You young whippersnapper...."
Dang kids these days! :-)
Pipe down, Pops, afer I run off'th yer good set a teeth agin...
Look out, youngster, or I'll wap you upside your head with my walker!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
08 Mar 2005 08:30:23 PM |
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On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:54:13 -0700, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Yep. The saliva of *all* snakes, including "harmless" ones, is mildly
toxic. However, in the vast majority of cases, it produces no effect
in humans beyond a mild stinging or burning sensation.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
08 Mar 2005 09:47:44 PM |
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"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:pvns21h4ajeort5e8boa2oehl3dcje7o2e@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:54:13 -0700, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Yep. The saliva of *all* snakes, including "harmless" ones, is mildly
toxic. However, in the vast majority of cases, it produces no effect
in humans beyond a mild stinging or burning sensation.
Much like Duke's posts.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
12 Mar 2005 02:14:55 PM |
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Denis Loubet wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:pvns21h4ajeort5e8boa2oehl3dcje7o2e@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:54:13 -0700, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Yep. The saliva of *all* snakes, including "harmless" ones, is
mildly
toxic. However, in the vast majority of cases, it produces no
effect
in humans beyond a mild stinging or burning sensation.
Much like Duke's posts.
Yours and John's messages taken in sequence I nominate for atheist
quote of the month! Any seconders?
Budikka
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
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| Title: AQOTM nomination (was - Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
12 Mar 2005 09:52:32 PM |
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:55 -0600, Budikka666 wrote
(in article <1110658495.856725.150520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>):
Denis Loubet wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:pvns21h4ajeort5e8boa2oehl3dcje7o2e@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:54:13 -0700, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Yep. The saliva of *all* snakes, including "harmless" ones, is
mildly
toxic. However, in the vast majority of cases, it produces no
effect
in humans beyond a mild stinging or burning sensation.
Much like Duke's posts.
Yours and John's messages taken in sequence I nominate for atheist
quote of the month! Any seconders?
It would help (Nemo especially) to change the title so people can see that a
nomination is being made.
But on that note I second it.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
łNo gods were physically harmed during the making of this post. However
nothing was in the contract about emotional or psychological harm.˛
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: AQOTM nomination (Hey, Nemo, this nomination is seconded) |
13 Mar 2005 07:01:19 PM |
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:52:32 -0600, Harry F. Leopold wrote
(in article <0001HW.BE591520005068ACF02845B0@news.central.cox.net>):
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:55 -0600, Budikka666 wrote
(in article <1110658495.856725.150520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>):
Denis Loubet wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:pvns21h4ajeort5e8boa2oehl3dcje7o2e@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:54:13 -0700, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Yep. The saliva of *all* snakes, including "harmless" ones, is
mildly
toxic. However, in the vast majority of cases, it produces no
effect
in humans beyond a mild stinging or burning sensation.
Much like Duke's posts.
Yours and John's messages taken in sequence I nominate for atheist
quote of the month! Any seconders?
It would help (Nemo especially) to change the title so people can see that a
nomination is being made.
But on that note I second it.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
"The space time you are trying to reach has been disconnected..." Stony
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: AQOTM nomination (Hey, Nemo, this nomination is seconded) |
16 Mar 2005 07:37:30 PM |
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In article <0001HW.BE5A3E7F0081776AF02845B0@news.central.cox.net>,
Harry F. Leopold <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:52:32 -0600, Harry F. Leopold wrote
(in article <0001HW.BE591520005068ACF02845B0@news.central.cox.net>):
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:55 -0600, Budikka666 wrote
(in article <1110658495.856725.150520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>):
Denis Loubet wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:pvns21h4ajeort5e8boa2oehl3dcje7o2e@4ax.com...
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:54:13 -0700, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Yep. The saliva of *all* snakes, including "harmless" ones, is
mildly
toxic. However, in the vast majority of cases, it produces no
effect
in humans beyond a mild stinging or burning sensation.
Much like Duke's posts.
Yours and John's messages taken in sequence I nominate for atheist
quote of the month! Any seconders?
It would help (Nemo especially) to change the title so people can see that
a
nomination is being made.
But on that note I second it.
Recorded.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
08 Mar 2005 05:21:45 PM |
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On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:54:13 -0700, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Yep, that all is after all what separates you from the snakes.
duke
*****
Acts 2
38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every
one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the
forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive
the gift of the Holy Spirit".
*****
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: Re: Snake evolution bites Genesis god in the ***** (again) |
12 Mar 2005 02:13:17 PM |
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quibbler wrote:
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050228/full/050228-5.html
It looks like it was easy for harmless proteins to be slightly
tweaked via evolution, so that they could become potent toxins.
Good post, Quibbler! More evidence for evolution, and a powerful
refutation of the theist pretence of a benign god. Why would a god of
love even think of designing organisms like this?
Obviously from an evolutionary point of view, snakes needed powerful
toxins to rapidly disable the relatively sluggish metabolism of their
prey back then. As mammals became more common over the last 60-70
million years, the snake toxins proved even more powerful in the higher
metabolism of this new class of prey. This is why snakes are so deadly
to us.
But theists cannot offer any explanation at all as to why a god would
claim that we have dominion over animals when it is quite plainly not
true. Even organisms as "puny" as spiders, bacteria, and viruses are
deadly. We have no real dominion over anything!
If there actually had been a god, and we actually were his chosen ones,
and this god were truly a god of love, there would be no spider or
snake that could harm us. If there were actually a benign, loving god,
nature would be a spectacular and beautiful place that would nurture us
and instill in us a love of it, or each other and of the god who could
have created such a joy.
In reality, we have a spectacular, often beautiful, but all-too-often
dangerous and deadly nature, as St. Stephen's tsunami proved. We have
a nature which teaches us only that the strong prey on the weak, the
infirm, the sick, the young, and the old, and which both Earth and
space can turn against us and wipe us out on a whim. This bespeaks no
benign creator.
Budikka
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