| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Words of Truth" |
| Date: |
10 Dec 2004 08:10:42 PM |
| Object: |
Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
VATICAN CITY, Vatican, Nov. 19, 2004 (CNA) - In an interview published
in Italian newspaper "La Reppublica" today, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,
prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said that
"a society in which God is completely absent self-destructs," and
talked about the political, legal and cultural consequences of the
marginalization of God from public life, and those of the loss of the
meaning of human sexuality and the family.
Pointing to the example of a Protestant pastor in Sweden "who had
preached about homosexuality, based on a line from Scriptures, and
went to jail for one month," the Cardinal indicated that "there is an
aggressive secular ideology," a distorted "laicism," which no longer
"opens up spaces of freedom for all," but rather imposes itself
through politics.
This ideological laicism "does not give public space to the Catholic
or Christian vision, which runs the risk of becoming something purely
private and thus disfigured."
Therefore he said "we must defend religious freedom against the
imposition of an ideology which is presented as if it were the only
voice of rationality, when it is only the expression of a 'certain'
rationalism."
Cardinal Ratzinger pointed out that a "just laicism," on the other
hand, " is religious freedom; the State does not impose religion but
it gives space to religions with a responsibility toward civil
society, and therefore it allows these religions to be factors in
building up society."
He said that the true essence of Christianity is "a history of love
between God and men. If this is understood in the language of our
times, the rest just follows."
In modern society however, God "has been put on the sidelines. In
political life, it seems almost indecent to speak of God, as if it
were an attack on the freedom of those who do not believe."
He said that the sidelining of God can be seen in the worlds of
politics, of business and the economy, of private life. "To me," said
the cardinal, "it seems necessary to rediscover, and the energy to do
so exists, that even the political and economic spheres need moral
responsibility, a responsibility that is born in man's heart and, in
the end, has to do with the presence or absence of God."
"A society in which God is completely absent self-destructs. We saw
this in the great totalitarian regimes of the last century."
Sexual ethics and law
Asked about the gap that had opened up between the Magisterium and the
faithful following the publication of Pope Paul VI's encyclical
"Humanae Vitae," which definitively affirmed the Church's ban on
artificial contraception, the prefect of the CDF said that "it is
clear that we must continue to reflect," and indicated that we must
look towards the person-centered vision of the relationship between
man and woman developed by Pope John Paul II.
"The pill," said Cardinal Ratzinger "has changed the vision of
sexuality, the human being and the body itself. Sexuality has been
separated from fecundity and in this way it has profoundly changed the
concept of the human life.
He explained that "the sexual act has lost its purpose and finality
which before was clear and specific, so that all forms of sexuality
have become equivalent. Above all…the equalization between
homosexuality and heterosexuality."
On the question of the Church's position on homosexuality, Card.
Ratzinger said that "above all, we must have great respect for these
people who also suffer and who want to find their own way of correct
living. On the other hand, to create a legal form of a kind of
homosexual marriage, in reality, does not help these people."
He said that the law presented for debate by the Spanish government
which would completely legalize homosexual marriage "is destructive to
the family and society, because "the law creates morality or a moral
form, since people habitually think that what the law affirms is
morally allowed."
"If we judge this union to be more or less equivalent to marriage," he
posited, " we have a society that no longer recognizes either the
specific nature of the family, nor its fundamental character, that is
to say, the nature of man and woman which is to create continuity -
not only in a biological sense - for humanity."
The Cardinal said that "the Spanish decision does not provide a real
benefit" to homosexuals, "since in this way we are destroying the
fundamental elements of an order of law."
He stated further that even institutionalization and legal recognition
of civil unions between two members of the same sex, "whether the
lawmaker wants it or not - would necessarily appear in public opinion
like another type of marriage that would inevitably assume a relative
value."
"With these choices, to which Europe tends today - shall we say - in
decline, we make a break from all the great cultures of humanity that
have always recognized the very meaning of sexuality," said Cardinal
Ratzinger, "that men and women were created to be jointly the
guarantee of the future of humanity. Not only a physical guarantee but
also a moral one."
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=2499
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
10 Dec 2004 10:34:53 PM |
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(Words of Truth) writes:
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
It never ceases to amaze me that Christians will talk about
their own culture as if it were the only persistent one for 2000 years.
As if the Egyptians didn't manage 5,000 years of relative stability, or
the Chinese, or as if the Aztecs didn't manage their own thousand years
without collapse-- yet none of them had the slightest inkling that Yaweh
or Yeshuah existed.
If this is the Kristol/Kirk line of reasoning that *any* belief
in God is important, no matter how far off the mark, because it keeps
people in line, I'd be willing to take up that argument, but few
Christians would be willing to do so in public.
Society without the Christian God has demonstrated its ability
to maintain institutions of continuity, at least two with greater
success than Christianity itself.
Elf
--
Elf M. Sternberg
http://www.drizzle.com/~elf/
You know how it is. You're all oiled up and wrestling naked in the manner
of the ancient Greek warriors and the next thing you know you're using
your lever to move the world. - Gen. J.C. Christian
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
10 Dec 2004 08:35:48 PM |
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(Words of Truth) wrote in
news:3d02dea6.0412101810.3d19feb5@posting.google.com:
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
In other words, politicians need the god myth to control and manipulate the
masses.
(snip religious ***** from the Vatican)
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "navi-gater" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
11 Dec 2004 01:42:06 AM |
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(Words of Truth) wrote in
news:3d02dea6.0412101810.3d19feb5@posting.google.com:
You know, I can tolerate people who are simply foolish and looking for an
argument or whatever.
But when someone just posts stuff from elsewhere all the time without
contributing anything of their own.... well it a) shows a lack of original
thought b) demonstrates a lack of respect for anyone else.
So in kind, please accept my <plonk> in the way I intend it.
Thus spake the gater.
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
11 Dec 2004 09:22:03 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, Words of Truth poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
Perhaps that would explain the current implosion of the Catholic Church.
....
Therefore he said "we must defend religious freedom against the
imposition of an ideology which is presented as if it were the only
voice of rationality, when it is only the expression of a 'certain'
rationalism."
Snorf!
As if the ideology of the Church were not just a "certain rationalism".
More precisely, it is just a certain rationalization.
....
He said that the true essence of Christianity is "a history of love
between God and men. If this is understood in the language of our
times, the rest just follows."
Yup. As George Bernard Shaw noted: "Christianity might be a good thing
if anyone ever tried it".
....
He said that the sidelining of God can be seen in the worlds of
politics, of business and the economy, of private life. "To me," said
the cardinal, "it seems necessary to rediscover, and the energy to do
so exists, that even the political and economic spheres need moral
responsibility, a responsibility that is born in man's heart and, in
the end, has to do with the presence or absence of God."
Translation: I want a theocracy.
"A society in which God is completely absent self-destructs. We saw
this in the great totalitarian regimes of the last century."
I wonder which regimes achieved this complete absence of theism.
....
"The pill," said Cardinal Ratzinger "has changed the vision of
sexuality, the human being and the body itself.
Translation: Let the Church tell you how to think.
Sexuality has been
separated from fecundity and in this way it has profoundly changed the
concept of the human life.
Yup. When parents can choose how many children, and when, then children
become more wanted and precious.
He explained that "the sexual act has lost its purpose and finality
which before was clear and specific, so that all forms of sexuality
have become equivalent. Above all…the equalization between
homosexuality and heterosexuality."
ROTFL !! Since Ratzinger presumably has taken a vow of celibacy, then
for him all forms of sexuality are also equivalent, namely: to be
avoided.
On the question of the Church's position on homosexuality, Card.
Ratzinger said that "above all, we must have great respect for these
people who also suffer and who want to find their own way of correct
living.
Uh huh. No mention of the fact that the Church has been a large
contributor to this suffering.
On the other hand, to create a legal form of a kind of
homosexual marriage, in reality, does not help these people."
How touching. Always wanting to help.
He said that the law presented for debate by the Spanish government
which would completely legalize homosexual marriage "is destructive to
the family and society, because "the law creates morality or a moral
form, since people habitually think that what the law affirms is
morally allowed."
Silly twaddle. Homosexuality is as old as humanity, and humanity has
survived throughout.
"If we judge this union to be more or less equivalent to marriage," he
posited, " we have a society that no longer recognizes either the
specific nature of the family, nor its fundamental character, that is
to say, the nature of man and woman which is to create continuity -
not only in a biological sense - for humanity."
Ditto.
The Cardinal said that "the Spanish decision does not provide a real
benefit" to homosexuals, "since in this way we are destroying the
fundamental elements of an order of law."
Ditto.
He stated further that even institutionalization and legal recognition
of civil unions between two members of the same sex, "whether the
lawmaker wants it or not - would necessarily appear in public opinion
like another type of marriage that would inevitably assume a relative
value."
How shocking. Can't have them looking or living like everyone else.
....
Regards,
Josef
The neer to the church, the further from God.
-- John Heywood
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
11 Dec 2004 07:51:02 PM |
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On 10 Dec 2004 18:10:42 -0800, (Words of
Truth) said in alt.atheism:
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
VATICAN CITY, Vatican, Nov. 19, 2004 (CNA) - In an interview published
in Italian newspaper "La Reppublica" today, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,
prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
That's the same Congregation that ran the Inquisitions, isn't it?
This ideological laicism "does not give public space to the Catholic
or Christian vision, which runs the risk of becoming something purely
private
Oh, you mean like Jesus said it should be.
He said that the true essence of Christianity is "a history of love
between God and men.
For certain horrible values of "love".
He said that the sidelining of God can be seen in the worlds of
politics, of business and the economy, of private life. "To me," said
the cardinal, "it seems necessary to rediscover, and the energy to do
so exists, that even the political and economic spheres need moral
responsibility, a responsibility that is born in man's heart and, in
the end, has to do with the presence or absence of God."
Maybe in Vatican City, maybe in Italy, but if he doesn't like the fact
that religion and government are separate in the US, he doesn't have
to visit.
"A society in which God is completely absent self-destructs. We saw
this in the great totalitarian regimes of the last century."
Mussolini? Hitler? Both Catholics.
On the question of the Church's position on homosexuality, Card.
Ratzinger said that "above all, we must have great respect for these
people who also suffer and who want to find their own way of correct
living. On the other hand, to create a legal form of a kind of
homosexual marriage, in reality, does not help these people."
Nor does ignoring the existence of those who don't think that
heterosexuality is the only "way of correct living".
He said that the law presented for debate by the Spanish government
which would completely legalize homosexual marriage "is destructive to
the family and society, because "the law creates morality or a moral
form, since people habitually think that what the law affirms is
morally allowed."
Comes from not separating Church and State.
"If we judge this union to be more or less equivalent to marriage," he
posited, " we have a society that no longer recognizes either the
specific nature of the family, nor its fundamental character, that is
to say, the nature of man and woman which is to create continuity -
not only in a biological sense - for humanity."
So the Church doesn't recognize marriage between sterile men and
women? Between those who choose to not have children? Between those
too old to have them?
The Cardinal said that "the Spanish decision does not provide a real
benefit" to homosexuals, "since in this way we are destroying the
fundamental elements of an order of law."
Only Catholic law - which the people of Spain seem to not want.
He stated further that even institutionalization and legal recognition
of civil unions between two members of the same sex, "whether the
lawmaker wants it or not - would necessarily appear in public opinion
like another type of marriage that would inevitably assume a relative
value."
And, if that's what the people want - equality - who is the Church to
say "no"?
"With these choices, to which Europe tends today - shall we say - in
decline, we make a break from all the great cultures of humanity that
have always recognized the very meaning of sexuality,"
Like those who considered homosexuality to be one of the "correct
ways" of life? Like those who considered prostitution to be
"correct"?
said Cardinal
Ratzinger, "that men and women were created to be jointly the
guarantee of the future of humanity. Not only a physical guarantee but
also a moral one."
His opinion, not one he has the slightest right to impose on anyone
else.
Thanks for pointing out how hypocritical the Church is.
---
CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net
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| User: "sAnToLiNa" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
11 Dec 2004 09:29:33 PM |
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Words of Truth <wordsoftruth417@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d02dea6.0412101810.3d19feb5@posting.google.com...
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
VATICAN CITY, Vatican, Nov. 19, 2004 (CNA) - In an interview published
in Italian newspaper "La Reppublica" today, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,
prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said that
"a society in which God is completely absent self-destructs,"
Yes. Note, for instance, the self-destruction of society in China, Japan,
Korea, etc.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
13 Dec 2004 04:48:55 PM |
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Words of Truth wrote:
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
The truth is society is flamable by nature, it will selfdestruct at any
rate with god or without, but society still needs sexual culture at a
bare minumum, the politics of survival demands it.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
11 Dec 2004 10:16:14 AM |
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Words of Truth wrote:
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
VATICAN CITY, Vatican, Nov. 19, 2004 (CNA) - In an interview published
in Italian newspaper "La Reppublica" today, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,
prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said that
"a society in which God is completely absent self-destructs,"
I don't know. We have a lot of nations in Europe where god is slipping
away as a belief and they aren't self destructioning. Not like say America
where we are buried in debt and stuck in a tar baby war and losing our
technological edge as creationism marches on.
How about South America, long a Catholic stronghold?
Self destruction by overpopulation, massive slums,
backwardness. Too much god, not enough birth control.
Any region of the world more religous than Islamic nations
collectively? A civilization of religous fanaticism, dust, illiteracy,
poverty, intellectual failure and general backwardness rapidly
overpopulating itself into oblivion.
China is rapidly industiralizing and growin gand changing.
Not exactly self destructing.
Russia is slowly growing out of its Marxist failure.
five 'em a few decades.
**********
Therefore he said "we must defend religious freedom against the
imposition of an ideology which is presented as if it were the only
voice of rationality, when it is only the expression of a 'certain'
rationalism."
We must defend religous freedom from arrogant Catholic bigoty and
stupidity and general backwardness.
--
Apes bad! Dust good!
Apes bad! Dust good!
21st Century American Christianity
in a nutshell.
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Gabrielle Rapagnetta" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
11 Dec 2004 01:20:55 PM |
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Words of Truth wrote:
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
VATICAN CITY, Vatican, Nov. 19, 2004 (CNA) - In an interview published
in Italian newspaper "La Reppublica" today, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,
prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said that
"a society in which God is completely absent self-destructs,"
wbarwell wrote:
I don't know. We have a lot of nations in Europe where god is slipping
away as a belief and they aren't self destructioning. Not like say America
where we are buried in debt and stuck in a tar baby war and losing our
technological edge as creationism marches on.
How about South America, long a Catholic stronghold?
Self destruction by overpopulation, massive slums,
backwardness. Too much god, not enough birth control.
South America's contraceptive prevalence rate is higher than the world
average and nearly equal to North America.
http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/contraceptive2003/WallChart_CP2003.pdf
Your correlation does not exist.
Any region of the world more religous than Islamic nations
collectively? A civilization of religous fanaticism, dust, illiteracy,
poverty, intellectual failure and general backwardness rapidly
overpopulating itself into oblivion.
Iran uses more contraceptives than, say, Alabama.
We must defend religous freedom from arrogant Catholic bigoty and
stupidity and general backwardness.
The "massive slums" you speak of in South America are caused by
displacement, not overpopulation. This displacement from rural areas to
urban concentrations is rationalized, not by religion, but by students
of economic liberalism in far-away places like the University of Chicago.
In South America it is Catholicism which attempts to reform these
practices by introducing moral arguments into the sterile equations of
foreigners who appear to be driven by greed and power. Catholics argue
for basic human rights when mathematicians and economists argue for
moral relativism.
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| User: "The Terminologist" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
11 Dec 2004 03:07:04 PM |
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Gabrielle Rapagnetta wrote:
Words of Truth wrote:
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
VATICAN CITY, Vatican, Nov. 19, 2004 (CNA) - In an interview published
in Italian newspaper "La Reppublica" today, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,
prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said that
"a society in which God is completely absent self-destructs,"
wbarwell wrote:
I don't know. We have a lot of nations in Europe where god is
slipping away as a belief and they aren't self destructioning. Not
like say America
where we are buried in debt and stuck in a tar baby war and losing our
technological edge as creationism marches on.
How about South America, long a Catholic stronghold?
Self destruction by overpopulation, massive slums,
backwardness. Too much god, not enough birth control.
South America's contraceptive prevalence rate is higher than the world
average and nearly equal to North America.
http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/contraceptive2003/WallChart_CP2003.pdf
Your correlation does not exist.
Any region of the world more religous than Islamic nations
collectively? A civilization of religous fanaticism, dust,
illiteracy, poverty, intellectual failure and general backwardness
rapidly
overpopulating itself into oblivion.
Iran uses more contraceptives than, say, Alabama.
We must defend religous freedom from arrogant Catholic bigoty and
stupidity and general backwardness.
The "massive slums" you speak of in South America are caused by
displacement, not overpopulation. This displacement from rural areas to
urban concentrations is rationalized, not by religion, but by students
of economic liberalism in far-away places like the University of Chicago.
In South America it is Catholicism which attempts to reform these
practices by introducing moral arguments into the sterile equations of
foreigners who appear to be driven by greed and power. Catholics argue
for basic human rights when mathematicians and economists argue for
moral relativism.
These South American catholics who oppose economic liberalism, which, in
South America, goes hand in glove with Fascism, have been consistently
and roundly condemned by the Vatican.
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| User: "Gabrielle Rapagnetta" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
11 Dec 2004 04:35:36 PM |
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Gabrielle Rapagnetta wrote:
The "massive slums" you speak of in South America are caused by
displacement, not overpopulation. This displacement from rural areas
to urban concentrations is rationalized, not by religion, but by
students of economic liberalism in far-away places like the University
of Chicago.
In South America it is Catholicism which attempts to reform these
practices by introducing moral arguments into the sterile equations of
foreigners who appear to be driven by greed and power. Catholics
argue for basic human rights when mathematicians and economists argue
for moral relativism.
The Terminologist wrote:
These South American catholics who oppose economic liberalism, which, in
South America, goes hand in glove with Fascism, have been consistently
and roundly condemned by the Vatican.
Indeed. I'm not trying to defend the Pope here (I wouldn't even know
where to begin). But it appears that Catholicism, as it is actually
practiced, is not as dangerous as some would have us believe.
I agree that the current doctrine of banning contraception is one of the
more ridiculous aspects of Catholicism. But consider 100 years ago when
highly educated, scientific minds using empirical research methods
concluded that eugenics was a good and necessary endeavor for society.
We now have a mountain of evidence that shows the fallacies of eugenics,
but at the time, in lieu of this scientific evidence, it was the
Catholic Church who opposed the movement.
The Church believed her doctrine against mixed marriages was 'eugenic'
enough and that God could sort out the rest. History proves this is a
far less dangerous belief than the 'science' which fed the flames of
supremacy. The Church gave us a few lynchings. Science gave us genocide.
I think it wise to consider Catholicism in the context in which it is
actually practiced. In Colombia if you speak out for labor rights to
the government you will be assassinated. If you speak out at your
workplace you will be beaten to death. If you speak out in the press
you will 'disappear'. So you speak out in church instead.
In South America the oppressive, backward doctrines of the Vatican are
insignificant compared to the oppressive, backward doctrines of
Pharisaical neoliberals.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
12 Dec 2004 07:04:11 AM |
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On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:35:36 GMT, Gabrielle Rapagnetta
<cut-out@gmx.net:n0.spam> wrote:
Gabrielle Rapagnetta wrote:
The "massive slums" you speak of in South America are caused by
displacement, not overpopulation. This displacement from rural areas
to urban concentrations is rationalized, not by religion, but by
students of economic liberalism in far-away places like the University
of Chicago.
In South America it is Catholicism which attempts to reform these
practices by introducing moral arguments into the sterile equations of
foreigners who appear to be driven by greed and power. Catholics
argue for basic human rights when mathematicians and economists argue
for moral relativism.
The Terminologist wrote:
These South American catholics who oppose economic liberalism, which, in
South America, goes hand in glove with Fascism, have been consistently
and roundly condemned by the Vatican.
Indeed. I'm not trying to defend the Pope here (I wouldn't even know
where to begin). But it appears that Catholicism, as it is actually
practiced, is not as dangerous as some would have us believe.
I agree that the current doctrine of banning contraception is one of the
more ridiculous aspects of Catholicism. But consider 100 years ago when
highly educated, scientific minds using empirical research methods
concluded that eugenics was a good and necessary endeavor for society.
We now have a mountain of evidence that shows the fallacies of eugenics,
but at the time, in lieu of this scientific evidence, it was the
Catholic Church who opposed the movement.
Not because of any actual results in the real world. They will
equally insist on harmful behavior if it supports some dogma despite
the evidence.
The Church believed her doctrine against mixed marriages was 'eugenic'
enough and that God could sort out the rest. History proves this is a
far less dangerous belief than the 'science' which fed the flames of
supremacy. The Church gave us a few lynchings. Science gave us genocide.
It was scientific knowledge that led to the rejection of eugenics. It
is religious dogma that insists on practices that have long been
proven to be harmful.
I think it wise to consider Catholicism in the context in which it is
actually practiced. In Colombia if you speak out for labor rights to
the government you will be assassinated. If you speak out at your
workplace you will be beaten to death. If you speak out in the press
you will 'disappear'. So you speak out in church instead.
In South America the oppressive, backward doctrines of the Vatican are
insignificant compared to the oppressive, backward doctrines of
Pharisaical neoliberals.
That is a meaningless and vague claim. What is a neo-leberal? What
are their backward doctrines? Name a few of the leaders of this
claimed movement and the terrible consequences of their leadership.
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| User: "Gabrielle Rapagnetta" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
12 Dec 2004 12:54:18 PM |
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Gabrielle Rapagnetta wrote:
The "massive slums" you speak of in South America are caused by
displacement, not overpopulation. This displacement from rural areas
to urban concentrations is rationalized, not by religion, but by
students of economic liberalism in far-away places like the University
of Chicago.
In South America it is Catholicism which attempts to reform these
practices by introducing moral arguments into the sterile equations of
foreigners who appear to be driven by greed and power. Catholics
argue for basic human rights when mathematicians and economists argue
for moral relativism.
[snip]
Gabrielle Rapagnetta
I think it wise to consider Catholicism in the context in which it is
actually practiced. In Colombia if you speak out for labor rights to
the government you will be assassinated. If you speak out at your
workplace you will be beaten to death. If you speak out in the press
you will 'disappear'. So you speak out in church instead.
In South America the oppressive, backward doctrines of the Vatican are
insignificant compared to the oppressive, backward doctrines of
Pharisaical neoliberals.
thomas p wrote:
That is a meaningless and vague claim.
And yet more meaningful and less vague than the attacks on Catholicism
we have been hearing.
What is a neo-liberal?
Economic liberalism, as practiced in South America especially, is an
authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion,
especially one considered to be absolutely true. Oh, wait, that's the
definition of dogma. My bad, I get those words mixed up.
What are their backward doctrines?
Er...I've already mentioned population displacement, massive slums, lack
of labor rights, lack of freedom to assembly, and moral relativism.
I could go on if you like. What is it you're confused about?
Name a few of the leaders of this
claimed movement and the terrible consequences of their leadership.
Well, the board of directors at Citigroup comes to mind. Robert Rubin,
Stan O’Neal, and Tom Renyi could be considered elders of this elite
church. Terrible consequences of their leadership include
environmental destruction, species endangerment, and several hundred
million people who will live their shortened lives mired in poverty.
Okay, your turn: Name the leaders of 'dogma' and the terrible
consequences of their leadership.
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
13 Dec 2004 04:10:29 PM |
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On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:54:18 GMT, Gabrielle Rapagnetta
<cut-out@gmx.net:n0.spam> wrote:
Gabrielle Rapagnetta wrote:
The "massive slums" you speak of in South America are caused by
displacement, not overpopulation. This displacement from rural areas
to urban concentrations is rationalized, not by religion, but by
students of economic liberalism in far-away places like the University
of Chicago.
In South America it is Catholicism which attempts to reform these
practices by introducing moral arguments into the sterile equations of
foreigners who appear to be driven by greed and power. Catholics
argue for basic human rights when mathematicians and economists argue
for moral relativism.
[snip]
Gabrielle Rapagnetta
I think it wise to consider Catholicism in the context in which it is
actually practiced. In Colombia if you speak out for labor rights to
the government you will be assassinated. If you speak out at your
workplace you will be beaten to death. If you speak out in the press
you will 'disappear'. So you speak out in church instead.
In South America the oppressive, backward doctrines of the Vatican are
insignificant compared to the oppressive, backward doctrines of
Pharisaical neoliberals.
thomas p wrote:
That is a meaningless and vague claim.
And yet more meaningful and less vague than the attacks on Catholicism
we have been hearing.
It is?
What is a neo-liberal?
Economic liberalism, as practiced in South America especially, is an
authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion,
especially one considered to be absolutely true.
It sounds very Catholic to me.
Oh, wait, that's the
definition of dogma. My bad, I get those words mixed up.
See, you agree with me.
What are their backward doctrines?
Er...I've already mentioned population displacement, massive slums, lack
of labor rights, lack of freedom to assembly, and moral relativism.
And all of this is opposed by the Church in South America? How odd,
except for a few shining examples (many of them murdered for their
troubles) the hierarchy in South America is pretty well known as being
part of the ruling class and supporters of the status quo. I suppose
they are against moral relativism, since they "know" exactly what is
right and wrong. They also believe it is always the same no matter
how many times they have changed it.
I could go on if you like. What is it you're confused about?
I wonder why you think the groups and people you mention below are
anti-Christian or anti-Catholic.
Name a few of the leaders of this
claimed movement and the terrible consequences of their leadership.
Well, the board of directors at Citigroup comes to mind. Robert Rubin,
Stan O’Neal, and Tom Renyi could be considered elders of this elite
church. Terrible consequences of their leadership include
environmental destruction, species endangerment, and several hundred
million people who will live their shortened lives mired in poverty.
Okay, your turn: Name the leaders of 'dogma' and the terrible
consequences of their leadership.
The Vatican to name one group. The spread of AIDS in Africa that
could have at least been slowed down if the Vatican and other
religious groups had not fought the distribution of condoms. You also
mention slums and shortened lives mired in poverty. The Church's
obstruction of any birth control programs or even information
certainly is a major contributor to the misery. Then there are the
pregnant children (some extremely young) who are prevented by Holy
Mother the Church from getting a safe abortion. The Church also
shares a great deal of responsibility for the high rate of venereal
diseases that flourish in such environments. And, just to name one
more thing, the Church also shares responsibility for the many women
forced to live with abusive husbands, because of the Church's
opposition to divorce.
.
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| User: "Gabrielle Rapagnetta" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
13 Dec 2004 04:54:23 PM |
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Gabrielle Rapagnetta
[snip]
I've already mentioned population displacement, massive slums, lack
of labor rights, lack of freedom to assembly, and moral relativism.
thomas p wrote:
And all of this is opposed by the Church in South America? How odd,
except for a few shining examples (many of them murdered for their
troubles) the hierarchy in South America is pretty well known as being
part of the ruling class and supporters of the status quo. I suppose
they are against moral relativism, since they "know" exactly what is
right and wrong. They also believe it is always the same no matter
how many times they have changed it.
Opposing moral relativism is nothing to scoff at. Sure, the Vatican
cabal appears to oppose relativism for their own BS reasons. But they
do oppose it and that's worth something.
My point here is that there is more than one belief system plaguing
South America, or anywhere for that matter. Removing Catholicism from
the equation at this point will only serve to strengthen more harmful
systems.
I wonder why you think the groups and people you mention below are
anti-Christian or anti-Catholic.
I don't. They can, and will, call themselves whatever they like. But
when they draft policy for Latin America based on the assumption that
workers will not have labor or assembly rights they find themselves
opposing many of their 'fellow' Catholics.
If we must have policies of faith then let them fight each other.
Name a few of the leaders of this
claimed movement and the terrible consequences of their leadership.
Well, the board of directors at Citigroup comes to mind. Robert Rubin,
Stan O’Neal, and Tom Renyi could be considered elders of this elite
church. Terrible consequences of their leadership include
environmental destruction, species endangerment, and several hundred
million people who will live their shortened lives mired in poverty.
Okay, your turn: Name the leaders of 'dogma' and the terrible
consequences of their leadership.
The Vatican to name one group. The spread of AIDS in Africa that
could have at least been slowed down if the Vatican and other
religious groups had not fought the distribution of condoms. You also
mention slums and shortened lives mired in poverty. The Church's
obstruction of any birth control programs or even information
certainly is a major contributor to the misery. Then there are the
pregnant children (some extremely young) who are prevented by Holy
Mother the Church from getting a safe abortion. The Church also
shares a great deal of responsibility for the high rate of venereal
diseases that flourish in such environments. And, just to name one
more thing, the Church also shares responsibility for the many women
forced to live with abusive husbands, because of the Church's
opposition to divorce.
Great response. I take it you think that organized religion is more
harmful than individual religion. I am not so sure.
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
14 Dec 2004 12:52:24 AM |
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:54:23 GMT, Gabrielle Rapagnetta
<cut-out@gmx.net:n0.spam> wrote:
Gabrielle Rapagnetta
[snip]
I've already mentioned population displacement, massive slums, lack
of labor rights, lack of freedom to assembly, and moral relativism.
thomas p wrote:
And all of this is opposed by the Church in South America? How odd,
except for a few shining examples (many of them murdered for their
troubles) the hierarchy in South America is pretty well known as being
part of the ruling class and supporters of the status quo. I suppose
they are against moral relativism, since they "know" exactly what is
right and wrong. They also believe it is always the same no matter
how many times they have changed it.
Opposing moral relativism is nothing to scoff at. Sure, the Vatican
cabal appears to oppose relativism for their own BS reasons. But they
do oppose it and that's worth something.
It is worth the damage their opposition to reality causes. Since
there is no such thing as an absolute morality, moral relativity is a
fact.
My point here is that there is more than one belief system plaguing
South America, or anywhere for that matter. Removing Catholicism from
the equation at this point will only serve to strengthen more harmful
systems.
As if it was not part of the system.
I wonder why you think the groups and people you mention below are
anti-Christian or anti-Catholic.
I don't. They can, and will, call themselves whatever they like. But
when they draft policy for Latin America based on the assumption that
workers will not have labor or assembly rights they find themselves
opposing many of their 'fellow' Catholics.
But not the Church in Latin America.
If we must have policies of faith then let them fight each other.
And allow others to criticize their hypocritical, self-serving idiocy.
Name a few of the leaders of this
claimed movement and the terrible consequences of their leadership.
Well, the board of directors at Citigroup comes to mind. Robert Rubin,
Stan O’Neal, and Tom Renyi could be considered elders of this elite
church. Terrible consequences of their leadership include
environmental destruction, species endangerment, and several hundred
million people who will live their shortened lives mired in poverty.
Okay, your turn: Name the leaders of 'dogma' and the terrible
consequences of their leadership.
The Vatican to name one group. The spread of AIDS in Africa that
could have at least been slowed down if the Vatican and other
religious groups had not fought the distribution of condoms. You also
mention slums and shortened lives mired in poverty. The Church's
obstruction of any birth control programs or even information
certainly is a major contributor to the misery. Then there are the
pregnant children (some extremely young) who are prevented by Holy
Mother the Church from getting a safe abortion. The Church also
shares a great deal of responsibility for the high rate of venereal
diseases that flourish in such environments. And, just to name one
more thing, the Church also shares responsibility for the many women
forced to live with abusive husbands, because of the Church's
opposition to divorce.
Great response. I take it you think that organized religion is more
harmful than individual religion. I am not so sure.
.
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| User: "Gabrielle Rapagnetta" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
17 Dec 2004 12:11:45 AM |
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Gabrielle Rapagnetta
Opposing moral relativism is nothing to scoff at. Sure, the Vatican
cabal appears to oppose relativism for their own BS reasons. But they
do oppose it and that's worth something.
thomas p wrote:
It is worth the damage their opposition to reality causes. Since
there is no such thing as an absolute morality, moral relativity is a
fact.
Ah, so we see that you, too, have a belief system. You might be
surprised to hear that your particular belief system is also a dangerous
one.
My point here is that there is more than one belief system plaguing
South America, or anywhere for that matter. Removing Catholicism from
the equation at this point will only serve to strengthen more harmful
systems.
As if it was not part of the system.
But your belief in the absence of absolute morality is not part of the
Catholic system. You'd do better to think of these beliefs as competing
parasites -- yours included. You will never cure humanity of its
parasitic infection by introducing more parasites. Well...you might,
but I doubt it.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
17 Dec 2004 05:51:16 AM |
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On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:11:45 GMT, Gabrielle Rapagnetta
<cut-out@gmx.net:n0.spam> wrote:
Gabrielle Rapagnetta
Opposing moral relativism is nothing to scoff at. Sure, the Vatican
cabal appears to oppose relativism for their own BS reasons. But they
do oppose it and that's worth something.
thomas p wrote:
It is worth the damage their opposition to reality causes. Since
there is no such thing as an absolute morality, moral relativity is a
fact.
Ah, so we see that you, too, have a belief system. You might be
surprised to hear that your particular belief system is also a dangerous
one.
Both these ignorant claims about him are only in the deluded
imagination of the psychotic theist.
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
17 Dec 2004 04:29:42 PM |
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On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:11:45 GMT, Gabrielle Rapagnetta
<cut-out@gmx.net:n0.spam> wrote:
Gabrielle Rapagnetta
Opposing moral relativism is nothing to scoff at. Sure, the Vatican
cabal appears to oppose relativism for their own BS reasons. But they
do oppose it and that's worth something.
thomas p wrote:
It is worth the damage their opposition to reality causes. Since
there is no such thing as an absolute morality, moral relativity is a
fact.
Ah, so we see that you, too, have a belief system. You might be
surprised to hear that your particular belief system is also a dangerous
one.
That is your assertion. The fact is that there is no recognizable
absolute morality and there never has been. Furthermore you do not
know what I believe, but it is apparently different than what you
believe; which actually backs up my point.
My point here is that there is more than one belief system plaguing
South America, or anywhere for that matter. Removing Catholicism from
the equation at this point will only serve to strengthen more harmful
systems.
As if it was not part of the system.
But your belief in the absence of absolute morality is not part of the
Catholic system.
I have no idea what you mean by "But". I am quite happy that my views
are not that of the Catholic Church.
You'd do better to think of these beliefs as competing
parasites -- yours included.
I see no reason why I should. You certainly have provided none beyond
your assertion.
You will never cure humanity of its
parasitic infection by introducing more parasites. Well...you might,
but I doubt it.
I have no idea what you are talking about, but apparently you believe
there is something called absolute morality; and you believe it is not
the version offered by the Catholic Church. So, tell me, who
determines what is absolute morality; or is it supposed to be
something that we all just know by virtue of being human?
All I can see is the existence of any number of moral systems all with
their supporters. I can see that different cultures have different
concepts of right and wrong, moral and immoral and that, within the
same culture, the concepts have changed through time and differ
between contemporary groups. Many of these groups claim that their
morality is absolute. Apparently you think you are in possession of
the true and genuine absolute morality. I await your revelation with
bated breath.
.
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| User: "Gabrielle Rapagnetta" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
17 Dec 2004 10:42:01 PM |
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Gabrielle Rapagnetta
Opposing moral relativism is nothing to scoff at. Sure, the Vatican
cabal appears to oppose relativism for their own BS reasons. But they
do oppose it and that's worth something.
thomas p wrote:
It is worth the damage their opposition to reality causes. Since
there is no such thing as an absolute morality, moral relativity is a
fact.
Gabrielle Rapagnetta
Ah, so we see that you, too, have a belief system. You might be
surprised to hear that your particular belief system is also a dangerous
one.
thomas p wrote:
That is your assertion. The fact is that there is no recognizable
absolute morality and there never has been. Furthermore you do not
know what I believe, but it is apparently different than what you
believe; which actually backs up my point.
First you told me there was no such thing as absolute morality. Now you
tell me there is no such as "recognizable" absolute morality. When you
get it figured out get back to me.
You'd do better to think of these beliefs as competing
parasites -- yours included.
You will never cure humanity of its
parasitic infection by introducing more parasites. Well...you might,
but I doubt it.
I have no idea what you are talking about, but apparently you believe
there is something called absolute morality; and you believe it is not
the version offered by the Catholic Church. So, tell me, who
determines what is absolute morality; or is it supposed to be
something that we all just know by virtue of being human?
All I can see is the existence of any number of moral systems all with
their supporters. I can see that different cultures have different
concepts of right and wrong, moral and immoral and that, within the
same culture, the concepts have changed through time and differ
between contemporary groups. Many of these groups claim that their
morality is absolute. Apparently you think you are in possession of
the true and genuine absolute morality. I await your revelation with
bated breath.
The revelation comes once you step outside your own belief system. Stop
telling the world what is impossible. That'd be a good start.
Catholic doctrines attempt to impose social control, often for
altruistic reasons.
Doctrines of moral relativity attempt to justify and maintain disparity,
often for selfish reasons.
You pick on Catholics because they are an easy target. I pick on you
because you are the one causing the most damage.
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
18 Dec 2004 05:49:48 AM |
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On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 04:42:01 GMT, Gabrielle Rapagnetta
<cut-out@gmx.n0spam.net> wrote:
Gabrielle Rapagnetta
Opposing moral relativism is nothing to scoff at. Sure, the Vatican
cabal appears to oppose relativism for their own BS reasons. But they
do oppose it and that's worth something.
thomas p wrote:
It is worth the damage their opposition to reality causes. Since
there is no such thing as an absolute morality, moral relativity is a
fact.
Gabrielle Rapagnetta
Ah, so we see that you, too, have a belief system. You might be
surprised to hear that your particular belief system is also a dangerous
one.
thomas p wrote:
That is your assertion. The fact is that there is no recognizable
absolute morality and there never has been. Furthermore you do not
know what I believe, but it is apparently different than what you
believe; which actually backs up my point.
First you told me there was no such thing as absolute morality. Now you
tell me there is no such as "recognizable" absolute morality. When you
get it figured out get back to me.
Reduced to word games so soon?
You'd do better to think of these beliefs as competing
parasites -- yours included.
You will never cure humanity of its
parasitic infection by introducing more parasites. Well...you might,
but I doubt it.
I have no idea what you are talking about, but apparently you believe
there is something called absolute morality; and you believe it is not
the version offered by the Catholic Church. So, tell me, who
determines what is absolute morality; or is it supposed to be
something that we all just know by virtue of being human?
All I can see is the existence of any number of moral systems all with
their supporters. I can see that different cultures have different
concepts of right and wrong, moral and immoral and that, within the
same culture, the concepts have changed through time and differ
between contemporary groups. Many of these groups claim that their
morality is absolute. Apparently you think you are in possession of
the true and genuine absolute morality. I await your revelation with
bated breath.
The revelation comes once you step outside your own belief system. Stop
telling the world what is impossible. That'd be a good start.
I asked you to tell me what this absolute morality was; you didn't.
Catholic doctrines attempt to impose social control, often for
altruistic reasons.
Doctrines of moral relativity attempt to justify and maintain disparity,
often for selfish reasons.
You pick on Catholics because they are an easy target. I pick on you
because you are the one causing the most damage.
I note that you failed to answer my question. You talk about an
absolute morality, but you seem unable to say what it is or where it
comes from. By the way, I did not pick on Catholics, and you have not
shown any damage that I have caused.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
17 Dec 2004 02:14:48 AM |
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The Rapagnetta Virus:
You will never cure humanity of its parasitic infection by
introducing more parasites.
True. Do you feel suicidal tonite, wilted fart? America also needs to
get rid of its parasites, Saddam's boylovers such as Dougherty or
bankrupt Islamofascist brothel queens such as Rapagnetta among them.
cheers,
-Mike
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
12 Dec 2004 08:26:21 AM |
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thomas p wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:35:36 GMT, Gabrielle Rapagnetta
<cut-out@gmx.net:n0.spam> wrote:
Gabrielle Rapagnetta wrote:
The "massive slums" you speak of in South America are caused by
displacement, not overpopulation. This displacement from rural areas
to urban concentrations is rationalized, not by religion, but by
students of economic liberalism in far-away places like the University
of Chicago.
In South America it is Catholicism which attempts to reform these
practices by introducing moral arguments into the sterile equations of
foreigners who appear to be driven by greed and power. Catholics
argue for basic human rights when mathematicians and economists argue
for moral relativism.
The Terminologist wrote:
These South American catholics who oppose economic liberalism, which, in
South America, goes hand in glove with Fascism, have been consistently
and roundly condemned by the Vatican.
Indeed. I'm not trying to defend the Pope here (I wouldn't even know
where to begin). But it appears that Catholicism, as it is actually
practiced, is not as dangerous as some would have us believe.
I agree that the current doctrine of banning contraception is one of the
more ridiculous aspects of Catholicism. But consider 100 years ago when
highly educated, scientific minds using empirical research methods
concluded that eugenics was a good and necessary endeavor for society.
We now have a mountain of evidence that shows the fallacies of eugenics,
but at the time, in lieu of this scientific evidence, it was the
Catholic Church who opposed the movement.
Not because of any actual results in the real world. They will
equally insist on harmful behavior if it supports some dogma despite
the evidence.
The Church believed her doctrine against mixed marriages was 'eugenic'
enough and that God could sort out the rest. History proves this is a
far less dangerous belief than the 'science' which fed the flames of
supremacy. The Church gave us a few lynchings. Science gave us genocide.
It was scientific knowledge that led to the rejection of eugenics. It
is religious dogma that insists on practices that have long been
proven to be harmful.
I think it wise to consider Catholicism in the context in which it is
actually practiced. In Colombia if you speak out for labor rights to
the government you will be assassinated. If you speak out at your
workplace you will be beaten to death. If you speak out in the press
you will 'disappear'. So you speak out in church instead.
In South America the oppressive, backward doctrines of the Vatican are
insignificant compared to the oppressive, backward doctrines of
Pharisaical neoliberals.
That is a meaningless and vague claim. What is a neo-leberal? What
are their backward doctrines? Name a few of the leaders of this
claimed movement and the terrible consequences of their leadership.
Neo-liberalism is the name given (misleading) to the
rightist idea that nations must privatize and adopt open
trade policies to prosper. This is the path the World bank,
Britain and the USA has insisted on in third world nations,
especially South America, where such policies have proven to
be a big bust, witness the collapse of Argentine, Brazil,
weak economies in Venezuela and other places where neo-liberalism,
a misleading name for rightist economic policies, has been tried.
It is now, after 25 years of experimentation on the
unhappy nations South of the border, being rejected
on grounds it was a load of crap that doesn't
work and is used by the West as part of schemes
of economic opportunism for the USA and others.
--
Apes bad! Dust good!
Apes bad! Dust good!
21st Century American Christianity
in a nutshell.
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
12 Dec 2004 12:50:15 PM |
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On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 09:26:21 -0500, wbarwell
<wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
thomas p wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:35:36 GMT, Gabrielle Rapagnetta
<cut-out@gmx.net:n0.spam> wrote:
Gabrielle Rapagnetta wrote:
The "massive slums" you speak of in South America are caused by
displacement, not overpopulation. This displacement from rural areas
to urban concentrations is rationalized, not by religion, but by
students of economic liberalism in far-away places like the University
of Chicago.
In South America it is Catholicism which attempts to reform these
practices by introducing moral arguments into the sterile equations of
foreigners who appear to be driven by greed and power. Catholics
argue for basic human rights when mathematicians and economists argue
for moral relativism.
The Terminologist wrote:
These South American catholics who oppose economic liberalism, which, in
South America, goes hand in glove with Fascism, have been consistently
and roundly condemned by the Vatican.
Indeed. I'm not trying to defend the Pope here (I wouldn't even know
where to begin). But it appears that Catholicism, as it is actually
practiced, is not as dangerous as some would have us believe.
I agree that the current doctrine of banning contraception is one of the
more ridiculous aspects of Catholicism. But consider 100 years ago when
highly educated, scientific minds using empirical research methods
concluded that eugenics was a good and necessary endeavor for society.
We now have a mountain of evidence that shows the fallacies of eugenics,
but at the time, in lieu of this scientific evidence, it was the
Catholic Church who opposed the movement.
Not because of any actual results in the real world. They will
equally insist on harmful behavior if it supports some dogma despite
the evidence.
The Church believed her doctrine against mixed marriages was 'eugenic'
enough and that God could sort out the rest. History proves this is a
far less dangerous belief than the 'science' which fed the flames of
supremacy. The Church gave us a few lynchings. Science gave us genocide.
It was scientific knowledge that led to the rejection of eugenics. It
is religious dogma that insists on practices that have long been
proven to be harmful.
I think it wise to consider Catholicism in the context in which it is
actually practiced. In Colombia if you speak out for labor rights to
the government you will be assassinated. If you speak out at your
workplace you will be beaten to death. If you speak out in the press
you will 'disappear'. So you speak out in church instead.
In South America the oppressive, backward doctrines of the Vatican are
insignificant compared to the oppressive, backward doctrines of
Pharisaical neoliberals.
That is a meaningless and vague claim. What is a neo-leberal? What
are their backward doctrines? Name a few of the leaders of this
claimed movement and the terrible consequences of their leadership.
Neo-liberalism is the name given (misleading) to the
rightist idea that nations must privatize and adopt open
trade policies to prosper. This is the path the World bank,
Britain and the USA has insisted on in third world nations,
especially South America, where such policies have proven to
be a big bust, witness the collapse of Argentine, Brazil,
weak economies in Venezuela and other places where neo-liberalism,
a misleading name for rightist economic policies, has been tried.
Yes, it is misleading, since "liberal" has been misused in America so
much that one automatically thinks that some left-wing idea is being
discussed; and, in America, that is usually true.
It is now, after 25 years of experimentation on the
unhappy nations South of the border, being rejected
on grounds it was a load of crap that doesn't
work and is used by the West as part of schemes
of economic opportunism for the USA and others.
It is very odd that a nation dominated by monopolies that appear to
control the government should talk about free trade. Well, actually
it is not odd at all. It is not even economic opportunism for the
USA, rather it is economic opportunism for a small segment of US
business to the detriment of the world, the great mass of US citizens
and to firms less well-connected than Halliburton; which has opened up
a branch office in the White House.
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Society Absent Of God Self-Destructs |
11 Dec 2004 02:22:47 PM |
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Gabrielle Rapagnetta wrote:
Words of Truth wrote:
Society absent of God self-destructs, says Ratzinger, points to
current political, legal and sexual culture
VATICAN CITY, Vatican, Nov. 19, 2004 (CNA) - In an interview published
in Italian newspaper "La Reppublica" today, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,
prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said that
"a society in which God is completely absent self-destructs,"
wbarwell wrote:
I don't know. We have a lot of nations in Europe where god is slipping
away as a belief and they aren't self destructioning. Not like say
America where we are buried in debt and stuck in a tar baby war and
losing our technological edge as creationism marches on.
How about South America, long a Catholic stronghold?
Self destruction by overpopulation, massive slums,
backwardness. Too much god, not enough birth control.
South America's contraceptive prevalence rate is higher than the world
average and nearly equal to North America.
http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/contraceptive2003/WallChart_CP2003.pdf
Your correlation does not exist.
Only because over two decades peole rejected papl screeching about birth
control.
I note that protestantism has also made big inroads in South America also,
as have animists religions like Macumba.
Those massive shanty towns did get there last year, it was a result of
years of overpopulation.
Any region of the world more religous than Islamic nations
collectively? A civilization of religous fanaticism, dust, illiteracy,
poverty, intellectual failure and general backwardness rapidly
overpopulating itself into oblivion.
Iran uses more contraceptives than, say, Alabama.
Yes, because they realize that they have a serious
overpopulation problem and will be destroyed if they
don't get on top of it. Which is encouraging, unlike the backward and
deeply ignorant Roman Catholic Church that does not seem as
educatable as the Iranian Imams and President ot the USA.
Hopefully their campaign will in the future, bear fruit.
on the other hand, similar campaigns in Egypt have been
somewhat limited in success.
We must defend religous freedom from arrogant Catholic bigoty and
stupidity and general backwardness.
The "massive slums" you speak of in South America are caused by
displacement, not overpopulation. This displacement from rural areas to
urban concentrations is rationalized, not by religion, but by students
of economic liberalism in far-away places like the University of Chicago.
That is indeed part of it, the other part of it is, there were no jobs for
anybody so squatters made their own towns and cities, vast, unplanned,
without adequate services. Population growth sure did play a big part in
all of this though.
In South America it is Catholicism which attempts to reform these
practices by introducing moral arguments into the sterile equations of
foreigners who appear to be driven by greed and power. Catholics argue
for basic human rights when mathematicians and economists argue for
moral relativism.
The moron pope stil peddles his intellectually feeble
minded pronouncements on birth control, which if followed,
would be a deep and lasting disaster.
--
Apes bad! Dust good!
Apes bad! Dust good!
21st Century American Christianity
in a nutshell.
Cheerful Charlie
.
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