Religions > Atheism > Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
25 Nov 2003 02:15:16 PM |
| Object: |
Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
James <always@thetruth.cim> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
"Rich Wellner" <rw2_usenet@poliglut.org> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:23:21 +0000, William Cook wrote:
Liberals are not open minded. Neither are your breed of conservatives.
Both are about equally closed minded, and equally dishonest.
Liberals are, by definition, open minded.
From the OED:
4. a. Free from narrow prejudice; open-minded, candid.
Just because Rush is illiterate and uses the wrong word when he means
leftist doesn't mean the rest of us must.
If one reads the Christanic mythologies and the story of the destruction of
Soddom, the _reason_ why it and its sister city was destroyed was because
the people of the cities were not liberals. Their inequity in not being of
a liberal heart was what caused their desert death gods to destroy them.
That's a totally revisionist reading, designed to make
the "facts" fit your beliefs.
Ezekiel 16:48-49 buddy, straight from the mouth of one of the more
important Christian gods. Need I quote the section for you? Yeah,
probably:
Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign
LORD , your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what
you and your daughters have done.
Ezekiel 16 49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She
and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they
did not help the poor and needy.
Memorize it and stop pretending that Sodom had anything to do with
homosexuality while you're at it.
I win.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
"In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the
sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."
- Idi Dada Amin
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was BoycottCBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
26 Nov 2003 02:49:45 PM |
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"Fredric L. Rice" wrote:
James <always@thetruth.cim> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
"Rich Wellner" <rw2_usenet@poliglut.org> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:23:21 +0000, William Cook wrote:
Liberals are not open minded. Neither are your breed of conservatives.
Both are about equally closed minded, and equally dishonest.
Liberals are, by definition, open minded.
From the OED:
4. a. Free from narrow prejudice; open-minded, candid.
Just because Rush is illiterate and uses the wrong word when he means
leftist doesn't mean the rest of us must.
If one reads the Christanic mythologies and the story of the destruction of
Soddom, the _reason_ why it and its sister city was destroyed was because
the people of the cities were not liberals. Their inequity in not being of
a liberal heart was what caused their desert death gods to destroy them.
That's a totally revisionist reading, designed to make
the "facts" fit your beliefs.
Ezekiel 16:48-49 buddy, straight from the mouth of one of the more
important Christian gods. Need I quote the section for you? Yeah,
probably:
Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign
LORD , your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what
you and your daughters have done.
Ezekiel 16 49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She
and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they
did not help the poor and needy.
Memorize it and stop pretending that Sodom had anything to do with
homosexuality while you're at it.
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent, omnipresent
deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
26 Nov 2003 01:15:01 AM |
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Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
"Fredric L. Rice" wrote:
James <always@thetruth.cim> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
"Rich Wellner" <rw2_usenet@poliglut.org> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:23:21 +0000, William Cook wrote:
Liberals are not open minded. Neither are your breed of conservatives.
Both are about equally closed minded, and equally dishonest.
Liberals are, by definition, open minded.
From the OED:
4. a. Free from narrow prejudice; open-minded, candid.
Just because Rush is illiterate and uses the wrong word when he means
leftist doesn't mean the rest of us must.
If one reads the Christanic mythologies and the story of the destruction of
Soddom, the _reason_ why it and its sister city was destroyed was because
the people of the cities were not liberals. Their inequity in not being of
a liberal heart was what caused their desert death gods to destroy them.
That's a totally revisionist reading, designed to make
the "facts" fit your beliefs.
Ezekiel 16:48-49 buddy, straight from the mouth of one of the more
important Christian gods. Need I quote the section for you? Yeah,
probably:
Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign
LORD , your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what
you and your daughters have done.
Ezekiel 16 49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She
and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they
did not help the poor and needy.
Memorize it and stop pretending that Sodom had anything to do with
homosexuality while you're at it.
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
Yep, I've got a number of versions of the mythologies on my shelves and
the few I checked all said the same thing: a lack of charity for their
fellow humans. Modern day Republicanism. }:-}
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent,
omnipresent deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
The Christanic gods were okay with the rape and slavery of virgin females
(Numbers 31:17-18) but they were against the rape of his "Angels." The
"two strangers" in the mythologies were messengers of the Christianic
Elohim. If there was any "abomination," it was his messengers having sex
in the Hellenistic tradition, _or_ in Hebrew tradition. The Jesus mythos
himself adopted a young male lover when the mythos became Hellenized.
The unknown authors of the myths were recounting the volcanic destruction
of cities that were destroyed by ash and dust, something the ignorant of
the day had no choice but attribute to the will of the various gods and
goddesses, demons and spectors of the time.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
"In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the
sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."
- Idi Dada Amin
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| User: "Gene Seibel" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
01 Dec 2003 03:28:12 PM |
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The Jesus mythos
himself adopted a young male lover when the mythos became Hellenized.
Where do you get this?
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
02 Dec 2003 09:05:01 PM |
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(Gene Seibel) wrote:
The Jesus mythos
himself adopted a young male lover when the mythos became Hellenized.
Where do you get this?
From the contemporary versions of the classical Christanic mythologies,
the same place the gods and goddesses described within come from.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was BoycottCBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
01 Dec 2003 04:44:15 PM |
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Gene Seibel wrote:
The Jesus mythos
himself adopted a young male lover when the mythos became Hellenized.
Where do you get this?
There are several sources in Christian Scripture.
Probably the most pointed is the frequent mention in the Gospel of John,
where we repeatedly hear about an unnamed disciple "whom Jesus loved." (See
John 13:23-26, 19:26-27, 20:1-10, 21:7a, 20-24)
In Mark, the description of Jesus' arrest includes a comment about a "young
man" who followed Jesus "with nothing but a linen cloth about his body" who
"left the linen cloth and ran away naked." (see Mark 14:51-52)
In Matthew's Gospel, there is the story of the centurion who begs Jesus to
heal someone in his household. (Matthew 8:5-13) Different translations give
"son" or "servant", but the actual Greek word is _pais_. The word literally
translates as "boy." In other examples of Koine Greek (the language of the
Gospels and most of Paul's letters), the word is never used to mean "son"
or "servant"; it is used either in general terms for a pre-pubescent boy
who is not blood kin or as a euphemism for a man's young male lover. The
cenurion's great agitation at his "boy's" sickness strongly implies that he
was much more than a mere boy attached to his household.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "Gene Seibel" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
03 Dec 2003 10:12:07 AM |
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Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message news:<3FCBC43F.770615CC@serv.net>...
Gene Seibel wrote:
The Jesus mythos
himself adopted a young male lover when the mythos became Hellenized.
Where do you get this?
There are several sources in Christian Scripture.
Probably the most pointed is the frequent mention in the Gospel of John,
where we repeatedly hear about an unnamed disciple "whom Jesus loved." (See
John 13:23-26, 19:26-27, 20:1-10, 21:7a, 20-24)
The Greek agapao used in John 13, 20 & 21 can mean to welcome, to
entertain, to be fond of, or to love dearly. Definitely no proof. The
Greek phileo in John 20 can mean to approve of, to like, sanction, to
treat affectionately or kindly, to welcome, or befriend. Again, no
proof at all.
In Mark, the description of Jesus' arrest includes a comment about a "young
man" who followed Jesus "with nothing but a linen cloth about his body" who
"left the linen cloth and ran away naked." (see Mark 14:51-52)
So the guy was a nut who followed Jesus around. Says nothing.
In Matthew's Gospel, there is the story of the centurion who begs Jesus to
heal someone in his household. (Matthew 8:5-13) Different translations give
"son" or "servant", but the actual Greek word is _pais_. The word literally
translates as "boy." In other examples of Koine Greek (the language of the
Gospels and most of Paul's letters), the word is never used to mean "son"
or "servant"; it is used either in general terms for a pre-pubescent boy
who is not blood kin or as a euphemism for a man's young male lover. The
cenurion's great agitation at his "boy's" sickness strongly implies that he
was much more than a mere boy attached to his household.
Jesus didn't even go to the centurion's house. Doesn't say anything
about Jesus having a 'lover'. Maybe he healed the guys lover. That's
only compassion.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
02 Dec 2003 09:03:47 PM |
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Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Gene Seibel wrote:
The Jesus mythos
himself adopted a young male lover when the mythos became Hellenized.
Where do you get this?
Hell, it's all from the current versions of the Christian mythologies.
The only place to "get this" is straight from the myths. (Hercules also
had a young male lover which he lost to a nymth or demon at the bottom
of a well during the quest for the Fleece. The Jesus mythos sprang not
from a vacuume but from everything which came before them.)
For the Christian myth I see you've covered the most obvious:
There are several sources in Christian Scripture.
Probably the most pointed is the frequent mention in the Gospel of John,
where we repeatedly hear about an unnamed disciple "whom Jesus loved."
(See John 13:23-26, 19:26-27, 20:1-10, 21:7a, 20-24)
What makes that relevant is that this particular young male lover is
identified, singled out, and described differently than all the other
"disciples." The author of the legend is deliberately attempting to
underscore the fact that this boy was Jesus' chosen lover -- and we're
including sex; it's what was done at the time and didn't carry the
stigma it does today.
It was very common for Greeks to adopt young male lovers though it was
rare for Jews unless there was a politization of the Jew. And the
Jesus mythos was tried, found guility, and executed for sedition at
the hands of the Jewish priesthood (stoned to death and then hung in
a tree. The "crucifixion" was a late addition to the myths.) It also
suggests that the Jesus mythos owned property under the occupation of
Rome. If the father was actually a Roman archer, it leads to wonder
whether the Jesus mythos once included stories about him trying to
regain the legal rights to his father's lands or even his salt.
In Mark, the description of Jesus' arrest includes a comment about a "young
man" who followed Jesus "with nothing but a linen cloth about his body" who
"left the linen cloth and ran away naked." (see Mark 14:51-52)
In various versions of the myths his young lover's underpants were
ripped off by one of the arresting officers, and in other versions it
was ripped off by the Jesus mythos who tried to get his lover to stay
and stand with him for his trial for sedition.
In Matthew's Gospel, there is the story of the centurion who begs Jesus to
heal someone in his household. (Matthew 8:5-13) Different translations give
"son" or "servant", but the actual Greek word is _pais_. The word literally
translates as "boy."
It's also relevant to note that ancient forms of English didn't have a
word for "girl" and both male and female youths were called "boy." But
that's not relevant here because pais is Greek, not English. I mention
it because people who are aware of the fact that "boy" used to stand
for young girls also have at times tried to claim that pais ment "girl."
Somewhere in my library I've got a dictionary that has a history of one
of the words offered on every page -- a neat feature; a book I purchased
waiting at SEATAC Airport. It describes the origins of the word "girl"
and notes that the word was late coming to differenciate male from
female youths.
In other examples of Koine Greek (the language of the
Gospels and most of Paul's letters), the word is never used to mean "son"
or "servant"; it is used either in general terms for a pre-pubescent boy
who is not blood kin or as a euphemism for a man's young male lover. The
cenurion's great agitation at his "boy's" sickness strongly implies that
he was much more than a mere boy attached to his household.
Also even though the practice was for Greeks and Hellenized Jews to adopt
young male lovers, that didn't per se make them homosexuals. It was a
question of preference and availability. Females were property and fucked
girls were considered damaged property. The demand was high, the supply
was low -- for Jews under the occupation, any way -- so the solution was
to adopt and care for a young male.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
.
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| User: "Bob Yates" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was BoycottCBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
04 Dec 2003 12:30:49 AM |
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"Fredric L. Rice" wrote:
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Gene Seibel wrote:
The Jesus mythos
himself adopted a young male lover when the mythos became Hellenized.
Where do you get this?
Hell, it's all from the current versions of the Christian mythologies.
The only place to "get this" is straight from the myths. (Hercules also
had a young male lover which he lost to a nymth or demon at the bottom
of a well during the quest for the Fleece. The Jesus mythos sprang not
from a vacuume but from everything which came before them.)
Never hear of Mary Magdelene. Check out the current thinking on her
standing with Jesus.
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| User: "strabo" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
04 Dec 2003 01:31:24 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:44:15 -0800, Gregory Gadow
<techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Gene Seibel wrote:
The Jesus mythos
himself adopted a young male lover when the mythos became Hellenized.
Where do you get this?
There are several sources in Christian Scripture.
Probably the most pointed is the frequent mention in the Gospel of John,
where we repeatedly hear about an unnamed disciple "whom Jesus loved." (See
John 13:23-26, 19:26-27, 20:1-10, 21:7a, 20-24)
In Mark, the description of Jesus' arrest includes a comment about a "young
man" who followed Jesus "with nothing but a linen cloth about his body" who
"left the linen cloth and ran away naked." (see Mark 14:51-52)
How titillating!
I suggest you dispense with the ignorant and repressed KJV and
read the the original script.
In Matthew's Gospel, there is the story of the centurion who begs Jesus to
heal someone in his household. (Matthew 8:5-13) Different translations give
"son" or "servant", but the actual Greek word is _pais_. The word literally
translates as "boy." In other examples of Koine Greek (the language of the
Gospels and most of Paul's letters), the word is never used to mean "son"
or "servant"; it is used either in general terms for a pre-pubescent boy
who is not blood kin or as a euphemism for a man's young male lover. The
cenurion's great agitation at his "boy's" sickness strongly implies that he
was much more than a mere boy attached to his household.
No, the word is relative to the context in which it is used.
Koine Greek is simply informal or common Greek.
From Liddell and Scott's Greek Lexicon:
pais - In relation to Descent, a child, whether son or daughter.
For example, pais paidos - a child's child is a
grandchild.
In relation to Age, a child.
In relation to Condition, a slave, servant, man or maid.
A centurion with a butt boy who entreats a populist Rabbi and
herbalist to have a party? Sounds like a promo from NAMBLA.
The reference is one of Condition. It was as it reads, a
centurion with a valued servant and a medical problem.
Even if there had been such an event it never would have made its
way into religious doctrine.
Homosexuals will stop at nothing to trap the unwary.
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| User: "Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
27 Nov 2003 12:19:55 PM |
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:45 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her
daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did
not aid the poor and needy.
Just like Bush2 and his demonic ilk.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me;
therefore I removed them, when I saw it.
Golly. When women are haughty and do abominable things before me, I
like it. This god must be a sick prude.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent,
omnipresent deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
The same god, according to Hebrew and Christian mythology, throws
temper tantrums like a three-year-old.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
27 Nov 2003 06:55:31 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:45 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent, omnipresent
deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
No, he wasn't caught by surprise. These are the words of God, but written in
the hand of man.
That's what the bible is, you know.
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| User: "Alan Hobson" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
02 Dec 2003 11:28:25 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<jvsbsvs4l0otb64v9umt4thh2i7cs6msro@4ax.com>...
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:45 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent, omnipresent
deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
No, he wasn't caught by surprise. These are the words of God, but written in
the hand of man.
That's what the bible is, you know.
You left part of it out:
These are the words of an imaginary God, put into his mouth by men and
written in the hand of man.
-Alan
aa#1608 BAAWA
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was BoycottCBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
01 Dec 2003 09:04:39 AM |
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duke wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:45 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent, omnipresent
deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
No, he wasn't caught by surprise. These are the words of God, but written in
the hand of man.
That's what the bible is, you know.
Funny, isn't it, how it is the Divine and Unchanging WORD OF GOD when it supports your
bigotry, and something written by the hand of man when it doesn't?
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
01 Dec 2003 01:31:04 PM |
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On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 07:04:39 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:45 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent, omnipresent
deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
No, he wasn't caught by surprise. These are the words of God, but written in
the hand of man.
That's what the bible is, you know.
Funny, isn't it, how it is the Divine and Unchanging WORD OF GOD when it supports your
bigotry, and something written by the hand of man when it doesn't?
And that he can, without fear of error, always tell the difference,
unlike the authors.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
02 Dec 2003 11:17:29 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:31:04 +0100, tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk,
Message ID: <ngtmsvon8g0gngtr09mokdprvr75pp33ch@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 07:04:39 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:45 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent, omnipresent
deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
No, he wasn't caught by surprise. These are the words of God, but written in
the hand of man.
That's what the bible is, you know.
Funny, isn't it, how it is the Divine and Unchanging WORD OF GOD when it supports your
bigotry, and something written by the hand of man when it doesn't?
And that he can, without fear of error, always tell the difference,
unlike the authors.
Yep. Which is why there's something like 20,000 different christian
sects. That holy spook is soooo dependable...(rolls eyes)
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
02 Dec 2003 03:34:58 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:17:29 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:31:04 +0100, tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk,
Message ID: <ngtmsvon8g0gngtr09mokdprvr75pp33ch@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 07:04:39 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:45 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent, omnipresent
deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
No, he wasn't caught by surprise. These are the words of God, but written in
the hand of man.
That's what the bible is, you know.
Funny, isn't it, how it is the Divine and Unchanging WORD OF GOD when it supports your
bigotry, and something written by the hand of man when it doesn't?
And that he can, without fear of error, always tell the difference,
unlike the authors.
Yep. Which is why there's something like 20,000 different christian
sects. That holy spook is soooo dependable...(rolls eyes)
That is only because they will not listen to the holy word of Puke
Face.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
03 Dec 2003 09:48:28 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:34:58 +0100, tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk,
Message ID: <op0qsvo98e1nve4r1665tuf004ejkk889m@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:17:29 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:31:04 +0100, tonyofbexarremovethis@yahoo.dk,
Message ID: <ngtmsvon8g0gngtr09mokdprvr75pp33ch@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 07:04:39 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:45 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent, omnipresent
deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
No, he wasn't caught by surprise. These are the words of God, but written in
the hand of man.
That's what the bible is, you know.
Funny, isn't it, how it is the Divine and Unchanging WORD OF GOD when it supports your
bigotry, and something written by the hand of man when it doesn't?
And that he can, without fear of error, always tell the difference,
unlike the authors.
Yep. Which is why there's something like 20,000 different christian
sects. That holy spook is soooo dependable...(rolls eyes)
That is only because they will not listen to the holy word of Puke
Face.
Who's always giving to RAAALLLLLPPPPHHHH at the porcelin altar.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
02 Dec 2003 11:11:56 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 07:04:39 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>,
Message ID: <3FCB5887.1122A7F8@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism;
duke wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:49:45 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
Here is the RSV translation, with verse 50 to tie things up nicely.
[49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had
pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
[50] They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed
them, when I saw it.
(Putting aside the question of what was so distracting an omnipotent, omnipresent
deity that He was caught by surprise by Sodom's sins.)
No, he wasn't caught by surprise. These are the words of God, but written in
the hand of man.
That's what the bible is, you know.
Funny, isn't it, how it is the Divine and Unchanging WORD OF GOD when it supports your
bigotry, and something written by the hand of man when it doesn't?
Yep. Usual Christian dishonesty.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "usual suspect" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
26 Nov 2003 05:21:19 PM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:
Liberals are not open minded. Neither are your breed of conservatives.
Both are about equally closed minded, and equally dishonest.
Liberals are, by definition, open minded.
From the OED:
4. a. Free from narrow prejudice; open-minded, candid.
Just because Rush is illiterate and uses the wrong word when he means
leftist doesn't mean the rest of us must.
If one reads the Christanic mythologies and the story of the destruction of
Soddom, the _reason_ why it and its sister city was destroyed was because
the people of the cities were not liberals. Their inequity in not being of
a liberal heart was what caused their desert death gods to destroy them.
That's a totally revisionist reading, designed to make
the "facts" fit your beliefs.
Ezekiel 16:48-49 buddy, straight from the mouth of one of the more
important Christian gods. Need I quote the section for you? Yeah,
probably:
Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign
LORD , your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what
you and your daughters have done.
Ezekiel 16 49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She
and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they
did not help the poor and needy.
Ezekiel was a prophet and often spoke in symbols. Consider the actual
account:
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the
city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They
called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring
them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and
said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have
two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them
out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do
anything to these men, for they have come under the protection
of my roof."
"Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow
came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll
treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot
and moved forward to break down the door.
Genesis 19:4-9
Memorize it and stop pretending that Sodom had anything to do with
homosexuality while you're at it.
No, let's get a NT version of events:
JUDE 7: as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a
similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual
immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an
example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
The mention of "strange flesh" is from Greek PORNEIA: forbidden sex.
Here's the NT Greek Lexicon entry (Strong's 4202) for porneia:
illicit sexual intercourse
1. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism,
intercourse with animals etc.
2. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
3. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman;
http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4202
I win.
No, you don't. Sound interpretation of any text, whether it be religious
or secular, requires *context*. The best way to determine context of any
passage is to judge it in light of all other related passages, not
reinterpret the rest of the passages in light of the one. Proper
exegesis also considers whether a passage is symbolic or metaphor, or if
it's literal. Historical information like that in Genesis, and
information conveyed in an epistle like Jude, should be taken with more
of a literal sense than something written in a symbolic or apocalyptic
style. You've only put the cart before the horse.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
26 Nov 2003 01:05:32 AM |
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usual suspect <support@our.troops> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
Liberals are not open minded. Neither are your breed of conservatives.
Both are about equally closed minded, and equally dishonest.
Liberals are, by definition, open minded.
From the OED:
4. a. Free from narrow prejudice; open-minded, candid.
Just because Rush is illiterate and uses the wrong word when he means
leftist doesn't mean the rest of us must.
If one reads the Christanic mythologies and the story of the destruction of
Soddom, the _reason_ why it and its sister city was destroyed was because
the people of the cities were not liberals. Their inequity in not being of
a liberal heart was what caused their desert death gods to destroy them.
That's a totally revisionist reading, designed to make
the "facts" fit your beliefs.
Ezekiel 16:48-49 buddy, straight from the mouth of one of the more
important Christian gods. Need I quote the section for you? Yeah,
probably:
Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign
LORD , your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what
you and your daughters have done.
Ezekiel 16 49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She
and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they
did not help the poor and needy.
Ezekiel was a prophet and often spoke in symbols.
He was a poet and a singer -- something of a Curt Cobaine of his time.
To "prophecy" ment, at the time, to sing -- hence the magic when this
same singer sang to a field of bones of dead warrior heros.
Consider the actual account:
Instead of the words of Jesus Christ, the foundation upon which the
Christian religion rests? Jesus specifically stated what it was that
Sodom and Gomorra were destoryed for. Jesus enumerate the "inequity"
that justified and motivated their destruction.
So you're going to ignore what your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was
the reason why they were destroyed and pull something totally out of
context, cross out your Lord's words, and cut-and-paste over them:
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the
city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They
called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring
them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
If you want to pretend that this was why Jesus ordered the cities to
be destroyed -- contadicting what he says in Ezekiel -- you'll need to
provide the verse.
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and
said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have
two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them
out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do
anything to these men, for they have come under the protection
of my roof."
Yes, that's certainly a good reason to execute _Lot_ and the rapists,
yet once again, you get to provide verse reference which denies what
Jesus said earlier.
Memorize it and stop pretending that Sodom had anything to do with
homosexuality while you're at it.
No, let's get a NT version of events:
No, let's trust what Jesus says was the reason why they were destroyed.
After you return to Jesus, then we can examine your need to hate and
engage in bigotry against fags.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
"In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the
sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."
- Idi Dada Amin
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
02 Dec 2003 11:20:38 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:05:32 GMT, (Fredric L.
Rice), Message ID: <vsb8kbmjtm4eee@corp.supernews.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
usual suspect <support@our.troops> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
Liberals are not open minded. Neither are your breed of conservatives.
Both are about equally closed minded, and equally dishonest.
Liberals are, by definition, open minded.
From the OED:
4. a. Free from narrow prejudice; open-minded, candid.
Just because Rush is illiterate and uses the wrong word when he means
leftist doesn't mean the rest of us must.
If one reads the Christanic mythologies and the story of the destruction of
Soddom, the _reason_ why it and its sister city was destroyed was because
the people of the cities were not liberals. Their inequity in not being of
a liberal heart was what caused their desert death gods to destroy them.
That's a totally revisionist reading, designed to make
the "facts" fit your beliefs.
Ezekiel 16:48-49 buddy, straight from the mouth of one of the more
important Christian gods. Need I quote the section for you? Yeah,
probably:
Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign
LORD , your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what
you and your daughters have done.
Ezekiel 16 49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She
and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they
did not help the poor and needy.
Ezekiel was a prophet and often spoke in symbols.
He was a poet and a singer -- something of a Curt Cobaine of his time.
To "prophecy" ment, at the time, to sing -- hence the magic when this
same singer sang to a field of bones of dead warrior heros.
Consider the actual account:
Instead of the words of Jesus Christ, the foundation upon which the
Christian religion rests? Jesus specifically stated what it was that
Sodom and Gomorra were destoryed for. Jesus enumerate the "inequity"
that justified and motivated their destruction.
Which means the Fanatics in the White House would be toast, if the Bible
and "Jesus" had any credibility.
So you're going to ignore what your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was
the reason why they were destroyed and pull something totally out of
context, cross out your Lord's words, and cut-and-paste over them:
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the
city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They
called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring
them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
If you want to pretend that this was why Jesus ordered the cities to
be destroyed -- contadicting what he says in Ezekiel -- you'll need to
provide the verse.
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and
said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have
two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them
out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do
anything to these men, for they have come under the protection
of my roof."
Yes, that's certainly a good reason to execute _Lot_ and the rapists,
yet once again, you get to provide verse reference which denies what
Jesus said earlier.
Memorize it and stop pretending that Sodom had anything to do with
homosexuality while you're at it.
No, let's get a NT version of events:
No, let's trust what Jesus says was the reason why they were destroyed.
After you return to Jesus, then we can examine your need to hate and
engage in bigotry against fags.
He's merely following the 'example' "Jesus" set.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
02 Dec 2003 09:08:00 PM |
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stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:05:32 GMT, (Fredric L.
Rice), Message ID: <vsb8kbmjtm4eee@corp.supernews.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
usual suspect <support@our.troops> wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
Liberals are not open minded. Neither are your breed of conservatives.
Both are about equally closed minded, and equally dishonest.
Liberals are, by definition, open minded.
From the OED:
4. a. Free from narrow prejudice; open-minded, candid.
Just because Rush is illiterate and uses the wrong word when he means
leftist doesn't mean the rest of us must.
If one reads the Christanic mythologies and the story of the destruction of
Soddom, the _reason_ why it and its sister city was destroyed was because
the people of the cities were not liberals. Their inequity in not being of
a liberal heart was what caused their desert death gods to destroy them.
That's a totally revisionist reading, designed to make
the "facts" fit your beliefs.
Ezekiel 16:48-49 buddy, straight from the mouth of one of the more
important Christian gods. Need I quote the section for you? Yeah,
probably:
Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign
LORD , your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what
you and your daughters have done.
Ezekiel 16 49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She
and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they
did not help the poor and needy.
Ezekiel was a prophet and often spoke in symbols.
He was a poet and a singer -- something of a Curt Cobaine of his time.
To "prophecy" ment, at the time, to sing -- hence the magic when this
same singer sang to a field of bones of dead warrior heros.
Consider the actual account:
Instead of the words of Jesus Christ, the foundation upon which the
Christian religion rests? Jesus specifically stated what it was that
Sodom and Gomorra were destoryed for. Jesus enumerate the "inequity"
that justified and motivated their destruction.
Which means the Fanatics in the White House would be toast, if the Bible
and "Jesus" had any credibility.
Yep, that was the whole swatting point of this thread. Ths guy here
who tried to deny Jesus even before the ***** crowed _once_ never did
get back to us about this. Jesus -- singing through Ezekiel -- told
us that the cities were destroyed because the people were Republicans.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
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| User: "Rat & Swan" |
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| Title: Re: Sodom destroyed for being Republican (Was Boycott CBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
27 Nov 2003 01:18:30 AM |
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usual suspect wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
<snip>
If one reads the Christanic mythologies and the story of the
destruction of
Soddom, the _reason_ why it and its sister city was destroyed was
because
the people of the cities were not liberals. Their inequity in not
being of
a liberal heart was what caused their desert death gods to destroy
them.
<snip>
Ezekiel 16:48-49 buddy, straight from the mouth of one of the more
important Christian gods. Need I quote the section for you? Yeah,
probably:
Ezekiel 16 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign
LORD , your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you
and your daughters have done.
Ezekiel 16 49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She
and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they
did not help the poor and needy.
Ezekiel was a prophet and often spoke in symbols.
I.e. -- it's symbolic when you want to choose your entree from the
cafeteria, and literal when I want to choose mine....
Consider the actual
account:
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the
city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They
called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring
them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and
said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have
two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them
out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do
anything to these men, for they have come under the protection
of my roof."
That is, under the cultural obligations of hospitality. Gang-rape has
been used as a form of humiliation, even by nominally "straight" men,
in many macho, patriarchal cultures/groups. Think: prison, military,
etc. Punking someone is often seen as the most humiliating thing one
can do to him, precisely because it brings his sexuality (manhood)
into question.
I'm glad Lot wasn't MY dad...or husband. So much for the equal place
of women in Biblical culture.
<snip>
No, you don't. Sound interpretation of any text, whether it be religious
or secular, requires *context*.
Right. And the context of other passages indicates the issue was
hospitality codes, not homosexuality as we know it today (except
in prison, etc.)
The best way to determine context of any
passage is to judge it in light of all other related passages, not
reinterpret the rest of the passages in light of the one. Proper
exegesis also considers whether a passage is symbolic or metaphor, or if
it's literal. Historical information like that in Genesis, and
information conveyed in an epistle like Jude, should be taken with more
of a literal sense than something written in a symbolic or apocalyptic
style. You've only put the cart before the horse.
Rat
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Related Articles |
Why Sodom was destroyed
Sodom and Gomorrah Was Not The Beginning
"Sodom, Sodomy, Sodomite, Sodomize"
Re: For those of you who have deluded yourselves into thinking that the story of Sodom isn't really talking about homosexuals, read the following: the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had completely turned away from God, and whenever that happens, homose
For those of you who have deluded yourselves into thinking that the story of Sodom isn't really talking about homosexuals, read the following: the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had completely turned away from God, and whenever that happens, homosexual
A gay hooker calls San Francisco "Sodom and Gomorrah."
America is Sodom! America is Gomorrah!
Sodom = Sodomy to Baal
| O Lord, Sodom Has Reborn
Re: If that isn't Sodom it'll have to do, until the real thing comes along...
Sodom and Gomorrah found
Sodom and Gomorrah revisited
Sodom & Gomorah Found! Again!
Sodom and Gomorrah were given as warnings.
Proofs of LORD Almighty GOD: Pastorio was convicted by the Holy Ghost on the eve of Halloween, stricken on the eve of Christmas, and destroyed on April Fool's day, and satan feigns courage in his boast that he is still alive.
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