| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Broderick Neilsen" |
| Date: |
03 Sep 2005 11:12:52 PM |
| Object: |
Someday... |
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 01:41:16 AM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> writes:
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Why do you assume we believe you?
Elf
--
Elf M. Sternberg, Immanentizing the Eschaton since 1988
http://www.drizzle.com/~elf/
"The apocalypse may be closer at hand than even John Derbyshire thinks:
what the hell is Elf Sternberg doing reading Derb's columns?"
-- Charles Murtaugh
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| User: "Zeuss" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 06:44:41 AM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Someday you will stand before GOD.
Really? Which one?
How will He judge you?
Loaded question. This presupposes the existence of the god of your choice,
then all your arguments are based on this presupposition. In fact, even
you conclusion is based upon the presupposition. The correct term for
this, the most common Christian logical fallacy is known as Circulum In
Demonstrando.
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
You opinion, of course. What if I'm a Zoroastrian? I wouldn't think
"christ" is the answer to anything. But since I'm an atheist, I know for a
fact that "Christ" is a mix-'n-match god, based on Zoroastrianism, and a
host of other pagan delights such as Horus, Osiris, Krishna, Dionyseus,
etc...
Zeuss
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| User: "Bonestructure" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 01:51:01 AM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
The question is, how will I judge HIM
--
It must be extremely difficult to be the president right now. When he
started his first term, he said a few stupid things that were probably
just accidents. Now that people are tracking them daily on websites,
though, think of the pressure he's under to come up with new stupid stuff
every day.
http://www.bonestructure.net
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 01:31:00 AM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
Well, what do you know, another fool xian who thinks that we believe in his
imaginary god enough to be scared about meeting him after we die.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
03 Sep 2005 11:24:54 PM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
He will have some tough questions to answer, that's certain. Why did He
let so many die when a thought could have saved them? Why do His followers
cause such mayhem in His name? Why have His chosen people be encouraged,
nay ordered, to commit such terrible acts?
No, only the fact that He does not exist acquits Him of these horrible
crimes.
- Baptist Saviours of Tennessee <---- I fixed your spelling error.
Bigoted bumpkins of the boondocks is more like it.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? - Who will watch the watchers?"
-- Juvenal
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| User: "Shiflet" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 01:29:10 AM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD.
No I won't, because I don't do drugs so I won't have that hallucination.
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
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| User: "G-Ride" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
03 Sep 2005 11:36:46 PM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
That's got to be the funniest fucking thing I've read thus far today.
--
Aloha,
G-Ride
"Like a quarrelling group of monkeys on a leaky boat, armed with sticks of
dynamite, we are now embarked on an uncertain journey."
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| User: "Shane \Remo D.\ Dallmann" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 12:30:15 AM |
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news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
That's got to be the funniest fucking thing I've read thus far today.
What? The quote? Or the fact that they can't even get this ancient POEM
right? It's supposed to go "Death is SURE" and "Christ the CURE!"
--
_____________________________
"What a day!"
The Baron--"Flesh for Frankenstein"
_____________________________
_____________________________
"G-Ride" <gride42nospammotherfucker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3nuqcaF3ctdkU1@individual.net...
"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
--
Aloha,
G-Ride
"Like a quarrelling group of monkeys on a leaky boat, armed with sticks of
dynamite, we are now embarked on an uncertain journey."
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| User: "GoDrex" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 03:29:04 AM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
someday there will be no need for your myths
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| User: "JK Arswell" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
05 Sep 2005 09:39:20 PM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
... not too bad, but I reckon my triple Pirouette could do with some
work.
--
JK Arswell
"Dogs don't smash boats, or break paddles in half ... or do they?"
The kids ponder whether a psychotic pooch could be behind their mounting
misfortune in HUMUNGOUS (1981)
HYSTERIA LIVES!: http://www.hysteria-lives.co.uk
7 years of slasher trash with panache!
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
06 Sep 2005 01:11:20 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:39:20 GMT, "JK Arswell"
<justin_kerswell@blueyonder.co.ukspammenot> drained his beer, leaned
back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
... not too bad, but I reckon my triple Pirouette could do with some
work.
But your footwork was excellent, and you just nailed that double
Sukow.
My wife turned me into a skating geek.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 12:33:01 AM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
Your non-existent sky pixie won't be judging anyone,
Broddie, for the simple reason that it doesn't exist.
Life is short
Death is certain (so are taxes)
The cause can be age, illness, accident,
murder, suicide, etc.
The only thing you can do about it is live a good, self-
fulfilling and helpful life. Or, like Broddie, you can be
a jerk.
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| User: "Mickey" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 12:57:44 AM |
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"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
Your non-existent sky pixie won't be judging anyone,
Broddie, for the simple reason that it doesn't exist.
Or perhaps you can look beyond the end of your nose, and realize there just
may be more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your
philosophy.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 12:59:04 AM |
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Mickey wrote:
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
Your non-existent sky pixie won't be judging anyone,
Broddie, for the simple reason that it doesn't exist.
Or perhaps you can look beyond the end of your nose, and realize there just
may be more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your
philosophy.
But, only if the religious did that, they'd know that this universe was
NOT created for them.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "If God had intended us to walk, he wouldn't *
* have invented roller skates." --Willy Wonka *
****************************************************
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
09 Sep 2005 12:26:01 AM |
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On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:57:44 -0500, Mickey <mickeys@hotpop.com> wrote:
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
Your non-existent sky pixie won't be judging anyone,
Broddie, for the simple reason that it doesn't exist.
Or perhaps you can look beyond the end of your nose, and realize there just
may be more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your
philosophy.
There is no Heaven, bronze-age dumbfuck.
Secondly, atheism isn't a philosophy. Its a lack of theism.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
05 Sep 2005 01:16:40 AM |
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On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:33:01 -0400, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
Your non-existent sky pixie won't be judging anyone,
Broddie, for the simple reason that it doesn't exist.
Does too...Spiderman told me so.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "bod" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
03 Sep 2005 11:36:11 PM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
ill just say i did my best...i dont think im that bad to be honest...and if
you dont let me in your a wanker and ill just have to have a red hot poker
shoved up my arse..
--
regards from BOD!
"dont worry yoko, its only a friggin water pist...."
JOHN LENNON 1980
see bod pissing in the wind at...
www.bodland.co.uk the home of bod!
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
04 Sep 2005 01:01:58 PM |
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"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
Sin is the cause of death?
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| User: "erikc" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
05 Sep 2005 07:12:38 PM |
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On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:01:58 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
Sin is the cause of death?
If that is the case, then why did jesus die? And the pope?
erikc
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
05 Sep 2005 08:51:24 PM |
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"erikc" <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:346ph1pc2aqag1e35av4fjq7gs47dhlf3a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:01:58 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com>
wrote:
"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
Sin is the cause of death?
If that is the case, then why did jesus die? And the pope?
erikc
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
What about people who get hit by buses crossing the road!
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
09 Sep 2005 12:37:15 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:12:38 -0600, erikc <firewevr@airmail.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:01:58 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Broderick Neilsen" <baptistsaviourstenn@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125789172.946678.205980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Someday you will stand before GOD. How will He judge you?
Life is short
Death is certain
Sin the cause
Christ the solution
- Baptist Saviours of Tennesse
Sin is the cause of death?
If that is the case, then why did jesus die? And the pope?
"God" is an omni fuckup.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Charles R. Kaiser" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
05 Sep 2005 07:27:01 PM |
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erikc wrote:
If that is the case, then why did jesus die? And the pope?
Jesus died to end the need for constant sacrifice as called for in the
Old Testament.
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the
same sacrifices which can never take away sins. 12But when Christ had
offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the
right hand of God, 13waiting from the that time until his enemies should
be made a footstool for his feet. 14For by a single offering he has
perfected for all time those who are being sanctified."
Hebrews 10:11-14 ESV
If you believe what is said in the Bible, your corporeal life on earth
is only an eye blink, as you are an eternal being. So, ideally
(depending upon what you thought about the JPII), the Pope only died in
an earthly sense. In a spiritual sense, he will live forever.
--
___ ____________
\ \/ ___ ___/ Charles R. Kaiser MFA 1991
\ / / / -- GO HOKIES! --
\ / / /
\/ /__/ Technical Theatre & Design - fewer actors, more beer
Direct all incoming fire to: 17TPJ2411274412
Zone 17T Zone CM -81 E 624112 N 4874412
44° 00'44.55" N, 79° 27'05.92" W 44.0123706, -79.45164444
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| User: "Alex W." |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
05 Sep 2005 11:38:38 PM |
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"Charles R. Kaiser" <ckaiser@aci.on.ca> wrote in message
news:3o3kg7F4480qU1@individual.net...
erikc wrote:
If that is the case, then why did jesus die? And the pope?
Jesus died to end the need for constant sacrifice as called for in
the
Old Testament.
You don't think such a nice Jewish boy could have been driven to it by
a nagging mother?
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
05 Sep 2005 09:32:21 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:27:01 -0400, "Charles R. Kaiser"
<ckaiser@aci.on.ca> drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism
beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
erikc wrote:
If that is the case, then why did jesus die? And the pope?
Jesus died to end the need for constant sacrifice as called for in the
Old Testament.
OK, and an all powerful God couldn't just say "stop, itys no longer
needed"? You are acting like there was some higher law that even your
God was forced to follow. Look at your wording... sacrifices that
were required, and the only way to stop them was another sacrifice?
sorry, doesn't work.
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the
same sacrifices which can never take away sins. 12But when Christ had
offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the
right hand of God, 13waiting from the that time until his enemies should
be made a footstool for his feet. 14For by a single offering he has
perfected for all time those who are being sanctified."
Hebrews 10:11-14 ESV
An all-powerful deity would have no need for such a gesture. Simply
saying "you're forgiven, for I have said so" would be enough.
If you believe what is said in the Bible, your corporeal life on earth
is only an eye blink, as you are an eternal being. So, ideally
(depending upon what you thought about the JPII), the Pope only died in
an earthly sense. In a spiritual sense, he will live forever.
So, if this is the case, why do Christians mourn? Why do they fight
death? I would think being diagnosed with terminal cancewr would
cause someone with your world view to sing and dance in the streets!
After all, that diagnosis means that you'll be in Heaven soon, right?
And within an eye blink, all yopur loved ones will join you?
Please explain why Christians mourn, and treat funerals as sad
occasions, please.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Charles R. Kaiser" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
06 Sep 2005 02:36:18 AM |
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Douglas Berry wrote:
OK, and an all powerful God couldn't just say "stop, itys no longer
needed"? You are acting like there was some higher law that even your
God was forced to follow. Look at your wording... sacrifices that
were required, and the only way to stop them was another sacrifice?
In a sense, that's what he did. Because Jesus *WAS* God and he offered
himself as a gift to be accepted by mankind as a way toward salvation.
"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who,
though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a
thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a
servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human
form, 8he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross." Philip. 2:5-8 ESV
sorry, doesn't work.
Works for me.
An all-powerful deity would have no need for such a gesture. Simply
saying "you're forgiven, for I have said so" would be enough.
You are only forgiven if you accept the "gift" of his sacrifice.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever
believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
John 3:16 ESV
So, if this is the case, why do Christians mourn? Why do they fight
death? I would think being diagnosed with terminal cancewr would
cause someone with your world view to sing and dance in the streets!
After all, that diagnosis means that you'll be in Heaven soon, right?
And within an eye blink, all yopur loved ones will join you?
Please explain why Christians mourn, and treat funerals as sad
occasions, please.
Not all Christians treat funerals as sad occasions. Many are quite
joyous celebrations of lives lived to the fullest. But you are right
that many are quite sad, but that should not be the the way it should
be! It is natural and human to mourn, but it should be seen more as an
"until I see you again" rather than a "goodbye forever!" People in my
family cry at funerals for the same reason that they cry at the airport.
I can't speak for all Christians, I can only speak for the ones that I
know. None that I know fear death, but none will rush toward it
needlessly either. I am sure that I will go in the Lord's good time,
and there is nothing that I can do to change it.
"14 I praise you, for I am fearfully
and wonderfully made.
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from
you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths
of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed
substance;
in your book were written, every
one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there were none
of them.
17 How precious to me are your
thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!"
Psalm 139:14-17 ESV
If my view of the universe turns out to be 100% wrong, I have lost
nothing, but I have gained peace and happiness here on earth for myself
and my family and many other friends. Hopefully I have helped others
along the way both through charitable giving, good works and through
mentorship. I'll never know. . . I guess that death will just be the
end. . . Just like turning off a light. Right?
If my view of the universe is right. . .
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and
lose his own soul?" Mark 8:36 KJV
--
___ ____________
\ \/ ___ ___/ Charles R. Kaiser MFA 1991
\ / / / -- GO HOKIES! --
\ / / /
\/ /__/ Technical Theatre & Design - fewer actors, more beer
Direct all incoming fire to: 17TPJ2411274412
Zone 17T Zone CM -81 E 624112 N 4874412
44° 00'44.55" N, 79° 27'05.92" W 44.0123706, -79.45164444
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
06 Sep 2005 03:15:17 AM |
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"Charles R. Kaiser" <ckaiser@aci.on.ca> wrote in
news:3o4dl3F41h2aU1@individual.net:
Douglas Berry wrote:
OK, and an all powerful God couldn't just say "stop, it's no longer
needed"? You are acting like there was some higher law that even
your God was forced to follow. Look at your wording... sacrifices
that were required, and the only way to stop them was another
sacrifice?
In a sense, that's what he did. Because Jesus *WAS* God and he
offered himself as a gift to be accepted by mankind as a way toward
salvation.
Why not simply *forgive* mankind outright? An all-powerful, all merciful
God ought to be able to handle something so simple. I teach eighth grade
and have two daughters. I manage it a couple of dozen times a day.
"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God
a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of
a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human
form, 8he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross." Philip. 2:5-8 ESV
To what end? If forgiveness is so important, if mercy is God's nature,
why not just forgive mankind outright?
sorry, doesn't work.
Works for me.
Only because you don't think, you just believe. That's part of the
sickness that is Christianity.
An all-powerful deity would have no need for such a gesture.
Simply
saying "you're forgiven, for I have said so" would be enough.
You are only forgiven if you accept the "gift" of his sacrifice.
That's not forgiveness or mercy, it's payment for service rendered.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever
believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
John 3:16 ESV
Gave His Son to who? Himself? He sacrificed Himself to Himself so that
He could forgive His own creations for violating His own rules. Except
that He didn't sacrifice anything, because He never dies, He was just
inconvenienced for a few hours.
Doesn't work.
So, if this is the case, why do Christians mourn? Why do they fight
death? I would think being diagnosed with terminal cancer would
cause someone with your world view to sing and dance in the streets!
After all, that diagnosis means that you'll be in Heaven soon, right?
And within an eye blink, all your loved ones will join you?
Please explain why Christians mourn, and treat funerals as sad
occasions, please.
Not all Christians treat funerals as sad occasions. Many are quite
joyous celebrations of lives lived to the fullest. But you are right
that many are quite sad, but that should not be the way it should
be! It is natural and human to mourn, but it should be seen more as
an "until I see you again" rather than a "good-bye forever!" People in
my family cry at funerals for the same reason that they cry at the
airport.
Your family cries in airports? Why?
I can't speak for all Christians, I can only speak for the ones that I
know. None that I know fear death, but none will rush toward it
needlessly either. I am sure that I will go in the Lord's good time,
and there is nothing that I can do to change it.
True, if God exists. But why pray? To ask God to change His Devine
plan, a plan laid out before the creation of the universe, just for you?
[snip Bible crap]
If my view of the universe turns out to be 100% wrong, I have lost
nothing, but I have gained peace and happiness here on earth for
myself and my family and many other friends. Hopefully I have helped
others along the way both through charitable giving, good works and
through mentorship. I'll never know. . . I guess that death will
just be the end. . . Just like turning off a light. Right?
You have lost your life to a lie, working toward that which is not, and
missed every opportunity to understand that which is real, to base your
efforts on achieving real progress, real goals. And, given free reign,
you'll have burned a lot of heretics at the stake.
If my view of the universe is right. . .
Then your God is worthy of the contempt we hold Him in, and we will tell
Him that. We are not groveling cowards.
[snip more Bible crap]
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "Charles R. Kaiser" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
06 Sep 2005 10:43:50 PM |
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Enkidu the Atheist wrote:
Why not simply *forgive* mankind outright? An all-powerful, all merciful
God ought to be able to handle something so simple. I teach eighth grade
and have two daughters. I manage it a couple of dozen times a day.
Why not simply pass all of your students without any of them doing any
of their required work? What have they learned?
To what end? If forgiveness is so important, if mercy is God's nature,
why not just forgive mankind outright?
To the end of understanding that sin is wrong and that one should try to
live a life as free of sin as possible. I'm not perfect by any means.
I sin every day, but I do try.
Only because you don't think, you just believe. That's part of the
sickness that is Christianity.
That's a very unfair statement to make when you don't even know me.
Being a Christian requires quite a bit of thought an study. Science
more and more doesn't seem to disprove a creator, it *begs* for one.
That's not forgiveness or mercy, it's payment for service rendered.
All you have to do is accept that Christ died for your sins. How is
that a payment?
Your family cries in airports? Why?
Because people are going away for a journey and they will be missed
while they are gone. Sorry that you seemed to miss the point of that one.
True, if God exists. But why pray? To ask God to change His Devine
plan, a plan laid out before the creation of the universe, just for you?
To ask God for the strength to change the change the things that I can,
the strength the accept the things that I can't, and the wisdom to know
the difference. Cliché, I know, but that's what prayer should boil down
to. I pray for the wisdom to make good choices, and the strength to
accept the trails that I face in life. Some people pray for their lotto
numbers to come up. That would be a poor thing to pray for.
[snip Bible crap]
Just a note that you snipped would have been fine. I would have
inferred that you think the Bible is crap by your posting handle.
You have lost your life to a lie, working toward that which is not, and
missed every opportunity to understand that which is real, to base your
efforts on achieving real progress, real goals. And, given free reign,
you'll have burned a lot of heretics at the stake.
I have lost nothing because I have worked toward a goal of living a life
of being happy, having a comfortable home, a loving wife and a caring
family. Your live the life and values that you want to live, and leave
me to mine. My overall goals are the betterment of my neighbourhood,
town, province, country, and world. As I stated, I strive toward those
goals by charitable giving, good works (I will be going down to do work
in the hurricane zone in a few weeks time), and by mentoring), and in
other ways as they are presented. I am totally confused by your last
comment. I don't feel the need to burn anyone at the stake. Granted
that has been a horrible feature of so-called "Christian" movements in
the past, but we can find negative things to say about any group if we
are looking to insult.
Then your God is worthy of the contempt we hold Him in, and we will tell
Him that. We are not groveling cowards.
Then I'm sure that you will get your chance to do so.
--
___ ____________
\ \/ ___ ___/ Charles R. Kaiser MFA 1991
\ / / / -- GO HOKIES! --
\ / / /
\/ /__/ Technical Theatre & Design - fewer actors, more beer
Direct all incoming fire to: 17TPJ2411274412
Zone 17T Zone CM -81 E 624112 N 4874412
44° 00'44.55" N, 79° 27'05.92" W 44.0123706, -79.45164444
.
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
07 Sep 2005 12:34:07 AM |
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"Charles R. Kaiser" <ckaiser@aci.on.ca> wrote in
news:3o6kd8F4fbliU1@individual.net:
Enkidu the Atheist wrote:
Why not simply *forgive* mankind outright? An all-powerful, all
merciful God ought to be able to handle something so simple. I teach
eighth grade and have two daughters. I manage it a couple of dozen
times a day.
Why not simply pass all of your students without any of them doing any
of their required work? What have they learned?
Why not beat the ***** out of each one when he forgets his homework?
To what end? If forgiveness is so important, if mercy is God's
nature, why not just forgive mankind outright?
To the end of understanding that sin is wrong and that one should try
to live a life as free of sin as possible. I'm not perfect by any
means. I sin every day, but I do try.
Define "sin". Include why a sin is inherently wrong.
Only because you don't think, you just believe. That's part of the
sickness that is Christianity.
That's a very unfair statement to make when you don't even know me.
Being a Christian requires quite a bit of thought and study. Science
more and more doesn't seem to disprove a creator, it *begs* for one.
Science does no such thing. It explains more each year, more of what
used to be evidence of a god. Lightning is no longer Thor's domain,
heaven is no longer beyond the crystal spheres, hell is no longer in the
bowels of the Earth. Creatures were not all created on a single day,
woman was not created from a man's rib. Men don't have one fewer rib
than women.
That's not forgiveness or mercy, it's payment for service rendered.
All you have to do is accept that Christ died for your sins. How is
that a payment?
I do what I'm told to do, I get something. I do not, and I don't get
that thing. It's a quid pro quo, a bargain, a trade of one thing for
another, a payment by God for a service rendered. That isn't
forgiveness.
Your family cries in airports? Why?
Because people are going away for a journey and they will be missed
while they are gone. Sorry that you seemed to miss the point of that
one.
No, I just wonder why you don't call or use email to keep in touch.
True, if God exists. But why pray? To ask God to change His Devine
plan, a plan laid out before the creation of the universe, just for
you?
To ask God for the strength to change the change the things that I
can, the strength the accept the things that I can't, and the wisdom
to know the difference. Cliché, I know, but that's what prayer should
boil down to. I pray for the wisdom to make good choices, and the
strength to accept the trails that I face in life. Some people pray
for their lotto numbers to come up. That would be a poor thing to
pray for.
If He wanted you to be strong, if that was part of the plan, you would be
strong. If He wanted you to be a sniveling weakling, that to is part of
the plan. Why would you pray to God to make you other than how He made
you?
[snip Bible crap]
Just a note that you snipped would have been fine. I would have
inferred that you think the Bible is crap by your posting handle.
Don't bother using the Bible to support Christianity unless you can
demonstrate it's validity. If the Bible is false, then so is
Christianity. They stand or fall together, one does not prove the other.
You have lost your life to a lie, working toward that which is not,
and missed every opportunity to understand that which is real, to
base your efforts on achieving real progress, real goals. And, given
free reign, you'll have burned a lot of heretics at the stake.
I have lost nothing because I have worked toward a goal of living a
life of being happy, having a comfortable home, a loving wife and a
caring family.
None of which require Christianity. If those are your goals, great. Why
Jesus?
Your live the life and values that you want to live,
and leave me to mine.
But you don't, and Christians in general don't leave me to live my own
life. They push prayer into government and school, Christianity into
school curriculum, spand my tax dollars on religion in a hundred ways.
My overall goals are the betterment of my
neighbourhood, town, province, country, and world. As I stated, I
strive toward those goals by charitable giving, good works (I will be
going down to do work in the hurricane zone in a few weeks time), and
by mentoring), and in other ways as they are presented. I am totally
confused by your last comment. I don't feel the need to burn anyone
at the stake. Granted that has been a horrible feature of so-called
"Christian" movements in the past, but we can find negative things to
say about any group if we are looking to insult.
Your kind of people have burned my kind of people for two millenia. I
don't trust you to leave me to my atheist ways if you had the power to
punish me. History teaches me that "true believers" are dangerous.
Then your God is worthy of the contempt we hold Him in, and we will
tell Him that. We are not groveling cowards.
Then I'm sure that you will get your chance to do so.
Nope. Dead is dead. The reward of good works here and now is a better
here and now.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
[I]f I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to
save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the
pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous
atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose
every deed is foul, foul, foul.
-- Isaac Asimov, I. Asimov: A Memoir
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| User: "Alex W." |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
06 Sep 2005 11:47:17 PM |
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"Charles R. Kaiser" <ckaiser@aci.on.ca> wrote in message
news:3o6kd8F4fbliU1@individual.net...
Enkidu the Atheist wrote:
Why not simply *forgive* mankind outright? An all-powerful, all
merciful
God ought to be able to handle something so simple. I teach
eighth grade
and have two daughters. I manage it a couple of dozen times a
day.
Why not simply pass all of your students without any of them doing
any
of their required work? What have they learned?
Ever hear of Montessori or Steiner schools?
To what end? If forgiveness is so important, if mercy is God's
nature,
why not just forgive mankind outright?
To the end of understanding that sin is wrong and that one should
try to
live a life as free of sin as possible. I'm not perfect by any
means.
I sin every day, but I do try.
Sin can only exist once you declare it to be such.
Only because you don't think, you just believe. That's part of
the
sickness that is Christianity.
That's a very unfair statement to make when you don't even know me.
Being a Christian requires quite a bit of thought an study. Science
more and more doesn't seem to disprove a creator, it *begs* for one.
Does it also require the arrogance to believe that you picked the one
right deity out of all the thousands of candidates? Christianity is
no more and no less believable or ridiculous than any other religion.
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| User: "Charles R. Kaiser" |
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| Title: Re: Someday... |
07 Sep 2005 01:56:12 AM |
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Alex W. wrote:
Does it also require the arrogance to believe that you picked the one
right deity out of all the thousands of candidates? Christianity is
no more and no less believable or ridiculous than any other religion.
Well, you have to pick one or none. Or I suppose that you could be an
Omnitheist, but that seems like such a cop-out to me. I'm not telling
anyone what they have to be, I'm just telling people what I am and why.
If you are comfortable being what you are, then live your life.
--
___ ____________
\ \/ ___ ___/ Charles R. Kaiser MFA 1991
\ / / / -- GO HOKIES! --
\ / / /
\/ /__/ Technical Theatre & Design - fewer actors, more beer
Direct all incoming fire to: 17TPJ2411274412
Zone 17T Zone CM -81 E 624112 N 4874412
44° 00'44.55" N, 79° 27'05.92" W 44.0123706, -79.45164444
.
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