Someone Help Mike Painter

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Jason Gastrich"
Date:	19 Feb 2005 06:31:38 PM
Object:	Someone Help Mike Painter

Mike Painter has been chasing me around saying he wants me to answer
questions. Well, as most of you know, I've been trying to get these
questions out of him and he won't tell them to me. As delirious as this is,
I'm hoping someone can help Mike either recall or ask his questions.
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free
indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ
has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.

User: "Budikka666"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 04:59:36 AM

I've frequently asked you questions from which you've run. It's your
trademark, so don't come whining that someone isn't doing your work for
you. That's what Google is for. If you want to truly answer the
questions, find them on Google and answer them. Or do you lack the
intellectual wherewithal and honesty to do that?
Budikka
.

User: "Jason Gastrich"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 11:45:47 AM

Budikka666 wrote:

I've frequently asked you questions from which you've run.

Either:
1. Prove it.
2. Repost them.
3. Admit you're lying.

It's your
trademark, so don't come whining that someone isn't doing your work
for you.

Nobody knows what Mike's questions are. He doesn't even know.
I think Mike had some long, rambling paragraphs. I don't think he had any
questions and this is probably why he cannot ask succint questions. He
doesn't have any. He wanted to hear himself talk just like he wants to hear
himself talk, now.
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.

User: "kathryn"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 12:13:00 PM

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f14Sd.7308$VD5.6109@twister.socal.rr.com...

Budikka666 wrote:

I've frequently asked you questions from which you've run.

Either:

1. Prove it.

2. Repost them.

3. Admit you're lying.

It's your
trademark, so don't come whining that someone isn't doing your work
for you.

You either have trouble reading or are particularily stupid. Some of the
questions were reposted for you, I had no trouble understanding them. Maybe
it's because you're too lazy to reread the original discussion.
Questions from Budikka...http://tinyurl.com/3oqnn
Really...it's not that difficult
1. The Bible claims the entire universe was created out of nothing
and the Earth created and populated in a period of six, literal 24
hour successive days. Are you saying this is true? If so, please
post your three best evidences supporting such a claim. If not,
please withdraw your claim that he Bible is inerrant.
2. Has everyone sinned or not? According to John 15:22, there were at
least some people who had no sins until Jesus talked to them, and from
that point on they were apparently awash in sin: "If I had not come
and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak
for their sin." But Paul, the inventor of christianity, said, "For
all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Ro 3:23). So
which is it?
3. How many people were at the tomb of Jesus when it was discovered
to be empty? Was it Miriam of Magdala and Miriam the mother of
Jacobus (according to Matthew), or was it Miriam of Magdala, an
unnamed israelite or Christian whose name became Joanna/Salome over
retellings, Miriam the mother of Jacobus, and a host of women
(according to Mark/Luke), or was it Miriam of Magdala alone (according
to John)?
4. Why are there two different genealogies, different names, different
lengths, given for Jesus, one in Matthew 1, and the other in Luke 3?
And what is the point of these detailed genealogies if Joseph was not
Jesus' father anyway?
5. Why does god use the word 'us' to describe himself in several
instances, such as gen 1:26, 11:7, etc?
6. Was man really made from silicon (dirt) and woman from calcium
(bone?). If so, how come they are essentially made from the same
things nowadays?
7. Which generation was Jesus talking about in Matthew 24:34?
8. Just what did the inscription on the cross say, since there is a
different description of it in each of the gospels. Are all of these
differing inscriptions inerrant?
"THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS" (Matthew)
"THE KING OF THE JEWS" (Mark)
"THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS" (Luke)
"JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS" (John)
9. If Jesus' "death" on the cross destroyed the devil, as Hebrews
suggests (Heb 2:14: "...he also himself likewise took part of the
same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of
death, that is, the devil.") why is he still alive and well today?
10. Why didn't Adam die "in the day" he ate of the tree of knowledge,
as God had predicted in Gen 2:17?
.

User: "David D."
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 12:38:57 PM

kathryn wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f14Sd.7308$VD5.6109@twister.socal.rr.com...

Budikka666 wrote:

I've frequently asked you questions from which you've run.

Either:

1. Prove it.

2. Repost them.

3. Admit you're lying.

It's your
trademark, so don't come whining that someone isn't doing your

work

for you.

Nobody knows what Mike's questions are. He doesn't even know.

I think Mike had some long, rambling paragraphs. I don't think he

had any

questions and this is probably why he cannot ask succint questions.

doesn't have any. He wanted to hear himself talk just like he

wants to

hear
himself talk, now.

Regards,
Jason

--

--------

Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!

You either have trouble reading or are particularily stupid. Some of

the

questions were reposted for you, I had no trouble understanding them.

Maybe

it's because you're too lazy to reread the original discussion.

Questions from Budikka...http://tinyurl.com/3oqnn

Really...it's not that difficult

1. The Bible claims the entire universe was created out of nothing
and the Earth created and populated in a period of six, literal 24
hour successive days. Are you saying this is true? If so, please
post your three best evidences supporting such a claim. If not,
please withdraw your claim that he Bible is inerrant.

2. Has everyone sinned or not? According to John 15:22, there were

least some people who had no sins until Jesus talked to them, and

from

that point on they were apparently awash in sin: "If I had not come
and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no

cloak

for their sin." But Paul, the inventor of christianity, said, "For
all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Ro 3:23). So
which is it?

3. How many people were at the tomb of Jesus when it was discovered
to be empty? Was it Miriam of Magdala and Miriam the mother of
Jacobus (according to Matthew), or was it Miriam of Magdala, an
unnamed israelite or Christian whose name became Joanna/Salome over
retellings, Miriam the mother of Jacobus, and a host of women
(according to Mark/Luke), or was it Miriam of Magdala alone

(according

to John)?

4. Why are there two different genealogies, different names,

different

lengths, given for Jesus, one in Matthew 1, and the other in Luke 3?
And what is the point of these detailed genealogies if Joseph was not
Jesus' father anyway?

5. Why does god use the word 'us' to describe himself in several
instances, such as gen 1:26, 11:7, etc?

6. Was man really made from silicon (dirt) and woman from calcium
(bone?). If so, how come they are essentially made from the same
things nowadays?

7. Which generation was Jesus talking about in Matthew 24:34?

8. Just what did the inscription on the cross say, since there is a
different description of it in each of the gospels. Are all of these
differing inscriptions inerrant?
"THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS" (Matthew)
"THE KING OF THE JEWS" (Mark)
"THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS" (Luke)
"JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS" (John)

9. If Jesus' "death" on the cross destroyed the devil, as Hebrews
suggests (Heb 2:14: "...he also himself likewise took part of the
same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of
death, that is, the devil.") why is he still alive and well today?

10. Why didn't Adam die "in the day" he ate of the tree of

knowledge,

as God had predicted in Gen 2:17?

Jason will claim you are question bombing and run. It's his standard
tactic to avoid questions. Best bet is pick one and go with it. Of
course be prepared for a frustrating discussion. logic is not oine of
Jason strong suits and it can get very frustrating working through his
mazes of contradictory explanations.
I notice he has taken his arrogance pills this weekend so my bet is no
questions will be answered since they are below him. It is clear his
tactic at the moment is to wind poeple up. So it's best to let him
stew in his own ego for a while.
Reality will hit him pretty quick, especially when his next rent check
arrives. Then he'll be off trying to generate more traffic to his
sponsors by posting more zoo pics. Of course maybe he has conned one
of his Christian flock to let him stay rent free in an apartment. It
really wouldn't surprise me.
.

User: "Jason Gastrich"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	21 Feb 2005 09:15:29 PM

kathryn wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f14Sd.7308$VD5.6109@twister.socal.rr.com...

Budikka666 wrote:

I've frequently asked you questions from which you've run.

Either:

1. Prove it.

2. Repost them.

3. Admit you're lying.

It's your
trademark, so don't come whining that someone isn't doing your work
for you.

Please avoid name-calling. This isn't a playground.
I'm talking about MIKE's questions. Not BUDIKKA's questions. You
apparently reposted some old questions from someone other than Mike. Do you
realize this?

Really...it's not that difficult

1. The Bible claims the entire universe was created out of nothing
and the Earth created and populated in a period of six, literal 24
hour successive days. Are you saying this is true? If so, please
post your three best evidences supporting such a claim. If not,
please withdraw your claim that he Bible is inerrant.

Yes.
1. The inerrancy of the verifiable scriptures
2. My personal relationship with the biblical God
3. Fulfilled prophecy

2. Has everyone sinned or not? According to John 15:22, there were at
least some people who had no sins until Jesus talked to them, and from
that point on they were apparently awash in sin: "If I had not come
and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak
for their sin." But Paul, the inventor of christianity, said, "For
all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Ro 3:23). So
which is it?

Even the Skeptic's Annotated Bible doesn't list this as an alleged error.
You've grossly misinterpreted John 15:22.
Here is Adam Clarke's comments on it:
But now they have no cloke for their sin�(margin: Or, excuse) They are
without excuse. See the note on John 9:41. Christ had done such works as
demonstrated him to be the Messiah�yet they rejected him: here lay their
sin; and this sin, and the punishment to which it exposed them, still
remain; for they still continue to reject the Lord that bought them.
Here is how the Living Bible paraphrases this verse:
"They would not be guilty if I had not come and spoken to them. But now they
have no excuse for their sin.

3. How many people were at the tomb of Jesus when it was discovered
to be empty? Was it Miriam of Magdala and Miriam the mother of
Jacobus (according to Matthew), or was it Miriam of Magdala, an
unnamed israelite or Christian whose name became Joanna/Salome over
retellings, Miriam the mother of Jacobus, and a host of women
(according to Mark/Luke), or was it Miriam of Magdala alone (according
to John)?

I've already answered this in another thread. Here it is again, though.
* John does not say that only one woman visited the tomb. John records Mary
Magdalene's visit to the tomb (in the dark).
* Matthew 28:1 reports that Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were visiting
the tomb at dawn.
* Mark reports that Mary Magdalene, the other Mary and Salome were visiting
the tomb while the sun was rising.
* Luke uses the word "they" and does not indicate who was visiting the tomb.
He only indicates who told the account to the disciples.
* These accounts do not contradict. First, there can be no argument from
silence. With this in mind, there are no conflicting stories, only separate
accounts. In order for a true conflict, one author would need to say that
one of the women listed, in one or more of the gospels, was not there.
* If we take these accounts literally and assume each author knew exactly
who was where at all times, then Mary Magdalene went to the tomb first.
Next, the other Mary joined her. Immediately thereafter, Salome joined
them. After this, they returned and told the disciples what had happened.
Citation: The Skeptic's Annotated Bible: Corrected and Explained,
http://skepticsannotatedbible.org

4. Why are there two different genealogies, different names, different
lengths, given for Jesus, one in Matthew 1, and the other in Luke 3?
And what is the point of these detailed genealogies if Joseph was not
Jesus' father anyway?

* Both of these lists contain some omissions. They don't contradict each
other, though.
* Luke reveals the genealogy of Mary. Matthew lists the genealogy of
Joseph.
Citation: The Skeptic's Annotated Bible: Corrected and Explained,
http://skepticsannotatedbible.org

5. Why does god use the word 'us' to describe himself in several
instances, such as gen 1:26, 11:7, etc?

He is referring to the trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the
Holy Spirit. They are one.

6. Was man really made from silicon (dirt) and woman from calcium
(bone?). If so, how come they are essentially made from the same
things nowadays?

Yes.
I don't know.

7. Which generation was Jesus talking about in Matthew 24:34?

I've answered this in another thread. Here it is again, though.
The Greek word for generation is "genea." Here is the definition from
Strong's:
From (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication an age
(the period or the persons):�age, generation, nation, time.
This is referring to the Church Age. We are currently in the Church Age.

8. Just what did the inscription on the cross say, since there is a
different description of it in each of the gospels. Are all of these
differing inscriptions inerrant?
"THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS" (Matthew)
"THE KING OF THE JEWS" (Mark)
"THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS" (Luke)
"JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS" (John)

* All of these accounts mention an inscription that was written in Latin,
Greek, and Hebrew. Mark and Luke record it saying "The King of the Jews."
Matthew records, "Jesus the King of the Jews." John records, "Jesus of
Nazareth, King of the Jews." These differences are negligible and are not
contradicting. A disagreement or contradiction would be one saying, "Jesus
of Lebanon, King of the Greeks." All of the gospels record similar and
congruent statements.
Citation: The Skeptic's Annotated Bible: Corrected and Explained,
http://skepticsannotatedbible.org

9. If Jesus' "death" on the cross destroyed the devil, as Hebrews
suggests (Heb 2:14: "...he also himself likewise took part of the
same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of
death, that is, the devil.") why is he still alive and well today?

This word "destroy" can be used figuratively.
Here is Adam Clarke's comments:
The children are partakers of flesh and blood�Since those children of God,
who have fallen and are to be redeemed, are human beings; in order to be
qualified to redeem them by suffering and dying in their stead, He himself
likewise took part of the same�he became incarnate; and thus he who was God
with God, became man with men. By the children here we are to understand,
not
only the disciples and all genuine Christians, as in verse 13, but also the
whole
human race; all Jews and all Gentiles; so John 11:51, 52: He prophesied that
Jesus should die for that nation; and not for that nation only, but also
that he
should gather together in one the CHILDREN of GOD that were scattered
abroad;
meaning, probably, all the Jews in every part of the earth. But collate this
with 1
John 2:2, where: the evangelist explains the former words: He is the
propitiation
for our sins, (the Jews), and not for ours only, but for the sins of the
WHOLE
WORLD. As the apostle was writing to the Hebrews only, he in general uses a
Jewish phraseology, pointing out to them their own privileges; and rarely
introduces the Gentiles, or what the Messiah has done for the other nations
of the
earth.
That through death�That by the merit of his own death, making atonement
for sin, and procuring the almighty energy of the Holy Spirit, he might
counterwork ��, or render useless and ineffectual, all the operations
of
him who had the power, ��, or influence, to bring death into the world;
so
that death, which was intended by him who was a murderer from the beginning
to
be the final ruin of mankind, becomes the instrument of their exaltation and
endless glory; and thus the death brought in by Satan is counterworked and
rendered ineffectual by the death of Christ.
Him that had the power of death�This is spoken in conformity to an
opinion prevalent among the Jews, that there was a certain fallen angel who
was
called �� malak hammaveth, the angel of death; i.e. one who had
the power of separating the soul from the body, when God decreed that the
person should die. There were two of these, according to some of the Jewish
writers: one was the angel of death to the Gentiles; the other, to the Jews.
Thus
Tob haarets, fol. 31: "There are two angels which preside over death: one is
over
those who die out of the land of Israel, and his name is Sammael; the other
is he
who presides over those who die in the land of Israel, and this is Gabriel."
Sammael is a common name for the devil among the Jews; and there is a
tradition
among them, delivered by the author of Pesikta rabbetha in Yalcut Simeoni,
par.
2, f. 56, that the angel of death should be destroyed by the Messiah! "Satan
said
to the holy blessed God: Lord of the world, show me the Messiah. The Lord
answered: Come and see him. And when he had seen him he was terrified, and
his countenance fell, and he said: Most certainly this is the Messiah who
shall
cast me and all the nations into hell, as it is written Isaiah 25:8, The
Lord shall
swallow up death for ever." This is a very remarkable saying, and the
apostle
shows that it is true, for the Messiah came to destroy him who had the power
of
death. Dr. Owen has made some collections on this head from other Jewish
writers which tend to illustrate this verse; they may he seen in his
comment, vol.
i., p. 456, 8vo. edition.

10. Why didn't Adam die "in the day" he ate of the tree of knowledge,
as God had predicted in Gen 2:17?

His death wasn't a physical death. It was a spiritual death. He was in
need of redemption after sinning against God.
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.

User: "David"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	21 Feb 2005 09:22:34 PM

Jason Gastrich wrote:

kathryn wrote:

< snip >

Please avoid name-calling. This isn't a playground.

When you refer to people as "evil," among other things, that's not
"name-calling?"
< snip >

Yes.

1. The inerrancy of the verifiable scriptures

Define "verifiable scriptures."

2. My personal relationship with the biblical God

Ah, yes, the jokes being told to you, the talks you have had (were you
planning on telling Dan what God sounds like in your "rematch,"
Jason?), the sponaneous healings so you don't have to wear glasses, and
the repairs on your car and your CD drive?
Of course, none of these things are verifiable and could easily be
viewed as self-serving - even dishonest - claims.

3. Fulfilled prophecy

Your examples of "fulfilled prophesy" have been shown to be false.
< snip the rest for later >
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	21 Feb 2005 09:46:48 PM

In our last episode
<1109042554.068381.29230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, David lumbered
into the room and mumbled:

Jason Gastrich wrote:

kathryn wrote:

< snip >

Please avoid name-calling. This isn't a playground.

When you refer to people as "evil," among other things, that's not
"name-calling?"

Of course not! Widdle Jasy is daddy god's favowite shugar pants.
Yes he is! Yes he is!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.

User: "Al Klein"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	23 Feb 2005 12:43:28 PM

On 21 Feb 2005 19:22:34 -0800, "David" <hdsienkiewicz@yahoo.com> said
in alt.atheism:

Your examples of "fulfilled prophesy" have been shown to be false.

ALL of Jason's claims have been shown to be either false or nonsense.
You expected something new? Silly boy!
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"Christianity has already had the chance to govern
the world according to its own ethical standards.
It was called the "Dark Ages".
- Bill, The Avender
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.

User: "David"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	25 Feb 2005 09:04:40 PM

Jason Gastrich wrote:

kathryn wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f14Sd.7308$VD5.6109@twister.socal.rr.com...

Budikka666 wrote:

I've frequently asked you questions from which you've run.

Either:

1. Prove it.

2. Repost them.

3. Admit you're lying.

It's your
trademark, so don't come whining that someone isn't doing your

work

for you.

< snip >

You either have trouble reading or are particularily stupid. Some

the questions were reposted for you, I had no trouble understanding
them. Maybe it's because you're too lazy to reread the original
discussion.

Questions from Budikka...http://tinyurl.com/3oqnn

Please avoid name-calling. This isn't a playground.

I'm talking about MIKE's questions. Not BUDIKKA's questions. You
apparently reposted some old questions from someone other than Mike.

Do you

realize this?

Here's the exchange again, from further up the thread:
Budikka666 wrote:

I've frequently asked you questions from which you've run.

To which Jason replied:

Either:
1. Prove it.
2. Repost them.
3. Admit you're lying.

Budikka made a comment about questions that BUDIKKA has asked and Jason
replied with his list of items as we see above.
In response, kathryn provided a URL, and Jason then backpedalled and
claimed he was referring to Mike's questions.
< snip >
So kathryn was right.
Carry on.
.

User: "David"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 05:41:07 PM

Jason Gastrich wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

I've frequently asked you questions from which you've run.

Either:

1. Prove it.

2. Repost them.

3. Admit you're lying.

It's your
trademark, so don't come whining that someone isn't doing your work
for you.

Nobody knows what Mike's questions are. He doesn't even know.

I think Mike had some long, rambling paragraphs. I don't think he

had any

questions and this is probably why he cannot ask succint questions.

Ah, ha!
We have an admission here, audience.
So the problem isn't that you didn't see the questions, it's that they
were contained in "long, rambling paragraphs" and were not "succint."
Is THAT the NEW claim, Jason?
Is this the beginning of some new excuses?
< snip >
.

User: "Jason Gastrich"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 11:47:16 AM

Incidentally, the unbelievers are using a peculiar MO, now. I'm here in
plain sight ready to answer ANY question under the Sun, so the only way they
can paint me in a bad light is to say I won't answer questions and that I
"run" from them.
Of course, I'm here. Of course, I'm asking for the questions. However,
nobody will post them.
Only if these people knew how silly they looked. Saying I'm "running" when
I'm in plain sight. Saying I'm "avoiding" when I'm asking for questions.
Haha.
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.

User: "Robibnikoff"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 12:07:23 PM

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com...

You are so full of ***** your eyes are turning brown. Everyone has seen you
repeatedly run away. You're clearly delusional if you think otherwise. All
is clearly documented. Apparently Google is definitely not YOUR friend.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.

User: "The Lamb of God"
Title: Turn to the Lord	20 Feb 2005 01:12:27 PM

http://www.bsotl.org/main.html
.

User: "lizzard woman"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 12:02:47 PM

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com...
| Incidentally, the unbelievers are using a peculiar MO, now. I'm here in
| plain sight ready to answer ANY question under the Sun, so the only way
they
| can paint me in a bad light is to say I won't answer questions and that I
| "run" from them.
Yeah? Why don't you answer McHugh's question about your post-resurrection
chronology that you promised to answer? He posted it on January 25, 2005.
I've reposted it several times and you have ignored it each time.
It is under the sun and you ran from it. There's a reason you did that. It
is one of several questions that undermine your "harmonization" of the four
gospel accounts.
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
"Easy -- he's the Right Reverend Admiral Jason Gastrich, BSc, MSc, DVM, ThD,
PhD, MD, JD, Esq, US Navy (Ret). If the bible happened to put things in the
wrong order, well, our boy the Doctor will just fix it right up there!" --
Rightshu (IIDB, 2004)
.

User: "Gregory A Greenman"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 03:32:08 PM

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Jason,
I'm not sure why you think it's funny to act in such a childish
manner, but since you insist that you'll answer questions that
are put to you, how about the questions I asked you three times
at:
http://tinyurl.com/42dyf
and then again at:
http://tinyurl.com/5kf2p
and yet again at:
http://tinyurl.com/3oevr
You'll note that in that third attempt to get you to answer my
questions, I put your name in the subject line (which ought to
have given you quite a thrill) and it was already going into
free.christians. Are there any other hoops I have to jump through
before you'll answer?
Now, for a fourth time, here are the questions:
Is it your belief that the evolution from Plecco to Plecostomus,
from Plecostomus to Plecco or both from a common ancestor may
have been observed? If so how long do you think it took and who
do you think may have made the observation?
Also:
Here's something you said in a prior post:
"I'm a firm believer in the evolution that we have observed. I'm
a sincere skeptic in the evolution that some people assume
happened."
http://tinyurl.com/5uv3u
From this, it sounds like you think that Plecco/Plecostomus
evolution may have been observed. Is that the case? And, if so,
how do you think the observation was made? Do you think that a
scientist put a Plecco in a fish tank, watched it for a few days
and then said "Aha! Just as I expected. The Plecco has just given
birth to a Plecostomus!"?
--
Greg
----
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
.

User: "Jason Gastrich"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 04:31:03 PM

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and demeaning things
from you to me. This has caused you to move lower on my priority list. I
will answer your questions now, though.

http://tinyurl.com/42dyf

and then again at:

http://tinyurl.com/5kf2p

and yet again at:

http://tinyurl.com/3oevr

You'll note that in that third attempt to get you to answer my
questions, I put your name in the subject line (which ought to
have given you quite a thrill) and it was already going into
free.christians. Are there any other hoops I have to jump through
before you'll answer?

Now, for a fourth time, here are the questions:

Is it your belief that the evolution from Plecco to Plecostomus,
from Plecostomus to Plecco or both from a common ancestor may
have been observed?

I don't know.

If so how long do you think it took and who
do you think may have made the observation?

Also:

Here's something you said in a prior post:

"I'm a firm believer in the evolution that we have observed. I'm
a sincere skeptic in the evolution that some people assume
happened."

http://tinyurl.com/5uv3u

From this, it sounds like you think that Plecco/Plecostomus
evolution may have been observed. Is that the case? And, if so,
how do you think the observation was made? Do you think that a
scientist put a Plecco in a fish tank, watched it for a few days
and then said "Aha! Just as I expected. The Plecco has just given
birth to a Plecostomus!"?

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I think I see
where you're going with this though, and it hardly authenticates microbe to
man evolution.
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.

User: "Jim07D5"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 05:54:59 PM

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and demeaning things
from you to me. This has caused you to move lower on my priority list. I
will answer your questions now, though.

I don't know.

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I think I see
where you're going with this though, and it hardly authenticates microbe to
man evolution.

Regards,
Jason

Jason, can you imagine any words on this page, or any words, pictures,
diagrams, etc. on any other page to which you could be directed, that
would authenticate, for you, microbe to man evolution? Or, for the
believer in evolution, that would disauthenticate it? The issue really
is: what brings people to believe those words? After all, in the
medium we are using, words, diagrams and pictures, are all that we
have.
But, can you imagine any words that would change your mind? I don't
expect those on either side of this can come up with any such words;
whether true or not. Try to think what they would be and who it would
take to utter them. I'd like to know.
Jim07D5
.

User: "Jason Gastrich"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 07:22:15 PM

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and demeaning
things from you to me. This has caused you to move lower on my
priority list. I will answer your questions now, though.

I don't know.

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I think I
see where you're going with this though, and it hardly authenticates
microbe to man evolution.

Regards,
Jason

Jason, can you imagine any words on this page, or any words, pictures,
diagrams, etc. on any other page to which you could be directed, that
would authenticate, for you, microbe to man evolution? Or, for the
believer in evolution, that would disauthenticate it? The issue really
is: what brings people to believe those words? After all, in the
medium we are using, words, diagrams and pictures, are all that we
have.

But, can you imagine any words that would change your mind? I don't
expect those on either side of this can come up with any such words;
whether true or not. Try to think what they would be and who it would
take to utter them. I'd like to know.
Jim07D5

Hi Jim,
Nice to meet you. Or have we met?
Please answer your question for me, then I'll consider answering it.
God bless,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.

User: "Jim07D5"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	20 Feb 2005 07:50:03 PM

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and demeaning
things from you to me. This has caused you to move lower on my
priority list. I will answer your questions now, though.

I don't know.

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I think I
see where you're going with this though, and it hardly authenticates
microbe to man evolution.

Regards,
Jason

Jason, can you imagine any words on this page, or any words, pictures,
diagrams, etc. on any other page to which you could be directed, that
would authenticate, for you, microbe to man evolution? Or, for the
believer in evolution, that would disauthenticate it? The issue really
is: what brings people to believe those words? After all, in the
medium we are using, words, diagrams and pictures, are all that we
have.

But, can you imagine any words that would change your mind? I don't
expect those on either side of this can come up with any such words;
whether true or not. Try to think what they would be and who it would
take to utter them. I'd like to know.
Jim07D5

Hi Jim,

Nice to meet you. Or have we met?

Only a few exchanges while you were a write in candidate.

Please answer your question for me, then I'll consider answering it.

To answer the question for you would be presumptive. But I can't
imagine any; that's my impression. You could change that impression.
Jim07D5
.

User: "Jason Gastrich"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	21 Feb 2005 06:26:21 PM

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and demeaning
things from you to me. This has caused you to move lower on my
priority list. I will answer your questions now, though.

I don't know.

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I think I
see where you're going with this though, and it hardly
authenticates microbe to man evolution.

Regards,
Jason

Jason, can you imagine any words on this page, or any words,
pictures, diagrams, etc. on any other page to which you could be
directed, that would authenticate, for you, microbe to man
evolution? Or, for the believer in evolution, that would
disauthenticate it? The issue really is: what brings people to
believe those words? After all, in the medium we are using, words,
diagrams and pictures, are all that we have.

But, can you imagine any words that would change your mind? I don't
expect those on either side of this can come up with any such words;
whether true or not. Try to think what they would be and who it
would take to utter them. I'd like to know.
Jim07D5

Hi Jim,

Nice to meet you. Or have we met?

Only a few exchanges while you were a write in candidate.

Please answer your question for me, then I'll consider answering it.

To answer the question for you would be presumptive. But I can't
imagine any; that's my impression. You could change that impression.

Jim07D5

Jim,
I'm not asking you to answer the question for me. I'm asking you to answer
the question as if it was directed toward you.
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.

User: "Jim07D5"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	21 Feb 2005 08:08:39 PM

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and demeaning
things from you to me. This has caused you to move lower on my
priority list. I will answer your questions now, though.

I don't know.

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I think I
see where you're going with this though, and it hardly
authenticates microbe to man evolution.

Regards,
Jason

Jason, can you imagine any words on this page, or any words,
pictures, diagrams, etc. on any other page to which you could be
directed, that would authenticate, for you, microbe to man
evolution? Or, for the believer in evolution, that would
disauthenticate it? The issue really is: what brings people to
believe those words? After all, in the medium we are using, words,
diagrams and pictures, are all that we have.

But, can you imagine any words that would change your mind? I don't
expect those on either side of this can come up with any such words;
whether true or not. Try to think what they would be and who it
would take to utter them. I'd like to know.
Jim07D5

Hi Jim,

Nice to meet you. Or have we met?

Only a few exchanges while you were a write in candidate.

Please answer your question for me, then I'll consider answering it.

To answer the question for you would be presumptive. But I can't
imagine any; that's my impression. You could change that impression.

Jim07D5

Jim,

I'm not asking you to answer the question for me. I'm asking you to answer
the question as if it was directed toward you.

Regards,
Jason

As I said, "I don't expect those on either side of this can come up
with any such words; whether true or not." That's my answer, and I
gave it at the start. You are invited to answer that way, or another
way, or not at all.
Jim07D5
.

User: "Jason Gastrich"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	21 Feb 2005 08:28:10 PM

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and
demeaning things from you to me. This has caused you to move
lower on my priority list. I will answer your questions now,
though.

http://tinyurl.com/42dyf

and then again at:

http://tinyurl.com/5kf2p

and yet again at:

http://tinyurl.com/3oevr

You'll note that in that third attempt to get you to answer my
questions, I put your name in the subject line (which ought to
have given you quite a thrill) and it was already going into
free.christians. Are there any other hoops I have to jump
through before you'll answer?

Now, for a fourth time, here are the questions:

Is it your belief that the evolution from Plecco to Plecostomus,
from Plecostomus to Plecco or both from a common ancestor may
have been observed?

I don't know.

If so how long do you think it took and who
do you think may have made the observation?

Also:

Here's something you said in a prior post:

"I'm a firm believer in the evolution that we have observed.
I'm a sincere skeptic in the evolution that some people assume
happened."

http://tinyurl.com/5uv3u

From this, it sounds like you think that Plecco/Plecostomus
evolution may have been observed. Is that the case? And, if so,
how do you think the observation was made? Do you think that a
scientist put a Plecco in a fish tank, watched it for a few days
and then said "Aha! Just as I expected. The Plecco has just
given birth to a Plecostomus!"?

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I
think I see where you're going with this though, and it hardly
authenticates microbe to man evolution.

Regards,
Jason

Jason, can you imagine any words on this page, or any words,
pictures, diagrams, etc. on any other page to which you could be
directed, that would authenticate, for you, microbe to man
evolution? Or, for the believer in evolution, that would
disauthenticate it? The issue really is: what brings people to
believe those words? After all, in the medium we are using,
words, diagrams and pictures, are all that we have.

But, can you imagine any words that would change your mind? I
don't expect those on either side of this can come up with any
such words; whether true or not. Try to think what they would be
and who it would take to utter them. I'd like to know.
Jim07D5

Hi Jim,

Nice to meet you. Or have we met?

Only a few exchanges while you were a write in candidate.

Please answer your question for me, then I'll consider answering
it.

To answer the question for you would be presumptive. But I can't
imagine any; that's my impression. You could change that impression.

Jim07D5

Jim,

I'm not asking you to answer the question for me. I'm asking you to
answer the question as if it was directed toward you.

Regards,
Jason

Jim,
There is a zero percent chance of my "deconversion." I've simply seen,
learned, and experienced far too much of God to ever deny Him.
God bless,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.

User: "Jim07D5"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	22 Feb 2005 12:16:05 AM

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and
demeaning things from you to me. This has caused you to move
lower on my priority list. I will answer your questions now,
though.

http://tinyurl.com/42dyf

and then again at:

http://tinyurl.com/5kf2p

and yet again at:

http://tinyurl.com/3oevr

You'll note that in that third attempt to get you to answer my
questions, I put your name in the subject line (which ought to
have given you quite a thrill) and it was already going into
free.christians. Are there any other hoops I have to jump
through before you'll answer?

Now, for a fourth time, here are the questions:

Is it your belief that the evolution from Plecco to Plecostomus,
from Plecostomus to Plecco or both from a common ancestor may
have been observed?

I don't know.

If so how long do you think it took and who
do you think may have made the observation?

Also:

Here's something you said in a prior post:

"I'm a firm believer in the evolution that we have observed.
I'm a sincere skeptic in the evolution that some people assume
happened."

http://tinyurl.com/5uv3u

From this, it sounds like you think that Plecco/Plecostomus
evolution may have been observed. Is that the case? And, if so,
how do you think the observation was made? Do you think that a
scientist put a Plecco in a fish tank, watched it for a few days
and then said "Aha! Just as I expected. The Plecco has just
given birth to a Plecostomus!"?

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I
think I see where you're going with this though, and it hardly
authenticates microbe to man evolution.

Regards,
Jason

Jason, can you imagine any words on this page, or any words,
pictures, diagrams, etc. on any other page to which you could be
directed, that would authenticate, for you, microbe to man
evolution? Or, for the believer in evolution, that would
disauthenticate it? The issue really is: what brings people to
believe those words? After all, in the medium we are using,
words, diagrams and pictures, are all that we have.

But, can you imagine any words that would change your mind? I
don't expect those on either side of this can come up with any
such words; whether true or not. Try to think what they would be
and who it would take to utter them. I'd like to know.
Jim07D5

Hi Jim,

Nice to meet you. Or have we met?

Only a few exchanges while you were a write in candidate.

Please answer your question for me, then I'll consider answering
it.

To answer the question for you would be presumptive. But I can't
imagine any; that's my impression. You could change that impression.

Jim07D5

Jim,

I'm not asking you to answer the question for me. I'm asking you to
answer the question as if it was directed toward you.

Regards,
Jason

Jim,

There is a zero percent chance of my "deconversion." I've simply seen,
learned, and experienced far too much of God to ever deny Him.

I would like to ask you, then to describe your motivation in such
posts as this, of yours, quoted from above:

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I
think I see where you're going with this though, and it hardly
authenticates microbe to man evolution.

....since it appears that *nothing* would authenticate for you,
anything that would "deconvert" you.
I also want to point out, and get your response to the fact, that
there are many theists who believe that God used the mechanism of
biological evolution to arrive at the human biological form. Would
your having such a believe require that you "deny" God? It seems so,
but I want to check in case I have it wrong.
Please take note of the fact that I am not disparaging your position.
I want to understand why it is that there are theists to whom
biological evolution stands as a challenge to their belief in deity.
What is so compelling and necessary to your faith, about direct
creation of all species? But you are free to cut this off if you want.
Jim07D5
.

User: "Jim07D5"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	22 Feb 2005 11:24:12 PM

Jason, did you miss this?
Jim07D5 <Jim07D5@nospam.net> said:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and
demeaning things from you to me. This has caused you to move
lower on my priority list. I will answer your questions now,
though.

http://tinyurl.com/42dyf

and then again at:

http://tinyurl.com/5kf2p

and yet again at:

http://tinyurl.com/3oevr

You'll note that in that third attempt to get you to answer my
questions, I put your name in the subject line (which ought to
have given you quite a thrill) and it was already going into
free.christians. Are there any other hoops I have to jump
through before you'll answer?

Now, for a fourth time, here are the questions:

Is it your belief that the evolution from Plecco to Plecostomus,
from Plecostomus to Plecco or both from a common ancestor may
have been observed?

I don't know.

If so how long do you think it took and who
do you think may have made the observation?

Also:

Here's something you said in a prior post:

"I'm a firm believer in the evolution that we have observed.
I'm a sincere skeptic in the evolution that some people assume
happened."

http://tinyurl.com/5uv3u

From this, it sounds like you think that Plecco/Plecostomus
evolution may have been observed. Is that the case? And, if so,
how do you think the observation was made? Do you think that a
scientist put a Plecco in a fish tank, watched it for a few days
and then said "Aha! Just as I expected. The Plecco has just
given birth to a Plecostomus!"?

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I
think I see where you're going with this though, and it hardly
authenticates microbe to man evolution.

Regards,
Jason

Jason, can you imagine any words on this page, or any words,
pictures, diagrams, etc. on any other page to which you could be
directed, that would authenticate, for you, microbe to man
evolution? Or, for the believer in evolution, that would
disauthenticate it? The issue really is: what brings people to
believe those words? After all, in the medium we are using,
words, diagrams and pictures, are all that we have.

But, can you imagine any words that would change your mind? I
don't expect those on either side of this can come up with any
such words; whether true or not. Try to think what they would be
and who it would take to utter them. I'd like to know.
Jim07D5

Hi Jim,

Nice to meet you. Or have we met?

Only a few exchanges while you were a write in candidate.

Please answer your question for me, then I'll consider answering
it.

To answer the question for you would be presumptive. But I can't
imagine any; that's my impression. You could change that impression.

Jim07D5

Jim,

I'm not asking you to answer the question for me. I'm asking you to
answer the question as if it was directed toward you.

Regards,
Jason

Jim,

There is a zero percent chance of my "deconversion." I've simply seen,
learned, and experienced far too much of God to ever deny Him.

I would like to ask you, then to describe your motivation in such
posts as this, of yours, quoted from above:

I sincerely don't know if this has been observed or not. I
think I see where you're going with this though, and it hardly
authenticates microbe to man evolution.

...since it appears that *nothing* would authenticate for you,
anything that would "deconvert" you.

I also want to point out, and get your response to the fact, that
there are many theists who believe that God used the mechanism of
biological evolution to arrive at the human biological form. Would
your having such a believe require that you "deny" God? It seems so,
but I want to check in case I have it wrong.

Please take note of the fact that I am not disparaging your position.
I want to understand why it is that there are theists to whom
biological evolution stands as a challenge to their belief in deity.
What is so compelling and necessary to your faith, about direct
creation of all species? But you are free to cut this off if you want.
Jim07D5

Jim07D5
.

User: "Jason Gastrich"
Title: Re: Someone Help Mike Painter	23 Feb 2005 02:09:05 AM

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Jim07D5 wrote:

"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:

In article <E24Sd.7309$VD5.6390@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...

Sure, Greg. In your case, I have read some insulting and
demeaning things from you to me. This has caused you to move
lower on my priority list. I will answer your questions now,
though.

http://tinyurl.com/42dyf

and then again at:

http://tinyurl.com/5kf2p

and yet again at:

http://tinyurl.com/3oevr

You'll note that in that third attempt to get you to answer my
questions, I put your name in the subject line (which ought to
have given you quite a thrill) and it was already going into
free.christians. Are there any other hoops I have to jump
through before you'll answer?

Now, for a fourth time, here are the questions:

Is it your belief that the evolution from Plecco to
Plecostomus, from Plecostomus to Plecco or both from a common
ancestor may have been observed?

I don't know.